Coca Cola and food sacrificed to idols

[M. Markewich]

Tonight some friends and I were approached by a girl who represented the campus group Killer Coke. They believe that Coca Cola commits crimes against humanity in countries like Colombia, where they once ordered paramilitary troops to assassinate union leaders. Wikipedia said the same thing. Now admittedly, I don't know where to look to find out for certain about Coke, but am I right that if Coke really is supporting these things that it would be wrong to drink? Wouldn't it be like what Saint Paul said, that when we eat food offered to idols and we know it, we are sinning?

[Paul Fowler]

Nestle products might come under the same heading-the anti Nestle campaign seems to have faded in recent years.

Nestle apparently tell third world mothers that Nestle powdered milk is better for babies than mother's milk. Unfortunately powdered milk needs reconstituting with water which is OK in the West where water is purified but in many third world countries water is not so clean, it has apparently led to deaths among babies


Paul

[Herman Blaydoe]

Wikipedia is NOT an authoritative source. Anybody can add anything, so don't make any decisions based on what you find there. It is a good starting point perhaps, but certainly NOT a sole source. Get corroborating information from a source you trust.

Beyond that, I stopped drinking Coca-cola and most soft drinks years ago, except the occasional ginger beer or ginger ale since ginger beer is hard to find around here.

Green tea is a much healthier source of caffiene. But hey, that's just me.

[John Charmley]

Misreading the title, I thought it referred to Coca cola being sacrificed to idols. It seemed a suitably tacky end to the stuff - and seeing what it does to your teeth enamel, I imagined that it would do the idol no good either. Few things appeared more probable that an article to that effect had appeared on Wikipedia - that utterly reliable source of half-truths.

But alas, it was just another story about stories about activism and multinationals. Still, sacrificing Coca Cola is still better for you than drinking it, I suspect. Secretly it is one of the mean reasons for European anti-Americanism - they know its bad but are hooked. Just voting Democrat won't be enough - you know it's true - it's on the Wiki!

INXC,

John

[Antony Solomon]

The trouble with avoiding certain products is how pervasive such multinaitonals are. I don't drink Coke anymore, or related products produced by them; I try to avoid Nestle, but they own almost everything chocolate wise, and I don't go in Macdonalds (it's not all american, see). But at the end of the day, we have to take Paul's advice about our conscience, since we live in a world under the power of sin, and would have to live like Antony to avoid things completely - although his bread was grown by sinners I guess ;)

[Paul Fowler]

It reminds me of the time I was employed by our local Social
Services and I was working with a elderly Sikh couple who all of a sudden stood in front of their pictures of the Sikh teachers (cant remember the technical term) and chanted something and then offered up a bowl of sweets to the Sikh teachers.

They then offered me one of the sweets, and seemed quiet put out when I refused!!!

Paul

[Theophrastus]

It reminds me of the time I was employed by our local Social
Services and I was working with a elderly Sikh couple who all of a sudden stood in front of their pictures of the Sikh teachers (cant remember the technical term) and chanted something and then offered up a bowl of sweets to the Sikh teachers.

They then offered me one of the sweets, and seemed quiet put out when I refused!!!

Paul

Interesting. The Sikhs don't consider their teachers (or Gurus) as deities, or Gods. Most likely, offering foods in front of pictures of their teachers was simply an Asian way of offering respect, and not 'sacrificing food to idols'.

[Fr Seraphim (Black)]

Interesting. The Sikhs don't consider their teachers (or Gurus) as deities, or Gods. Most likely, offering foods in front of pictures of their teachers was simply an Asian way of offering respect, and not 'sacrificing food to idols'.

As we live in a totally fallen world, the following is a monastic practice, which the laity can also partake of: we always make the sign of the Cross before partaking of anything. Thus, before drinking a glass of water, I make the sign of the Cross etc. In the morning, if I am not partaking of Holy Communion, it is our tradition to take a small piece of antidoron and blessed water from Theophany. At the end of the day, after my Prayer Rule I make the sign of the Cross over my bed and Cross myself before falling asleep.

As for Sikhs - when I was in India I stayed three days and three nights in the hostel (for pilgrims) at the Golden Temple in Amritsar, in the Punjab. I found them to be extremely kind. They would not accept any money. They feed literally thousands of pilgrims (for free) three times per day. This very same practice they continue here in Canada. Though it is well over 35 years since I have been in India, I was there for two years and no matter where I was, I never once locked the door of my room.

Throughout my travels, I found that the poorer the people were, the more generous their hospitality. Romania and Moldova which are the poorest countries in Europe, are abundant in generosity.

Sadly, in Canada, everyone is extremely protective of even their front lawns, or the part of the driveway that opens onto the road. Numerous times I have been called to task for 'trespassing' on someone's driveway!

There is definitely something astray in North American culture!

[M. Markewich]

Wikipedia is NOT an authoritative source. Anybody can add anything, so don't make any decisions based on what you find there. It is a good starting point perhaps, but certainly NOT a sole source. Get corroborating information from a source you trust.
I agree, which is why I am going to keep drinking. I just wanted to know that if I found out it was true, would it be wrong to drink?


But at the end of the day, we have to take Paul's advice about our conscience, since we live in a world under the power of sin, and would have to live like Antony to avoid things completely - although his bread was grown by sinners I guess ;)
This is a good point. You really can never get food from clean hands.

[Paul Fowler]

Interesting. The Sikhs don't consider their teachers (or Gurus) as deities, or Gods. Most likely, offering foods in front of pictures of their teachers was simply an Asian way of offering respect, and not 'sacrificing food to idols'.

Thank you for that, I was unaware.


Paul

[M.C. Steenberg]

Misreading the title, I thought it referred to Coca cola being sacrificed to idols.

Interesting, as I, also misreading the title, thought momentarily that there was suggestion that Coca Cola was being made out of ingredients formerly sacrificed to idols.

One gets to expect anything these days...

INXC, Matthew

[Kris]

I just wanted to know that if I found out it was true, would it be wrong to drink?


I think this is an issue that has to be left up to the individual's conscience.

Its noble to boycott a product in order to distance oneself from the immoral actions of its producers, but I believe you'd be forced to grow your own crops if you wanted to be totally consistent. Such is the nature of consumerism unfortunately.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Interesting, as I, also misreading the title, thought momentarily that there was suggestion that Coca Cola was being made out of ingredients formerly sacrificed to idols.

One gets to expect anything these days...

INXC, Matthew

A couple of days ago some of my parishioners were telling me that when they first arrived in Canada right after the War when they saw the Coca Cola sign, being Russian they thought it said Sosa Sola.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Father David Moser]

when they saw the Coca Cola sign, being Russian they thought it said Sosa Sola.

Not unlike the toddler in a previous parish who was just learning to read both English and Russian. As they passed one of his favorite toy stores he pointed to the sign and said to his parents "Look -Toys Ya Us!"

Fr David Moser

[Kusanagi]

What you just said sounds more like something being mixed with political problems rather than a pagan sacrifice.

[Shaun Little]

Interesting. The Sikhs don't consider their teachers (or Gurus) as deities, or Gods. Most likely, offering foods in front of pictures of their teachers was simply an Asian way of offering respect, and not 'sacrificing food to idols'.
I have just asked my Sikh friends at the local shop if they consider their teachers as gods ,to which ,they replied in the affirmative. They do believe that they are offering food to a deity-albeit a lesser form. I think it is most correct for a Christian to refuse such idolatry .

[Silouan Howard]

I had to sort through this topic when I became Orthodox, because the Hare Krishna temple here in Dallas has a wonderful vegetarian restaraunt that I enjoyed (and cheap too!). However, I became aware that the food was offered to Kalamachandji as a love offering. To be safe, I dont eat there. I have enough demons to fight and dont want to add to their legions. So I will take the safer road of abstinence.

[Eric Peterson]

I think we've missed the whole Pauline context of eating meat sacrificed to idols. You can't easily separate something from the historical context without losing a lot of the original meaning.

In the ancient world, meat was not eaten in such quantity as it is in modern Western countries. It was more precious, and as such, it was offered in sacrifice to deities. The Israelites did the same, giving animals as sacrifice to God, and that which was not assigned as God's portion was consumed by the priests and the people.

When St. Paul was working in largely pagan Greece, meat was sacrificed to the gods. It was hard to get around this unless one owned one's own livestock, which I imagine was not a common practice amongst St. Paul's urbanized Christians. St. Paul writes about the freedom to eat meat sacrificed to idols since such a thing cannot pollute the meat if it is consumed with thanksgiving to God--since God is the giver and provider of the meat, and not some idol. But St. Paul says that, for the sake of the weaker brethren, he will refuse to eat meat sacrificed to idols. It's for the sake of love that he keeps from eating.

Now, speaking of Coca-cola, even if such things are true, they do not add up to a sacrifice to idols. Everything in creation is polluted by sin in some way. Only by the mercy and kindness of God does anything even grow and mature anymore.

[Mikhail R.]

I have just asked my Sikh friends at the local shop if they consider their teachers as gods ,to which ,they replied in the affirmative. They do believe that they are offering food to a deity-albeit a lesser form. I think it is most correct for a Christian to refuse such idolatry .


I'd like to point out that Sikhism is a Dharmic religion, and therefore cannot be accurately compared to European and Near Eastern Idolatry. In Western Idolatry, the "gods" are fundamentally different from non-deities, and normally personal entities. Offering food to Ba'al, for instance, is like offering to you. You are inherently different from me, so I can choose to, or to not, offer food to you. In this context, it completely possible for one to avoid eating food offered to idols.

Dharmic religions are different, as they are based on philosophies that were, to great extent, absent from the culture in which the writers of the Bible lived. In Dharmic faiths, the ultimate reality is impersonal. Furthermore, the monistic mindset of prevailing Indian philosophy dictates that all existence is God. Any distinctions perceived are a result of maya (illusion, more or less the Dharmic equivalent of prani/prelest). Holiness is largely based on how much one realises this, and throws off this delusion. As a person becomes holier, the glory of God become more manifest through their life. It is this manifestation of divinity that is venerated. Although "worship" is often used, this is used loosely, as in archaic English. Although the terminology they use makes it seem like their honouring of the Sikh Guru is like our worship of God, a more in-depth look reveals that it is much closer to our concept of veneration. The veneration is given to the Guru because of the manifestation of the Divine that occurs through his person and life. Therefore, I don't think Paul's directives can be blindly applied to Dharmic practices.

Furthermore, I'd point out that all people are seen as manifesting divinity on some level in Dharmic cultures. This is precisely why Sikhs and other Indians are so nice to guests. It is seen as an act of venerating God. So, there is no way to take food from them without it having been involved in some form of veneration. If the Dharmic concept of veneration renders food sinful to Christians, then it would sinful to eat ANYTHING from a follower of a Dharmic religion. I advise that you never go to India. You'd be the only Christian willfully committing suicide by starvation, just because you want to avoid imagined idolatry. :P This is a good example of the dangers of ethnocentrism.

The Dharmic concept of God being manifest in all, and how this relates to the treatment of others, is most closely related to the concept of humans being the icons of God. It is because of our status as icons, that withholding food, drink, clothing, etc. from the needy is like withholding food, drink, clothing, etc. from Christ. Likewise, it is because of our status as icons, that giving food, drink, clothing, etc. to the needy is like giving food, drink, clothing, etc. to Christ. Our love for mankind is, in a sense, an a act of veneration. The Dharmic view is more-or-less the same, though the language they use often blurs the line between creature and creator to an extent.

[Effie Ganatsios]

We don't drink coca cola for various reasons - health mainly.

But it is really good for something though.

There is an English programme on TV that I sometimes watch - two women and their crew clean absolutely filthy houses.

They also give the audience cleaning tips.

If your toilet is really dirty (as most of the ones in this programme seem to be) pour a bottle of coca cola in it at night. The next morning, flush, and hey presto, you have a beautifully clean, sparkling toilet bowl.

If Coca Cola can do this, imagine what it does to our teeth and to our insides!

Regarding international companies and their products :

Most European companies now have factories in countries where the people are paid minimal wages.

Most electrical appliances are made in China, where I have read that even prisoners are used in the factories, without being paid anything at all. I don't know whether this is true or not but it is what I have read.

It is no longer possible to know where a certain product has been made and under what conditions.

Perhaps, one of the good things to result from this economic recession we are going through is that people will start buying locally made products, or even making them themselves, as they did in the past.

There was a documentary a couple of days ago about villages in the mountains of Greece that have only 50 or so inhabitants during winter (in summer the young people come back to spend their time there during their holidays).

One old man told the reporter that everything has changed so much in the last 50 years that he still has trouble believing it. He said that he remembered when people were absolutely independent and made whatever they needed. The women spun and wove their own material and then made it into clothing for themselves and their families.

Some items needed to be bought, but they were very few.

We now pay high prices for items that perhaps other people have suffered for.

You cannot turn back time obviously, but, as far as possible, you can be careful of what you buy.

Effie

[Nina]

We don't drink coca cola for various reasons - health mainly.

But it is really good for something though.

There is an English programme on TV that I sometimes watch - two women and their crew clean absolutely filthy houses.

They also give the audience cleaning tips.

If your toilet is really dirty (as most of the ones in this programme seem to be) pour a bottle of coca cola in it at night. The next morning, flush, and hey presto, you have a beautifully clean, sparkling toilet bowl.

If Coca Cola can do this, imagine what it does to our teeth and to our insides!

Effie

There was a similar email I received some time ago in which CC was used by the police to clean blood from accidents sites, or to unclog and so on...

[Owen Jones]

Let's be clear about what St. Paul is saying. He is saying that idol worship and idol sacrifice is ridiculous. That we as Christians should know better. For the man of faith to eat foods that have been the part of ritual sacrifice to idols in no way endangers our faith, because we are not eating it with the idolatry in mind. However, we must be mindful of those who lack understanding and who, having witnessed us eat such food, might misinterpret our actions as somehow condoning idol worship, which would confuse them and undermine their faith. I would rather never eat meat again than be the cause of another man's downfall. That's the gist of it.