Help look after your church

[Katherine]

I'm have e-mailed this out to as many friends as I know on my e-mail list who go to my Church, as I really think it's important we get people more involved.

Feel free to forward it on to others that you may know as well, for their encouragement. It's time we take our stand and be more accountable for the Church we love.

----------------------------

Dear friends,

Last night I went to Matins to find my priest looking tired and overwhelmed, and even heard him say, “I feel old.” This made me sad and brought me to the realization that if he is pained to see his flock wandering away, how much more does it pain our Heavenly Father when we wander straight into harms way by walking into the lion’s den?

My friends – we have a lot to be accountable for. This Church is OUR
church. WE are the next generation – but where is everybody? Last night,
not including our priest, the choir made up about 9, and the parishioners made up about 5. If there were no choir, there’d be hardly anyone left in Church. Again, where is everybody?

We spoke to an older lady who tends the lampadas faithfully from day to day, week to week. She mentioned last year during Holy Week, she had no-one to help her so was there until midnight tending and changing the lampadas in order for us to feast.

Some of my fondest memories as a child were when I would help my Aunty in the small Church the family used to attend, to “change everything from black to white” on Good Friday evening. I remember the smiles and the smell of silver spray paint outside, as the boys tended to their candlesticks, shining them and making them look as new as possible for the upcoming feast. The women inside would be cleaning, sweeping the floors, dusting the icons, and arranging big, fragrant white flowers. The men would be behind the iconostasis putting up the XB sign, making sure the light bulbs and electricity worked. Others would be ironing the vestments, but most importantly everything would be changed from the deathly black, to silvery clean white. And every year, my Aunty would faithfully tie the floral embroidered white cloth around Christ’s waist on the Cross, in devotion almost as if she were standing before the real Christ Jesus’ body Himself. All this was done with such love, fervency, and mostly with such sweet anticipation of the coming feast of victory over death, and the Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

My friends, the old ones who do these jobs are not going to be around
forever. Plus with people leaving due to the political nature of the Russian
Church’s reunification and the discomfort with that (which is entirely another matter all together), I now realize it is time for us young ones to step up and help. If we don’t, do you think the generation coming behind us – your children, and your children’s children – will follow? Unlikely. If we don’t take action now, the Church will become an empty morgue, and the saints who so faithfully and lovingly stare down at us from the walls above, will shake their heads in shame and sadness at having no-one to serve Christ Jesus with them.

Please, please if you can, stay and help tend the Church – yes during Holy
Week (and I know we’re always tired after such long services, but …) – and
carry this on throughout the rest of the year as well. It may not seem like much, but every little bit helps. And God will greatly bless you for your faithfulness in serving Him.

Thank you.
In Christ,
Katherine

[Herman Blaydoe]

Indeed, attendance at every service is an opportunity to receive a blessing and we should be trying to take advantage of every opportunity we can, rather than looking for ways to avoid them! We lead such "busy" lives these days, so little time to simply "...Be still, and know that I am God;..." (Psalm 46:10).

Herman,
A struggling pilgrim on the Lenten road to Holy Pascha

[John Charmley]

Dear Herman,

How right you are; and what a powerful plea from Katherine - and a reminder of what the Church truly is.

How it speaks to our disordered priorities that we are 'too busy' to be saved. How patient He is with us, and how wonderful His love. In the words of the newly fashionable hymn: 'Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me'. Of course, the Orthodox understanding of this would be somewhat different from John Newton's, but in so far as it expresses a true understanding of us as 'wretches' in need of Grace and Salvation, it reminds us of why we should all heed Katherine's words - and get to Church more often. That is where we need to be - not busy - but still, and in repentance.

In Christ,

John

[Nina]

Dear Katherine,

Thank you for posting this!

Actually the other day, while talking with a friend, I mentioned that my grandmothers always taught us to help with cleaning the church. All their generation did help so much in every aspect in the church. But they always stressed to us girls, that cleaning the church especially is a good deed. :)

Once while visiting, with one of my grandmothers, a cute, remote, centuries-old church that is dedicated to the Prophet Elias we found in that church two elderly ladies there who were getting ready to leave. They started talking with my grandmother and saying how much they love Prophet Elias!

Since the church is remote, it is no one there to clean it and a priest goes there only several times a year. The church remains always open (just pull the door behind you after leaving!)

These women told us that they usually walk (approximately 40 miles and some hiking) to honor the Prophet Elias because they were very fond of him and with the purpose to clean the church. In S.Europe the churches dedicated to Prophet Elias are usually built on top of mountains or hills, as an indication of the time Prophet Elias spent on mountain.

One of them told us that this time they came to thank again God and Prophet Elias because of a miracle.
The bride of her son had very much difficulty conceiving. The mother in law came to that church prayed, cleaned it and spent the night there praying some more saying: "Please dear Prophet of God Elias! Intercede to our Christ to give a child to my son and daughter in law! Please do this for me and I will always come and clean your church and also if the baby that God will give is a male, we will call him Elias in your honor!"

After entreating Prophet Elias thus she said that she fell asleep in the middle of the church because of her age, because of the long walk and from getting tired. While sleeping she dreamed of Prophet Elias who appeared to her and said: "I am here and you fell asleep?!!! Wake up and rejoice because in nine months you will hold a grandson in your arms! God granted your wish! However I tell you, that you should not name the child Elias. You should name him Christo in honor of our Christ!"

Indeed as the Prophet Elias foretold her in the dream, she held her grandson in her arms exactly 9 months after that day. So even if she was an elderly woman she never stopped from walking for a long time and coming to clean and pray in that remote church. Sometimes she took along little Christo in the pilgrimage.

[Paul Cowan]

In using the Search tab, this was the only place I could find where to ask this question. I did not feel it worthy of its own thread since I doubt there will be more than a couple of responses.

We have a rock tile under the lampadas in front of the icons of the main iconostasis. There are some major oil spills below them. You would think Exxon had come in. ;0

How do I clean this up? It is oil that appears to be seaped into the crevices of the tile.

How does your church clean the censers? I use a store bought degreaser and a pecan picking tool.

How do I get wax and oil out of the alcolyte robes? Should I take them to a dry cleaner or is there a home remedy?

Does the priest clean the articles on the altar? Can I if he removes them for me? Such as the candle abras and the gold temple? (Sorry, again I don't know what it is called. More like a hexagon shaped temple with a tomb inside it)

Thank you in advance,
Paul

[Olga]

A short reply for now: Remove wax from any clothing (except silk and velvet)using a dry (not steam) iron passed over a piece of newspaper or brown paper placed over the wax. If the fabric is satin (as many altarboy's vestments are), there may be some residue, because of the weave of the fabric. This can be removed using white spirit (the hydrocarbon, NOT vodka, raki or grappa! :))

To avoid oilslicks under your lampadas, buy an oilcan with a narrow tapered spout. MUCH less messy than pouring from a bottle. Also, what do you mean by "rock tile"? Slate? Terracotta?

[Effie Ganatsios]

Nina has already said much the same things that I wanted to say.

I'll be brief (HA HA) and just outline the situation here. In villages and in all the little churches (εξωκλισια) that you find all over Greece, women will get together and go and clean them, usually a couple of days before a service is scheduled to be held in them. There is a tiny church on the top of our hill. The women in the area (including myself) go twice a year and clean everything. In the churches in towns and cities, the Orthodox Church pays people to look after the church and its grounds. Our priests don't do anything.

Until a couple of years ago, women would bring flowers from their gardens to decorate various icons (just before their nameday) and the epitaphios. Today, the church pays professional florists to
decorate whatever is needed in the church. I consider this to be very sad. We, the people, need to look after our churches just as well as we look after our homes (which are considered to be little individual churches).

Katherine, you have done a good thing. I hope that the results are what we all wish for.

Effie

[Nicolaj]

Okay Paul, being a ostiarius for sometime I can give you some advices.

If the spoiled oil is that bad as you say it is best to remove it with a portable steam cleaner which also allows you to mix it with a cleaning agent. Don't work to fast, but it all will be removed!

The censers I put first of all in the dishwasher at home, then take polish and have it shiny, this works fine, I do this with all the little pieces. To polish the large and smaller pieces I also use automatic polish machines like you may use at home for your car, the smaller ones of course.

The articles from the altar hands the priest out and then they all get their shiny check-up and afterwards I put them aside and the priest when he comes the next time, puts them at place with his prayers along.

Wax is best removed by putting the clothes in the freezer and then break the wax away and burst the last pieces out and then wash the garments as usual.

I hope this helps you.

In Christ, Nicolaj

[Effie Ganatsios]

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Wax is best removed by putting the clothes in the freezer and then break the wax away and burst the last pieces out and then wash the garments as usual.

I hope this helps you.

In Christ, Nicolaj

The wax removal tip is interesting, Nicolaj. I'm going to try it.
At Easter we usually have a couple of dried wax drops on our clothes. I iron them off using brown paper. The brown paper lifts the wax. I just keep ironing and using clean pieces of brown paper until it is all removed.

Effie

[Nina]

The wax removal tip is interesting, Nicolaj. I'm going to try it.
At Easter we usually have a couple of dried wax drops on our clothes. I iron them off using brown paper. The brown paper lifts the wax. I just keep ironing and using clean pieces of brown paper until it is all removed.

Effie

I have used both of these methods and both are efficient. The freezer method helps also when there are objects like candle holders with melted wax still in them. It lifts very easily after some freezing time. :) But if the wax is on the carpet at church (for those churches that do have carpeted floors) the best method is to kneel, (and pray - if you wish), and iron with old pieces of clothes, or paper that can absorb.

[Sarah Wagner-Wassen]

Katherine,

If I may comment, the practices you describe have largely fallen away in America. Maybe it's because converts don't realize that they can do this, or they have never been taught how. Also, I have found that many priests here in America are afraid to delegate these tasks to lay people, especially women. Usually when I hear the priest ask for help it's "I need some men to help me get the church ready." So often women don't realize that they are, in fact, allowed to clean and polish the lampadas and do the other tasks you describe. It's sad, I agree.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Katherine,

If I may comment, the practices you describe have largely fallen away in America. Maybe it's because converts don't realize that they can do this, or they have never been taught how. Also, I have found that many priests here in America are afraid to delegate these tasks to lay people, especially women. Usually when I hear the priest ask for help it's "I need some men to help me get the church ready." So often women don't realize that they are, in fact, allowed to clean and polish the lampadas and do the other tasks you describe. It's sad, I agree.

This is very interesting for it brings to mind something I have often referred to in the Forum- the strong role of women within Russian Orthodox parishes. Anyone involved in a Russian parish probably knows how the parish is only a real parish when it has a 'sestrichestvo' (sisterhood). The head of this is always 'the elder sister'. Working together, the sisterhood cooks, cleans the church and makes donations to charitable causes & individuals. And just to make sure everything is running alright, the sisterhood gets the men involved also.

This I am convinced actually comes from old- even ancient- Russian culture in which women have always played a very large role. They often have acted as anchor points for the society at large.

What's striking though is the sensibility of Russian women & the way they show initiative which is quite different from the west.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Olga]

Women are the backbone and "glue" of the life of many an Orthodox parish, Greek as well as Russian/Slavic. The place would fall apart in a screaming heap if it weren't for these industrious and indomitable ladies. That's not to say the men have no part to play (after all, the warden/neokoros/starosta is almost always male), but their numbers are far fewer by comparison.

[Anna]

I don't know about other US parishes or other converts, but my priests have never been afraid to ask us to pitch in, and every parish to which I've belonged has had a cleaning day during Lent. At our church now, we usually do our spring cleaning on Lazarus Saturday. Father brings stuff out of the altar for us to clean and polish, and usually one of the men will go inside to help him clean in there. We take all the icons down and wash the walls, and use holy water to gently clean the icons if necessary. My daughters' favorite jobs are polishing the candle stands after removing the wax. (It's always a challenge for them to recall exactly HOW the candlestand fits back together.) Cleaning day is one of our favorites! This year, however, the girls and I will be doing our part on Friday--I have to clean the chandelier as we missed it last year--we can't drive back and forth Friday, Saturday, and Sunday; we're committed to being there on Friday to help with Pre-Sanctified. It won't be quite the same, but it will get done and that's what is important.

When it comes to routine stuff, we just sorta take turns doing this or that, whatever needs to be done. Sometimes that means running a vacuum after church or staying after a weekday liturgy to scrub a floor.

[Janice Chadwick]

I don't know about other US parishes or other converts, but my priests have never been afraid to ask us to pitch in, and every parish to which I've belonged has had a cleaning day during Lent. At our church now, we usually do our spring cleaning on Lazarus Saturday. Father brings stuff out of the altar for us to clean and polish, and usually one of the men will go inside to help him clean in there. We take all the icons down and wash the walls, and use holy water to gently clean the icons if necessary. My daughters' favorite jobs are polishing the candle stands after removing the wax. (It's always a challenge for them to recall exactly HOW the candlestand fits back together.) Cleaning day is one of our favorites! This year, however, the girls and I will be doing our part on Friday--I have to clean the chandelier as we missed it last year--we can't drive back and forth Friday, Saturday, and Sunday; we're committed to being there on Friday to help with Pre-Sanctified. It won't be quite the same, but it will get done and that's what is important.

When it comes to routine stuff, we just sorta take turns doing this or that, whatever needs to be done. Sometimes that means running a vacuum after church or staying after a weekday liturgy to scrub a floor.

Anna, I live in the US, and our church members are responsible for cleaning the church. Each week, two individuals/families are assigned to clean the church, one cleaning the upstairs and one the downstairs. The only area that we don't clean is the altar area, which the priests/deacon are responsible for. Two or three times a year, we have a special cleaning. We also will be having our spring cleaning this Saturday after the Lazarus Saturday liturgy. It will be a busy day, as we will also help with getting the palm leaves and ***** willows ready for Sunday. We also will be receiving two people into the Church before the Vespers service. In the late Spring/early Summer, we will have a cleanup day to take care of the grounds. I'm sure people will also pitch in during Holy Week to vacuum and clean up wax from the wood floors, etc.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Janice Chadwick wrote:


I'm sure people will also pitch in during Holy Week to vacuum and clean up wax from the wood floors, etc.

We did our major clean up of the church yesterday. Wax on the floor but especially on the carpets is a major challenge.

The carpets are quite new and we discovered that the material melts very easily using the classic hot iron and cloth towel technique.

We have tried other methods: a spray to remove wax; wire brushes. But the only thing that really works is the hot iron and towel approach. However due to the carpet material melting so easily we can only use the tip of the iron on each individual spot, one at a time. Which is very laborious.

Does anyone have any ideas then for removing wax from a carpet that tends to melt easily?

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Herman Blaydoe]

Janice Chadwick wrote:



We did our major clean up of the church yesterday. Wax on the floor but especially on the carpets is a major challenge.

The carpets are quite new and we discovered that the material melts very easily using the classic hot iron and cloth towel technique.

We have tried other methods: a spray to remove wax; wire brushes. But the only thing that really works is the hot iron and towel approach. However due to the carpet material melting so easily we can only use the tip of the iron on each individual spot, one at a time. Which is very laborious.

Does anyone have any ideas then for removing wax from a carpet that tends to melt easily?

In Christ- Fr Raphael

I would suggest using butcher paper with the iron on a low setting. The butcher paper soaks the wax up rather well with the advantage of being able to see what has been soaked up. It seems to work well for us.

And as a caveat, whatever you do, do NOT use a paper towel! We tried that and there was evidently some sort of plastic reinforcement which melted quite handily into the carpet. It was very ugly.

Herman

[Olga]

White spirits is a solvent for wax (it is used to remove wax from fabric when using selective dyeing techniques, such as batik), though try it first on a sample of carpet to see if it affects the carpet itself. Dry-cleaning fluid may also be useful.

The moral of the story: Though more expensive, woollen carpet (ideally, pure wool) is easier to maintain than synthetics. Hard flooring such as wooden boards or parquetry is easier still.

[Father David Moser]

Another technique that might be useful is to go cold instead of hot. Freeze the wax spots and that makes it very brittle and easy to pick out. Long ago, I did a stint as a janitor and we had these spray cans that would freeze whatever you sprayed them on (in our case it worked well for things like gum and peanut butter). Such a thing might still be available (although I suspect that what I used was just a can of freon which is now known to be environmentally unsound.)

Fr David Moser

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Herman wrote:


as a caveat, whatever you do, do NOT use a paper towel! We tried that and there was evidently some sort of plastic reinforcement which melted quite handily into the carpet. It was very ugly.


That might have been exactly what caused the worst marks. Thanks.

As it turned out after our Presanctified this morning some of the ladies coloured in the stains with red markers & artist's paints!

Where there's a will there's a way.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

White spirits is a solvent for wax (it is used to remove wax from fabric when using selective dyeing techniques, such as batik), though try it first on a sample of carpet to see if it affects the carpet itself. Dry-cleaning fluid may also be useful.

The moral of the story: Though more expensive, woollen carpet (ideally, pure wool) is easier to maintain than synthetics. Hard flooring such as wooden boards or parquetry is easier still.

What is white spirits?

Although I can make a guess I would not have thought it would work to remove wax from carpets.

But you never know do you?

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Another technique that might be useful is to go cold instead of hot. Freeze the wax spots and that makes it very brittle and easy to pick out. Long ago, I did a stint as a janitor and we had these spray cans that would freeze whatever you sprayed them on (in our case it worked well for things like gum and peanut butter). Such a thing might still be available (although I suspect that what I used was just a can of freon which is now known to be environmentally unsound.)

Fr David Moser

This is a good idea that I will try to keep in mind.

At first though I wondered how we could ever get hold of a freezer big enough to fit our church into.

[M.C. Steenberg]

At first though I wondered how we could ever get hold of a freezer big enough to fit our church into.

Are you not in Canada? Just open the doors...

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Are you not in Canada? Just open the doors...

INXC, Dcn Matthew

Don't worry. That already was my first thought.

It's not just that we are IN Canada. It's more that I am Canadian.

[M.C. Steenberg]

It's not just that we are IN Canada. It's more that I am Canadian.

Fair, Father. But I thought the comment "Stare at the wax with your frosty Canadian glare" would have caused scandal to the faithful. :)

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Anthony]

This I am convinced actually comes from old- even ancient- Russian culture in which women have always played a very large role. They often have acted as anchor points for the society at large.


I read in an archaeology book that the ancient (pre-Slavic) culture of Russia was probably matriarchal. I don't know this for a fact, but I don't think I would like to bet against it. ;)

[Effie Ganatsios]

Anthony, your post brought a smile to my face.

Don't you know that most countries are still matriachal, in one sense of the word.

Grown men, when they are in great pain or trouble, call on either the Panayia - the Theotokos - or their mother.

The Italians and the Greeks have a saying - una fatsa, una ratsa, which doesn't mean that we have the same origins but we certainly have the same habits.......................

Mothers rule the home, while never, never demeaning or going against their husbands, especially when the children or other people are present. Men respect their wives, they depend on them for advice, but at the same time, they are proud to be men and know that their wives respect them and love them.

No-where is this more evident than in matters of faith. I have found that in general, women lead and their families follow. How many gentle little old women hide iron in their souls. They know what is right and what is wrong and no-one can stop them from doing what they consider to be proper. They are an inspiration to us. I don't know what future generations will be like, but at this moment in time, I still see lots of these little old women leading the rest of us by example. I hope this never ends.

The above are generalizations of course, but why not concentrate on positive majorities rather than the negative minorities. Something we should do always.

[Peter S.]

Actually here in Norway we cleaned the Church today before the Great Week and Pascha. We had a little social arrangement with some food afterwards. Its usually the same people that come to clean and polish, around ten people, and mostly women.

Ten to fiftheen years ago it was just our deacon and priest that were doing this work, and its a shame. But before that it was more eagerness helping in Church I ve heared. I m sometimes troubled with my generation and how it will be when/if I grow old in this Church, maybe as you Katherine, with such cleaning arrangements and with Church life in general. Happily one of our deacons at my age will become a priest this summer, and he was helping today, so it is hope ;) And we are many children in our small Church too.

Peter

[Paul C.]

Oh, this is such a positive and enjoyable thread to read!

I felt that I just had to say something also. I have moved around USA quite a bit and I have been attending a number of parishes during Great Lent. All of them had a clean-up and fix-up day, where all the parish were invited to help.

Males mowed the lawn, pulled weeds, fixed fences, cleaned the altar and even did some painting on some years.

The women cleaned the entire main area of the church, vacuumed, swept, mopped, polished and cleaned all the candle stands. They also cleaned the pascal vestments and some parishes used that time to clean all of them.

The women also prepared huge lenten meals with soup and other foods. This was offered to all the parish volunteer workers with a priest led prayer before and after.

It's a great chance for parishioners to get acquainted. It's a family day too and the work is actually fun.

With the Holy Trinity, Paul

[Paul C.]

"A short reply for now: Remove wax from any clothing (except silk and velvet)using a dry (not steam) iron passed over a piece of newspaper or brown paper placed over the wax.

Stop press! News flash! I just finished talking with an elderly woman member of my parish.

I told her about this thread and the silk and velvet exception for dry iron wax removal. Guess what? She said to use a steam iron but do not press it to the fabric or to paper or cloth.

She said to use the steam spray feature and spray the wax with steam at a distance from the velvet (she doesnot know about silk) until the wax becomes real soft. Then dab it with a clean cloth. Repeat as many times as necessary.

This made me think about the problem with some carpets mentioned. There are inexpensive steam cleaners available in stores like Walmart. Some are even given away free if you buy a vacuum cleaner. Maybe setting them on a low heat-setting or high distance setting above the carpet (experimentaion may be needed) will prevent damage to the carpet.

By the Holy Trinity, Paul

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Paul C. wrote:


She said to use the steam spray feature and spray the wax with steam at a distance from the velvet (she doesnot know about silk) until the wax becomes real soft. Then dab it with a clean cloth. Repeat as many times as necessary.

This made me think about the problem with some carpets mentioned. There are inexpensive steam cleaners available in stores like Walmart. Some are even given away free if you buy a vacuum cleaner. Maybe setting them on a low heat-setting or high distance setting above the carpet (experimentaion may be needed) will prevent damage to the carpet.

Yes, one thing I tried after awhile was to spray the wax onto the carpet with the hot water from the iron. It has some effect. But the texture of the carpet also affects how deeply the wax has settled into it. So sometimes only the iron itself worked.

[Father David Moser]

She said to use the steam spray feature and spray the wax with steam at a distance from the velvet (she doesnot know about silk) until the wax becomes real soft. Then dab it with a clean cloth. Repeat as many times as necessary.

This made me think about the problem with some carpets mentioned. There are inexpensive steam cleaners available in stores like Walmart.

Thanks for jogging my memory. In the past I have used a blow hair dryer set on high for the same purpose (I was cleaning wax off my kamilavka). That might also work well for carpets as the hot air is warm enough to melt the wax, but not hot enough to burn skin (well except with prolonged exposure.)

Fr David Moser