Permanent deacons?

[Chris Siefkas]

Hi:

I am curious whether there are any "permanent" deacons who subscribe to Monachos? The topic of the permanent diaconate came up in a discussion between our parish priest and myself and I'd be interested in other perpectives on this office.

Thanks

Chris

[Father David Moser]

Hi:

I am curious whether there are any "permanent" deacons who subscribe to Monachos?

Well, I'm not a "permanent deacon" anymore - but I was a deacon for 7 years with every intent of being "permanent". In one sense, all deacons are permanent and conversely no deacon is permanent. When a person is ordained to the diaconate, there is no "guarantee" that they will also be ordained to he priesthood - otoh, when a person is ordained to the diaconate, there is no "guarantee" that they will not also be ordained to the priesthood.

I do understand, however, that there is a bit of a different approach when you consider those who were "deacon for a day" enroute to the priesthood and those who were or are deacons for a prolonged period of time.

Fr David Moser

[Robert Hegwood]

I've heard that at least in North America we need more long term deacons. I don't know if this is true, but it seems to be. And if there is a need it is one of those things I think that I might be willing to persue if ever I were invited to do so...but having no such invitation and having no ring on my finger it is not likely I will ever find hands on my head. And short of a rather clear invitation it is not something that would feel remotely comfortable promoting myself for. From what I've been taught, as a rule the call comes throught he church somehow...from a priest, or bishop perhaps. And often those who received such calls...especially to episcopal office tried very hard to get out of it until it was clear this was the path God had chosen for them. There was a time early in my convert life I wondered if I should ever consider the priesthood, but the more I read about the priesthood the scarier it seemed, and the more dangerous given my own profound unworthiness. But while notions of priesthood left me long ago, the idea of being a deacon reoccurs from time to time. But as I said...no invitations so most likely it is just a fond sentiment that is better off being ignored...and even if asked to undertake such a life...becoming a student again at my age and finding work....ahhh...that would be a small miracle.

[Alex Haig]

A couple of points:

Firstly, we are short of priests in 'western' countries - if there is a candidate suitable to be ordained then often it is decided that he should be made a priest because we're desperate for them to serve the Liturgy etc.

Secondly, I am uncomfortable with someone saying either he would like to be ordained or that he doesn't want to be: it's not really up to him. In the ordination service the Bishop does not ask if the candidate wants to be ordained, he just ordains him. Actually, it looks like he is being forced into it - two sub-deacons grab him, force him to prostrate a few times, he spends what seems an eternity having to hold a bowl full of water, then he is escorted around the altarthree times, the Bishop ordains him, then dresses him. In the Orthodox understanding, someone is ordained in obedience to the Church, not his own desire. No one is worthy of ordination, yet through God's mercy we are able to replenish the ranks of the clergy.

With love in Christ

Alex

[Chris Siefkas]

Robert:

I think the OCA actually has a "late vocations" program for men interested in becoming "permanent" Deacons. I know of a man in Northern California who went through it and is now a deacon in a church in Sacramento. All that being said, Alex makes a good point about "wanting" to be ordained. In my case it's something my priest brought up and we have begun to discuss but no final decisions have been made.

Chris

[Robert Hegwood]

I would be inclined to agree with Alex too. The OCA may well have late vocations programs...but as yet I've recieved no intimations or invitations to even consider such a thing...it is just a recurring thought if it came I could be open to it. Seeking an ordiation is not something that strikes me as remotely appropriate, at least for me. If it is something God wants He can prompt the right people to ask the right questions. But if would be nice is someone in our parish got tapped to become a deacon.