Living in one place if possible?

[Anna K.]

Christ is risen!

I have a habit of occasionally writing down the words from the Fathers from the front page here. Some time ago there was a word by St Antony the Great:

"Someone asked Abba Antony: 'What must one do in order to please God?' The old man replied: 'Pay attention to what I tell you: Whoever you may be, always have God before your eyes, whatever you do, do it according to the testimony of the Scriptures; in whatever place you live, do not easily leave it.
Keep these three precepts and you will be saved.'"

I was astonished at this last point, when I read it, that staying in the place you live (if possible) is one of the means to be saved, along with keeping God before one's eyes and doing things according to the scriptures.

I thought it was beautiful, but how little we hear this these days! At least in my country moving around is the way of life...

There was a time when I "heard" in this "stay in the church you were born into", but hopefully he doesn't mean that, if the person is not in the Orthodox Church to begin with.

Assuming he means a place to live, can someone point to why it is good to stay, why he sees it so important.

In Christ,
Anna

[Antonios]

Assuming he means a place to live, can someone point to why it is good to stay, why he sees it so important.


Hi Anna,

Indeed He is risen!

I believe the point St. Anthony is making is one involving obedience and trust in God's will. That is, submitting ourselves, our entire existence to God's will, and not to our own. Another saying from the Fathers describe how a plant will not grow if it keeps getting uprooted and replanted. The circumstances we are in, and the trials we face are known better to God than we know ourselves. When we submit to 'His will be done' through the ascetic practice of patience and faith, (instead of changing scenery or circumstances every time life seems a bit difficult), we will grow in virtue, not unlike certain trees which grow faster and with stronger roots if they remain in one place and endure the storms and winds that shake them.

[Anna K.]

Antonios,
Thank you for your reply!

You put it so clearly and beautifully, is he your patron Saint? And it would make sense he is not speaking concretely about a place to live after all, but about general obedience and trust in God, of course he would.

Or maybe both...

In Christ,
Anna

[Mary]

Antonios,
Thank you for your reply!

You put it so clearly and beautifully, is he your patron Saint? And it would make sense he is not speaking concretely about a place to live after all, but about general obedience and trust in God, of course he would.

Or maybe both...

In Christ,
Anna


I think he's talking about an actual place. Mostly because I've seen such a great deal of discontent in people about where they live - especially if they live in a 'third world' country and think they'd live better if they were in America. I recently heard of a family that sold the most valuable of their possessions to be able to afford to send in an application to imigrate to the US. They're applications was denied, and they had nothing to go home to. Was it worth it?

And then, there's the unrealistic expectation of what a country like America has to offer to them. I've seen people who were surprised to find places in America that were dirty! Mostly, it's the loneliness that 'kills' them. And the fact that they actually have to work to make a living and not all work pays enough to let you live like a millionaire.

And then, I've seen others who have no concern for foreign lands and their dreams. They live their lives in the midst of their hardships, never expecting to leave their homes. Just getting through each day, getting water, preparing meals and making a living, takes up all of their time. They have no computers to e-mail their friends, they have no phones, many don't have electicity and water. They cook on coals and firewood. But they're happy. You'd think they're millionaires. They have nothing to complain about.

I think God has equipped everyone so they can live in the places where they grow up. We lived among people who had to dig in the river bed for their water. They had no equippment to filter their water with and even boiling their water all the time, was not possible. We would've died with just one mouthful of that water, and yet, they were physically stronger than us. They could walk miles and miles in a day, in the hot sun, carrying stuff to sell in the market and I'd get worn out riding for two hours in the hot car. They didn't have a variety of things to eat, they were thankful if they had anything to eat at all. All that grew in that merciless land was corn and another grain called sorghum. And that's all they ate. No vegetables, no fruit (till someone brought in some bananas, which took off like a weed), no dairy, no meat. Healthy, well balanced diet? For them, yes.

The first Christian man in that tribe died an early death, due to heart problems - unheard of in their tribe - he had learned to eat like us.

And then, of course there's that verse that I really like: Acts 17:26-27

"From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us."


Even the place where I live, is important to my salvation!

In Christ,
Mary.

[Nina]

Even the place where I live, is important to my salvation!

In Christ,
Mary.

Christ is Risen!

I agree with the above, however I tend to believe something else. For the simple reason that sometimes the Fathers speak about things inspired by the Holy Spirit and it may be different from what is conventional to us.

I have heard that
in whatever place you live, do not easily leave it
means the way of life you are in - as in monasticism, or marriage. Also the place as a spiritual achievement not to be abandoned (for instance if I do not gossip, or slander, I should not allow outside temptations to force me to abandon that place of spiritual achievement) etc.

A literal reading of that saying would be a contradiction because Christ traveled since he was a baby, Abraham was called out of his fatherland for the fulfillment of God's plan; Apostles traveled and enlightened the gentiles etc. Church history is filled with such examples of migration that were spiritually beneficial in a personal and national level. So, Mary, I think you are right that even the place where we live, is important to our salvation, however God leads people wherever He wills for the salvation of the world.

[Mary]

I have heard that means the way of life you are in - as in monasticism, or marriage. Also the place as a spiritual achievement not to be abandoned (for instance if I do not gossip, or slander, I should not allow outside temptations to force me to abandon that place of spiritual achievement) etc.

A literal reading of that saying would be a contradiction because Christ traveled since he was a baby, Abraham was called out of his fatherland for the fulfillment of God's plan; Apostles traveled and enlightened the gentiles etc. Church history is filled with such examples of migration that were spiritually beneficial in a personal and national level. So, Mary, I think you are right that even the place where we live, is important to our salvation, however God leads people wherever He wills for the salvation of the world.

Yes, of course, I had forgotten about monasticism and marriage. That is linked to being content where you are.

I'm not so sure I can be content with my 'spritual achievements' though. Although I have a feeling I slightly understand what you mean. I used to watch these shows on TV that continue from 'season' to 'season'. They're highly addictive. But for some reason I find myself unaddicted right now. However, if I start losing sight of my priorities and finding myself to become listless and despondent, then I could very easily 'numb' myself by watching those shows again. Is that sort of what you had in mind? I think it would be dangerous for me if I find myself getting content with the fact that I don't watch TV anymore. That's a sure way of breeding pride and I'll stop watching out for those thoughts and feelings that want to be entertained by TV.

As for Christ and the Apostles and many others who travel - they had to because that's the life they were called to. Same with military families and other such folks that due to the nature of their employment, do not stay in one place for long. And they need to learn to be content in being uprooted constantly.

In Christ,
Mary

[Nina]

Yes, of course, I had forgotten about monasticism and marriage. That is linked to being content where you are.

There is more to that. :)


I'm not so sure I can be content with my 'spritual achievements' though.He says stay in the place you are. He does not mention being content.


Although I have a feeling I slightly understand what you mean. I used to watch these shows on TV that continue from 'season' to 'season'. They're highly addictive. But for some reason I find myself unaddicted right now. However, if I start losing sight of my priorities and finding myself to become listless and despondent, then I could very easily 'numb' myself by watching those shows again. Is that sort of what you had in mind?No. It is: I do not gossip at this point = do not leave this place = do not go back to the place of sin: gossiping. Progress towards 'divine justice'.


I think it would be dangerous for me if I find myself getting content with the fact that I don't watch TV anymore. That's a sure way of breeding pride and I'll stop watching out for those thoughts and feelings that want to be entertained by TV. There is nothing about being content and having pride if one follows the maxim: Know thyself. Of course those can intertwine and cause a person's fall, but they do not have to - that means stay where you are (do not go back to sin).


As for Christ and the Apostles and many others who travel - they had to because that's the life they were called to. Yes exactly, because it was God's will. Nothing happens in our world without His will and permission. Remember? Not even a hair would fall from our head without His will. :)

L,
N

[Alex Haig]

I think the point here about those who travelled around is that they did so under the authority of the Church: they were sent rather than just deciding of themselves to go.

With love in the Risen Christ

Alex