Communion of the faithful

[Dimitris]

Hallo!

In a book describing the Divine Liturgy of St. Chrysostomos I read that according to newer Greek liturgical rubrics the diacon before the Communion of the Faithful transfers the non-consecrated parts of the Holy Bread into the Chalice. Does anyone know if this is really practiced like that? What would be the reason to do so? In my understanding this would make no sense at all because it would be just accident whether you commune the Body of Christ or not.

Dimitris

[Herman Blaydoe]

This is NOT done in my ACROD parish! I have never witnessed or heard of such a practice in the ROCOR or OCA. Only the bread that consecrated is put in the chalice. Non-consecrated bread is set aside for the antidoron at the end of the Liturgy.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Herman, you wrote:


Only the bread that consecrated is put in the chalice. Non-consecrated bread is set aside for the antidoron at the end of the Liturgy.

This is note quite right. The consecrated Lamb is placed in the chalice following the communion of the clergy (who communicate of the body and blood separately), so that these two are commingled for the communion of the faithful.

The many 'particles' of the prosphora that have been placed on the patten during the proskomedia (the liturgy of preparation of the elements) remain on the patten after the Lamb is partitioned and placed in the chalice - i.e., these particles are not in the chalice when it is brought out of the altar into the nave for the communion. But these particles are added to the chalice, by the deacon, after the communion of the faithful (to the words "washing away the sins of all those remembered here...").

The apparent practice about which Dimitri was speaking, namely the placing of the particles in the chalice prior to the communion, is something I've never before heard of. Dimitri: in what book did you read of this?

INXC, Matthew

[Herman Blaydoe]

When the priest performs "Proskemedia" or the Preparation, he takes out the Lamb. He then commemorates the Theotokos, Apostles, Saints, etc, as well as those who have been listed for commemoration during the Eucharist. These particles go on the paten along with the Lamb. ALL of this becomes the "Host", as I understand it, it is ALL consecrated. because it is all elevated over the altar by the Priest ("Thine of of Thine own..."). The leftover portions of the bread, which are not put on the paten, and not therefore consecrated, are divided up for the antidoron, and none of it is put in the Chalice in our practice.

If I am mistaken, I sincerely look forward to correction and enlightenment.

[Father David Moser]

The apparent practice about which Dimitri was speaking, namely the placing of the particles in the chalice prior to the communion, is something I've never before heard of. Dimitri: in what book did you read of this?


What Dimitri describes is what I have been told is standard Byzantine typicon (or at least Greek) practice. I have observed it in various GOA parishes that I have visited (at at least one Antiochian that I can recall). The preparation of the lamb and the chalice is the same until the end of the priest's communion. Then the pieces of the lamb (NI/KA) set aside for the communion of the people (and possible the remainder of the clergy portion - XC - if it is not fully consumed) are placed in the chalice. Then the entire contents of the paten are also "swept" into the chalice. The communion is given to the people by the priest by breaking off a portion of the large pieces of lamb in the chalice so that in this way the "unconsecrated bread" is not given in error to the people as the Most Holy Body of Christ. (Just my personal observation, but the Slav/Russian style seems to be "neater").

Fr David Moser

[Dimitris]

The apparent practice about which Dimitri was speaking, namely the placing of the particles in the chalice prior to the communion, is something I've never before heard of. Dimitri: in what book did you read of this?
Dear Matthew,

I read it in a Liturgy book, where the Chrysostomos-Liturgy, besides the original Greek version, is translated into German and modern Greek. The author himself, theology professor Anastasios Kallis, notes that this is actually a very "strange" custom.

Dear Father David,

thank you very much for your clarifications. Maybe I will ask my priest how the practice is like in my church.

Dimitris

[M.C. Steenberg]

Thank you to Fr David, Dimitri and others for interesting posts in this thread.

I had a discussion on this topic with a priest this evening, who is knowledgeable in liturgical matters. He confirmed for me the Byzantine practice of placing the particles in the chalice before the people's communion (which perhaps dates back to the liturgical book reforms of the post-Byzantine period). But it is worth noting that in neither tradition are the particles normally considered 'consecrated', as is the Lamb in becoming the Body and Blood of Christ. The particles in the chalice are sanctified thereby; but this is not seen liturgically as quite the same thing as the sacrificial focus on the Lamb upon the patten. But in any case it is an odd abbreviation, or condensation, of the movements of the bread on the altar.

The Russian tradition preserves the practice of leaving the particles on the patten until after the communion is finished, when they are added to the chalice by the deacon -- and all else aside, this practice preserves the symbolism of the act as connected to the words he says at the time: "Wash away, O Lord, by thy precious blood the sins of thy servants here remembered...". The particles of remembrance are added to the chalice containing the blood of Christ, in this manner uniting those remembered to the blood of the one by whom their remembrance in prayer is made salvific (as an aside, this is one of the traditional reasons given for the practice, in many Orthodox traditions, of offering only the names of Orthodox people on commemoration lists with prosphora given in to the altar: as the particle of bread symbolising their person in prayer is drawn together with the blood and body of Christ in the chalice, it is understood as a manner of symbolic communion -- an extension of personal communion at the altar, and thus subject to the same standards of reception).

But it is worth noting that in neither practice are the particles understood as, strictly speaking, the consecrated Body of Christ in the same way as is the Lamb, despite residing on the same patten when elevated above the altar. It is the Lamb which is touched by the priest; the Lamb that is pierced, the Lamb that is cut and separated.

INXC, Matthew

[Andrew]

Which form is done on the Holy Mountain?

Also, when the Great Entrance is made, do the Hagiorite priests process around the church (like the Antiochians and those in the GOA do), or do they simply come out of the Holy Doors and stand at the ambo in the Russian style?

[Anthony]

Maybe off at a tangent here, but what is the origin of the common Greek practice of putting the sermon immediately before the communion of the people? And am I right in thinking (as one priest told me) that it is liturgically problematic?

[Father David Moser]

Actually the liturgy is structured so as to allow for multiple sermons. There is the sermon after the Gospel, which is meant as an exposition based on the readings of the day which have just been presented. Then there is the homily at the end, which is intended to be a more general exhortation and/or comments on the life of the saint/feast of the day. During the priests communion, there are a variety of practices - in many places, the choir sings some appropriate hymns; in other places, the reader reads the prayers of preparation; and in other places with multiple clergy, one of the priests comes out and gives a homily to help the flock prepare themselves to receive the Holy Mysteries, while the remainder of the clergy work to prepare the Chalice. It would not be out of line for there to be three homilies in a liturgy, one at each place. I personally prefer to give a homily after the Gospel, but I have given homilies at each of those places in the liturgy as circumstances provide.

Fr David Moser

[Nina]

Yes, like Father David said, it depends.

When I was attending a cathedral and there was an Archbishop and many priests and monks it was different. When I moved to a new city and there was only a monk priest in the church it was different. Now, because I moved again, things are also different and there is a sermon after the Gospel and a homily at the very end of the Liturgy.

It all depends on cultural behavior and the discernment of the clergy decides for the best spiritual profit of the flock.

For instance there are places in the world that some Orthodox believers leave the Church immediately after receiving the Holy Communion. They do not even wait for the prayer "With the blessings of our Fathers..." to be said. Therefore preaching to them before the Holy Communion is crucial for their spiritual edification. I think the benefit in this particular case outweighs the liturgical problem that a sermon immediately before Holy Communion may present.

[Anthony]

Dear Fr. David and Nina,

Thank you for your replies, both of which were very helpful. I didn't know of the custom of giving a homily at this point to help the faithful prepare for communion. (In fact the problem the priest I mentioned pointed out was that a homily at this point interrupts the preparation for communion provided by the Liturgy.) And I certainly take the point that in some parishes this can be the only time when the priest has a "captive audience", so to speak, and can challenge them to think about the meaning of what they are doing.

Anthony

[Father David Moser]

I didn't know of the custom of giving a homily at this point to help the faithful prepare for communion.

I have also been instructed at various times that the hymns sung by the choir during the priest's communion (a common practice) shouldn't be just any old hymn but should be carefully selected so as to further the preparation of those who will approach the chalice

Fr David