A guide for altar servers

[David Dietrich]

As a project for my theology course I'm composing a guide for altar servers. In it I hope to clearly and briefly outline how to serve (how to do processions, when censers are needed, how to do the various necessary duties) and some of the basic theological meaning of the altar and serving in it.

I have about ten years of experience serving in the altar myself and have an understanding of services of the Church (their structure and how they are put together etc.) so I have a great deal of practical/informal knowledge about the altar and serving in it.

However, my resources dealing with the formal aspects of serving, particularly the rubrics/choreography of processions, are more scanty than I could wish. Does any kind soul on here have resources for those kinds of things? I've been told the typikon has them but I don't read Slavonic.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Mr Dietrich,

Welcome to the Discussion Community, and thanks for your initial post. A good handbook for service in the altar is important. There are various of these about, including:

On-line:
St Luke's Church (OCA) has a guide for altar servers (http://www.stlukeorthodox.com/html/misc/altarservers.cfm) which includes their local practices (which I've not examined), including many diagrams, directions, etc.Printed materials:
From the OCA, An Altar Server's Guide to the Liturgies series (https://secure.oca.org/ocpc/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=439).
Others from the altar servers section at Orthodox Christian Books (http://shop.orthodoxbooks.co.uk/store/listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=4388) (UK).Probably the best way to carry forward here is for you (or others) to ask specific questions about certain aspects of the service, as I am certain there is a wealth of information available from members of the forum.

INXC, Matthew

[David Dietrich]

Thank you very much, these materials are quite helpful.

As to specific questions, the main thing I'm wondering about is where the servers are placed during entrances and processions. In my church during the Small Entrance the candles stand just off the altar dais facing the iconostasis, one in front of the icon of Christ and one in front of the Theotokos. The two fans remain on the dais and, after the priest blesses the Royal Doors, hold their fans over the gospel book (we have no deacon in our church) until we all return in to the altar. Once in, all four servers line up at either corner of the High Place and bow to the icon of Christ and then we turn and bow the priest after which we replace our candles and fans.
During the Great Entrance the fans stand in the nave next to the candles and the censer is carried by a server (though, of course, not swung) in the center until the priest turns to the people before entering the altar. After this entrance we do not usually bow the icon of Christ or to the priest.

I'm assuming that during entrances all the servers should remain on the altar dais if there was room, but in our church there isn't. But this is an assumption and I would prefer to see it written down somewhere in a set of rules for such things.

Another question is, how are servers arranged during processions? Do the candles always go first? When does the cross lead? Should the procession be in single file or two abrest when there's room?

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Mr Dietrich,

Thank you for the recent post. There is no hard-and-fast rule on some of the matters about which you ask; some of this is local custom, and varies from place to place (i.e. it's not set out strictly in a universal typikon). But there are some practices which are more or less standard.

You wrote:


the main thing I'm wondering about is where the servers are placed during entrances and processions. In my church during the Small Entrance the candles stand just off the altar dais facing the iconostasis, one in front of the icon of Christ and one in front of the Theotokos. The two fans remain on the dais and, after the priest blesses the Royal Doors, hold their fans over the gospel book (we have no deacon in our church) until we all return in to the altar.

The usual custom for the little entrance is that the servers depart out the north door and process directly around the base of the ambon (dais) until they are standing behind the central icon of the Church (i.e. on its east side), if that be located towards the front, or until they are centrally positioned in front of the holy doors. If there are only one or two servers (one carrying candle; or one carrying the candle and another the censer), they stand before the ambon, centrally, facing the holy doors (there is no strict pattern I have discerned to who stands on which side; this appears to vary by local practice). If it is a fuller procession, with two additional servers bearing the fans, these normally will re-ascend the ambon and take their places to either side of the holy doors, facing inward towards one another.

Once the entrance has been made and the priest has given the blessing for the servers to re-enter the sanctuary, the normal order would be for the two fan-bearers to enter first, each through one of the deacon's doors (since they are already closest to them), and the candle- and censer-bearer each follow one of the fan-bearers. As the two pairs re-enter through each of the deacon's doors and move to the High Place behind the altar, this results in the two fan-bearers being located centrally, side-by-side, which suits well given that the fans are often stored behind the altar.


Once in, all four servers line up at either corner of the High Place and bow to the icon of Christ and then we turn and bow the priest after which we replace our candles and fans.This is the most common practice, yes. It is regrettable that too often the servers forget to reverence the High Place on returning to the sanctuary.


During the Great Entrance the fans stand in the nave next to the candles and the censer is carried by a server (though, of course, not swung) in the center until the priest turns to the people before entering the altar. After this entrance we do not usually bow the icon of Christ or to the priest.There is a variance in practice in the Russian tradition, as to whether (or when) the great entrance is made in such a manner as to extend into the centre of the nave and go 'round the west side of the central icon, or whether it follows a shorter route and involves only the ambon.

There is a wide variety of practice in terms of the precise order in this procession. The fans were originally intended to 'cover' the gifts, and as such likely would have surrounded them in the entrance; but this is no longer the common practice, and generally the censer-bearer follows the candle-bearers, and he is followed by the fan-bearers, followed by the clergy bearing the gifts.


...until the priest turns to the people before entering the altar.It is actually a common misperception, that the priest turns to or blessed 'the people' here (as at the end of the little entrance, and indeed all such entrances). The priest is in fact explicitly turning to the servers and blessing them to re-enter the sanctuary. As such, there is no reason for the faithful in the nave to bow to the priest when he does this: it is a specific blessing being given by the priest to the servers, giving them leave to re-enter (the priest turns and blesses them with the sign of the cross; if it is a hierarchical celebration, he turns and bows only to the servers, since the blessing is in fact the bishop's).


I'm assuming that during entrances all the servers should remain on the altar dais if there was room, but in our church there isn't. But this is an assumption and I would prefer to see it written down somewhere in a set of rules for such things.Again, this varies fairly heavily - and space is a determining factor in many parishes. The 'ideal' - i.e., if space were no item - itself varies, but the closest to a standard I have experienced is that the fan-bearers would ascend the ambon and stand to the sides of the clergy; but the candle-bearers would remain at the foot of the ambon, facing the holy doors.

If the service is not hierarchical (i.e. served by a priest with no bishop), the censer-bearer will normally stay at the foot of the ambon with the candle-bearers. If the bishop is present, he must move around the north side of the ambon and ascend it, to be at the right hand of the holy doors, where the bishop stands, as he censes the gifts twice during the commemorations of the entrance.


Another question is, how are servers arranged during processions? Do the candles always go first? When does the cross lead? Should the procession be in single file or two abrest when there's room?When the cross is involved in the procession, it generally always leads. But the cross is not generally in the usual processions of the little and great entrances, except on feasts where it is appointed.

Candles normally lead (or, if the cross leads, follow directly behind the cross). If the procession is festal (i.e. not a procession of the Liturgy, but, e.g., a procession around the church in Holy Week), the choir follows the candles, in front of the censer-bearer and the clergy.

Whether the servers in the procession travel single-file or two-abreast depends entirely on the number of servers involved, space, and local practice.


All that being said, it's important to note that I am describing here a kind of ideal 'standard' - but it is far from universal. I would most welcome notes on variations in other practices.

INXC, Matthew

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Matthew wrote:


All that being said, it's important to note that I am describing here a kind of ideal 'standard' - but it is far from universal. I would most welcome notes on variations in other practices.

Yes, there's an interesting difference from what you describe. In our parish and in my previous experience (6 years at a Skete in Canada, 6 years at St Tikhon's Monastery in Pa) I have never seen the censer carried by a server at any of the entrances either at Vigil or Liturgy.

I just checked The Divine Liturgy- A General Guide for Altar Servers (published with the blessing of His Grace Bishop Hilarion) and also there's no mention of the servers carrying the censer during either of the Entrances.

This is an interesting difference as I think we both are in churches following the Russian tradition. Maybe Fr David has seen this practice or has some comments on it?

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[M.C. Steenberg]

Indeed! The censer doesn't properly figure in the little entrance. The practice of a server carrying it in the great entrance arose, I suspect, from the lack of deacons, since it is properly the deacon who carries the censer in this procession (over his shoulder, according to most rubrics). If there is no deacon present at a service with only one priest, it is not wholly unusual for the censer to be given to a server to carry.

[Nina]

It is actually a common misperception, that the priest turns to or blessed 'the people' here (as at the end of the little entrance, and indeed all such entrances). The priest is in fact explicitly turning to the servers and blessing them to re-enter the sanctuary. As such, there is no reason for the faithful in the nave to bow to the priest when he does this: it is a specific blessing being given by the priest to the servers, giving them leave to re-enter (the priest turns and blesses them with the sign of the cross; if it is a hierarchical celebration, he turns and bows only to the servers, since the blessing is in fact the bishop's).

INXC, Matthew

Wow. Thank you for the info here, but especially this. I had no idea about it.

[Paul Cowan]

In my parish where I serve as the "cat herder" (sorry, it feels that way sometimes) We do some things as Matthew describes and a little differently too.

When it is time for a movement the servers pick up their devices from the stand behind the alter and form a spearhead shape with the cross as the point closest to the alter then the candles flanking him then the fans flanking the candles. As the priest begins to move the servers then move toward the N door

For the little entrance, and depending on how many servers I have, the Cross leads then two candles followed by the Deacon then the priests then the fans. We all exit the N door and proceed roughly 2 abreast to the icon table in the center of the church, bow and take opposing sides of the aisle as the Deacon and priests approach the Holy Doors. The Cross is on the Christ side opposing no one. The candles and fans oppose their counterpart.

For the Epistle and gospel we follow the same plan except the reader takes the place of the deacon and priest as they stay behind the alter. The reader does not re-enter the S door but replaces the Epistles on the Throne and returns to the Choir area.

For the Great Entrance, it is the same plan again except that a server, me, carries the censor walking backwards behind the candles. I face the Deacon who is followed by the priests and then the fans. My challenge is the pace of the cross who dictates if I step on the heels of the candle who I cannot see as I am walking backwards. I have not tripped yet, thank God. As we come to the icon before the Holy Doors, the Cross is now on the Theotokos side so I can take the position on the Christ side. As the priest enters the Holy Doors with the Gifts, I immediately enter the S door so he can use the censor.

Before the servers enter the S door for any of the 3 movements, they always bow before the Holy Doors then enter the S door. They then put away their devices which have a holding stand behind the alter.

This is how it is in my parish. I would be interested in seeing the finished product of your work. Regardless of what actually is in print, my priest is still the one directing the service. So unless we are way off base with other Antiochians, our local customs will stand.

Additional rubrics change seasonal movements, but these 3 entrances don't seem to ever deviate. I hope this helps you.

PC

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

An interesting variation here also. In the Russian tradition the cross is only taken as part of the outdoor procession (крестний ход) not at the Entrances of the services.

In Christ- Fr Raphael


Paul Cowan wrote:



When it is time for a movement the servers pick up their devices from the stand behind the alter and form a spearhead shape with the cross as the point closest to the alter then the candles flanking him then the fans flanking the candles. As the priest begins to move the servers then move toward the N door

For the little entrance, and depending on how many servers I have, the Cross leads then two candles followed by the Deacon then the priests then the fans. We all exit the N door and proceed roughly 2 abreast to the icon table in the center of the church, bow and take opposing sides of the aisle as the Deacon and priests approach the Holy Doors. The Cross is on the Christ side opposing no one. The candles and fans oppose their counterpart.


For the Great Entrance, it is the same plan again except that a server, me, carries the censor walking backwards behind the candles. I face the Deacon who is followed by the priests and then the fans. My challenge is the pace of the cross who dictates if I step on the heels of the candle who I cannot see as I am walking backwards. I have not tripped yet, thank God. As we come to the icon before the Holy Doors, the Cross is now on the Theotokos side so I can take the position on the Christ side. As the priest enters the Holy Doors with the Gifts, I immediately enter the S door so he can use the censor.

[David Dietrich]

This is very helpful for me, thank "ya'll" again. :)

I suppose I should have mentioned this earlier but my Church is in the OCA (following the Russian typikon), is in Mississippi and under Archbishop Dimitri.

For many years for the Great Entrance we processessed from the north door (of course) around the church to the front of the iconostasis then the priest would bless the servers (a very interesting point!) and we would continue in the south door and put up our accoutraments.

We do not take the censer for the Little Entrance, only two candles and two fans (when we have enough servers) but a server does always take the censer for the Great Entrance, although he acts in the processession like a fan.

During both processions, our candles always exit and enter the Altar first. I am curious as to a couple other points though; first, is it standard practice for the fan-bearers to "cover" the Holy Gifts at the Great Entrance or not? In my church they cover the Gospel at the Little Entrance but not the Gifts at the Great Entrance, this seems somewhat inconsistent. I just forgot what the second thing was so it must wait.

I have read also (in "The Law of God" by Archpriest Seraphim Slobodskoy) that the deacons usually hold the fans over the Gifts at the Consecration but I have never seen this done anywhere, is it another antiquated practice which has sadly fallen into disuse?

Finally, the practices for when the servers bow and where to seems to vary almost randomly from place to place. We only bow to the High Place and the Priest after entering the Altar at the Little Entrance but I have seen others bow the High Place when the servers first line up for the Entrances and in still other places the servers bow to the Altar when outside before going in after an Entrance. It would seem that consistency would call for a bow to the High Place and Priest before both the Little and Great Entrances and a bow to the Altar before re-entering at both Entrances.

Mr. Cowan:
It's very nice to hear from a fellow "cat-herder" as you call it :)
I'm assuming the Antiochians follow the Greek practices which may account for some notable differences in our processions. Nevertheless, your information is most helpful.

In all your processions I note that, if I understand it correctly, the servers form an isle facing one another through which the priests/deacons pass or stand during the prayers. In our practice, we always face the iconostasis. Also, we never come out unless the priest does meaning that there is no procession at the epistle. Our reader comes out of choir with the epistle book, comes into the Altar (south door) to recieve a blessing from the priest, then goes out (north door) and reads the epistle in the center of the church, then melts unobtrusively back into the choir.

It is not standard in our church to take the cross out for the Entrances but this seems due more to the fact that we are always short on servers than to the fact that our priest prohibits it because often on large feasts when we have extra servers he will let us take the cross out for the Entrances. I would, naturally, be interested to find out where Fr. Raphael found out about the Russian practice of only taking the cross out for major processions.

Mr. Steenberg,
I'm glad to hear that much of this is local custom because over the years my impression has been just that but I never could be sure if it was just because no one had the energy to research what the poor servers were supposed to do or because what you say is true.
However, you do leave open the unsettling possibility that some of this is in the typikon because you say that "most" of this is local custom. It would be preferable if I could sort out what things we have have rules for and what things not.

A last question, what are your various practices for entering the Altar? I have read and seen various things, some people kiss the deacon's door before entering and then make one prostration (or bow depending on the season), some people make three and don't kiss the deacon's door and often priests say a brief prayer upon entering the Altar.

[Father David Moser]

I have never seen the censer carried by a server at any of the entrances either at Vigil or Liturgy. ... Maybe Fr David has seen this practice or has some comments on it?


Actually, in smaller parishes with a small altar or limited number of servers, carrying the censer is a matter not of liturgical necessity, but of convenience. The server brings the censer to the priest to cense the gifts right before and right after the great entrance and if he is not carrying it, then he has a lot of "running" to do to get the censer, put it away, grab a candle (or whatever) and then make the entrance, reenter the altar and make his bows, hurrying all the while to put up the candle and retrieve the censer in time so that the priest has it. It's easier if he just carries it with him. So in my experience, whenever the server has been carrying the censer it is to avoid excess "runningaround" in the altar and to make it easier for him to juggle everything that he has to do.

Fr David Moser

[Father David Moser]

The fans were originally intended to 'cover' the gifts, and as such likely would have surrounded them in the entrance; but this is no longer the common practice, and generally the censer-bearer follows the candle-bearers, and he is followed by the fan-bearers, followed by the clergy bearing the gifts.

Another "variation" is that the fans may "flank" the gifts, but in single file - iow there are the candles, one fan, the gifts and the second fan.

Fr David Moser

[Father David Moser]

is it standard practice for the fan-bearers to "cover" the Holy Gifts at the Great Entrance or not? In my church they cover the Gospel at the Little Entrance but not the Gifts at the Great Entrance, this seems somewhat inconsistent.

In my experience the fans do cover both the Gospel and the Gifts at the appropriate times (including the reading of the Gospel at matins when it is read in the center of the Church)




I have read also (in "The Law of God" by Archpriest Seraphim Slobodskoy) that the deacons usually hold the fans over the Gifts at the Consecration but I have never seen this done anywhere, is it another antiquated practice which has sadly fallen into disuse?

This is still done in some places, but it is only universally done in the ordination of a new deacon. As part of his "ensemble" his is given the fan as the clergy and people chant "Axios". Since this is after the consecration, he then takes the fan and fans the Gifts crosswise



Mr. Steenberg,

I'm glad to hear that much of this is local custom because over the years my impression has been just that but I never could be sure if it was just because no one had the energy to research what the poor servers were supposed to do or because what you say is true.
However, you do leave open the unsettling possibility that some of this is in the typikon because you say that "most" of this is local custom. It would be preferable if I could sort out what things we have have rules for and what things not.


The position of "liturgist" is one that is, in these days, sadly falling into obivion. The senior clergy to whom I look for this kind of instruction themselves bemoan the fact that they are woefully inadequate and that their instructors (now departed) were the real experts. To truly be a liturgist is a lifelong avocation and usually there is an archdeacon or monastic at the chief cathedral or monastery who is this person. In North America, it seems that the real experts were all educated in the "old country" seminaries and theological schools and that their sources are mostly the result of having lived their lives serving in the Church. Archbishop Anthony (San Francisco) of blessed memory one was one such person. He knew the answer to even the most trivial liturgical questions and was himself very careful even about the details. He also could chant most of the services from memory. In his later life, his eyesight was so poor that he required a magnifying glass and bright light to read - but even so he would often come and stand on the kliros and chant the whole service, even the Octoechos and Menaion hymns, from memory. That's the kind of dedication that it really takes. But we don't have many such people anymore (especially in North America). Therefore we rely on a lot of "local practice" where serving in the altar is way to "engage the little boys" (that means keep them from driving their parents crazy) and not something for most adults to do (thus the dearth of "adult minds" looking to the problem).


A last question, what are your various practices for entering the Altar? I have read and seen various things, some people kiss the deacon's door before entering and then make one prostration (or bow depending on the season), some people make three and don't kiss the deacon's door and often priests say a brief prayer upon entering the Altar.

When one enters the altar the first time, he faces the Holy Table, crosses himself thrice, making a metonia (prostrations on weekdays) each time. He then goes to the senior priest (or bishop) and receives a blessing (and then goes about the business for which he entered the altar). Successive entrances for servers is that they will simply cross themselves upon entering or if in a procession will go behind the altar with the other servers face the high place and bow (and so on as previously noted). Clergy, when the enter the altar will generally kiss the icon at the door. There may or may not be a particular prayer said, depending on the service. I have, somewhere, a copy of a lecture given to our clergy that contains a few comments on the topic. If I can find it, I'll try and quote the applicable portions.

Fr David Moser

[Alex Haig]

Christ is Risen!

The practice of censing the gifts during the Great Entrance is a spill over from the Liturgy of the Presanctified: since the gifts in a 'normal' Liturgy are still bread and wine they shouldn't be censed. Is there a theological arguement for this? Many people strongly argue censing during the Entrance is completely wrong but it still happens in some parishes. It seems to me, however, permissible as unconsecrated items are censed at other times (e.g. the bread and wine during the Prothesis).


With love in the Risen Christ


Alex

[M.C. Steenberg]

The practice of censing the gifts during the Great Entrance is a spill over from the Liturgy of the Presanctified: since the gifts in a 'normal' Liturgy are still bread and wine they shouldn't be censed. Is there a theological arguement for this? Many people strongly argue censing during the Entrance is completely wrong but it still happens in some parishes. It seems to me, however, permissible as unconsecrated items are censed at other times (e.g. the bread and wine during the Prothesis).

Dear Alex, the gifts are always consecrated at the great entrance, before they are moved (i.e. on the table of preparation, just before being taken up by the clergy), and once they are set on the altar at the end of the entrance (hence the need for the censer to be at the ready at the end of the great entrance, that Fr David described above). The censing of the gifts is not inextricably linked to their having been consecrated; it is in such instances part of the sanctification of the gifts that is the whole of the service (the gifts have already been censed many times by the time of the great entrance: during the prothesis, at the censing of the whole sanctuary and church by the deacon, etc.).

When at the great entrance the censer is carried in the procession itself, it is not swung (i.e. the gifts are not actively 'being censed' during the procession). Traditionally, the censer is carried over the deacon's shoulder, while the paten is elevated above his head. In some cases the censer is carried by a server -- but not swung; simply carried.

I don't think there is a connection to the Liturgy of the pre-sanctified gifts in this.

INXC, Matthew

[Father David Moser]

Dear Alex, the gifts are always consecrated at the great entrance, before they are moved (i.e. on the table of preparation, just before being taken up by the clergy), and once they are set on the altar at the end of the entrance (hence the need for the censer to be at the ready at the end of the great entrance, that Fr David described above).

Matthew,

I presume that you meant to write that "the gifts are always censed at the great entrance..."

Fr David Moser

[M.C. Steenberg]

I presume that you meant to write that "the gifts are always censed at the great entrance..."

Well, yes. Well spotted typo. "Read what I mean, not what I type"?

INXC, Matthew

[Paul Cowan]

It's very nice to hear from a fellow "cat-herder" as you call it :).

I wish I could say or tell the difference, but I just do what I am told. I have only visited a OO church Liturgy twice but never another EO church. I am too busy at my own parish.


I'm assuming the Antiochians follow the Greek practices which may account for some notable differences in our processions.

Yes, that is correct


In all your processions I note that, if I understand it correctly, the servers form an isle facing one another through which the priests/deacons pass or stand during the prayers.

Yes, this is what we do also.


Our reader comes out of choir with the epistle book, comes into the Altar (south door) to recieve a blessing from the priest, then goes out (north door) and reads the epistle in the center of the church, then melts unobtrusively back into the choir.

Right after the Epistle we have the Gospel reading. I was told we were to have the servers with equipment outside for the Gospel not necessarily the epistle. If this is the case, it just flows better for the servers to lead the reader out for his epistle and stay out there for the gospel.


In our practice, we always face the iconostasis. Also, we never come out unless the priest does meaning that there is no procession at the epistle.

For our parish, our priest was a solo job for over 10 years. So I am sure he did things for the efficiency of them. In the past 2 years, we have gotten an associate Priest and a Deacon and not that I am anything, but I have been able to offer my limited services herding the boys. We have had wonderful "herdsmen" in the past to help, but they have all moved away. The other few men that do know how to serve, are usually with their families tending their own kids.


It is not standard in our church to take the cross out for the Entrances but this seems due more to the fact that we are always short on servers than to the fact that our priest prohibits it because often on large feasts when we have extra servers he will let us take the cross out for the Entrances.

I have much to learn
PC

[David Dietrich]

So unless I'm mistaken, you, Father David, say that at both the Great and Small Entrances the Gospel/Gifts are covered by the fans (as well as at Matins) and the servers bow to the High Place upon re-entering the Altar.

Your intstructions on entering the Altar are exactly what I needed, thank you.

One more question however, I think I remember seeing in various American churches, and recently I've seen this in a video of an old world church, the servers, before re-entering the Altar, line up in front of the Royal doors in the Nave and bow before going in. This would seem to be consistent with what Mr. Steenberg said about the Priest turning to bless the servers, not the people, at the end of entrances. If both these things are the case, then it would seem that the servers should, immediately upon the conclusion of the entrance prayers, line up in front of the Ambo for the priest's blessing only after which do they return to the Altar in which they line up before the High Place and bow before resuming their places.

A final comment. From my years of experience it has been strongly impressed upon me that the office of the Altar Server is analogous to that of the angels in heaven and that since this is the case, the office of the Altar Server is closely akin to that of the soldier in that they are both low-ranked servants of higher officials who are expected to maintain flawless discipline in the execution of their duties. What think you of this idea?

[Father David Moser]

A final comment. From my years of experience it has been strongly impressed upon me that the office of the Altar Server is analogous to that of the angels in heaven and that since this is the case, the office of the Altar Server is closely akin to that of the soldier in that they are both low-ranked servants of higher officials who are expected to maintain flawless discipline in the execution of their duties. What think you of this idea?

Its a great idea, however, inculcating it in the consciousness of the 21st century North American Orthodox Church will be difficult since serving in the altar is too often seen as something for little boys to do. In that context the Alter Server is not "akin to a soldier" but rather "playing soldier" - and while a soldier (or his kin) might be expected to "maintain flawless discipline" - that is not a criteria of one who is playing soldier.

Fr David Moser

[Paul Cowan]

Its a great idea, however, inculcating it in the consciousness of the 21st century North American Orthodox Church will be difficult since serving in the altar is too often seen as something for little boys to do. In that context the Alter Server is not "akin to a soldier" but rather "playing soldier" - and while a soldier (or his kin) might be expected to "maintain flawless discipline" - that is not a criteria of one who is playing soldier.

Fr David Moser

Or for one herding cats :)

Even as toddlers cannot pay attention to the full service and even fall asleep during the service, just being exposed to the service is enough to subconsciously make something 'stick' in their minds.

If the boys cannot maintain attention and start getting fidgety they do hear the service even if they are not paying attention. I am always surprised each Sunday as I AM paying attention and might miss a que for a movement, the boys will "hear" the que and move before I realize I missed it. I am proud of them for that.


the Gospel/Gifts covered by the fans

Can you explain what this looks like? After the Great Entrance our Deacon goes out to pray and then comes back in the North door after the Creed. He then takes a fan from a server and fans the Holy Gifts while the priest prays. Is this the same thing?

Paul

[David Dietrich]

I've found some partial translations of the Russian Typikon one of which discusses the opening and closing of the Altar curtain:

"At the beginning of the Divine Liturgy the veil is opened and stays open until the Great Entrance. After the Entrance it is closed until the priest or deacon says: "The doors! The doors! In wisdom let us attend." Then it is opened and stays open until the exclamation "Holy Things are for the holy." Then it is closed again. After the communion [of the clergy] the veil is opened again and stays open until the end of the Divine Liturgy. After the dismissal of the Liturgy it is closed again. When a molieben is sung the veil stays open from the beginning until the dismissal."

In my church we only close the curtain before the clergy partake of the Eucharist and open it immediately after, we do not close it after the Great Entrance. What has been your experience with this?

I'm glad to hear that my 'military' view of serving is not entirely un-canonical. However difficult it may be to introduce to our diluded modern Christianity I do not think it is impossible and it should certainly be introduced as a perspective at the very least even if it is not put into practice. The early Christians had a highly martial view of their path which was a great reason for their adoration of the martyrs how we have lost this consciousness of the war that is being waged against Lucifer I have yet to discover.

"Covering" something with fans simply means that two servers (I've read it should be subdeacons ideally) flank the priest (who is holding the object to be covered) facing him and extend the fans out over the object thus "shading" it (if there was any sunlight). Needless to say this can be tireing on the arms when one has gone without breakfast and is forty-five minutes into the service...

The "little boy syndrome" in serving can be turned into a blessing, if it is handled skillfully, because although young boys lack the attention span and seriousness of their elders they are far more suseptable to influence by example. Through a combination of seeing their elder servers behave with decorum and discipline and being made to stand still themselves they can be made to instinctively understand the discipline of the Altar. I know this is how it happened with me; it was from my experience in the Altar from a young boy that I found the allegory to "angelic soldiery" if you will.

-David

[Father David Moser]

Can you explain what this looks like? After the Great Entrance our Deacon goes out to pray and then comes back in the North door after the Creed. He then takes a fan from a server and fans the Holy Gifts while the priest prays. Is this the same thing?

The subdeacons (or whoever is holding the fans when there aren't enough subdeacons) hold the fans aloft, canted in over the Gospel while it is being read or over the gifts while the priest stands before the Holy Doors and gives the exclamations (not while they are walking). It looks kind of like an "arch" over the top (when its done right). The action of the deacon you describe would come after the gifts have entered the altar. The fanning by the deacon is today often not done for various reasons, but it is certainly accurate.

Fr David Moser

[Father David Moser]

"At the beginning of the Divine Liturgy the veil is opened and stays open until the Great Entrance. After the Entrance it is closed until the priest or deacon says: "The doors! The doors! In wisdom let us attend." Then it is opened and stays open until the exclamation "Holy Things are for the holy." Then it is closed again. After the communion [of the clergy] the veil is opened again and stays open until the end of the Divine Liturgy. After the dismissal of the Liturgy it is closed again. When a molieben is sung the veil stays open from the beginning until the dismissal."


This is precisely how I do it, and it is in accordance with the "Cathedral standard" of the Western American Diocese (ROCOR).



The "little boy syndrome" in serving can be turned into a blessing,

The "little boy syndrome" which I have mentioned is not really an issue with young boys serving (I love to have them in the altar and they are eager to serve and serve well). The problem is with the adults who believe that serving is only for little boys and isn't really such an important thing. These adults treat serving in the altar as a kind of "childcare" (Ok maybe that's a little harsh) and not a real serious part of the service. They do not see the servers as representatives of the angelic host praising and glorifying God but as a bunch of fat little cherubs decorating a pretty picture in the center. They want their children to serve in the altar, but ask the adult to serve and there is no way. (I must say that I do have adult servers in my parish and that they are really wonderful. My generalizations are not to be taken as a "whitewash" of all adults, merely a way of describing a widespread mindset about altar servers in North American Orthodoxy.

Fr David Moser

[Paul Cowan]

In my church we only close the curtain before the clergy partake of the Eucharist and open it immediately after, we do not close it after the Great Entrance. What has been your experience with this?

This is how we do it also.


The subdeacons (or whoever is holding the fans when there aren't enough subdeacons) hold the fans aloft, canted in over the Gospel while it is being read or over the gifts while the priest stands before the Holy Doors and gives the exclamations (not while they are walking).

Thank you for this Father David.

Paul

[David Dietrich]

Going back to the blessing of the Altar Servers at the end of entrances... This is clearly plausible at the Little Entrance, but at the Great Entrance I noticed that when the priest turns to the people it is at the point when he intercedes for them and therefore does not seem to be related to the Altar Servers. Could you explain this or give some source for clearing it up?

David D

[M.C. Steenberg]

Going back to the blessing of the Altar Servers at the end of entrances... This is clearly plausible at the Little Entrance, but at the Great Entrance I noticed that when the priest turns to the people it is at the point when he intercedes for them and therefore does not seem to be related to the Altar Servers. Could you explain this or give some source for clearing it up?

Dear David,

At the end of the Great Entrance, the priest and assembled clergy make the commemorations at the ambon, ending with 'May the Lord God remember you and all Orthodox Christians in His kingdom, always, now and forever and to the ages of ages', during which the gifts are elevated before the priest turns to doors and carries the gifts into the altar.

This is not the same as the blessing of the servers to re-enter the sanctuary, which should properly follow this -- i.e., the priest, having laid the gifts upon the altar, turns back to the servers, blesses them to enter, then turns again to the altar.

I have, if truth be told, seen the practice of the servers simply entering the sanctuary after the clergy following the commemorations. But properly they should remain in their positions until the priest turns again and blesses their entry.

INXC, Matthew

[David Dietrich]

I certainly don't doubt your veracity but if I'm going to add that to the guide it would be nice to have a concrete source for it, although if necessary I can do without.

[Robert Hegwood]

Just an observation on a comment made:

Why would it be desirable for a deacon to carry a censer over his shoulder? Just guessing because our parish doesn't have a deacon, it would seem such a practice would result in lots of ruined vestments and burned body parts. Is there a way of doing it that doesn't involve barbecued rotator cuffs and flaming orarions?

[M.C. Steenberg]

Why would it be desirable for a deacon to carry a censer over his shoulder? Just guessing because our parish doesn't have a deacon, it would seem such a practice would result in lots of ruined vestments and burned body parts. Is there a way of doing it that doesn't involve barbecued rotator cuffs and flaming orarions?

When this is done properly, it is largely for practical reasons. The paten, on which is the lamb and the particles covered by the 'Star' and the veil, is carried - according to the rubrics - 'on the deacon's head'. In practice this normally means that the deacon, holding the paten with his two hands, holds it high, with its base at about the crown of his forehead, slightly in front. From this position (and you can try acting it out now if you like), to hold the censer by placing its ring around the thumb or little finger and slinging it over the upper arm / shoulder, is quite simple (and in most practice, 'shoulder' means upper arm, so the censer is slung over the right upper-arm, just below the shoulder joint - thus hanging over the arm, rather than laid on the deacon's back, on the vestments). Moreover, slinging the censer over the arm, rather than simply letting it hang from the hand below the paten, serves two very practical ends: first, it defrays the censer's weight, which is supported by the whole arm, rather than just the elevated hands, preventing it from jostling the hands that hold the lamb and the particles. They can be kept steady for the sometimes long entrance and period of the commemorations. Secondly, it keeps the censer out from directly under the deacon's face, where it would swing if it were held in front, below the paten. However pious the deacon, inhaling that quantity of incense directly out of the top of the censer for that length of time would likely serve less than spiritual ends. :)

INXC, Matthew

[Paul Cowan]

Dear Matthew,

I wish I could mentally "see" that better. Can you supply a picture of a Deacon doing this? Much appreciated.

Paul

[Olga]

The church I attend is only rarely graced by a serving deacon, usually only during episcopal visits.

My guess is the deacon closes the cap on the censer before placing the censer over his shoulder, thereby eliminating spillage of incense or charcoal over his vestments. Even with the cap closed, there is usually enough incense percolating through the holes in the top of the cap.

[M.C. Steenberg]

I wish I could mentally "see" that better. Can you supply a picture of a Deacon doing this? Much appreciated.

Dear Paul,

I've searched in vain for a photograph on-line of a deacon thus carring the paten and censer in the great entrance. But I was reminded this morning by a close priest friend of a good reason for this: most photos on-line are of large / festal / episcopal Liturgies, in which case there are generally two deacons; and if there are two deacons, the second deacon simply carries the censer in the normal way.

The same priest (who served as a deacon for many years) also noted to me the difficulty that can come of this way of carrying things if the chains on the censer are too short, which causes the censer to rest on the arm, which can burn -- so it is important that the censer be of a good length in this regard.

I shall keep looking for a photo (or perhaps someone else can locate one). I'm sure that if none can be found, we can at least manage a drawing of some kind.

INXC, Matthew

[Father David Moser]

Dear Matthew,

I wish I could mentally "see" that better. Can you supply a picture of a Deacon doing this? Much appreciated.

Paul

The DVD of the presanctified liturgy (http://www.wadiocese.com/enews.php?id=30) put out by the Western American Diocese of the Russian Church Outside Russia shows the priest carrying the gifts at eye level during the presanctified liturgy but the censer is carried by a server. We are beginning work on a DVD for the Divine Liturgy which should provide those same visuals for the regular liturgy, and so you should see a deacon carrying the gifts and censer as described - but we are still in preproduction so it will be a while.

Fr David moser

[M.C. Steenberg]

This will be a helpful thing to have, once completed. I've not yet seen the video of the Presanctified Liturgy, but have heard many good things concerning it.

In the meantime, do let us continue the search for a photo or a drawing of the same to post here.

INXC, Matthew

[Paul Cowan]

I thank you Matthew and Fr. David.

I only want to learn and this is the single best place to do it.

Paul

[David Dietrich]

One question hasn't been answered yet I think, unless I missed it, and that is on how processions are begun. Is is standard practice, since we appearently have nothing else, to bow to the high place and/or the priest upon assembling behind the altar before the little entrance? The great entrance does not worry me as I'm almost certain that does not start from the high place but just with the servers lining up behind the north door.

[Kris]

Since no one else could find a picture, here's my pathetic attempt at a stick-man drawing using MS Paint :-)

23

[M.C. Steenberg]

One question hasn't been answered yet I think, unless I missed it, and that is on how processions are begun. Is is standard practice, since we appearently have nothing else, to bow to the high place and/or the priest upon assembling behind the altar before the little entrance? The great entrance does not worry me as I'm almost certain that does not start from the high place but just with the servers lining up behind the north door.
Dear David,

Allow me to give a response on the symbolism, rather than on the technical instructions (as I do believe this is a matter of local - though widespread - custom rather than a set pattern or order described in a rubric; I'll await comments from others in this regard).

In terms of symbolism and liturgical motion, the candle-bearer leads the clergy with the Gospel book around the alter, out the north door, to the centre of the church. The clergy follow the candle. In this sense, the procession actually begins when the candle bearer is still to the right of the altar (the south side), as he takes up the candle and moves around the east end of the sanctuary to the north door, the clergy following him.

The custom of 'assembling' the servers in a rank/order before the high place at the beginning of the procession is widespread. In this custom, the heads of the procession (candle-bearer, cross, and/or other items) process to the high place, turn to the clergy, and bow as the Gospel is lifted up - the procession then proceeds around the altar and out the doors.

INXC, Matthew

[Paul Cowan]

Dear Matthew,

Just to clarify in my own mind...the High place is the cross behind the alter?

Paul

[Father David Moser]

the High place is the cross behind the alter?


The way the Russian Churches are usually arranged, the Cross is directly behind the altar table and behind the cross there is a space. Along the wall in this space is the bishop's throne - directly behind the altar table, often on a raised dais. This is the High Place. There may also be some lesser seating (usually benches) for the lesser clergy. On the wall behind the High Place is often an icon of Christ Enthroned or perhaps the Resurrection or some other appropriate depicton.

Fr David Moser

[David Dietrich]

Does anyone have comments on the general nature and development of Orthodox worship and its "places" (i.e. the church building, censer, fans etc)? I'm spending a couple weeks now writing a section expounding on this since it is so closely associated with the nature and purpose of the server. I don't ask because I'm entirely ignorant but because I would like as many sources as possible so don't be afraid that I'm going to start saying wild and air-headed things about Orthodox worship.

David D

[Father David Moser]

Does anyone have comments on the general nature and development of Orthodox worship and its "places" (i.e. the church building, censer, fans etc)?

I think a "must read" for this kind of information is Sokolof's A Manual of The Orthodox Church's Divine Services It is published by Holy Trinity Monastery in Jordanville, NY and is available through most of the Orthodox booksellers. Also Fr Seraphim Slobodskoy's The Law of God has an excellent section on the Church building and the various pieces of hard and soft wear associated with it. In order to keep from saying wild and crazy things, its best to just quote or rephrase what those older and wiser have already said.

Fr David Moser

[Bogdan]

It is interesting to hear that the cross is usually not included in the little entrance. I would have to say that as long as there are an odd number of servers (1,3,5, etc) the cross will always be carried. This goes for both the little and great entrance. If there are even number of servers, the cross is skipped for the little entrance, but still included on the great entrance. Very interesting difference.

Another is that no server ever carries the censor in a serbian church that I have seen. This seems from my experience to be a "Greek" phenomenon. The only time you will see a censor in a procession is when there is a deacon.

As for starting a procession, particularly the little entrance, ours goes as follows:

Servers take the cross/candles from behind the great table, facing the priest. They bow to him as he bows with the Gospel in hand. As he goes to the south side of the table, servers go to the north, bowing once again as he bows. As he goes to the east, they file along the north deacon door, waiting for him to finish his bowing. As "Slava tebje" is sung they exit and usually stand in front of the main icon, facing the ikonostas and the back of the priest. After the priest enters, they split and half enter the south door, half the north.

There were other things I wanted to mention but have lost my train of thought. I will revisit this thread shortly with more comments :)

[Paul Cowan]

Thank you Fr. David.

In my parish, perhaps because our size may not be as large as some, behind the alter virtually touching it is the stand for the candles, cross and fans. A 4 foot distance roughly, then the Bishops throne, (chair) inches from the cross which is inches from the wall. We place icons to be blessed for 40 days along the floor on either side of the cross. We have no room for benches. The ceiling above the cross has the Theotokos of the Sign. 6 feet or so on either side of the cross is a window with a oil candle in it and outside those windows are Christ icons on the right and Theotokos icons on the left.

The servers have to take their intruments from the stand and arrange themselves in the 4 foot space in front ot the throne. We usually end up tripping on it. We have no elevated space directly behind the alter as you describe the High Place.

Paul

[M.C. Steenberg]

Since no one else could find a picture, here's my pathetic attempt at a stick-man drawing using MS Paint :-)

23

Dear Kris,

I'm not sure how I missed this the first time around - but this brought a smile to my face!

INXC, Matthew

[David Dietrich]

Paul, unless I'm quite mistaken the place where the chair is for the bishop behind the altar is always referred to as the high place whether or not it is actually "high".

Fr. David, I already have the Law of God, and your right it is very good and useful not only for my purpose but for many others as well, and I've ordered the manual which looks extremely interesting thank you!

Bogdan, you have certainly sinched the fact that it is a universal practice to bow to the priest before starting a procession. I would be interested to know how you do the great entrance in your church. Also, do the servers recieve the priest's blessing before reentering the altar or not? And do they bow to the high place after reentering?

Kris' "illustrative diagram" warmed my heart also :D

[Olga]

Another is that no server ever carries the censor in a serbian church that I have seen. This seems from my experience to be a "Greek" phenomenon. The only time you will see a censor in a procession is when there is a deacon.

Just to add to this rich stew, in the ROCOR church I am familiar with, the censer is always carried by an altarboy and held high while he faces the priest during the Great Entrance. This church is served by a single priest, without a deacon.

[David Dietrich]

I have attempted, in my guide, to give a fairly simple definition and explanation of what to worship God (that is, the True God) is and would appreciate it if some of you would look it over:

"At its most basic level worship is a communion between God and man. This means that in worship man gives himself to God and God to man. We give ourselves to God by giving our time, our attention, our energy, our songs and verses while God gives Himself to us silently in our hearts. This interchange between God and man is worship. We can worship alone but we must also worship with the rest of the Church because Christ said, “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” This means that when more than one Christian are gathered together and when those Christians all correctly believe in Christ then He is there with them.

To worship is what man was made to do, therefore we are most truly human when we worship.The first worship was between Adam and God in the Garden when Adam “talked with God” meaning that Adam gave his thoughts and feelings to God thus being worship. After the fall, worship became even more important because it was man’s only way to be with God. Because of this, Lucifer has continually tried to confuse our understanding of God so that we cannot worship Him. This has resulted in the creation of many false gods. In response to this, the True God established priests and other clergy to preserve the faith in Him so man could worship the Him and not one of the countless other false gods.

Because of all this, the worship of the One True God is filled with words and images that describe the True God so that we can believe in Him correctly and so that we can tell the difference between Him and the other false gods. The best example of this is the Creed which is a bunch of words that describe who God is: the Father Who is Almighty and Who created everything, the Son Who is one with the Father and Who rose on the third day as recorded in the Bible and the Holy Spirit Who is one with the Father and the Son and Who spoke by the prophets. In our places of worship we have many icons that all show us the God by picturing Him and all those Who are like Him, that is, the saints and Theotokos etc. because all of them show us some characteristic of God. For instance, when we see an icon of st. George and the dragon we see that God is a brave conqueror, or when we see an icon of Jesus in the Theotokos we see that God was a child in Mary’s womb."

Thank you!
- David D

[Bogdan]

the great entrance in general is performed as follows:

since the priest is using the censor right before the great entrance begins, what happens is he finishes censing in front of the holy table, we line up as he finishes saying his prayers, and as he bows to the people, turns, bows to us, we in return bow. He goes over to the elements, censes again, and we go to the north door. The cross always exits first (another note i noticed and forgot to mention) and the candles always go last, followed by the deacon and priest of course. We once again all line up in a straight line facing the ikonostas, right in front of the main church icon. We wait until all clergy have entered, and usually it is the practice to NOT get a specific "recognized" blessing from the priest. In other words, as soon as everyone is in, it's time to go! This is probobly due to the fact that someone needs to be giving the priest the censor right away!

Once inside, the designated alter server who is giving the censor hands his candle (usually a candle bearer) to another server and goes to get the censor. As the priest censes the gifts, we bow to him and return our instruments.

p.s. - i liked your explanation. short and to the point.

i would point out two small things however. First, at the end of the second paragraph, you write, "...so man could worship the Him..." 'the' is unnecessary here.

second, in the fourth paragraph you say, "...this is the creed which is a bunch of words..." i would not be so vernacular in my description of the creed. To bring it up a notch but still keep the tone of the paragraph, i would substitute "selection of prayers" ...or anything a little more serious for such a serious description as that of the creed :)

[David Dietrich]

Very interesting about the great entrance.

Your rundown of my explanation is very useful. Your right about the Creed and I think I'll just skip trying to describe its "wordiness" altogether and just elucidate on my main point directly, however much I regret not being able to contrast verbal definition in the Creed with visual definition in the icon, but one can't have everything.

[David Dietrich]

In what places do the servers enter the altar after processions through both doors and where do they enter only through the south door? I've seen both practices quite frequently. From a post here I infer that the serbian church servers go in both doors, but at my church we have always come out the north door and gone in the south door... confusion is rife here

[Paul Cowan]

Dear David,

In the Antiochian, well my parish, no one enters the N doors except the Deacon at the very end of the service as the priest says the final prayers at the proskomedia table. I don't know why though.

Paul

[Bogdan]

no confusion david, just different ways of doing things. don't get confused, just understand as so many have said in earlier posts that at the end of the day it's usually up to the discression of the priest, bishop, church, etc.

I would say the general rule would be going out the North, going in the South, with various deviations. In my humble opinion, if you illustrate the variaty of options, your general rules will have more backbone.

[David Dietrich]

What I want to know is how did this general principle of going out the north and in the south get established? It clearly goes against the grain of convenience, symmetry and efficiency.

[Paul Cowan]

What I want to know is how did this general principle of going out the north and in the south get established? It clearly goes against the grain of convenience, symmetry and efficiency.

The way it was described to me...The icon of the Archangel Michael is outside the N door and the icon of the Archangel Gabriel is outside the S door.

Just as Archangel Michael held the blazing sword so Adam and Eve could not re-enter paradise and as the Archangel Gabriel saluted the Theotokos and invited the world to enter into a relationship with CHrist, so are the 2 doors represented with their particular icons.

Paul

[Father David Moser]

What I want to know is how did this general principle of going out the north and in the south get established? It clearly goes against the grain of convenience, symmetry and efficiency.

The Liturgy is highly symbolic "play" a theatrical recapitulation of the life of Christ beginning with His birth and ending with His ascent into heaven. In the entrances we portray the movements of Christ from Galilee of the north, south to Jerusalem - that is why we always take the entrance from the "north" door and enter into the Royal Gates of Jerusalem. The servers, entering the south door simply complete that movement.

Fr David

[Olga]

The way it was described to me...The icon of the Archangel Michael is outside the N door and the icon of the Archangel Gabriel is outside the S door.

Just as Archangel Michael held the blazing sword so Adam and Eve could not re-enter paradise and as the Archangel Gabriel saluted the Theotokos and invited the world to enter into a relationship with Christ, so are the 2 doors represented with their particular icons.

Paul

The northern deacon's door should portray Archangel Gabriel, and the southern Archangel Michael. Gabriel symbolises beginnings, such as being the messenger to the Virgin at the Annunciation (as he also was to Zacharias and Elizabeth), thus he is also on the same side as the Mother of God. Michael symbolises ends, such as his participation in the final battle between good and evil, in "weighing" the merits of the souls of the dead at the final judjement, and other events described in Revelation. Michael is therefore on the same side of the iconostasis as Christ, the Righteous Judge.

However, of the many, many iconostases I have seen, there is a tiny number of churches where this order has been reversed in error.

[Paul Cowan]

Thank you Olga. I stand corrected
Paul

[David Dietrich]

Thank you all, very interesting. Is it in vain that I ask where you learned this?

[Alex Haig]

Thank you all, very interesting. Is it in vain that I ask where you learned this?


Unfortunately, as far as I can work out, because there is such variation between even parishes of the same local Church, it is very difficult to set out a universal typikon with "The Tradition". While there are obviously many things that are the same from one Church to another, there is so much that can change that to write it all down would take a life time. In the end, I believe, you just get a feel for what's Orthodox but codifying it is another matter.

With regards to iconostases, I am reminded of a story of a friend of mine visiting a Church (I think in Damascus). To the left of the Royal Doors was an Icon of the Mother of God, to the right one of Christ. Then, to the left of the Panagia another icon of her, then another (so there were three of her together in a row) and on the right the same with Christ. When my friend asked why are there three icons of the Mother of God his guide had a rather bemused look on his face and asked him: "Don't you love the Panagia?" I think this is a good example of where if everything in a Church is exactly where you'd expect it, then it may well not be an Orthodox Church!

With love in Christ

Alex

[Father David Moser]

Thank you all, very interesting. Is it in vain that I ask where you learned this?

The best way to learn anything about rubrics and "the way things are done" in the Orthodox Church is "watching" and "doing". That's how I have learned most of what I know. Every few years I still take a week at the cathedral to serve every day with someone more knowledgeable than myself looking over my shoulder and making corrections and suggestions. I have found that very little of practical value is learned from books or manuals.

Fr David Moser

[Bogdan]

i agree with father. we have to understand that for centuries christianity was a faith of spoken word, not written one. What you see is what you get. Manual's are all well and good, but a deeper understanding of tradition would make the experience that much more rewarding and understandable to the potential server. The best advice I would give to any alter server in any parish is watch and learn.

[David Dietrich]

However much you may praise the eastern "floatsy" method of doing everything, you will never convince me its better than the western method of actually having rules.

Anyway, how have banners been used in your experience?

[David Dietrich]

Would it be safe to say that no word in any of our services is less than one thousand years old? And would it be safe to say that all the words of Orthodox services come from the Psalms except those hymns that pertain to specifically Christian practices?

[Bogdan]

However much you may praise the eastern "floatsy" method of doing everything, you will never convince me its better than the western method of actually having rules.

Anyway, how have banners been used in your experience?

i respectfully disagree. there are two very old adeges i would like to point out. "Rules are meant to be broken" and "Seing is believing". Practical application is the #1 way to learn something and to truly understand it. Words on paper are at the end of the day.....just words on paper. Application is how we bring ourselves closer to God. But that's just my experience.

As for banners, their only used for processions around the church. Christmas and Easter. Also for the Saint day of the church. And occasionally for other major saints like St. Sava.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Would it be safe to say that no word in any of our services is less than one thousand years old? And would it be safe to say that all the words of Orthodox services come from the Psalms except those hymns that pertain to specifically Christian practices?

I hesitate to jump in here, not being a Liturgical scholar, but based on what little I know, I would have to say NO for a variety of reasons.

The form of the Liturgy has remained relatively constant. Those more knowledgeable than I can testify as to the constancy of the original Greek or Slavonic, but with the several different translations into English, I suspect a word or two or more have "changed". Also, while a great deal of the prayers of the Church come directly from the Psalms, they are certainly not the only source. The words of the Prophets, Proverbs, and other parts of the Old Testament also provide sources for many prayers, particularly the priest's "silent" prayers. And I know that some parishes have added "air" and "space" to the litanies for those who travel, these modes did not exist a thousand years ago, so they would in fact be additions.

And while I understand you may like rules, you had better get used to the idea that you are not a member of any organized religion, you are Orthodox!

If I have misspoken in my ignorance, I eagerly look forward to correction.

Herman the Pooh

[Andreas Moran]

The text of the Divine Liturgy used at the monastery at Essex has footnoted sources for every word and phrase used.

[Robert Hegwood]

However much you may praise the eastern "floatsy" method of doing everything, you will never convince me its better than the western method of actually having rules.

Just what do you mean by "better"?

More convienient/easier to figure out?
Mechanically regular?
True to the nature and purpose of the Liturgy?

How do you understand the functionality of rules?

Forensically/Juridically?
Pastorally?

Why are the rules the rules? Are they just arbitrary stage directions or are they rooted in Orthodox worship so that not only their content but the mindset that guides their application is part and parcel of the Tradition?

Consider canon law? The roots of western and eastern canon law are the same...the application of canon law is very different between east and west. The east is quite consciously and deliberately pastoral in its reading and application of canons...this translates into not going strictly by the letter of the rules but always being conscious of their intent and purpose within the context of those who are called upon to live by them. They are applied like medicines in dosages appropriate to the health and strength of the patient. To follow one dose fits all rules in all cirucumstances is to condemn a number of patients to needless suffering and even death. The medicine has been turned into poison by a "rules uber alles" mindset.

Or consider the proper Orthodox response to certain not strictly canonical icons...icons not painted in complete accordance with Orthodox theology from a time and place were knowledge of the canons might have slipped a little under other influnces, yet which been used in Orthodox worship for centuries, venerated by hundreds of thousands many of great holiness and piety. Say like icons that show the Father...not canonical...yet there is a big one up at Valamo, the Athos of the North. Do we just chuck them out because they don't fit "the rules"? Probably not. Do we just paint more of them knowing that they are not correct? Probably not.

What about our canons concerning fasting? Have you never had a nice juicy piece of fish on a non-fish day? What about shaving? The canons say men should grow their beards? Ever shave?

So what does this mean?

If you ask me (not that you have to...I'll gladly volunteer my opinions), it means there is a human incarnational dimension to Orthodox rules and rule keeping. It seems to me while there may well be more correct forms for doing this thing or that thing, beneath them rests the actual Tradition they are called upon to express. It is that Tradition that must of course be borne in mind and adhered to, not necessarity some minutia of ritual protocol....as good as it may be to get it right.

And things being slightly different proceedurally from place to place is seemily as old as the Church. Consider the advice of St. Ambrose to the blessed Augustine:


When St. Augustine arrived in Milan, he observed that the Church did not fast on Saturday as did the Church at Rome. He consulted St. Ambrose, bishop of Milan, who replied: "When I am at Rome, I fast on a Saturday; when I am at Milan, I do not. Follow the custom of the Church where you are." The comment was changed to "When they are at Rome, they do there as they see done" by Robert Burton in his Anatomy of Melancholy. Eventually it became "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

So it would seem that with regard to the rubrics of serving the altar, if we take St. Ambrose's advice into account: with regard to non essential proceedural ruberics local custom is what is to be followed (this preserves humility by avoiding the inherent ostentation in "displays" of rigor."

And we might also consider the case of Patriarch St. Nikon who noticed that there was too much difference between the ligurgical customs of the Russians and the Byzantines, so he set out to normalize Russian practice according to what he considered the superior and more ancient byzantine practice. The way he implimented things caused some troubles, but in principle we see illustrated the older tradition that outlying dioceses took their cues for proper order from more prestiegous metropolitan centers, who themselves keyed off the customs of the their associated patriarchates.

And between these two poles the tradition on certain "rubrics" finds existance in a very Orthodox apophatically realized dynamic tension...local custom and patriarchal norms.

In your persuit or rigor and rules I think perhaps you might be missing the deeper tradition. The rubrics we have exist a reason, and know what they are and where they come form can help in sifting more important form less important matters...but in the end, those things approvd by our priests and your bishops are going to have a lot to say about how what is done within the altar is done...adn that is the Tradition.

[Herman Blaydoe]

One of the oldest rules of monasticism is:

Do not take your typicon with you to another monastery.

[David Dietrich]

Ah if only the Romans had correct theology...
Ah if only the Greeks had Roman organizational skills...

As I warned you, I have not been in the least convinced that amorphously living without standards, regulations or rules is better than living concretely with standards, regulations and rules that are simple, clear, easy to follow and unchangeable. I want structure, I want order... can you blame me?

[Ryan Close]

1) At our parish, OCA, our priest wanted to have the servers, myself and two other men, on a rotating basis, hold the fans over the Holy Gifts during the consecration. The ones who do it are the same who carry the fans during the Great Entrance. After the first few weeks of putting the "implements" back in their place after the Great Entrance and then retrieving them for the Anaphora, I had the great idea of simply holding them on the N and S side of the Altar until they were needed. I thought this was necessary as putting the implements into their stand is somewhat troublesome and potentially distracting. Our priest never mentioned for us to go back to the first practice. We move to cover the Holy Altar at the point in the Preface where the priest says "even though there stands before you hosts of angels etc. . ." and put them back right after the commemoration of the saints and before the Hymn to the Theotokos. We are also in the chior so we exit the Sanctuary to sing in the Choir immediately after this until the end of the service. Could anyone offer better rubrics for this?

Two more questions:

2) Is the Great Entrance with Procession into the nave the Athonite practice? I just visited dear friends at a ROCOR parish and they did a Great Entrance on the ambo.

3) Also, some rules for Altar Servers, including the one made by St John Maximovhich say that Altar Servers must take off their server robes (sticharion) before receiving Holy Communion. We have never been directed to do this at our parish. But I saw this at the ROCOR parish I just visited. Shouldn't I ask my priest if I can take of my robe before receiving communion? And if so would I need a blessing before taking it off and putting it back on? Do all changes of vesture have to take place in the vestry? And is it possible that a server may only wear the robe when he needs it and not throughout the Liturgy if he is not in the Altar for whatever reason, because he is in the Choir for instance?

[Paul Cowan]

I thought only the deacon was allowed to fan the Holy Gifts. I have never heard and my priest certainly has not asked an alcolyte to do so when the deason was not present.

A bit after the Creed, the deaon enters through the north door and a server or he himself collects the fan that was replaced in it's holder after the Great Entrance and fans the Gifts until about the time Fr. says "seraphim, cherbim, six winged, many eyed soaring aloft..." at which time the deacon passes off the fan or replaces it and then at the "shouting, proclaiming and saying" he tings the star on the paton 4 times 1 on each side.

Our Great Entrance does not go into the narthex itself, but we do swing wide to cover the entire length of the church and then come back down the center aisle to the solea.

Our alcolytes wear robes and not sticharions. So I suppose this does not apply to us. I was under the impression only the ordained as in sub deacons and higher wore the sticharions. Our readers wear a cassock, but none of us take them off to receive communion. Seems that would be very distracting for others to watch us get undressed and dressed again or if nothing else, very time consuming especially if you had to get back to the choir.

Paul

[Michael Stickles]

2) Is the Great Entrance with Procession into the nave the Athonite practice? I just visited dear friends at a ROCOR parish and they did a Great Entrance on the ambo.

I don't know what Athonite practice is, but among the parishes I've visted (plus the one I attend regularly), the path of the Great Entrance seems to be at least partially dictated by the church layout. So, at the parish we attend when visiting my parents, they still have pews (a legacy from the original owners of the building) with no real room to do a procession down the sides, and so the Great Entrance is done on the ambo. At our parish there are a few rows of chairs in the back (for folks who are unable to stand for the whole service), and the Great Entrance turns back to the center aisle just before reaching the chairs. But when the service is more packed than usual and there's not enough room for the procession to go that far through the church, the Great Entrance only goes a little ways (as far as the icon stand in the center aisle) before coming back to the front.

In Christ,
Michael

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Ryan,

Just to confirm what Paul has already stated, the fanning of the holy gifts on the table is properly the duty of the deacon, not the altar servers. While the deacon does not regularly do this any longer in normal parish practice (since when only one priest and one deacon serve, the deacon has other things to do during this portion of the Liturgy, which would make fanning the gifts impractical), we still see this as the unique role of the diaconal office through the ordination service. The newly-ordained deacon is given the fan after his vesture and instructed to fan the consecrated gifts as his first liturgical 'act' as a minister of the holy table.

This is quite different from carrying the fans in the procession of the Great Entrance. When this is done, it is always the altar servers who carry the fans before and after the gifts (not the deacon, as he is carrying the diskos itself); but these are then normally taken back into the altar through the side doors and replaced.

A fanning of the consecrated gifts by the altar servers would be liturgically unusual, since this is normally seen as a direct interaction with the elements of the holy table, which acts are normally reserved solely for the celebrating clergy.

However, this might be something that your diocesan bishop has elected to modify for whatever reason. In this case, it would be wise to get clear instruction from your priest as to the bishop's wishes, given the unusual nature of the act (not entirely unheard of; subdeacons, in particular, are not entirely uncommonly given some of the liturgical tasks of a deacon when one is not present, so this wouldn't be an absolute novelty - just rather unusual).

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Ryan Close]

Our Great Entrance does not go into the narthex itself, but we do swing wide to cover the entire length of the church and then come back down the center aisle to the solea.

We don't have pews. But neither did the ROCOR parish I went to. And they told me that they saw the Great Entrance in our parish on YouTube and referred to it as the Greek practice. I rather like it because the people can touch the hem of the priest's vestments.


Our alcolytes wear robes and not sticharions. So I suppose this does not apply to us. I was under the impression only the ordained as in sub deacons and higher wore the sticharions. Our readers wear a cassock, but none of us take them off to receive communion. Seems that would be very distracting for others to watch us get undressed and dressed again or if nothing else, very time consuming especially if you had to get back to the choir.

Every resource I have found refers to the Server's robes as sticharions. For instance, I just picked up a Altar Server's guide to the Divine Liturgy from my friend Fr Moses. In my opinion, his OCA parish is more ROCOR in style. The book calls the Server's robes Stikhar on page 2. Unless these are two different vestments. I just asked Fr Moses about taking off the sticharion and he said his server's do it (like in a ROCOR parish) but I should not do it, just do what the other servers do. I agree that taking them off would be distracting. Readers where their rasson under the Stikhar. So I thought the Stikhar was the robe.

How should I bring this fan issue up with my priest? I think he is very excited to finally be able to do it, now that he has baptized more young men into the Church. Now that you explained it I think that we shouldn't be doing it. I feel uncomfortable doing it now but all the altar server's guides or rules say to obey the priest "immediately, and without question." If I just put the fan back after the Entrance and leave the Sanctuary to go back to the Choir without him reacting, I think that would generate conversation latter, if he even noticed. There are other things about our rubrics that are weird, and I would like to see our parish be a little more traditional, not that we are liberal by an means. For instance, I think we should read more than just the cannons for the saint from the Menaion at Matins, but should at least add the cannons for the Resurrection according to the Octoechos. Maybe read Ninth Hour in the Narthex before the beginning of Vespers. More morning Liturgies for feast days instead of Vesperal Liturgies, etc. . . What should I do?

[Ryan Close]

Another thing occurred to me when I was thinking about the absence of a deacon. Our priest told us it was fine to raise our hands at the Dialogue, "Lift up your hearts." My wife and I did it for a while but no longer feel the need. It had it's place for a while, for us. Our change was organic and personal rather than being legalistic. But I latter confirmed that it is not correct for the faithful to raise their hands in this manner. The priest raises both hands for the Lord's Prayer and the deacon raises only one. The faithful raise none. This is the order. Also, according to our service books, it is the deacon who says the Amen's at the Anaphora, but at our parish, the people say it. I think the faithful are annexing, so to speak, the role of the deacon, and I don't think that is a good thing. The fan issue is just another aspect of this. Though I don't think saying "Amen" is a bad thing to do, especialy in the absence of a deacon. And judging people for personal piety is harsh and un-Christian. Yet, relating to this issue of the fans, I think this should be kept for the deacon. But, from your description, there would have to be three deacons for it to work, one doing the normal deacon's things, and two others for the two fans.

[Paul Cowan]

We only have one deacon. He is able to do all his duties without help. Do you have this book? The Liturgikon (http://www.archangelsbooks.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ANTLITURG-01) was translated and written by my Bishop His Grace Bishop Basil. You can't go wrong here. Though our bookstore sells them for $25.00 and other sites are selling them 3 times that cost.

Half our parish raises their hands half don't.

Fr. does not "have" to have the fanning to do the service.

We don't have pews either, but we do have chairs and we process up the north wall along the west wall and down the middle towards the altar. All the time people touching the fringe of Christ's garments.
You might want to go to our church's website to see if what we wear is what you are talking about. I can't imagine getting our boys to undress and then dress again before Fr. begins the service after communion and have time for us to get the censor ready. Sounds like some intersting rubrics you guys follow.

My priest says follow the book the guy wrote and you can't get it wrong. Kinda like the college professor who tells you the final exam will be on the book he published. Would you buy a differnt book?

Paul

[Owen]

Tha acolyte's roibe is, in fact, a diaconal sticharion, which is usually embroidered or brocade. Technically, the stole (orarion) is a vestment proper to deacons and subdeacons, and acolytes should not be wearing any stole at all. At my (Greek) parish, we recently got the acolytes new brocade sticharia, and they wear these without stoles of any kind; this is proper.

[Michael Astley]

3) Also, some rules for Altar Servers, including the one made by St John Maximovhich say that Altar Servers must take off their server robes (sticharion) before receiving Holy Communion. We have never been directed to do this at our parish. But I saw this at the ROCOR parish I just visited. Shouldn't I ask my priest if I can take of my robe before receiving communion? And if so would I need a blessing before taking it off and putting it back on? Do all changes of vesture have to take place in the vestry? And is it possible that a server may only wear the robe when he needs it and not throughout the Liturgy if he is not in the Altar for whatever reason, because he is in the Choir for instance?

Dear Ryan,

The custom with which I am familiar is as you describe. The way in which we vest and the liturgical functions that we perform, whether lay, monastic, choir, minor clergy, or major clergy, are all part of the sacramental life of the Church. Therefore, when we receive the Mysteries, we vest according to our order: bishops receive as bishops, priests receive as priests, deacons as deacons, laymen as laymen, and so forth.

Properly, vestments are for the clergy. Traditionally, those who served in the altar would have all been ordained, at least to minor orders, and would have vested accordingly to perform their respective liturgical functions. As it was told me, when the order of acolyte fell into general disuse and it became the custom for laymen to serve in the altar, the tradition was retained of having them vest. However, this is really a concession because of the particular liturgical role that they are fulfilling and should not be understood as normative. Therefore, laymen still receive the sacraments as laymen, and a layman serving in the altar should remove his stikhar in order to confess, receive Communion, and so forth according to his order within the life of the Church. In the same way, a reader, subdeacon, deacon, or priest who is present at a Liturgy but not serving will vest during the Lord's Prayer in order to receive Communion. For him to do otherwise - to approach the chalice to receive Communion, the pinnacle of the Christian life as it can be realised on earth, dressed as something that he is not, seems to me to devalue his order, life, and ministry as a priest/layman/whatever else within the Body of Christ.

In Christ,
Michael

[Michael Astley]

I can't imagine getting our boys to undress and then dress again before Fr. begins the service after communion and have time for us to get the censor ready. Sounds like some intersting rubrics you guys follow.

It isn't difficult, Paul. The servers can begin to remove their stikhars during/after the Lord's Prayer, which is the usual time for altering of vestments for Communion. If there is no deacon, then perhaps one server can remain vested long enough to present the hot water to the priest, before removing his stikhar. The priests and deacons receive Communion in the altar, during which the servers leave the altar and join the faithful in venerating the icons and asking forgiveness. Then the veil and doors are opened and the chalice is presented to the people. The faithful then receive in order on the solea: subdeacons, readers, monastics. You just need to make sure that the servers are the first to receive Communion after the monastics, (or after the minor clergy if you have no monks or nuns at your church). As soon as they have received Communion, they go straight back into the altar and put their stikhars back on while the rest of the faithful are communicated. This way, they are vested and ready with the censer long before the Communion of the people is over. There are some Sundays when there are only 10 or so communicants at my parish, and even then we still manage to vest and be ready with the censer after Communion. It doesn't take long at all, especially as there is no need at this point to seek a blessing from the priest to vest/divest.

I hope this helps.

In Christ,
Michael

[Paul Cowan]

Thank you Reader Michael, it does.

A twist to our routine is our servers also help Fr. hold the napkin and the prosphora, so we are all busy "working" during communion. If we have 2 priests, that means an additional 1 or 2 working positions if we do or do not have a deacon.

Paul

[Brian Patrick Mitchell]

This is the first I've heard of servers "divesting" for communion. It's not done at the OCA cathedral in Washington, DC, where I serve, or at the ROCOR cathedral in Washington, DC, where I have served, or any other church where I've served, from Johannesburg to Houston. It doesn't make much sense to me, especially the part about divesting during the Lord's Prayer, when we should all be PRAYING.

I would assume that from the start, there were non-ordained men and boys helping out during the service, and when vestments came into vogue, they were duly blessed to don them and kept them on until the end of the service. What's wrong with that?

In Christ, Dn. Patrick

[Father David Moser]

1) At our parish, OCA, our priest wanted to have the servers, myself and two other men, on a rotating basis, hold the fans over the Holy Gifts during the consecration.

This is properly the task of the deacon. If you choose to bring this up to the priest, then so some liturgical research and ask him as a question about what you have read/seen elsewhere. The important things are first that you ask him about this (rather than tell him). Asking denotes that you want to be able to learn something and are not challenging his place as the priest. Second is the necessity of doing some reading other than just asking on this forum so that you have authoritative sources upon which to base your question. All this communicates respect for your priest.



2) Is the Great Entrance with Procession into the nave the Athonite practice? I just visited dear friends at a ROCOR parish and they did a Great Entrance on the ambo.


This is the difference between Russian and Greek style in general (not just Athonite practice). Russians always do the "short version" and Greeks always do the "long version".


3) Also, some rules for Altar Servers, including the one made by St John Maximovhich say that Altar Servers must take off their server robes (sticharion) before receiving Holy Communion. We have never been directed to do this at our parish. But I saw this at the ROCOR parish I just visited. Shouldn't I ask my priest if I can take of my robe before receiving communion? And if so would I need a blessing before taking it off and putting it back on? Do all changes of vesture have to take place in the vestry? And is it possible that a server may only wear the robe when he needs it and not throughout the Liturgy if he is not in the Altar for whatever reason, because he is in the Choir for instance?

The sticharion is properly the vestment of the reader (and with additions of the higher clergy). One should receive the sacraments vested according to one's position. Therefore a reader would receive vested in the sticharion as it is proper to his office. Altar servers who are not readers should take their sticharia off before receiving. And no, it is not necessary to get a blessing to remove and replace it in this situation. It is however proper to get a blessing to put on the stichar at the beginning of the service and a blessing to remove it at the end.

Fr David Moser

[Brian Patrick Mitchell]

The sticharion is properly the vestment of the reader (and with additions of the higher clergy). One should receive the sacraments vested according to one's position. Therefore a reader would receive vested in the sticharion as it is proper to his office. Altar servers who are not readers should take their sticharia off before receiving. And no, it is not necessary to get a blessing to remove and replace it in this situation. It is however proper to get a blessing to put on the stichar at the beginning of the service and a blessing to remove it at the end.

Father, what about readers who are not serving in the altar, but singing with the choir or worshipping with the people, because there's no need or room for them in the altar? Is the cassock not enough? Is the sticharion not reserved for altar service? That is the rule we observe in DC, and I have not until now heard or read anything against it.

[Father David Moser]

Father, what about readers who are not serving in the altar, but singing with the choir or worshipping with the people, because there's no need or room for them in the altar? Is the cassock not enough? Is the sticharion not reserved for altar service? That is the rule we observe in DC, and I have not until now heard or read anything against it.

What I have seen is that readers who plan to receive but who do not vest to serve will have a sticharion blessed at the beginning of the service then set aside until the Our Father at which time they will put it on to receive the mysteries appropriately attired. This is the same as one would see for deacons or priests who are not serving but who wish to receive (deacons vest fully while priests don stole, cuffs and phelon only).

Fr David Moser

[Michael Astley]

Thank you Reader Michael, it does.

A twist to our routine is our servers also help Fr. hold the napkin and the prosphora, so we are all busy "working" during communion. If we have 2 priests, that means an additional 1 or 2 working positions if we do or do not have a deacon.

We do that as well, Paul. My parish priest was trained to serve without servers, and this is what my parish was accustomed to for years, so it is no difficulty for them to manage the chalice and houseling cloth for a minute or so before a server is able to vest and come back out to assist. However, as we have minor clergy who receive Communion vested, we usually receive Communion first and then hold the cloth so there is no gap. As for the zapivka, this is at a table off to the side of church, and the people help themselves, first by taking a sip of the wine, which they then pass to the next communicant, and then by taking a portion of the prosphora. You can see a similar arrangement in this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Zapivka.jpg) photograph on Wikimedia. This is also the practice of our cathedral in London, although there they do have a server on hand at the zapivka table, but only to top up the wine when it begins to run out due to the larger number of communicants that they have there. I wish we had so many communicants that we needed a server on hand at the zapivka table, but alas, we don't.


This is the first I've heard of servers "divesting" for communion. It's not done at the OCA cathedral in Washington, DC, where I serve, or at the ROCOR cathedral in Washington, DC, where I have served, or any other church where I've served, from Johannesburg to Houston. It doesn't make much sense to me, especially the part about divesting during the Lord's Prayer, when we should all be PRAYING.

Dear Father Patrick,

The sense behind it is what I tried to explain, perhaps not very well, in my earlier post. The concession of vesting laymen in clergy vestments to perform liturgical functions does not extend to receiving Communion.

As for vesting at the Lord's prayer, this is what I have seen done everywhere where there have been non-serving major or minor clergy who wish to receive Communion*. It is at the Lord's Prayer that the rubrics require the deacon to adjust his orar so that it is wrapped around him rather than hanging back and front. When Archbishop Kyrill visited my parish for the second time last year, he did not serve. It was not a pastoral visit but he was simply on holiday and wished to quietly pray. So he stood in the altar and, at the Lord's Prayer, he vested for Communion. This is also my custom as a reader if I visit a parish where I do not serve, as Fr David describes.

This makes sense to me. In his treatise on the Lord's Prayer, St Cyprian of Carthage tells us that this prayer is the source of all Christian Prayer (indeed, the Saviour said, "When you pray, pray thus"), and that it is only through our common Baptism into Christ, into the life of the Church, that we receive the adoption of sons and are thus able to call upon God as Father. So it seems to me that, when we say "Our Father", we are claiming our place within the life of God's family, the Church, and this seems a very appropriate time to vest according to our order within the life of that Church in order to take part in the fullest expression on earth of our place within the life of that Church: Holy Communion. So we make the customary prostration/reverence at the beginning of the Lord's Prayer, and then vest/divest accordingly. This does not stop us from praying. Vesting becomes like brushing one's teeth after a while, and does not require the depth of concentration that would prevent a person from being able to pray. After all, priests and deacons pray their vesting prayers while they vest and this doesn't seem to cause any problems.

*The one exception to this is at an annual pilgrimage to a holy site, which is in an isolated village in muddy countryside, and to which people usually travel some considerable distance to reach, often car-pooling. Because of the space constraints and the danger for damage, some of the non-serving clergy do not bring vestments and simply receive in their cassocks. However, this is the exception rather than the rule.

In Christ,
Michael

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Father Patrick and others,

The two practices you’ve queried—of servers divesting to receiving communion, and of readers and subdeacons not serving in the altar vesting to receive—are a point of variance between standard practice in the OCA and the ROCOR and parts of the broader Russian Orthodox Church. I have never, in my experience, seen either practice followed in OCA parishes, where servers almost universally remain in the stikhar to receive communion, and where readers and subdeacons generally do not vest in order to receive, unless they are serving (in many places they also do not wear cassocks if not serving; but I’m happy to see this is gradually changing).

In the Russian Orthodox Church these practices are not at all unusual, and in many contexts are wholly the norm. This is especially true in the ROCOR, where both are kept fairly (though not entirely) universally—and as a matter of course you will see altar boys remove the stikhar to receive, and non-serving readers don it (generally having had it blessed and set aside before the service began, as Father David mentioned). In the broader Patriarchate, both practices vary. In some places servers will divest, in others not; and this has become something of a ‘local custom’ in various regions (so, too, with readers vesting).

Technically speaking, the question of non-serving readers and subdeacons vesting to receive is more straightforward: the norm of the Church is that those who are tonsured or ordained should always receive the Eucharist in the proper liturgical attire of their office. Hence, as Father David wrote, a priest will always don the epitrachilion and cuffs to receive, even if not serving; the deacon will always vest (a variation here exists between the Russian and Greek Orthodox traditions: in the Russian/Slavic traditions, the deacon will always vest fully to receive; in the Greek traditions a non-serving deacon will sometimes vest only in cuffs and orarion, folded cross-wise directly over the cassock). The same is true of readers, who should receive communion wearing the stikhar, and subdeacons who should receive wearing both stikhar and orarion. However, whereas this practice is universally maintained for deacons and priests, there is (as has already been said) variance as to differing traditions and regions maintaining it for readers and deacons. Local custom defines the norm in a place, as blessed by the bishop, and should be followed.

The matter of non-tonsured/non-ordained altar servers removing the stikhar to receive the gifts is different. (To clarify, there is no tradition [of which I know!] of removing the vestments for the Our Father: I think Paul was simply noting a possible time that this might happen in practical terms; i.e. since that’s also when deacons often switch from open to crossed orarion, it’s a time when others might also change their vestments—though in my experience servers normally wait until the time of communion itself: setting out the zapivka, etc., and then removing their stikhar [which takes only a matter of seconds] before going out to await communion.) I am not an expert on the history of liturgical development, so will await further details and correction from others, but it seems to me that the practice relates to a differentiation between proper liturgical vestments on the one hand, and what we might call ‘decorative garments’ on the other.

Liturgical vestments are a sign of the office and iconography of the ordained orders—reader, subdeacon, deacon, priest, bishop—conferred upon a person at his ordination and serving as the distinct sign of his liturgical office and role. The distinctive vestment of the first order is the stikhar (the half-phelon is a ‘sign of things to come’, as the wording of the service implies; but is not a reader’s vestment per se). That of the subdeacon is the angelic (i.e. crossed) orarion). That of the deacon is the ministerial (i.e. open) orarion. That of the priest is the epitrachilion, or ‘anointed orarion’ (i.e. that sewn across the chest, symbolising the anointing of Aaron, flowing as oil down his beard). That of the bishop is the omophor. And, as I mentioned a moment ago, these distinctive vestments of office are always worn by the clergy when receiving the mysteries—even where the other liturgical vestments, important to celebration but not the distinctive signs of office (e.g. the priest’s phelonion, the bishop’s sakkos) are not worn.

What non-ordained altar servers wear, however, are not so much vestments proper (which are, again, signs of ordained office conferred at ordination) but ‘liturgical garments’ or ‘decorative garments’ worn during liturgical services. They are donned in order to draw the server away from himself and into the service, as well as to conform him to the iconography of the service as a whole. Yet these garments are distinct from vestments proper. Despite the fact that an altar server’s robe looks like a stikhar, and we even call it a stikhar (or ‘server’s stikhar’), it is not technically the same garment as the proper stikhar vestment (a fact even maintained in their proper design: a server’s stikhar is sewn at the sides, rather than being fastened with buttons on open sides; and it does not have a cross in the ‘yoke’—i.e. the portion on the upper back, between the shoulder blades).

This distinction is, it seems to me, tied to the tradition of servers removing their robes at communion. One is not supposed to ‘decorate’ oneself for communion: one is to come as one is, in humility, to the chalice. For the clergy, this means in the signs of one’s office, since in the Church this is who one is: to remove the vestments or not commune in them, is to appear not as one plainly is, but as something other. The decorative garments worn by servers, however, are removed; for these are adornments, liturgical decorations, and to come plainly, simply to the chalice means to remove such decorations. At the moment of communion, the servers are no longer actively participating in the ‘iconography’ of the service: they step aside, outside the altar, to receive and to commune in the Lord. The decorations employed to unite them to that iconography are no longer required, and at that moment not appropriate—and hence removed.

But again, as I said to begin, this is a practice that varies amongst the local traditions in the Church. For example, in the Moscow Patriarchal parishes here in the UK, it is not normally kept, and servers normally remain vested throughout.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Ryan Close]

Thanks,


We don't have pews either, but we do have chairs and we process up the north wall along the west wall and down the middle towards the altar. All the time people touching the fringe of Christ's garments.

But what about the people at the middle of a row of "chairs"? How do they get to the priest to touch his "garment"? And what about the people along the "south" wall? I have seen this at Greek parishes and haven't liked it. Our procession goes out the North doors straight into the people who make room for him. We passes the central anoloy by about eight feet and then turn left. Then turn left again when we are in front of the south doors and pass along the south wall. Then return to the center to stand on either side of the Royal Doors. Everyone can reach the priest carrying the gifts. If there are pews, or chairs, maybe it is best to just do the Great Entrance on the Amvon. Also, how can you do prostrations during the Prayer of St Ephriam and the Cannon of St Andrew? When I was a pentecostal we stepped out of the pews, or chairs, to jump up and down. Is this what happens? I can imagine the aisles getting rather crowded.


I can't imagine getting our boys to undress and then dress again before Fr. begins the service after communion and have time for us to get the censor ready. Sounds like some intersting rubrics you guys follow.

We don't do this. I found it the rule for Altar Servers by St John Maximovhich. I have also seen it in person at a ROCOR parish and was wondering if I should take off my "server's robes" when the Bishop comes. If you look up "sticharion" or how ever it is spelled at Orthodoxwiki you may find that the server's robes are called by the same name, even though the deacons and the priests version of it are designed differently.

[Ryan Close]

Michael,


Properly, vestments are for the clergy. Traditionally, those who served in the altar would have all been ordained, at least to minor orders, and would have vested accordingly to perform their respective liturgical functions. As it was told me, when the order of acolyte fell into general disuse and it became the custom for laymen to serve in the altar, the tradition was retained of having them vest. However, this is really a concession. . .

This is how I see it as well. Let me share with you a longish excpert from my rule for Altar Servers:

+ + + 1. INTRODUCTION & HISTORY + + +

1.1 Tradition and History tell us that from early in the Patristic or Byzantine era and beyond, not even the clergy went into the Sanctuary, where the Holy Altar (Thisiastirion) was, for liturgical services other than the Divine Liturgy. Other services, such as Matins, Vespers, Baptisms, and Vigils, were celebrated in specified areas of the cathedral: the atrium, the baptistery, the exo-narthex, the narthex. These services were not even celebrated in the nave, much less before the Holy Altar. Each sacred space had its own liturgical function, and the Sanctuary was reserved for the greatest and holiest celebration of the Church: the Holy Eucharist.

1.2 Consequently, admission to the Sanctuary was very restricted. Traditionally only Subdecons, Deacons, Priests, and Bishops are allowed into the Sanctuary. Keep in mind that in those days the altar was filled with multiple priests, deacons, and subdeacons, so there was no actual need to have unordained people behind the iconostasis to light candles or hold a censer. There were, however, plenty of readers, chanters, door-keepers, taper-bearers, and other tonsured offices that had various liturgical roles. However, these roles did not require them to enter the Sanctuary. Such liturgical practices required more clergy and an architectural layout different from the average village chapel or contemporary parish church.

1.3 The use of young altar servers must have come about in small villages where there was only one priest and no deacons or sub-deacons. Under these circumstances, the priest needed someone to light the censer. For example, Papa Dimitri Gagastathis writes about serving in the altar as a little boy in his village in the early twentieth century. Even earlier, during the years of the Turkokratia, in which there were very few clergy of any kind, the use of lay altar servers may have been practiced. Therefore, we should never forget those first un-ordained altar servers and the awe they must have felt at taking up such an important task until then reserved for the ordained clergy.

1.4 No one should enter the Holy Sanctuary unless they are a Subdeacon, Deacon, Priest, Bishop, or they have an explicit blessing to enter for a specific purpose. Those who may enter the Sanctuary with a blessing include an iconographer and the members of the Altar Guild whether they are male of female if they have been blessed for a specific purpose. They should go about their appointed tasks with the same reverence expected of the ordained clergy during the Divine Services.

1.5 Accordingly, Altar Servers are also given a blessing to enter the Holy Sanctuary for a specific purpose. That purpose is to assit the priest, or bishop, in celebrating the Divine Liturgy. For instance, St John Maximovich blessed lay men, even young boys, to serve in the Holy Sanctuary with him and wrote a list of rules for them to obey. . .


+ + + 2. THE ALTAR SERVERS + + +

2.1 In the early church, there was once a rank of minor clergy called the Taper-bearer (analogous to the contemporary altar sever). He was responsible for bearing lights during processions and liturgical entrances. A Taper-bearer was not permitted to enter the Sanctuary, only a Subdeacon or above was allowed to go in.

2.2 Today, this rank has been subsumed by that of the Reader, thus the rites of "Setting Aside a Taper-bearer" and "Tonsuring a Reader" have now been combined into one service. Therefore, the functions of the Taper-bearer are carried out by either Readers or Subdeacons. It may also be carried out by non-tonsured men or boys known as ALTAR SERVERS (or acolytes). Thus, the Altar Server is very much like the Taper-bearer of old.

QUESTION: Should we use the rite of "Setting Aside a Taper-bearer" to prepare new Altar Servers?

2.3 Today, Altar Servers are permitted to go into the Sanctuary, but they are not permitted to touch the Altar (or Holy Table), Table of Preparation (or Prothesis or Proskomedia), or anything on them. (Or to fan the Holy Gifts above the Altar.)

[Ryan Close]

This is the difference between Russian and Greek style in general (not just Athonite practice). Russians always do the "short version" and Greeks always do the "long version".

The sticharion is properly the vestment of the reader (and with additions of the higher clergy). One should receive the sacraments vested according to one's position. Therefore a reader would receive vested in the sticharion as it is proper to his office. Altar servers who are not readers should take their sticharia off before receiving. And no, it is not necessary to get a blessing to remove and replace it in this situation. It is however proper to get a blessing to put on the stichar at the beginning of the service and a blessing to remove it at the end.

Thank you Father,

This is very interesting as I thought all along that the OCA in general and our parish in particular was more Russian than Greek. But I guess the OCA is "picking and choosing" the best of both worlds to create the best possible rubrics appropriate for our cultural context. As for the vestments, I agree but for now I will do as the Roman's do instead of pridefully displaying my rigor. Hopefully we can change this on a diocese wide level.

[Ryan Close]

Second is the necessity of doing some reading other than just asking on this forum so that you have authoritative sources upon which to base your question. All this communicates respect for your priest.

Can you suggest some resources. Proving the non-existence of a thing is quite difficult. Not that our priest is either unreasonable or liberal. He is loving and conservative.

[Brian Patrick Mitchell]

Dear Father Matthew, Reader Michael, and others,

Thank you, Father, for your expert care in explaining things. I’m certainly no authority on liturgics or liturgical vestments. I only know what I’ve seen and have been told to do. But what I have seen is quite a lot of variance on things at this level — along with a tendency for people to represent what they have seen and been told as the norm, without admitting that customs vary or providing anything to substantiate their claim of authority.

In this discussion, it seems that ROCOR practice (not practiced everywhere in ROCOR) has been presented as the right way for everyone. That may be, but we haven’t yet seen it shown that ROCOR practice goes beyond ROCOR. How far back does this practice go? Did it originate among the Russians? I’d need to know more about the evolution of liturgical vestment to put our various practices into perspective.

As it is, I don’t find the proffered rationale for ROCOR practice convincing. The Church does have a firmly established tradition for the vesting of bishops, priests, deacons, and subdeacons, but its tradition for the vesting of readers and servers is much, much weaker. Hardly anyone recognizes the stole-less stikhar as reserved for readers. If it was at one time reserved for readers, that reservation disappeared as soon as non-tonsured servers started wearing it.

I’m also not convinced that there is a difference between liturgical vestments worn by the ordained and liturgical vestments worn by the non-ordained. They are both liturgical vestments in that they are only worn liturgically. They are both also emblems of a person’s office. The server’s office is temporary but nevertheless official. When you see a young boy striding through the nave in a stikhar, you know he’s on official business. His stikhar is not merely decorative; it is his uniform of the day. It sets him apart in his own mind and in the mind of others as someone with special liturgical responsibilities.

Finally, if changes must be made to vestments during the Divine Liturgy, there are better times to do it than during the Lord’s Prayer.

Begging your pardon for disagreeing, Dn. Patrick

[Michael Astley]

Thank you, Ryan, and Fathers Matthew and Patrick, for your thoughts on the matter.

Please forgive me if I presented myself as having authority that I do not have. It was not my intention. I tried to qualify what I said with such phrases as "it seems to me" and "as it was told me", yet I realise that my written style can be somewhat forthright at times. Perhaps this is a failing of mine that needs to be addressed.

At the same time, what I have been taught by my parish priest is what I have seen elsewhere outside of my own parish, is the custom of my bishop, and has the support of one of our recently-glorified Saints. It also makes complete sense to me and, therefore, when somebody asks a question about it, as Ryan did on the previous page, this is the response that I naturally give, and I try to explain the reasoning. This doesn't mean that I am suggesting that everybody should do as the Church Abroad does. Indeed, I had never before considered that this may be seen as particularly Church Abroad custom, and Fr Matthew's post would seem to suggest that it is not necessarily so.

Perhaps it would be beneficial for me to learn more and talk less.

In Christ,
Michael

[Brian Patrick Mitchell]

I realise that my written style can be somewhat forthright at times. Perhaps this is a failing of mine that needs to be addressed.

Michael, your words above apply as much or more to me. I'll try to remember them in the future.

In Christ, Dn. Patrick

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Father Patrick,

Thank you for your reply. I don't think anyone has been proffering that the practice of altar servers removing the stikhar before communing is 'the right way and everyone should follow it'. My intention in my last contribution was precisely to show one reasoning behind why it is practiced in some places, but also to make quite clear and express that it is not practiced everywhere (including my own diocese); and others have said similarly. While I do agree with your statement on a general level, that there is 'a lot of variance on things at this level — along with a tendency for people to represent what they have seen and been told as the norm, without admitting that customs vary or providing anything to substantiate their claim of authority', I think that in all fairness this really hasn't been the case here.

As in my previous post, I don't see grounds for viewing this as a particularly ROCOR custom (though it is certainly there that it predominates); it is also found elsewhere. But St John of Shanghai and San Francisco's preference for the practice, and (as I gather) insistence upon it in his own diocese, coupled with the immense veneration for him that emerged from the Church Abroad and spread throughout the Christian world, certainly has something to due with the fact that it is a custom rather cherished in that context.

As to your comments on matters of point -- your thoughts on a variation of types of vestments (or lack thereof), the weaker historical custom for the vesting of non-ordained servers, etc. -- I certainly don't see any reason to disagree 'dogmatically' with your concerns or points; firstly on grounds that I am, again, no expert on the history of liturgical development, and secondly because there is plenty of variation in how these matters are interpreted and understood in the various local traditions of the Orthodox Church. However, it does strike me that you are being fairly dogmatic in dismissing customs and traditions rather outright, on grounds that they don't conform to those with which you are familiar. Surely the acknowledgement of local variation has to swing both ways.

Thank you, as ever, for the thought-provoking discussion.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Brian Patrick Mitchell]

However, it does strike me that you are being fairly dogmatic in dismissing customs and traditions rather outright, on grounds that they don't conform to those with which you are familiar. Surely the acknowledgement of local variation has to swing both ways.

Point taken. Something for us all to remember.

Thank you.

In Christ, Dn. Patrick

[Michael Stickles]

We don't have pews either, but we do have chairs and we process up the north wall along the west wall and down the middle towards the altar. All the time people touching the fringe of Christ's garments.

But what about the people at the middle of a row of "chairs"? How do they get to the priest to touch his "garment"? And what about the people along the "south" wall? I have seen this at Greek parishes and haven't liked it.

Normally not an issue at our parish. Those desiring to touch the garment are a minority, so they either position themselves where it will be possible, or slide into a good position as the Entrance begins. If more people were trying to reach the priest to do this, I imagine the Entrance route would be adjusted to make it possible.


Also, how can you do prostrations during the Prayer of St Ephriam and the Cannon of St Andrew? When I was a pentecostal we stepped out of the pews, or chairs, to jump up and down. Is this what happens? I can imagine the aisles getting rather crowded.

At our parish, usually the people in the chairs are the ones who have some physical difficulties, so they do metanias instead of prostrations, using the chair in front of them for support. Others do slide out into the main part of the church. Never been at a church with pews when prostrations were done, but the aisles probably do get pretty crowded. You just adjust to the space available. Trying to do prostrations in our cramped choir area is a pretty interesting challenge, even without chairs or pews!

Some of the variations in practice with regards to the altar servers probably have the same origin as the variations mentioned above - just adapting practice to the space and people available. After reading along here, I do wonder a little about one practice at our parish - the altar servers who hold the cloth for the priest receive last, and continue to hold both for themselves and the other server while doing so (i.e., one slides over in front of the priest to receive, but continues to hold the cloth on his side, and when he's done the other slides in to receive and does the same). So, they're kind of receiving and serving at the same time, and the way they do it, removing their stikhars isn't feasible anyway (I have no idea whether the servers who don't hold remove their stikhar or not).

In Christ,
Michael

[Ryan Close]

The altar servers who hold the cloth for the priest receive last, and continue to hold both for themselves and the other server while doing so (i.e., one slides over in front of the priest to receive, but continues to hold the cloth on his side, and when he's done the other slides in to receive and does the same). So, they're kind of receiving and serving at the same time, and the way they do it, removing their stikhars isn't feasible anyway (I have no idea whether the servers who don't hold remove their stikhar or not).

This is our practice too. But I have another quirk to add to it. Once I was at our monastery for a feast day. Father was serving the Liturgy in the Sanctuary alone and two of us who usually serve in the parish were in plain cloths. After coming out of the Royal Doors he called us over to hold the cloth in layman's cloths. Would that be weird?

[Brian Patrick Mitchell]

This is our practice too. But I have another quirk to add to it. Once I was at our monastery for a feast day. Father was serving the Liturgy in the Sanctuary alone and two of us who usually serve in the parish were in plain cloths. After coming out of the Royal Doors he called us over to hold the cloth in layman's cloths. Would that be weird?

This is sometimes done at the OCA cathedral in DC when there are not enough servers attending (which is rare). We commune servers first, however, and by rank. Adult servers hold the cloths, while the boys help with zipivka.

Just today I learned of an OCA parish in Illinois where holding the cloth is the job of pre-teen girls, designated "handmaidens," who wear white robes. See for yourself: http://www.stlukeorthodox.com/html/misc/handmaidens.cfm This would never fly at the cathedral; we take service at the chalice very seriously.

In Christ, Dn. Patrick

[Father David Moser]

This is our practice too. But I have another quirk to add to it. Once I was at our monastery for a feast day. Father was serving the Liturgy in the Sanctuary alone and two of us who usually serve in the parish were in plain cloths. After coming out of the Royal Doors he called us over to hold the cloth in layman's cloths. Would that be weird?

Actually that's a very common practice when there are not altar servers - usually those who hold the cloth are the leaders of the parish community (say the starosta/warden/president of the parish or one of the other parish council members) but really it is possible for anyone to take this role when needed. It is best, however, to have the servers do this as you can then teach them how to wipe the lips, how to deal with infants and/or fussy children, what to do if there is a drip or dribble and so on. As a general rule it is a task taken up first by the deacon then by subdeacons or readers, then by altar servers and finally by the senior members of the parish.

Fr David Moser

[Michael Astley]

This is our practice too. But I have another quirk to add to it. Once I was at our monastery for a feast day. Father was serving the Liturgy in the Sanctuary alone and two of us who usually serve in the parish were in plain cloths. After coming out of the Royal Doors he called us over to hold the cloth in layman's cloths. Would that be weird?

I don't think it's the norm but, for the sake of expediency, I don't see anything wrong with it if a priest is struggling on his own. Before I was a reader, I was once asked at the last minute to assist with the cloth while I was in civvies. It wasn't planned but the priest needed help and he knew me, so when I went for Communion he asked if I could stay and help.

[cross-posted with Fr David]

[Peter S.]

I tend to bow to the icon of Christ before entering the S door and to Theotokos entering the N door. Is it wrong? It will be difficult to change if it is. I mean the icons on the iconostasis closest to the N and S doors.

Srezna slava, Sveti Sava! (Is it correct spelled and said? :) )

In Christ,
Peter

[Owen]

I've heard it said that one shound never enter through the north door nor exit through the south door. Passing through the Royal Doors is permitted only to fully-vested clergy.

[Paul Cowan]

I've heard it said that one shound never enter through the north door nor exit through the south door. Passing through the Royal Doors is permitted only to fully-vested clergy.

Our deacon goes through the North doors after the Creed to fan the holy gifts and at the end of service before the final dismissal. He also stands in the Holy doors to read the gospel and exits them to give communion alongside the priest.

I don't think it wrong to bow to any icon if there is time to do so in the service. Our reader picks up the epistle from the Throne outside the south door, enters, gets his blessing, exits the north doors with the boys and then replaces the book on the throne when finished. He never has to enter the north door.

Paul

[Brian Patrick Mitchell]

In general, deacons exit through the north door and enter through the south door to complete a circuit around the Holy Table that begins at the High Place (before the Cross of Christ) and ends there also. But there are times when deacons and servers will exit and enter through the north door or exit and enter through the south door. For instance, when the second deacon goes out to exchange the Kiss of Peace to the first deacon, he will use only the north door.

What is never done is exiting through the south door and then entering through the north.

In Christ, Dn. Patrick

[Bogdan]

I tend to bow to the icon of Christ before entering the S door and to Theotokos entering the N door. Is it wrong? It will be difficult to change if it is. I mean the icons on the iconostasis closest to the N and S doors.

I think we get too caught up in protocol sometimes. This is how I think about it:

- Whenever possible, I bow and exit from the North door. This also means whenever possible I cross myself while crossing behind the Alter, etc. etc. I do not believe it is EVER frowned upon to ADD a bow, or a cross to anything. These are simple gestures that have vast meaning behind them. If time permits you, go for it!

- That last sentence brings me to a bigger point... "If time permits you" I think in our fervor for 'correctness' we forget sometimes that as alter servers we have responsibilities. Yes, if I have the time and opportunity, I go out the North Door. However there have been MANY MANY times where I needed to be out there at precisely a certain moment (trikiri dikiri for example) which made me drop the "bow, cross, out the north door" routine. I just straight up walked out the south door and barely made it in time at that!

The liturgy has a certain cadence and flow. Our ultimate job is to make sure all that runs smoothly. If we can throw an extra bow in there, or are forced to take one out, I believe God isn't really keeping count :)


Srezna slava, Sveti Sava! (Is it correct spelled and said? :) )

It's Srećna Slava. The truly Christ like story of St. Sava is one Serbs are extremely proud of. [ Everything else was fine :) ]

[Olga]

On the matter of entrances and exits from the doors of the iconostasis:

(Explanation: Where I live, of the dozen or so Orthodox churches with which I am familiar, only two or three are oriented with the altar facing east. Therefore, referring to northern and southern doors in churches not oriented in the "proper" way is descriptive, not geographically precise. In such churches, the "northern" door is to the left of the Royal Doors/Beautiful Gate; the "southern" door is to the right.)

The icons on the northern half of the iconostasis include the Mother of God, and the Archangel Gabriel on the door. The southern side feature Christ, and the Archangel Michael on the door. Why is this?

Gabriel is the angel of annunciation, of bringing news of beginnings of immense and essential importance in salvation history. He was the one who appeared to Zachariah to announce the coming conception of the Forerunner, as well as announcing to the Mother of God the coming conception of the Messiah. Michael is the taxiarkhos, the supreme commander of the heavenly hosts and powers, hence his frequent portrayal as a warrior. Tradition tells us that he is to lead the final battle against the forces of darkness and evil, and that he is to "assist" in the final judgement of our souls. Therefore, it is proper that his icon is on the southern side, as is the icon of Christ. Gabriel for beginnings, Michael for the end.

Given that liturgical worship is a re-enactment of heavenly worship, and a reflection of salvation history, both in time and beyond time, it makes perfect sense that entry into the nave is through the northern door, exit through the southern.

[Paul Cowan]

Gabriel is the angel of annunciation, of bringing news of beginnings of immense and essential importance in salvation history. He was the one who appeared to Zachariah to announce the coming conception of the Forerunner, as well as announcing to the Mother of God the coming conception of the Messiah. Michael is the taxiarkhos, the supreme commander of the heavenly hosts and powers, hence his frequent portrayal as a warrior. Tradition tells us that he is to lead the final battle against the forces of darkness and evil, and that he is to "assist" in the final judgement of our souls. Therefore, it is proper that his icon is on the southern side, as is the icon of Christ. Gabriel for beginnings, Michael for the end.

Given that liturgical worship is a re-enactment of heavenly worship, and a reflection of salvation history, both in time and beyond time, it makes perfect sense that entry into the nave is through the northern door, exit through the southern.

Interesting. We have Gabriel on the Deacon's south door as he was the invitation for the Theotokos. Those entering the Holy Place enter through this door. We have Michael on the Deacon's south door (exit door) as he was the one with the fiery sword preventing Adam and Eve from re-entering paradise.

For the Nave, we have 3 archs leading from the Narthex into the church. Are you saying we should not be entering through the middle largest arch way but through the south arch only? Would that not get aweful crowded when people enter and leave the church not to be able to use the central archway?

[Olga]

Interesting. We have Gabriel on the Deacon's south door as he was the invitation for the Theotokos. Those entering the Holy Place enter through this door. We have Michael on the Deacon's south door (exit door) as he was the one with the fiery sword preventing Adam and Eve from re-entering paradise.

Umm, typo, Paul? :) Though I do know of one church where I live where Michael is on the northern door, Gabriel on the southern, but I don't know the reason as to how this came about. While there are many images (originally of western origin) of Michael with flaming sword, the account in Genesis of the aftermath of the expulsion of Adam and Eve from Paradise is this:

So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life. (Genesis 3:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+3:24&version=NKJV))

No mention of Michael, and, at any rate, he is of the order of archangels, not cherubim.


For the Nave, we have 3 archs leading from the Narthex into the church. Are you saying we should not be entering through the middle largest arch way but through the south arch only? Would that not get aweful crowded when people enter and leave the church not to be able to use the central archway?

No, the entries and exits I referred to are the ones made by clergy and altarboys between the altar and the nave through the iconostasis, not the entry into the nave from the narthex by those attending the service. Sorry I didn't express myself clearly enough.

[Michael Astley]

I tend to bow to the icon of Christ before entering the S door and to Theotokos entering the N door. Is it wrong? It will be difficult to change if it is.

Dear Reader Peter,

It isn't so much a matter of right or wrong as it is personal piety. There is one widespread custom of briefly venerating the icon on the door before entering. Again, this is personal piety and, as long as it doesn't detract from the flow of the Liturgy, it seems fairly harmless to me.

In Christ,
Michael

[Michael Astley]

Our reader picks up the epistle from the Throne outside the south door, enters, gets his blessing, exits the north doors with the boys...l

Dear Paul,

Why do the boys leave the altar at this point?

In Christ,
Michael the too-curious-for-his-own-good

[Paul Cowan]

Dear Paul,

Why do the boys leave the altar at this point?

In Christ,
Michael the too-curious-for-his-own-good

The boys with cross, torches and fans lead the reader out the north door and line up as in the Little Entrance in front of the Holy Doors. Fans actually follow the reader. They all face opposing each other with the reader on the carpet between them facing the Holy Doors. After the eipstle is read they then stay out there for the Gospel to be read. Once that is complete and before Fr. begins his homily, the re-enter through the south doors and put up their equipment.

[Father David Moser]

The boys with cross, torches and fans lead the reader out the north door and line up as in the Little Entrance in front of the Holy Doors. Fans actually follow the reader. They all face opposing each other with the reader on the carpet between them facing the Holy Doors. After the eipstle is read they then stay out there for the Gospel to be read.

This is apparently a difference between Slav and Byzantine practice. In the Russian Church the candles and fans (but the not the cross, afaik) only go out for the Gospel. The epistle is read by the reader(s) in the center of the temple facing the altar, but without the accompanying "extras"

Fr David Moser

[Paul Cowan]

(but the not the cross, afaik)

Fr David Moser

please define Afaik?

[Herman Blaydoe]

please define Afaik?

As Far As I Know

[Paul Cowan]

Thanks Pooh. I don't tweet

Paul the twirp

[Michael Astley]

The boys with cross, torches and fans lead the reader out the north door and line up as in the Little Entrance in front of the Holy Doors. Fans actually follow the reader. They all face opposing each other with the reader on the carpet between them facing the Holy Doors. After the eipstle is read they then stay out there for the Gospel to be read. Once that is complete and before Fr. begins his homily, the re-enter through the south doors and put up their equipment.

Thank you for this, Paul. I have never seen this so I was just a little confused.


This is apparently a difference between Slav and Byzantine practice. In the Russian Church the candles and fans (but the not the cross, afaik) only go out for the Gospel. The epistle is read by the reader(s) in the center of the temple facing the altar, but without the accompanying "extras"

Thank you for the clariication, Father David. This seems to be a point of variance, then, in Byzantine practice, as it is not done in any of the Greek or Antiochian churches that I have visited in the UK. That said, the Antiochian churches I know tend to follow Slavic practice for the antiphons and both they and the Greek churches I know also use Russian chant predominantly so perhaps there is a Russifying trend in the Orthodox churches in Britain. And yes, to my knowledge, having the Cross carried in the entrances is a primatial privilege. In my own observations, corroborated by Archdeacon Kirill Sokolov in A Subdeacon's Manual, it is done in Liturgies where the Patriarch or other First Hierarch is serving.

In Christ,
Michael

[Paul Cowan]

In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (X)

I, your name, an altar server of _______ Orthodox Church, do solemnly promise to serve You Lord faithfully, obediently and reverently. Let nothing separate me from You. If I am weak in my faith, strengthen me. Help me to devote myself to Your Holy Gifts. Guide me in the path that leads to your Kingdom. Teach me to become a better Christian so that I may wear the altar server's robe worthily and in humility. My prayer is to serve You in all my thoughts, words and deeds and to become a better Orthodox Christian so that in all I do I may testify to Your glory. For blessed and glorified is your Holy name Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (X) Amen!

This prayer is from a couple differnet sources on the net. I will post the "server's agreement" and "parents letter of understanding" next.

Paul

[Paul Cowan]

Instead of editing out what my priest requested from this very helpful letter, I will just leave it in it's original format. This from Subdeacon Sam Slimak's (http://www.theologic.com/oflweb/inchurch/sonsserve.htm)(parent's letter of understanding).

Paul

[Paul Cowan]

This is the letter I gave each youth to read, discuss with his parents and sign
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~

Serving in the altar is an important ministry for our parish that is all too often not taken seriously enough. Serving in the altar is a privledge and an honor and with it comes responisibilities. We must all remember we are in the presence of the Holy Trinity, the Theotokos, the Saints and God's Angels when we are in church. Our actions, movements and duties must reflect this assembly of holy people. Prayer in the Orthodox Church is physical. The word 'worship' means to bend ones' whole being to the will of God. Our whole being is made up of our bodies (the physical) and our souls (the spiritual). Therefore, we use our bodies when we worship. We make the sign of the Cross, we bow both shallowly (metania) and deeply (full metania), we prostrate and of course we stand. Worship is not a spectator sport.

What is an altar server? An acolyte assists the Deacon, Priest and/or Bishop with their responsibilities during the services. Altar servers are learning what it is to one day be a member of the clergy. It is a priveledge; not a right.

A prayer before entering and vesting in your robe.


In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (X)

I, your name, an altar server of _______ Orthodox Church, do solemnly promise to serve You Lord faithfully, obediently and reverently. Let nothing separate me from You. If I am weak in my faith, strengthen me. Help me to devote myself to Your Holy Gifts. Guide me in the path that leads to your Kingdom. Teach me to become a better Christian so that I may wear the altar server's robe worthily and in humility. My prayer is to serve You in all my thoughts, words and deeds and to become a better Orthodox Christian so that in all I do I may testify to Your glory. For blessed and glorified is your Holy name Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (X) Amen!

Rules while serving during the services

1) Servers must be vested at least 5 minutes before the beginning of the Liturgy. You wil be asked not to serve if you arrive after 9:55 am for the Divine Liturgy. Be respectful of God's time by being on time
2) Learn the order of the Divine Liturgy so that you know what comes next. Pay attention!
3) No shorts. Shoes or sneakers should be dark colored; no white shoes.
4) Memorize the Creed ( I believe...) and the Lord's Prayer (Our Father...); stand and recite them at the proper times.
5) We are encouraged and expected to do the same movements the priest does during Liturgy. Stand, bow, kneel, sing & pray along with the priest and keep your mind on the service. Read along in the service book if needed.
6) Washrooms should be used before service and not during services. (Remove your robe, wash your hands.)
7) If you unnecessarily talk, fool around or horse play, you may be asked not to serve the following Sunday.

The altar area is the most Holy place in church. It is not a place to play in, hang out, talk or a way to hide out from participating in the services. By you and your parent signing this agreement, they have discussed this with you and you agree to fully participate in and respect the Divine Services while behind the altar. You are allowed to sit occassionaly and move around minimially but not to the distraction of others. You may whisper as long as you are discussing the service and your responsibilities to serve.

Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. Matthew 5:8
The pure in heart are completely devoted to the worship and service of God and accept no compromises.

______________ ___________________ ___________________ ________________
Print your name Sign your name Your parents signature Today's date

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~

Initially, I had some success with this. But with all good intentions, I am back to being a disciplinarian.

Paul

[Paul Cowan]

The DVD of the presanctified liturgy (http://www.wadiocese.com/enews.php?id=30) put out by the Western American Diocese of the Russian Church Outside Russia shows the priest carrying the gifts at eye level during the presanctified liturgy but the censer is carried by a server. We are beginning work on a DVD for the Divine Liturgy which should provide those same visuals for the regular liturgy, and so you should see a deacon carrying the gifts and censer as described - but we are still in preproduction so it will be a while.

Fr David moser

Fr. David,

Do you know if this project was completed and availble? Thank you

Paul

[Father David Moser]

Fr. David,

Do you know if this project was completed and availble? Thank you

Paul

No, its kind of stalled as I haven't had the time to pursue it lately.

Fr David

[Nektarios]

How come I have heard of Acolytes wearing the Orarion like a subdeacon some times?

In Christ
Nektarios

[Olga]

It is the norm in Greek churches for altar servers to wear an orarion as would a subdeacon. No idea why, but that's what they do. Acolytes in Slavic traditions wear a stikharion only.

[Nektarios]

I have never seen an Acolyte in either the Slavic or Greek Churches wear a Orarion. Doesn't this confuse an Acolyte for a subdeacon? I only wear the Sticherion when I serve the Holy Altar.

In Christ
Nektarios

[John Konstantin]

Why would their be any confusion? It is not about status, it is about function. In the case of non-subdeacons wearing an orarion they may be functioning as subdeacons for that liturgy or in the case of young boys, perhaps it maybe just local custom that they are blessed for.

This is one of the distinctions I have noticed with the Latins. We are ordained 'to do' rather than ordained 'to be'.

[Olga]

I have never seen an Acolyte in either the Slavicor Greek Churches wear a Orarion.

I am simply drawing from my close to 50 years' observation, which includes having attended services at every Greek, Russian and Serbian parish in the city where I live, a dozen Greek churches , not counting the others. All the Greek altarboys wore oraria over their stikharia, and still do.

[Anthony Stokes]

I am simply drawing from my close to 50 years' observation, which includes having attended services at every Greek, Russian and Serbian parish in the city where I live, a dozen Greek churches , not counting the others. All the Greek altarboys wore oraria over their stikharia, and still do.

This is true, but usually, the Greek servers wear the orarion in a different way than ordained subdeacons. Instead of crossing in the front, the sides hang down.

Sbdn. Anthony

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

I am simply drawing from my close to 50 years' observation, which includes having attended services at every Greek, Russian and Serbian parish in the city where I live, a dozen Greek churches , not counting the others. All the Greek altarboys wore oraria over their stikharia, and still do.

Our senior subdeacon always wears his orarion when he puts on his stichar.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[David Lanier]

Perhaps this isn't the best thread for this question but what is the proper form of the Great Entrance during the Pre-Sanctified Liturgy? I have seen in some parishes where the altar servers enter walking backwards, always facing the Gifts, and others where they enter walking forwards, or where all but the one holding the censer are walking forwards.

[Father David Moser]

The altar servers should be walking forwards. If there is a deacon, the he and he alone will walk backwards censing the gifts. If there is no deacon, no one walks backwards. I'm guessing the practice of everyone going backwards is simply a misunderstanding or lack of training and so the servers imitate what a deacon would do.

One possible difference here between Slav and Byzantine practice is that instead of a deacon, perhaps a subdeacon might walk backwards and cense in Byzantine practice (but not in Slav practice) because of the difference in how subdeacons are utilized in the services between the two traditions. But again, only the deacon (or perhaps subdeacon, I don't know) who is censing the gifts would walk backwards - everyone else faces forward.

Fr David Moser

[David Lanier]

Thanks Fr. David. We normally have only two altar servers, one just recently ordained a sub-deacon, and we also now have one of our parishioners who was just ordained a deacon.

[Father David Moser]

Noting then that you are in the OCA, the newly ordained deacon, if he serves, will walk backwards while censing the priest carrying the gifts during the entrance. The rubrics specifically indicate the the deacon is given the aer as in the regular liturgy, but does not carry either the chalice or the paten during the presanctified but only the priest (or priests if there is more than one) do so.

Fr David

[Nektarios]

Why would their be any confusion? It is not about status, it is about function. In the case of non-subdeacons wearing an orarion they may be functioning as subdeacons for that liturgy or in the case of young boys, perhaps it maybe just local custom that they are blessed for.

This is one of the distinctions I have noticed with the Latins. We are ordained 'to do' rather than ordained 'to be'.

Subdeacon, I was thinking this just because they would look the same. I am not sure the duties of subdeacons in other parishes but in mine I would just assume I would be doing the same thing I do now just as a subdeacon instead of an Acolyte. Unless the bishop came to visit of course.

In Christ
Nektariso

[John Konstantin]

Subdeacon, I was thinking this just because they would look the same. I am not sure the duties of subdeacons in other parishes but in mine I would just assume I would be doing the same thing I do now just as a subdeacon instead of an Acolyte. Unless the bishop came to visit of course.

In Christ
Nektariso

In which case I am still not sure why there would be confusion. You would know if you are a subdeacon or not, so would your priest, so would your congregation. As for duties, that is entirely up to your priest. I am kept in the choir and let out for hierarchical liturgies.

[David Lanier]

Thanks again Fr. David.

Nektarios and Subdeacon John, from what I am told, the only real difference between a subdeacon and an acolyte is that subdeacons are allowed to touch the objects on the holy table which basically means they can change the candles without having to get the priest or deacon to take them off the altar table first.

Perhaps there are other privileges that subdeacons have?

[Michael Astley]

Thanks again Fr. David.

Nektarios and Subdeacon John, from what I am told, the only real difference between a subdeacon and an acolyte is that subdeacons are allowed to touch the objects on the holy table which basically means they can change the candles without having to get the priest or deacon to take them off the altar table first.

Perhaps there are other privileges that subdeacons have?

That's correct, David. Subdeacons may also touch the Oblations table and place items upon/remove items from it.

M

[Nektarios]

I guess aside from the Holy oblations I pretty much do the subdeacon role just as a 25 year old acolyte.

In Christ
Nektarios

[Michael Astley]

For anybody who is interested, there is a guide now available here (http://www.newmartyr.info/serversguide.html).

It started life as a guide for servers at my parish but I was encouraged to produce something for more general guidance, that could be used in any parish. However, after some efforts in that direction, it became apparent that, not only would the inclusion of all the myriad of possible variations be incredibly time-consuming and turn the guide into a study book for use at home rather than the handy, practical guide that it was intended to be, which could be quickly glanced at during the course of a Liturgy, but also such a venture would be beyond my knowledge and capabilities. Also, it meant that some of the directions that would be needful for my parish's servers due to the peculiarities of our building and circumstances would have to be omitted, thus reducing its usefulness to the very people for whom it was intended in the first place.

Therefore, I have reverted to the original plan and have produced a guide for the servers at my parish. Please feel free to take as much or as little from it as you find helpful, even if that means none at all.

In Christ,
Michael

[Paul Cowan]

Outstanding work Michael. I appreciate your gift of sharing.

I got a chuckle out of this observation.

a happy baby makes for a good communicant.

So true. Our priest of blessed memory used to tell parents to hold the squirmy child as if he was in a car seat. (facing forward)

Thanks again for your time, energy and effort nto producing this booklet. Well done!
Paul

[Michael Astley]

Paul, that's incredibly kind of you!

Thank you for your kind words. I just hope that it is of some use to people.

I have seen parents bring babies just as you describe, but when I try to put the cloth under their chins, they turn their heads away and begin to cry. Perhaps I'm just one of those people that children find frightening. :)

M

[Paul Cowan]

AHH, but there is a trick to dealing with fussy children. It takes 3 fully armored police officers and the mom to accomplish this.

As the napkin is placed under the child's chin and momma is holding him face forward, one cop reaches under and handcuffs the kid's hands together so he can't grab the napkin and pull it from the priest's hands. The second cop grabs his legs and hog ties him so he can't kick the chalice while the third cop grabs the upper and lower jaw and pulls them open so the priest can fling the Gifts in there and then he squirts alum in there so he puckers so much he can't spit it out. Of course before any of these extreme measures have to be taken, It's always just easier to tazer the kid and then he doesn't put up a fight.

At least that's what they did to me.

Paul

[Vladimir L.]

Dear Fr David thank you for your very accurate statement about Liturgists they are indeed few and far between.I have been a Sub deacon for over 20 years and certainly Archbishop Anthony,Metropolitan Philaret,Protodeacon Nikita Chakirov of blessed memory were the best in this area from a practical point of view as is Fr Eugene Burbello in the Synodal cathedral in New York .I could also recommend a book in Russian known as the New Scroll but i do not know if Jordanville have translated it into English.Finally my father has a copy of a Russian book called the Table book for Priests,a pre revolutionary book published in Russia by Bulgakov(not the Paris Bulgakov) which goes into great detail on various liturgical questions.