Question from the Philokalia

[Elzabet]

Knowing that it is considered "advanced reading" I am currently reading the Philokalia. I am on Volume 2 and just recently completed 'A Century of Spiritual Texts' by St. Theodorus the Great Ascetic. I have a question about one of the paragraphs.

#72 reads:

The adversary of our life, the devil, employs many devices to make our sins seem small to us. Often he cloaks them with forgetfulness, so that after suffering a little on their account, we no longer trouble to lament over them. But, my brethren, let us not forget our offences, even if we wrongly think that they have been forgiven through repentance; let us always remember our sinful acts and never cease to mourn over them, so that we may acquire humility as our constant companion and thus escape the snares of self-esteem and pride.The Philokalia, vol2, p29, paragraph 72; all emphasis mine

This was a bit of a roadblock for me. Are our sins forgiven when we repent of them or not? My understanding of 1 John 1:9 is "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

How did I get lost here? Any clues for the clueless would be appreciated. Thank you!

[Robert Hegwood]

As I understand it, which may be wrong, there is a fine line here....the core idea is to nourish and preserve humility. We leave the forgiving to God and use our failings to remind us that we are unprofitable servants though He is gracious. That is to say we hold oursleves accountable for our failures but that doesn't mean God necessarily does. The line here is not to become an "accuser" of ourselves the way our enemy does. For us it is sufficient that in knowing what we have done we know what we are capable of...and knowing what we are capable of we see how far removed we are yet from holiness. If God wishes us to forget certian things then let Him hide the memory, that which He does not hide spurs us to repentance. The knowledge of our own condition moves us to sorrow for and be merciful towards the failings of our neighbor, and in pouring out our souls for our neighbor we come to love, and coming to love we have found Him whom our soul seeks.

[Father Serafim]

I would like to add that even although we are forgiven, we carry the scars of our sins and thereby maintain a spirit of repentance, which is essential for salvation. We should not be pessimistic but nevertheless 'anxious' that we are really drawing closer to Christ as we make our spiritual journey. I believe this is supported by Fr Sophrony's last book - We shall see Him as He is.

[John Charmley]

Dear Elzabet,

No, I doubt that you have gone wrong here. What Robert says is correct.

As you indicate, we have His warrant that our sins are forgiven - but He knows us well, and if we forget our sins then how easily we return to them, even as the dog does to his vomit. So, in humility, we recall what we did, and pray for strength not to do it again.

The following from Pope Shenouda III seems useful here:


Some say that the Lord gave us His blood for salvation and forgiveness, and so what is the need for repentance? Isn't the blood of Jesus enough? We answer them saying: Repentance is what transfers the merits of the blood of Christ in forgiveness. Salvation is presented to everyone, and the blood of Christ is sufficient for all, but only the repentants can receive it. Truly, the blood of Christ: ‘purifies us from every sin’. But it only purifies the sins from which we repent. The apostle stressed two conditions for this purity to occur, and they are:
“if we walk in the light” (1 John 1:7), and also “if we confess our sins” (1 John 1:9).

In Christ,

John

[Elzabet]

Thank you all.

So basically he's saying we should not forget our sins but continue in a spirit of repentance and humility? Is that correct?

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

I would like to add that even although we are forgiven, we carry the scars of our sins and thereby maintain a spirit of repentance, which is essential for salvation. We should not be pessimistic but nevertheless 'anxious' that we are really drawing closer to Christ as we make our spiritual journey. I believe this is supported by Fr Sophrony's last book - We shall see Him as He is.

This is also what St Nikodemos the Agiorite says in his A Manual of Confession (Exomologetarion).

We must remember that confession is not just about forgiveness of sins. It is also about the healing of sins & of the passions which the Holy Frs always count as the most sure sign of forgiveness.

To go from a straight forward knowledge that our sins have been forgiven in Confession to the understanding of the need to be healed from our passionate disposition however we must deepen our humility & especially how we see ourselves.

As we move in this direction, as St Nikodemos indicates, being conscious of our past sins and how this relates to what we are now is of great profit.

This path however is only safe to the extent that it has been tied together with humility. In other words it has its place and time.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Rick H.]

This path however is only safe to the extent that it has been tied together with humility. In other words it has its place and time.

In Christ- Fr Raphael


Amen. Very well said.

[Mary]

This was a bit of a roadblock for me. Are our sins forgiven when we repent of them or not? My understanding of 1 John 1:9 is "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

How did I get lost here? Any clues for the clueless would be appreciated. Thank you!

Dear Elzabet,

I was working my way through this very question the past week or two. Not because I've been reading the Philokalia - you're surely brave to get into that!

Anyways - so many of the things I'd already confessed in my life confession just before my baptism, kept coming up in my mind as I prayed. I couldn't figure out why, I was feeling like I hadn't been forgiven after all. That had me concerned for a while (I lost track of time, so I can't say how long - hours, days... whatever).

It's slightly untangled in my mind now. I was never 'unforgiven'. When I confessed, and the priest prayed over me, I was indeed forgiven. But my sins are much deeper than I ever imagined possible. The more glimpses I catch of the depth of God's love, the more I understand what I truly did!

I've held on to some fo the most embarrassing things I've ever written. Many times, I've wanted to delete them, because the issues have been resolved. But, I haven't been able to. Whenever I re-read them, I'm so ashamed of myself. I know I'm forgiven, but, I'm afraid that I'll forget how easily I say foolish things, how easily I can hurt others, without even meaning to, how easily I deceive myself into thinking my words are well thought out... If I forget that, I'll do the same thing over and over again. I need to remind myself of my own foolishness - to save someone else the trouble of having to do it for me! =)

Others have already said this in a much better way. But I seem to be slow to learn, and need to experience it for myself in order to understand.

In Christ,
Mary.

PS - I do not feel unforgiven anymore. But I'm still ashamed of my foolishness. However, as you can see, I'm not ashamed enough to be silent!

[John Charmley]

Dear Mary,


I do not feel unforgiven anymore. But I'm still ashamed of my foolishness. However, as you can see, I'm not ashamed enough to be silent!

From what you say and the spirit with which it is said, I hope you won't mind if I say that it also shows that you are humble and loving enough to share this with those of us who also need to experience it to really know the depth of His love for us; it is through such humility and love that we approach the spirit of true repentance.

As St. Isaac writes:

God chastises with love, not for the sake of revenge - far be it! - but in seeking to make whole His image. And He does not harbour wrath until such time as correction is no longer possible, for He does not seek vengeance for Himself. This is the aim of love. Love's chastisement is for correction, but does not aim at retribution. ... The man who chooses to consider God as avenger, presuming that in this manner he bears witness to His justice, the same accuses Him of being bereft of goodness. Far be it that vengeance could ever be found in that Fountain of love and Ocean brimming with goodness. [St. Isaac, Works, part I/48]

Thank you for sharing this with us.

In Christ,

John

[Mary]

As St. Isaac writes:
God chastises with love, not for the sake of revenge - far be it! - but in seeking to make whole His image. And He does not harbour wrath until such time as correction is no longer possible, for He does not seek vengeance for Himself. This is the aim of love. Love's chastisement is for correction, but does not aim at retribution. ... The man who chooses to consider God as avenger, presuming that in this manner he bears witness to His justice, the same accuses Him of being bereft of goodness. Far be it that vengeance could ever be found in that Fountain of love and Ocean brimming with goodness.
[St. Isaac, Works, part I/48]



John, what a beautiful quote! Ties together God's love and His chastisments without any contradictions. I love the orthodox approach to sin and salvation - sin being my sickness and salvation being my road to health. How can anyone be angry at a sick person for being sick? If anything, even we sinful humans tend to show greater kindness and tenderness towards those who are sick and in pain.

Too bad our chastisments don't come in the form of little white pills that can easily be swallowed! =) At least, we dont' have to worry about suffering from side-effects. I take that back... maybe there is one side-effect - bitterness! If we hold it in our mouth instead of swallowing it, we are filled with bitterness!

Ok, I'll spare you more medical details that might apply! =)

Mary.

[Elzabet]

Thank you both.

Mary: what you said really pulled it together for me. While everyone's replies were helpful, I was still kind of lost until your examples solidified everything for me. Thank you very much! I knew I was missing something. And yes, a little white pill

John: That quote is so great! Thank you for it. For someone steeped in the "God's just nature has been offended and He must be paid" theology of the evangelical world, that quote is very soothing.

Beth

[John Charmley]

Dear Beth, Dear Mary,

I am glad that the quotation helped. St. Isaac is a never-ending source of wisdom.

His emphasis upon God's love for us is inspiring, because it encourages us to respond to it by trying to be what He wishes us to be; love breeds love, just as hate breeds hate.

On the theme of God's love, St. Isaac writes:

In love did God bring the world into existence; in love is God going to bring it to that wondrous transformed state, and in love will the world be swallowed up in the great mystery of the One who has performed all these things; in love will the whole course of the governance of creation be finally comprised.

On the theme of our repentance and Grace, we have from the same source:

Repentance is given to man as grace after grace, for repentance is a second regeneration by God. That of which we have received in earnest by baptism, we receive as a gift by means of repentance. Repentance is the door of mercy, opened to those who seek it. By way of this door we enter into the mercy of God, and apart from this entrance we shall not find mercy. 'For all have sinned,' according to divine Scripture, 'being justified freely by His grace.' Repentance is the second grace and is begotten in the heart by faith and fear. Fear is the paternal rod which guides our way until we reach the spiritual paradise of good things. When we have attained thereto, it leaves us and turns back.

In Christ,

John