Orthodox Psychotherapy, by Metr. Hierotheos Vlachos

[Adrian Martin]

Has anyone read the book Orthodox Psychotherapy by Metropolitan Hierotheos Vlachos? What do you think of it? I've heard several rave reviews of it in various places on the web, so I ordered it online.

[Herman Blaydoe]

I think it is an incredible but very dense book. Expect it to generate more questions than it answers. Be prepared to have to read it more than once, and once is a difficult read...

[Rick Henry]

'Programs' or Diakonia?


Has anyone read the book Orthodox Psychotherapy by Metropolitan Hierotheos Vlachos? What do you think of it? I've heard several rave reviews of it in various places on the web, so I ordered it online.

Dear Adrian,

Thank you for starting this thread. Here is a link for what appears to be an online version of this book for any who may be interested in this:

http://www.vic.com/~tscon/pelagia/htm/b02.en.orthodox_psychotherapy.00.htm

I have only skimmed this work online in the recent past (when Audrey tried to get her 'Theology and Psychology' thread off the ground), and am not in a position to discuss it at the present. But, based on my superficial read, I give it a 'rave review' as well. I think "nothing beats a hardback," but I do usually need at least a paperback and my different colored pens, a ruler, and different colored highliters to really take in what is being said at times. So, I will see about getting a copy too and be more than happy to discuss this with you if this thread lasts long enough for this to happen.

This book/topic speaks to the ones who confuse what is considered negatively as 'programs' in the church, with such things as diakonia. We must bring diakonia back into the congregation! Spiritual care and service comes in many forms, but as it applies to this topic, especially in our present day, there needs to be a dramatic improvement in this area as it relates to the alienated and the humiliated who sit or stand in our churches each week (not to mention those who no longer show up). To refuse to see the great need for this in the church today, and to address this situation in a real way, is to be a patron of and hold a seasons ticket in the 'theater of the absurd.' I will share with you that I received a flyer in the mail the other day from an Orthodox church in my area. This is the first fundraising/outreach event that I have seen initiated in the last three years at this church. I crumpled up the flyer so my family wouldn't see it. I hope my friends in the area don't see it on a telephone pole or in a store front window either. I think in some ways my family wonders what I have got them into as it is, and my friends who are left would be further occassioned to scratch their heads if this advertisement was seen. This flyer announced a that "Sts. XYZ church is having a "Cocktail Party!" Next week for only, $25.00 a head! This church has zero in the way of Christian Education for any who can see over the top of the bar. This church has zero in the way of diakonia for anyone. And, up until now the only outreach of any real kind was the once a year catechumen class.

So, is there a need for what is being considered in this thread?

You tell me.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I read a thread the other day that said if the bar was taken out of their church "they would lose half the congregation." Why is this? Could the 'self-medication' have anything to do with what is being considered in this work? Or, is this how the people were attracted? In the past, in other churches, we used to joke about having outreach events where we could have kegs of beer. One jester suggested that we even have a toga party (it seemed to draw a real crowd for the 'Animal House'). But, now what was considered as being absurd is reality. And, I wonder out loud now, what would the church look like if we attract new members by offering them cocktails and then telling them 'directing' them to our catechumen classes from the cocktail parties. In some cases, I wonder if they would look any different than they do now. But, one thing is for certain, there would be no less than the same degree of need for Orthodox Psychotherapy that there is now in some cases. But, I guess this is the both the statement and the question here as it relates to "An Orthodox Psychotherapy?".

<<<<<AUDREY>>>>> (shouted as 'ADRIAN' in the movie 'Rocky Part I')

"An Orthodox Psychotherapy?"

In Christ,
Rick

'Truth leading reason'

***No disclaimer on this one.


PS I just noticed your post above Herman, yes, sometimes we do need to read things more than once, very well put.

[Nina]

Has anyone read the book Orthodox Psychotherapy by Metropolitan Hierotheos Vlachos? What do you think of it? I've heard several rave reviews of it in various places on the web, so I ordered it online.

Please allow me to 2nd Herman's post.
I also have had the blessing to meet the Metropolitan and he exuded peace and love. He was so spiritual. I am at loss to find the words to describe his wonderful personality. And because I had read the book before meeting, I could see fulfilled in him, Christ's precious words that "a tree is recognized by the fruit it bears". I still have in my car the cross he gave me as a blessing.

[Father David Moser]

Has anyone read the book Orthodox Psychotherapy by Metropolitan Hierotheos Vlachos? What do you think of it? I've heard several rave reviews of it in various places on the web, so I ordered it online.

Herman's recommendation is one of the best short recommendations that I have ever read about this book. I was trained in Counseling Psychology (MA in 1985) and worked in the field for many years. (necessary disclaimer (because some people have tried to twist my words in the past) - I am not a practicing psychologist at present but I am a priest who uses what I have learned on a daily basis). Thus when Orthodox Psychotherapy first came out I grabbed it and started to read. I was both disappointed and enthralled. Disappointed since it wasn't really about what the world calls "psychotherapy" at all. Enthralled because it was a very deep and detailed discussion about the spirtual life. At the time I had considered putting together a pastoral counseling book for Orthodox clergy but needed to develop some kind of "theoretical base" from the Church. This book filled that need (my book however remains unwritten and at present there are many better qualified writers out there presenting that kind of material and so it will likely remain unwritten). If you get "bogged down" (it is a pretty dense book after all) there is a similar book called The Illness an Cure of the Soul in Orthodox Tradition that has much of the same information but presented in a less "dense" form (it is written as a discussion between Metr Hierotheos and a few people from a parish he was visiting).

Fr David Moser

[Andrew]

All of Metropolitan Hierotheos' writings are extremely edifying... I hope more of his stuff gets translated into English. Elder Joseph, Elder Sophrony (and Saint Silouan), and Metropolitan Hierotheos have basically been what I've been reading for the past few months.

[Bogdan]

I recently read the book and had to mark sections of which i needed to come back to and read again. I would try to get through the entire thing once before starting over and picking at it, if you try to do it section by section, you will have a hard time finishing. Notes always help as well.


'Programs' or Diakonia?
I read a thread the other day that said if the bar was taken out of their church "they would lose half the congregation." Why is this? Could the 'self-medication' have anything to do with what is being considered in this work? Or, is this how the people were attracted?

I was the one that said this, and i think it goes deeper than 'self-medication'. In my opinion it's a matter of habit and lack of spiritual desire. If you read my entire post I talk about how various outside influences have done their damage. Alcohol is just a staple of the church experience now. In my opinion it's beyond the advice of this particular book and would need a new type of missionary work to truly be retrified.

Hristos Voskrese,
~Bogdan

[Xenia Rose]

Herman's recommendation is one of the best short recommendations that I have ever read about this book. I was trained in Counseling Psychology (MA in 1985) and worked in the field for many years. (necessary disclaimer (because some people have tried to twist my words in the past) - I am not a practicing psychologist at present but I am a priest who uses what I have learned on a daily basis). Thus when Orthodox Psychotherapy first came out I grabbed it and started to read. I was both disappointed and enthralled. Disappointed since it wasn't really about what the world calls "psychotherapy" at all. Enthralled because it was a very deep and detailed discussion about the spirtual life. At the time I had considered putting together a pastoral counseling book for Orthodox clergy but needed to develop some kind of "theoretical base" from the Church. This book filled that need (my book however remains unwritten and at present there are many better qualified writers out there presenting that kind of material and so it will likely remain unwritten). If you get "bogged down" (it is a pretty dense book after all) there is a similar book called The Illness an Cure of the Soul in Orthodox Tradition that has much of the same information but presented in a less "dense" form (it is written as a discussion between Metr Hierotheos and a few people from a parish he was visiting).

Fr David Moser

Bless Father,

I too have a M.A. in Counseling Psychology (1988)! My Priest recommended this book to me and when I first saw it I was so very excited. I was a catechumen at the time and assumed it would deal with the application of Eastern Orthdoxy to the field of Psychology.... and it does not do this.

However, I was blessed to read the material. It left me without words. It was as if reading that book was touching nonverbal aspects of my mind and I was left speachless.

However, when that initial reaction faded, I had returned the book to the Library. (The cost of the book was too much for me so I ordered it through the interlibrary loan program.) I was left with a short episode of despondency... I was so far from the mark.. in so much need of repair... I briefly felt that it was hopeless. After a brief discussion with my Priest, I was back on track and the despondency faded into the proper mindset of humility, knowing where I am in the path but not giving up on the path I was on.... toward Christ.

I say this only to give a bit of a warning. This is a wonderful book, but read it with the blessing of your Spiritual Father and keep in touch with your Spiritual Father as you read it.

I wish that I could have been in a study group with my Priest reading the material as a group chapter by chapter. But that was not possible.

[Rick Henry]

'Dare We Hope?'




Posted by Bogdan:

I recently read the book and had to mark sections of which i needed to come back to and read again. I would try to get through the entire thing once before starting over and picking at it, if you try to do it section by section, you will have a hard time finishing. Notes always help as well.


Quotation:
Originally Posted by Rick Henry
'Programs' or Diakonia?
I read a thread the other day that said if the bar was taken out of their church "they would lose half the congregation." Why is this? Could the 'self-medication' have anything to do with what is being considered in this work? Or, is this how the people were attracted?

I was the one that said this, and i think it goes deeper than 'self-medication'. In my opinion it's a matter of habit and lack of spiritual desire. If you read my entire post I talk about how various outside influences have done their damage. Alcohol is just a staple of the church experience now. In my opinion it's beyond the advice of this particular book and would need a new type of missionary work to truly be retrified.

Hristos Voskrese,
~Bogdan

Dear Bogdan,

Great posts here, and elsewhere, I must say. Yes, I think this goes 'deeper' too. However, I am not fully persuaded that the subterraneous aspect(s) of such things as 'self-medication,' a spiritual indigence, and other varied outside influences is not addressed in this particular book, "Orthodox Psychotherapy." And, it was not lost on me, when Xenia shared above that after somewhat of a period of disappointment, over her assumptions of the book--based on the title of the book--it ultimately left her "without words," she said. And, as she continued, "It was as if reading that book was touching nonverbal aspects of my mind and I was left speechless." The words of this book took Xenia to a place of 'silence.' It is true, at times, there must be a tearing apart before there can be a sewing back together.
But, I also appreciate what you have said about this book in terms of reading through it and marking it up and making notes and then coming back through it again. Sometimes, this is necessary to avoid anything other than a superficial understanding or a misunderstanding of what is being presented . . . which even here speaks again to the deeper aspects as you say. So, I will take your advice here on this and not pick at it, with one exception. In chapter six of this work titled, "Orthodox Epistemology," there are a couple of statements in the introductory paragraphs, of this final chapter, that stand up on their own. And, they are spoken to those who use forks and knives as opposed to sippy cups, but this is okay. Because, in the end, If no solid food, such as what is in this work on "psychotherapy" ;) is ever brought to the table, then how will the immature ever learn and grow? How will there be anything other than a spiritual immaturity or poverty, and all the fun things that come with this way of living? Or, otherwise, [how] 'dare we hope' for 'a spiritual maturity?' in any place, in any culture these days, as we read and consider:




"The subject of epistemology belongs to this book, and it forms the final chapter, as it is closely connected with the cure of man's soul . . . Thus it is clear that Orthodox epistemology is closely related to the therapy of the soul."



In Christ,
Rick

"In the End, the Beginning"

[Father David Moser]

' However, I am not fully persuaded that the subterraneous aspect(s) of such things as 'self-medication,' a spiritual indigence, and other varied outside influences is not addressed in this particular book, "Orthodox Psychotherapy."

There is one good book that I can recommend that deals with passionate addictions (including alcohol) is "Breaking the Chains of Addiction Through the Orthodox Faith" by Victor Mihailoff (published in the US by Regina). Since such addictions often are involved with the practice of "self medicating" this might be a worthwhile read for those who are interested or coping with such things.

Fr David Moser

[Bogdan]

Rick,

I completely agree that this DOES go deeper. I especially enjoyed your quotation of the book and how you used it to get at your point. I also enjoyed this chapter and have tried to apply such things to my personal life. It is good every once in a while to "heap your plate" and try to eat as much as you can!!

However, I still can not help but feal that this book is too wide ranging and encompassing to be significant for practical applications such as this alcohol issue. We are talking about 50 years of ingraned habit that has left not even a SINGLE church untouched. I can not help but stress this point. How then can a book based on so much INDIVIDUAL reflection be used to make an entire ethnic group (i.e. Serbs) reflect on itself?? I know i could not make any of them read the book itself...

I think the book is great if your looking to open your mind to it's concepts, but as for practical applications on a scale greater than 1 person....not so applicable.

Hristos Voskrese,
~Bogdan

[Rick Henry]

I think the book is great if your looking to open your mind to it's concepts, but as for practical applications on a scale greater than 1 person....not so applicable.

Hristos Voskrese,
~Bogdan




Dear Bogdan,

Thank you for your kind words. It appears that we are on the same page here. I defer to you on the remainder of this book. Hopefully, I will get to work with you in another thread in the future. :)


In Christ,
Rick

[Paul Cowan]

There is one good book that I can recommend that deals with passionate addictions (including alcohol) is "Breaking the Chains of Addiction Through the Orthodox Faith" by Victor Mihailoff (published in the US by Regina). Since such addictions often are involved with the practice of "self medicating" this might be a worthwhile read for those who are interested or coping with such things.

Fr David Moser

Might I also recommend on this line Steps of Transformation by Fr. Meletios Webber?

PC

[Bogdan]

gentlemen,

I plan on checking out both of those books! Thank you for your recommendations!!

[Owen Jones]

I there were a true free market in psychotherapy and psychiatry (i.e. without insurance subsidies and government subsidies) these quack practices would have died out long ago. They do far more harm to people than good. On the other hand, our precious faith is hiding its light under a basket...

Too often we focus on the extreme cases, whereas true Orthodox "psychotherapy" begins with the proper raising of children, on through the proper development of the psyche through adulthood, so that we do not create, by default, generations of psychotics. Much if not most paranoid/psychotic behavior doesn't start out that way. It starts with cultural, familial influences, and minor temptations that burgeon into big ones until full blown demonic possession takes over. I would love to hear one intelligent sermon on the little, gradual steps that our patient enemy uses to take full possession of our souls.