Parenting

[Trudy]

P.S Being inspired from this thread and the information I learned here, I wish that those of you (and of course our Fathers here) sisters in Christ, who have children, or know about such things as parenting, would start a thread with Orthodox advise and Orthodox material you peruse about parenting to help prepare the rest of us, who maybe God willing will enter that realm. I was thinking about this lately and I would very much appreciate it - especially because I lost my mother and grandmothers, and I feel a need for continued preparation.

Nina's post script on the "Head Coverings" thread prompted me to start a new thread on Parenting. If this is in the wrong place, would one of the Moderators please move it to a more appropriate location?

First, may I please say I am by no means at all an expert on parenting or about parenting or anything of the like. I am not a psychologist, doctor or what-have-you. I was received into the Orthodox Church only two and one-half years ago, so know very little if anyting about being or living Orthodoxy. I may know the Bible but know very, very little of the Church Fathers.

What I can say is, I am "Mom" to two adult children (Ian age 26 and Brianna age 21) and Aunt to about a dozen. Both children were raised in a God fearing, God loving home by two parents who loved both children and each other very much.

However, I believe Nina's suggestion is worth merit, thus the spin off topic. Where this topic can go, I do not know. But at least a thread is started.

Proverbs says, "Raise up a child in the way they should go, and when they are old they shall not depart from it." I've rested my faith in that and continually prayer for my children, as they wander the road of life.

Looking forward to any and all contributions, especially from our resident Priests and Monastics.

With love in Christ,
Athanasia

[Andrew]

The book by Sister Magdalen called "Children in the Church" is very good.

I do not have any kids, but hopefully when I get married next year we will be quite fruitful.

[Elzabet]

I am a participant in another board that is for Orthodox parents. Currently it is mostly ((if not all)) female. I do not know the policy at Monachos for posting links to other boards but if it is alright I will post it or pm it to those who ask.

Christ is Risen!
Beth

[Chris Manaras]

I have, as of recently, been working with the concepts from a book called "Boundries with Kids" and applying the teachings from it in the raising of my two children and two stepchildren (aged 5,6,7,&8). The interm results have been wonderfull and it's only been a couple of months. I also gave my former wife a copy and hope she and I can start working "together".

The book is co-authored by two clinical phycologists with a very Christian outlook on raising children.

I don't believe the authors are Orthodox. But that is not the point. I believe that the book would stand soley on the phycological merits of the concepts. Once some universal Christian teaching are introduced, it make so much more sence.


I recommend this book to anyone involved in any way in the life of a child they love.

[Trudy]

Chris, may God bless you as a parent to four children a year apart! Talk about having your hands full! What a blessing and joy!

Your thoughts on boundaries, as noted on this thread and another, brought to mind a parenting article I read in yesterday's local newspaper. It was written by a notable "parenting expert" who I respect a great deal and believe is right on target.

The article centered around his recent experience with his 4 year old grandson who would not carry out the request given to pick up his crayons from the floor before receiving his snack. Of course, the 4 year old threw a tantrum and the author recounted how he handled the situation...by establishing boundaries and letting the child know who was in charge...the adult.

You wrote of the same issue noting that the Church is our Mother on another thread. How true and right you are! As our Mother, the Church has established boundaries. Those boundaries serve as our guide and our protection in a world that has none and is evil.

As a parent, there were boundaries for my children. I used to say to them, "There is a lot of freedom within the boundaries!" They never believed me, only railing against the restrictions they felt were unfair, constantly testing and pushing against them. With minor things I would let them go outside the boundary so that they received the natural consequences, but not with major things.

Not that long ago my daughter said to me, "Gee Mom, you were right; there is A LOT of freedom within the boundaries!"

I just smiled.

~Athanasia~

[Nina]

Dear Athanasia, Andrew, Elzabet and Chris,

Thank you for starting and contributing in this thread and for all your advise and recommendation! Hopefully it will continue. I came across a passage pertinent to the thread, that I would like to include as a reference for the future.

From Father Alexander Schmemann:

"In the Orthodox world view, the home and the family constitute the first and most important area of Christian life, of application of Christian principles to daily existence. It is certainly the home, the very style and spirit of family life, and not the school, not even the Church, that shapes our fundamental world view, that shapes in us that fundamental orientation of which we may not even be aware for a long time, but which ultimately will become a decisive factor. Dostoevsky's "staretz" Zosima - in The Brothers Karamazov - says: "A man who from his childhood can remember good things is saved for his whole life." It is very significant that he makes this remark after recalling his mother taking him to the Presanctified Liturgy, the beauty of the service, the unique Lenten melody of "Let my prayer be set forth in Thy sight as incense...". The wonderful effort of religious education which is being made today in our church schools will mean very little unless it is rooted in the home and family life." pp.100-101

From the book: Great Lent: Journey to Pascha

While reading this passage, I recalled the innumerate lives of Saints that tell how they were steered to faith, piety and sainthood by their parents - same as the elder Zosima of Dostoevsky.

[Trudy]

While reading this passage, I recalled the innumerate lives of Saints that tell how they were steered to faith, piety and sainthood by their parents - same as the elder Zosima of Dostoevsky.

This brings to mind St. Augustine of Hippo who led a wayward life for a very long time. His dear mother, Monica, shed many a tear over him from what I understand. She is commemorated on May 4.

Snippets from the OCA Website:

St Monica was married to a pagan official named Patritius, who had a short temper and lived an immoral life. At first, her mother-in-law did not like her, but Monica won her over by her gentle disposition.

She worried about Augustine, who lived with a young woman in Carthage and had an illegitimate son with her. Her constant prayers and tears for her son had the effect of converting her husband to Christ before his death. Augustine, however, continued on the path that led away from Christ.

While in Carthage, Augustine fell under the influence of the heretical Manichean sect. His mother was horrified and tried to turn him away from his error. She had a dream in which she was told to be patient and gentle with her son. Augustine, however, paid little attention to her arguments, and remained in his delusion for nine years. St Monica must have felt disheartened and disappointed, but she never gave up on him. She even tried to enlist the help of a bishop who had once been a Manichean himself, but he would not dispute with Augustine. He said he couldn't reason with the young man, because he was still attracted by the novelty of the heresy. He did reassure her saying, "Go on your way, and God bless you, for it is not possible that the son of these tears should be lost."

St Monica went to Rome with Augustine when he lectured there in 383. Later, he received an appointment to Milan, where he met St Ambrose (December 7) and was greatly impressed by his preaching. Bishop Ambrose came to have a high regard for St Monica, and often congratulated Augustine on having such a virtuous mother.

One day Augustine was reading the New Testament in a garden, and came to Romans 13:12-14. There and then Augustine decided to "cast off the works of darkness," and to "put on the Lord Jesus Christ." He was baptized on the eve of Pascha in 387.

In the West, St Monica is considered the patron saint of wives and mothers whose husbands or sons have gone astray.

This gives me great hope especially for my son over whom I have shed many, many tears.

St. Monica pray for us and for our children!

In Christ, Athanasia

[Andrew]

Elder Porphyrios has a lot of insight into parenting in Wounded By Love.

[Nina]

Christ is Risen!

Dear Trudy,

Your post about Saint Monica, reminded me of Anthusa, another exceptional Christian mother, who by her way of life inspired Libanius, a heathen and the best classical scholar and rhetorician of his times, to say: "What women these Christians have!" Anthousa was widowed at age 20 and rejected every offer for a second marriage and dedicated her life to the upbringing and the education of her two children. One of them is our most beloved, Saint Chrysostom!

Libanius was the teacher of Saint John Chrysostom and held a high esteem not only for his mother Anthusa, but also for our Saint. On his deathbed, Libanius was asked about his choice for a successor, to which he replied: "John, if only the Christians had not stolen him from us.” Here it is important to mention the crucial role Anthusa played in the life of her son. She valued and provided a profound and broad (even classical) education for our Saint, however through her Christian life, teachings and piety, she secured Saint Chrysostom from the enticements of paganism and worldly life. I am very fond of her, not only because she is a wonderful model as a Christian mother and not only because she caused the admiration and appreciation of pagans for Christian women, but also most importantly, because she molded the Golden Mouth (Χρυσόστομος)!

Dear Andrew,

I have planned to get the book Wounded by Love, however I never imagined that it would relate in any way with parenting. Thank you so much!

[Eleftheria]

Christ is Risen!

St. Theophan's Raising Them Right which (I believe) is taken from a

larger work...something about Salvation...the title escapes me for now - is a

wonderful starter book for parents.

From my own (occasionally) harried life as a mother of 5 - there is 1 thing

that always helps - prayer to our Panagia.

[Trudy]

Christ is Risen!
From my own (occasionally) harried life as a mother of 5 - there is 1 thing that always helps - prayer to our Panagia.

Indeed He is Risen!

Often I ask St. Anna, the ancestor of our Lord, to pray for me and my children as well. I figure that what Grandson doesn't listen to their Grandmother's requests?

Praying to our Panagia brings me a great deal of comfort because I know She understands exactly how I feel as mother.

~Athanasia~

[Nina]

From my own (occasionally) harried life as a mother of 5 - there is 1 thing
that always helps - prayer to our Panagia.



Often I ask St. Anna, the ancestor of our Lord, to pray for me and my children as well. I figure that what Grandson doesn't listen to their Grandmother's requests?
Praying to our Panagia brings me a great deal of comfort because I know She understands exactly how I feel as mother.
~Athanasia~

Dear Eleftheria and Athanasia, you are both so right! In addition, I would like to add that my mother's blessings for us would also always invoke Panagia's help and protection.

Athanasia, your idea about the Grandmother of our Christ is amazing also! I never thought about it. :) Thank you!

Both your posts reminded me of some quotes from Elder Porphyrios:


The Elder said: "Don't pressure your children. Whatever you say to them, say it with your prayers. Children don't listen with their ears. They'll only listen to what we want to tell them when divine grace appears and enlightens them. When you want to say something to your child, say it to the Most-Pure Mother of God, and she will do all the work. Your prayer will become a spiritual hug, which embraces your children and captivates them. We, you see, often try to hugh them but they object. They never object to a spiritual hug, though.
The Elder was once asked, "My daughter is living a dissolute life, how can I save her?" To which he responded: "Only with your own holiness. A parent's holiness saves their children."
The Elder said: "Your children should not hear you arguing even once, not even if you raise the tone of your voices to one another." A spiritual child responded: "That's not possible, Elder!" "But of course it's possible. Just as I'm telling you it is, not even once."

[Trudy]

Nina,

Thank you so much for sharing the quotes by Elder Porphyrios. I've not heard of him before. The first quote, especially, speaks to my heart. How I wish I had those words to lean upon when my children were growing up. But now they are "adults" in the world's sense of the word. Though, a mother's prayers are always worthy for the children, no matter their age.

I'm glad to know this quote before having grandchildren, should God see fit to bless my children in such a manner.

In Christ,
Athanasia (Trudy)

[Nina]

This brings to mind St. Augustine of Hippo who led a wayward life for a very long time. His dear mother, Monica, shed many a tear over him from what I understand. She is commemorated on May 4.

Snippets from the OCA Website:


This gives me great hope especially for my son over whom I have shed many, many tears.

St. Monica pray for us and for our children!

In Christ, Athanasia

Christ is Risen!

Happy Saint Monica (and all Saints that we celebrate today) feast day, dear Trudy! :)

[Andrew]

Nina,

Thank you so much for sharing the quotes by Elder Porphyrios. I've not heard of him before. The first quote, especially, speaks to my heart. How I wish I had those words to lean upon when my children were growing up. But now they are "adults" in the world's sense of the word. Though, a mother's prayers are always worthy for the children, no matter their age.

I'm glad to know this quote before having grandchildren, should God see fit to bless my children in such a manner.

In Christ,
Athanasia (Trudy)

I highly recommend the book Wounded by Love. The life of Elder Porphyrios is one of a saint. The book is basiclally one of his spiritual children writting down a long autobiographical speech of the Elder... truly, it is amazing. His counsels at the end of the book are very deep, hitting upon pretty much every aspect of faith and life that you could imagine. Everything from attitudes towards ecclesial politics to how to pray the prayer, to parenting, to working, interpersonal relationships, the war with thoughts, the logoi of created things, the Revelation at Patmos... literally, there's so much. I don't know where I put this book! I think my fiancee borrowed it from me... or maybe I still have it. Anyways, it is a great book. The modern Athonite Blessed Elders Joseph, Paisios, Porphyrios, and Sophrony have such wonderful works available in the English language. I wish more people would read them in the US!

[Nina]

Thank you again Andrew! I have been planing to buy the book (Wounded by Love) since my mom was still alive because some quote from it spoke directly to my pain and because I love Elder Porphyrios. I have been neglecting the wish to read that book for more than a year now, and I thank you for your post, because it is time to start reading it. :)

[Father Serafim]

Glory be to God for such wonderful elders as Porphyrios and Paissios and others too! Elder Charalampos reinforces what both Porphyrios and Paissios say about parenting. Don't argue with your children, especially teenagers. Go to your icon corner and pray for them. God wants you pray and these trials are sent to return us to our duty to be holy before our children. From my own weakness I would also add that we should not beat ourselves up because of it. Our children know our weaknesses - our dark side, nevertheless when they sense that we are trying to repent before God, then things start to happen. I know this from my own bitter experience and failure. We have 10 children to account for.

[Trudy]

Don't argue with your children, especially teenagers. Go to your icon corner and pray for them. [snip]... nevertheless when they sense that we are trying to repent before God, then things start to happen.

Father Serafim,

Do you believe that 'things start to happen' applies to children who are grown to adulthood as well? As a parent, we ought to continue to pray for our children though they are adults. I wonder how our prayers change due to that?

Thanks be to God for your thoughts.

~Athanasia~

[Father Serafim]

We should continue to pray for our children as long as they live. It's the same prayer. I like to read an Akathistos to Blessed Makaria of Temkino (I'm working on an English translation: to be found at pokrov-seattle.org - and please nudge me if nothing happens!)

[Nina]

I received this by email:

"If artists who make statues and paint portraits of kings are held in high esteem, will not God bless ten thousand times more those who reveal and beautify His royal image? - for man is the image of God. When we teach our children to be good, to be gentle, to be forgiving - all attributes of God, to be generous, to love their neighbor, to regard this present age as nothing, we install virtue in their souls, and reveal the image of God within them. This, then, is our task: to educate both ourselves and our children in godliness; otherwise what answer will we have before Christ's judgment seat? . Let us be greatly concerned for our wives and our children, and for ourselves as well.

The good God Himself will bring this work to perfection, so that all of us may be counted worthy of the blessings He has promised."

St. John Chrysostom

[Nina]

A large part of the responsibility for a person's spiritual state lies with the family. A child's upbringing commences at the moment of its conception.On the Upbringing of Children (http://www.philokalia.org/porphyrios_children.htm)

Elder Porphyrios