'Quo vadis?' Claims about Jesus' tomb

[Nina]

Kyrie Eleison!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17345429/?GT1=9033

[Herman Blaydoe]

I think it is very sad about what passes for scholarship these days.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

I think it is very sad about what passes for scholarship these days.

Just like clockwork without fail such stories seem to be appear at this time of the year, only to disappear from the public eye in a few months. It's almost like the secular version of the liturgical cycle.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[John Charmley]

Oh well, that's it then folks, better pack up and go home. Tell Matthew to cancel the site, Pope B. should sell off the Vatican, and Archbishop Williams can stop trying to hold his Church together, and the Monks on Athos can let the women in and put the sledge-hammers away; shame about those gay bishops, they look even more wrong than before.

Where would we be without the T.V. to put us right after 2000 years of all these Holy men and women sacrificing everything for their Lord? Just think, if only the maker of the Titanic had been around earlier.

Of course, I guess this might just be another sensationalist programme of the sort that Fr. Raphael mentioned? But surely not? Can T.V. be wrong? Maybe some maverick can write a book saying T.V. got it all wrong these last 70 years, and that Bruce Springsteen was right all along - 57 channels and nothing on - that would be sensational.

OK, better not cancel the site - stop that first paragraph!

In Christ,

John

p.s. for those suffering from the fast, this is an example of English irony, it should be read with a Herman disclaimer.

[Rebecca Gabl]

Yeah, like there weren't other people named Jesus! I found the tomb of George. It must be George Washington!

John, whom do you suggest we worship? ;)
P.S. Fr. Raphael's "secular liturgical cycle" made me almost laugh out loud as well. What will they make up next?

[Paul Cowan]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17345429/?GT1=9033

LMAO

Staticians? He is basing his proof on staticians?

LMAO more.

[Nina]

Yes Father Raphael!

It is so weird... Why do this stories have to be out exactly when we have started our journey of Lent?

I would like to share this story from Elder Paisios of Mount Athos:

"Father Paisios told me an incident from his childhood years: “When I was a child and my soul was still pure, I loved Christ very much. I used to walk in the woods carrying a cross in my hands, chanting and praying and wishing to become a monk. My parents told me that I should first grow up and then leave to go to the monastery. One day, as I was taking my usual walk in the woods, I met a fellow villager. When he saw me carrying the cross, he asked me:


- What is this?
- The Cross of our Christ, I replied.
Since he did not have any positive thoughts in his mind, he said to me:
- Arsenios, you are silly. You don’t mean to say that you believe in God. He does not exist. These religious stories are made up by some priests. We have evolved from the monkey. Christ was simply a man like all of us.


When he finished, he got up and left. His twisted thoughts filled my innocent soul with black heavy clouds. Being alone in the woods, I began to think that maybe God does not exist. As I was feeling confused, desperate and extremely sad, I asked Christ to give me an indication of His existence, so I could believe in Him. But He did not respond.


Feeling exhausted, I lay on the ground to rest. Suddenly, a positive thought, full of responsive gratefulness, entered my innocent soul:
- Hold on for a second! Wasn’t Christ the kindest man ever on earth? No one has ever found anything evil in Him. So, whether He is God or not, I don’t care. Based on the fact that He is the kindest man on earth and I haven’t known anyone better, I will try to become like Him and absolutely obey everything the Gospel says. I will even give my life for Him, if needed, since He is so kind.


All my thoughts of disbelief disappeared and my soul was filled with immense joy. The power of my grateful thought dissolved all the ambiguous ones. When I started believing in Christ and decided to love Him as much as I could, solely out of responsive gratefulness, I experienced a miracle which firmly sealed my grateful thought. Then, I thought: I do not care anymore if someone tells me that God does not exist!”


As the story of the Elder regarding his grateful thought did not completely satisfy me, I asked him with a certain curiosity to tell me about the miracle he experienced in the woods. Father Paisios was found in a difficult situation and replied that he could not tell me about it. This way, he indicated that I, too, should not look for miracles, but rather trust my feeling of responsive gratefulness, as it is the key which opens the door to every good.
Later on, Father Paisios told me that he had seen the Lord.

“The righteous Christian does not practice good acts for his own benefit, i.e. in order to be rewarded or to avoid hell and gain paradise, but rather because he prefers good to evil. Everything else is a natural consequence of the good that fills our soul without having asked for it. This way, good has dignity; otherwise, it originates from the cheap attitude of “give and take.”"

[Kosta]

I think the following article by the man who actually oversaw the excavations should put this nonsense to rest.


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1171894508893&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Andreas Moran]

No doubt this guy, like J K Rowling and Dan Brown, makes a lot of money. The devil looks after his own.

[John Charmley]

No doubt this guy, like J K Rowling and Dan Brown, makes a lot of money. The devil looks after his own.

Dear Andreas,

Well, as some wise person once said, 'you can see what God thinks of money by looking at those to whom he gives it.'

In Christ,

John

[Andreas Moran]

Though I think, John, that was Martin Luther!

[Rick H.]

Either Martin Luther or Dorthy Parker, one of the two . . . there must be something in the water these past two days. Even the guys who wear bow ties have me laughing out loud.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Yeah, like there weren't other people named Jesus! I found the tomb of George. It must be George Washington!

John, whom do you suggest we worship? ;)
P.S. Fr. Raphael's "secular liturgical cycle" made me almost laugh out loud as well. What will they make up next?

That's funny Rebecca. I was thinking the exact same thing. When James Cameron made his news statement with 'proof' about the ossuary of Jesus I thought: "if yesterday in our local paper there was an obituary that a local James Cameron had died, according to his logic this would be 'proof' that the Hollywood James Cameron is dead."

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Rebecca Gabl]

That name sounds familiar...is he a movie director? I'm sure there will be big money in the dramatic reenactment of the debunking of the "Christian myth!"

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

That name sounds familiar...is he a movie director? I'm sure there will be big money in the dramatic reenactment of the debunking of the "Christian myth!"

Yes, he's a well known movie director & is the spokesman or coordinator for this story.

I'm not sure if there's a subliminal message in the fact that his most famous movie is Titantic

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Mary]

Either Martin Luther or Dorthy Parker, one of the two . . . there must be something in the water these past two days. Even the guys who wear bow ties have me laughing out loud.

LOL. So true. Add to the guys in bow ties, just about everyone else that I seem to be encountering online these days - there's so much to laugh about every day!

Perhaps it's the 'joy of Lent' that we were reminded of at the start of our journey and we're being blessed with it because we're all fasting in truth!

Isn't that wonderful, without even puzzling it all out, we have found it! =)

Mary.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Even the guys who wear bow ties have me laughing out loud.

I protest in the strongest possible terms that it is assumed everyone in the UK wears bow ties.

(The fact that I routinely do should not prejudice my point...) :)

INXC, Matthew

[John Charmley]

What I want to know if how does Rick know?

(The fact that I have a collection of them is, of course, irrelevant to this discussion).

At this rate we're going to need a thread on bow ties and Orthodoxy; well, at least it makes a change from the (I think) Seinfeld character who liked Orthodoxy because of 'the hats'.

Perhaps Mr. Cameron should get on to this - bow ties, Orthodoxy, clearly a secret society run by men with beards who recruit to their sinister 'Monachos' organisation via an Oxford don with American connections (clearly CIA); a case for Inspector Morse, perhaps, should Mr. Cameron go to Oxford! HBO and the BBC should be notified. Herman is clearly ideal for the role of the detective whose sharp intellect is concealed beneath a declared simplicity: I'll leave it to the rest of you to suggest other roles for Mr. Cameron's rival to the Da Vinci Code.

INXC

John

[Father David Moser]

Perhaps Mr. Cameron should get on to this - bow ties, Orthodoxy, clearly a secret society run by men with beards

Yes, yes, I can see it now - the truth is plain to me! A secret society called "Men In Bowties" (MIB for short) run by the Men In Black (riassas). Perhaps we could make a film and get a couple of big names to play members of this secret society whose task it is to control the otherworldly - maybe, Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith?

Fr David Moser

PS - I see that the usual Lenten off beat humor is in full swing already.

[Rick H.]

What I want to know if how does Rick know?

(The fact that I have a collection of them is, of course, irrelevant to this discussion).

At this rate we're going to need a thread on bow ties and Orthodoxy; well, at least it makes a change from the (I think) Seinfeld character who liked Orthodoxy because of 'the hats'.

Perhaps Mr. Cameron should get on to this - bow ties, Orthodoxy, clearly a secret society run by men with beards who recruit to their sinister 'Monachos' organisation via an Oxford don with American connections (clearly CIA); a case for Inspector Morse, perhaps, should Mr. Cameron go to Oxford! HBO and the BBC should be notified. Herman is clearly ideal for the role of the detective whose sharp intellect is concealed beneath a declared simplicity: I'll leave it to the rest of you to suggest other roles for Mr. Cameron's rival to the Da Vinci Code.

INXC

John


John, to be very honest with you, I know about the bow ties not because I have been to England, but because I used to live in Missouri also. And, I can share with you that since you have moved from Missouri, your legend has only continued to grow. Tales of you and your bow tie collection and your big axe and your blue ox named ''Babe" are told regularly still to this day. In fact, the last time I went back to Poplar Bluff on a turkey hunting trip, they were still telling tales about your adventures in the Ozarks. Probably, as you remember, they actually have you confused with Paul Bunyan, with the hair and beard and everything, but I gave up trying to tell them that Paul Bunyan didn't wear bow ties and round glasses--you know how they can be--so I just go along with it now. But, this is how I know about the bow ties. This, and the fact that while my internet research abilities are not legendary, I have developed the ability to get around university websites pretty well over the years :)

And, yes, you were correct with the reference to George Castanza from Seinfeld. It is funny because when I told my dad that I had become Orthodox, I think he was trying to take the mickey out of me and he referenced this Seinfeld episode, and asked me if I was going to get to wear the hats. Yes, George liked the hats.

Well all things considered, I think it is safe to say that it is now officially time for a break (or possibly as some are now thinking, a break is long overdue).

[Katherine]

Yes, saw this yesterday morning on MSNBC news at 4am (Sydney time) ... I know, what was I doing up at that hour of the morning!?

Nevertheless, I kind of laughed ... and then thought, if Jesus had a son, as IF he'd name him Judas, after his "best" friend??? Come on ...

[Nina]

Yes, saw this yesterday morning on MSNBC news at 4am (Sydney time) ... I know, what was I doing up at that hour of the morning!?

Nevertheless, I kind of laughed ... and then thought, if Jesus had a son, as IF he'd name him Judas, after his "best" friend??? Come on ...

Yes Katherine, their argument does not make sense at all.

Additionally, a true scholar and authoritative research deals with all the aspects of a new discovery. Usually, for the distant past, the first field of study to consult for a better understanding of cultural history, is linguistics/philology.

As we know, the Apostle in one of his letters urges the early Christians to be 'sons of light'. This may have been the standard speech of the Early Church; and 'a son of Jesus' in my opinion is not characterizing a biological relation to Christ, but a spiritual connection, serving thus as an expression of belonging to Christ.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

The following appeared as a commentary on last night's The National, which is Canada's nightly hour long news program. The commentator is Rex Murphy who is something of a national institution in his own right.


So much for the incarnation

Feb. 27, 2007

Hollywood is an inverted religion.

Like most, I watched bits and pieces of that great orgy of idolatry and self-worship, the Academy Awards.

What we call superstars are the gods and goddesses of our decadent time. Their church, fame, luxury, and immense, obscene wealth.

Al Gore was called in as the pastor of a more austere calling, environmentalism. "An Inconvenient Truth" was given an Oscar to show that Hollywood can take a spell from narcissism and ally itself with something a little more substantial than insane self-obsession.

Al Gore is Hollywood's carbon pope.

We may not need popes much longer. The awards were barely over when one of the titans of big film, no less than James Cameron, he of the bloated budgets and blockbusters "Terminator" and "Titanic," two milestones in the history of Western Art, announces that he's about to release a documentary that will expose the last 2,000 years of Christianity as a feeble sham, explode the central mystery of the Christian faith, the resurrection, and while he's at it, prove even beyond the diligence of Dan Brown — book sales be upon him — that Jesus Christ was married to Mary Magdalene, died a natural death, and was buried with Mary to boot.

So much for the incarnation.

James, you see, has gone to an oldish story.

There's this tomb, see. Cue Angelina Jolie. And having watched enough "CSI" to bring himself up to speed, has gone all David Caruso on the bones, done the DNA, and, hey, presto, the central faith of the Western World, 2,000 years of belief and scholarship beyond even the reach of Céline Dion has, may I say it, hit an iceberg.

The world is wrong. Hollywood producer, archaeologist, Academy Award winner, king of the world James Cameron has unlocked the greatest mystery in the history of the world. Better than Geraldo at Al Capone's vault.

I expect the Vatican to apologize and close its doors within a week.

Haul down Notre Dame, board up Westminster, give over all the cathedrals and churches to Starbucks.

It was all a scam. If what Jim has on film is true — and he's a formidable ecclesiologist — Christianity is for dupes.

I have one or two minor questions... Do you think we'll see any documentaries of like attempt and equal impertinence from James Cameron on Muhammad or Islam?

To ask the question is to answer it. Hollywood is only daring with Christianity, and why does Hollywood, which worships only itself and money, feel so blithely free to mock, degrade, toy with, and abuse the sacred story of billions of people and offer to Gospels no more respect than they would the script for "Showgirls?"

Probably the answer to that question is that the minds which produced "Showgirls" are so radically vulgar and stimulated at core only by greed and the lust for cheap fame. That frame of mind will prostitute anything... the life of Christ, other people's religion for a stale press conference and a fresh buck.

It's that simple. It also explains Al Gore's Oscar. Having toppled one messiah, Hollywood wanted a more pliable one in the wings. For "The National," I'm Rex Murphy.

[Kosta]

The following appeared as a commentary on last night's The National, which is Canada's nightly hour long news program. The commentator is Rex Murphy who is something of a national institution in his own right.

Excellent, thank you for posting that.

[Nina]

Why do you seek the living one among the dead? Some remarks on "The Lost Tomb of Jesus"

From Rev. Eugen J. Pentiuc, PhD, ThD

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article9609.asp

[John Charmley]

Dear Nina,

Excellent quotation.

But isn't it interesting that even in our atheistic media stories about Our Lord 'sell'; what, I wonder, might that be telling us?

No matter how much the atheistic commentators decry Christianity, time and again they come back to it. I doubt the ability of such programmes to have much effect on anyone who believes, but do wonder how many might, on investigating whether there is anything to such theories, be drawn closer to the Truth?

As they used to say in another TV programme - the Truth is out there - or, to be specific, in the Church.


In Christ,

John

[Nina]

History has proved that blasphemy and sacrilege are often considered art, but since when squandering and wasting food is considered art?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11669242?GT1=9145

[Paul Cowan]

That's alot of chocolate. I wonder if if it is solid or hollow?

Since when has sensationalism stopped people from being sacriligious or blasphemous? Every evil thing seems to come to a head during Holy Week.

How ticked off the deceiver must be right now that he has to stoop so low to get us to get angry and lose our Joy. I would never assume to "play" with the Devil, but let's all agree to tick him off a little more and continue to pray more fervently this next Week and beyond. And pray for the artist.

Paul

[Mary]

History has proved that blasphemy and sacrilege are often considered art, but since when squandering and wasting food is considered art?



Speaking of wasting food - making things 'cute' is a good way. They had an easter egg hunt in our mobile home community today. My son got a cute chocolate bunny about 8" tall. He thought that was exactly what he wanted - until he tried to eat it. It looked quite morbid, a cute little bunny with bites taken out of its ears. He couldn't take more than two bites. He was almost in tears, and wanted to throw it away. I told him he could chop it up into little bits and then it won't look like a bunny anymore, and he said, "But one of the pieces will be its eyes..."

The other canibalistic thing I saw was at a 9 yr old's birthday party. Her icecream cake had a picture of her on it. I wondered how the lady who cut it up, could cut up the face of a little girl... I know, I know, it was just fancy icing, but it was scary.

I haven't yet gotten bored of food that looks like food =)

[John Charmley]

Dear Mary, Paul and Nina,

It is a trifle difficult to believe the gallery's claim that it was entirely accidental that this should have happened at Easter - especially when the exhibition was for Easter! That would be the heathen feast of Eostre which is annually celebrated in that part of America, would it?

The contrast between the abandon with which 'artists' insult Christianity and the caution with which they tip-toe around Islam would be amusing if it were not also offensive. How chic, how cool; the threat of a Jihad from some Islamic fundamentalist is enough to ensure that 'artistic freedom' does not offend Muslims; that no Christian would issue such threats ensures that our faith is open to offensive comments masquerading as ' artistic freedom'.

Perhaps it is because he gets so desperate at this time of the year that Satan has recourse to such poor tools in an attempt to stir up unChristian feelings in our breasts. I feel only sorrow and pity for such 'artists', who resemble nothing more than the naughty child hoping to be noticed by behaving in an offensive manner. If we stopped noticing, they would have no raison d'etre.

In Christ,

John

[Nina]

Dear Mary, Paul and Nina,

It is a trifle difficult to believe the gallery's claim that it was entirely accidental that this should have happened at Easter - especially when the exhibition was for Easter! That would be the heathen feast of Eostre which is annually celebrated in that part of America, would it?

I also do not believe that the exhibition is an innocent coincidence. I am so happy thought to read about the overwhelming response of the Catholic Christians (mainly), against the exhibition.


The contrast between the abandon with which 'artists' insult Christianity and the caution with which they tip-toe around Islam would be amusing if it were not also offensive. How chic, how cool; the threat of a Jihad from some Islamic fundamentalist is enough to ensure that 'artistic freedom' does not offend Muslims; that no Christian would issue such threats ensures that our faith is open to offensive comments masquerading as ' artistic freedom'.

I couldn't agree more with you John. Also it is interesting how secular Christian artists and writers (the artist is Italian) allow themselves such artistic freedom. Maybe they are atheists and only in name Christian.


Perhaps it is because he gets so desperate at this time of the year that Satan has recourse to such poor tools in an attempt to stir up unChristian feelings in our breasts. I feel only sorrow and pity for such 'artists', who resemble nothing more than the naughty child hoping to be noticed by behaving in an offensive manner. If we stopped noticing, they would have no raison d'etre.

In Christ,

John

Yes you are right but I think being outspoken in such cases is crucial. Again the Christians that responded made the gallery consider everything. If all ignored this, we could have had chocolates in that shape being sold for Easter. It already has a seemingly innocent, "fun" name.

Also how can we keep silence when our God is represented without the usual cloth?!!! It is only respectful to have the loincloth included with all images of Crucified Christ! I can't believe the lack of respect for God (I -at least- feel very offended)! Also Saint Cosmas Aitolos has said something like: "If they kill me, my family, burn my house etc. I have the duty as a Christian to forgive and pray for them. However if they offend my Christ, Panaghia, my Church and Orthodoxy I have a duty to be outspoken." And truly because he was a fervent protector of Orthodoxy he was martyred.