Strife in an unequal marriage

[Linda]

Greetings,

I don't know if "unequal" marriage is the correct terminology.

I grew up evangelical. I married a man who did not claim to be a Christian, but who a few years ago became an evangelical.

He is totally committed to this new path and is constantly invited into leadership positions in the churches we attend. He is greatly admired by his peers and considered a wise counselor.

Over a year and a half ago, I became convinced that the Orthodox Church is the true Church.

This caused a tremendous uproar in my marriage (naively, I was not expecting that).

Things have calmed down since then, but my husband still hopes I will "see the light" and renounce any belief I have that is different from his.

He has not forbidden me to attend an Orthodox Church but I know life would be made miserable for me if I did.

Also, he has strictly forbidden me to talk about anything regarding the Orthodox Church with our 6yo child and most definitely would not allow me to take our child to an Orthodox Church.

I have received two very different counsels regarding this situation and this is my dilemma.

1. Just continue praying and keeping the peace (I never bring up the subject with my husband).

2. Bite the bullet and go to an Orthodox Church. Endure whatever ensues (which would most definitely be great turmoil).

Help please. Thank you!

In Christ,
Linda

[Cyprian (Humphrey)]

Wow. This really is a pastoral type question that requires a lot of wisdom. Is there an Orthodox priest that you know that you could talk to (eg. pastor of the Orthodox Church you are contemplating going to)? There are many aspects here that can't really be brought across by text on a screen, so the advice you'll get here will be predominately theoretical.

Although I am a monk now, I was not always one (actually, that's fairly obvious if you think about it - no one is born a monk or nun!). I was indeed married once, and had a similar situation. I can tell you what doesn't work: behaving like an overly zealous convert and trying to argue your spouse into the Church. I think I ended up doing more harm than good, and it's something I will always have to repent of. Pray for me.

The only thing I can think of is try to find a level-headed priest who knows both of you, or is willing to try to engage your husband in friendship, and follow his advice. The important thing is that it be someone who knows you. That relationship will be key as it will give him insights into the persons who are undergoing the stresses and trials that you are.

For example, since he has forbidden you to speak to your son about it, are there control issues and personality disorders here, or is it a more biblical thing, asking a wife to respect his wishes, even if it is hard to do so? You should really get in touch with a local priest and develop a pastoral relationship with him.

Sorry, I can't be of much more help. Maybe some of the wiser people here can. There are LOTS of people here that are smarter than I am - thankfully.

Keep us updated, as we will keep you in our humble prayers.

Fr Cyprian

[Linda]

since he has forbidden you to speak to your son about it, are there control issues and personality disorders here,...?

Yes, there are. You are very insightful. Thank you so much.

Great advice. Thank you.

In Christ,
Linda

[Anna Brenneis]

Christ is Risen!!!

Wow, Linda! You certainly do have a challenge on your hands. I have some thoughts you may wish to consider, but hopefully one of the wonderful Priests on these boards will chime in. Where are you, Father David??

One very good thing is that both of you believe in God. Thank the Lord for that!

Another wonderful advantage is that you have access to the intercession of the Mother of God and the Saints. Even if you are not yet a member of the Church, you can pray night and day to God and His Holy Mother and His Saints for help, and they will most assuredly help you. I would ask for patience, patience, patience and faith, faith, faith!

Remember that the Evil One does not want either you or your husband to be Orthodox. The Evil One is your enemy, not your husband. Thank God that your husband is also interested in saving his soul. That is a huge step in the right direction!

My own husband only became Orthodox so we could marry in my Church. Although he was never antagonistic about my being Orthodox, we both had trouble adjusting because he did not care much about the Church, although that is slowly changing.

Here are some bits of advise I received from Priests that have helped us a lot:

Do whatever you can to keep peace in your home. For the time being, ask your husband nicely if he will "agree to disagree" with you for a while so that you can both see where the Holy Spirit leads. Avoid fighting over religious matters.

Be extra nice and accommodating toward your husband in every way you can. Don't let him forget that you love him. Remember that we live the Gospel through our actions and not necessarily our words, and that charity (love) begins at home.

Whatever you do, don't keep your belief in the Orthodox Faith a secret from your husband, but don't be "in his face" about it, either.

As I said, some Priests I know have been immensely helpful with their advise and prayers. Find a local Orthodox Priest that you trust and keep in frequent contact with him. Don't complain about your husband's church activities and he will be nicer about your own. I would definitely ask the Priest/advisor about simple, quiet things you can do to advance your path to Orthodoxy without agitating your husband.

Saint Seraphim of Sarov tells us to save ourselves and we will save thousands around us. If you concentrate upon your own salvation, your entire household will be blessed.

We have the relics of a powerful modern saint, Archbishop John (Maximovitch), at my cathedral parish. I will put your name on the list for prayers there.

Please keep us informed of how you are doing.

[Linda]

Anna,

Thank you so very much, especially for the prayers!

I am happy to tell you we never fight about religious beliefs and I never bring up the subject. I don't want to get in the way of the Holy Spirit!! :-)

Thank you so very much, again.

[Amy]

Linda,

My prayers are with you.

I come from a similar path ~ being raised Evangelical, marrying a man (also a christian) and worshipping in a Methodist or Baptist Church for years.

About 5 years ago I left our dying Methodist Church (for many reasons) and took our young children to the nearest Orthodox church. Joys of heaven, we were received into the arms of the Orthodox church in August of last year. Through this tumultuous time, I have never doubted it to be the path God desires me to be on... even though it has caused much strife in my marriage. Actually, not caused strife, but only exacerbated it.

At present, through the healing of the sacramental life of the Church, and wise counsel from Fr. Scott (my pastor) there is peace in my home. The best advice I can share with you has already been stated -

*you will never accomplish a witness to the beauty of Orthodoxy through preaching/badgering your husband. Living a life of obedience to God is how the Holy Spirit testifies through us.

Wasn't it St. Francis who said something like, 'preach the Gospel at all times, if necessary, use words.' ?

I came to a crossroads when I realized: "The obedience God is calling me to is in direct opposition to what my husband (the head of our house) is asking of me"

This is when my husband and I went to marriage counseling and I continued to seek the advice of trusted pastors. I even tried 'quitting' church altogether for a time, to restore the peace in my house. But the conviction to train my children up well in sight of the Lord was too strong. We began to have worship at home, with many of the symbols found in the OC - prayer candles, incense, prayer books.

Anyway, I'm going on too much -- all this to say that I understand what you are going through. Presently, my husband will attend church with us occasionally and does support our children in their activities there (church school and sports) ...there is always hope.

I believe God uses our conflicts in marriage to draw us nearer to Him, to sharpen our character and produce fruit - Rejoice for your trials, no matter the heartache!

My last thought is, as your husband has forbidden you to share your Orthodox path with your daughter, this may only stem from his own fear from lack of knowledge. Be patient - and, as evangelical beliefs have their own root in the Ancient Faith, you cannot help but share your heart as you pray with your daughter.... A very simple act we (my children and I ) do is to light a candle on our kitchen table. Every time it's lit, I say, "We light this candle to remind us that Jesus Christ is the Light of the world" A simple act which may hopefully invoke a lifetime of thankfulness in our children.

[Duane]

Greetings to All Here,

I've been lurking about for a number of months, just reading and generally finding myself intimidated. However, Linda's openness prompted me to register and respond.

I too am trying to answer the strong call of the Orthodoxy, yet am meeting resistance, not only from my wife, but my teenagers as well. No matter how I try to put them aside, the prayers of the Church keep calling to me. We've attended Divine Liturgy several times, as well as Vespers and several Holy Week services. I find that attend services at our local Greek Orthodox Church envelopes my soul, and even though I cannot receive Communion (yet), I am renewed in body and soul just by being present.

I've no practical advice to offer to you, Linda, other than to second what others have said. Avail yourself of the privilege of asking the Mother of God to help you and pray for you. She will take you onto her lap, and reassure you of the love and care of her Son.

For my family, this will be a long journey I will remember you in my evening prayers today, and ask all here for a prayer on my behalf as well.

[Linda]

Thank you so much for sharing that Amy. Very helpful.

[Trudy]

At the risk of sharing something that may not be okay with the Moderator (please delete if so Matthew):

For those who may be interested, I am Co-Moderator of a discussion group restricted to those who are "Orthodox With Out My Spouse", OXWOMS. We share our stories of how we are living the Orthodox life in a home where either the spouse is non-Christian or in a different church. It is not a list for gossip, spousal-bashing, or jurisdictional arguing. It is a group for mutual support and prayer. We laugh together, cry together and rejoice together. There have even been a couple cases where the spouse now attends the Orthodox Church or has even been received!

If anyone would like more information, please feel free to email me privately.

In Christ,
Athanasia (Trudy)

[Archbishop Lazar]

It is a serious situation, but not uncommon. Time and paitience are so essential in such a situation. Part of the difficulty for your husband would be the thought of losing his "special status" within the Evangelical community, and perhaps the feeling that a wife must obey her husband and not have thoughts and views of her own. Technically, that is scriptural, but in relation to the truth of the faith that was not the intent of Apostle Paul. I would suggest avoiding arguments and conflict and continue to attend the Orthodox Church and pray about the matter. I also think that Athanasia's suggestion of the support group would be helpful. Meanwhile, I trust that all the Orthodox readers of this list will remember you and your struggle in their prayers.
Archbishop Lazar.

[Archbishop Lazar]

Most of the comments appear to be helpful. I suggest that the idea of the support group mentioned by the last writer is most helpful. Such groups can be of considerable help and comfort to one struggling in such a situation. Time and paitience (the latter a difficult thing to attain) are all that one can really council. I do hope that all those who have read your post will remember to pray for you and your family. I wonder if at least a part of the problem might be your husbands new found status, and the fear of compromising it? There is also a feeling among some that a woman must be completely obedient to a husband in all cases. However, though one might find some Scriptural justification for such a conclusion, Apostle Paul did not have compromising the truth in mind. God grant you the strength and patience to endure in peace.

[Linda]

I would suggest avoiding arguments and conflict and continue to attend the Orthodox Church and pray about the matter.

I am not allowed to attend an Orthodox Church.

That is the saddest part.

I just had a very tense, but well-maintained conversation with DH.

He let me know that "you worship your way, I'll worship mine" (as he said in an email to me) does not include my attending an Orthodox Church.

He was hoping that through the conversation this morning, and reminding me of how "disappointed" he is in my embracing the Orthodox "belief system," that he could talk me out of these beliefs.

I just kept apologizing and saying, "I understand."

Of course, he responded with, "No, you do NOT understand."

I take it from that response, that he feels if I truly did understand how he felt, I would somehow change what I believe.

I never bring up anything about my beliefs, never show any displays of my beliefs (crossing myself, etc.). I don't see how I can be any more submissive, yet I cannot change what I believe.

Lord, have mercy.

Thank you so much for your prayers.

[Amy]

Linda,

Is your husband actively reading or otherwise trying to understand the beliefs of the Orthodox church? If he is, I would be happy to recommend some books for him - or for both of you.

This was a good turn in my discussions with my husband. When he began to focus on what the actual beliefs are rather than opinion and hearsay, our conversations became much more fruitful. One way that we came to this point was just talking about history: our church experiences from the past, traditions/practices of the local church , etc. all in a non-threatening, non-judgmental way. We soon got round to the history of the church, the Christian faith and, even though dh does not embrace Orthodoxy, he has come round to appreciate some of the attitudes and practices within my local church.

I am sorry for your situation, that you feel you cannot go to an Orthodox service. If you don't mind me asking, how did you first become acquainted with Orthodoxy?

Just remember that what you are going through now will not last forever -

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake for theirs is the kingdom of heaven

I will continue to pray for you Linda.

[Amy]

Duane:

I find that attend services at our local Greek Orthodox Church envelopes my soul, and even though I cannot receive Communion (yet), I am renewed in body and soul just by being present.

Amen. What a blessing!


Just wanted you to know that I'm praying for you too, Duane.

[Nina]

Dear Linda,

You have my admiration and prayers! You must love God and your husband very much; thank you for the example you provide and your endurance!

Love in Christ,
Nina

[Paul Cowan]

I doubt this will help the conversation any, but if you need someone to pray through you might try Joanna, wife of Chuza.


Luke 8:3
and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others who provided for Him from their substance.

Luke 24:10
It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them, who told these things to the apostles.

Joanna was married to the chief steward of those that were to kill Jesus. Imagine the turmoil in that house. If there was ever a person who understands what you are going through, she will.

You can also hear this on Ancient Faith Radio under Specials under All Saints Homilies under Lazarus, Joanna and Matthew.

Paul

[Linda]

Thank you all so very much.

Duane, I missed your post before. Praying for you.

No, my husband is not at all interested in reading or learning about the Orthodox Church from me. I have some wonderful books ("Becoming Orthodox," "Thirsting for God in a Land of Shallow Wells," "Common Ground").

He has gotten his information from anti-Orthodox sources and is comfortable with that.

Paul, thank you so much for the information on Joanna. Very much appreciated.

Thank you all so very much again.

[Linda]

My husband now wants to dialogue about the Orthodox Church!

This is miraculous to me.

Thank you all so much for your prayers.

[Nina]

My husband now wants to dialogue about the Orthodox Church!

This is miraculous to me.

Thank you all so much for your prayers.

Wow! Yay!!! Thank God!

I am so happy for you both dear Linda! Glory to God! :) :) :)

[Elzabet]

Praise the Lord, Linda! I'm so glad and I will be praying his mind and heart are soft toward you.

[Archbishop Lazar]

I would suggest a copy of THE ICON AS SCRIPTURE, as it answers many of the quandaries that Protestants have with Orthodoxy. I would be happy to send you a free copy if you want to send me your mailing address. You can contact me synaxis@orthodoxcanada.org

[Paul Cowan]

I had convertitise when I joined 5 years ago. Well, I still do at times. Take this with love from experience....Baby Steps. ;)

Paul

[Amy]

Yay, Linda!! That is WONDERFUL news you share...

Praise God , Glory to Him for all things...

I will continue to pray for you and your family.

[John Charmley]

Dear Linda,

Like all of us here, my hopes and prayers are with you; and in particular, that your husband's new willingness to discuss matters with you betokens a new road along which you can both travel.

As many of the previous posts have witnessed, you are not along in your situation, and perhaps this is one reason so many of us can empathise as well as sympathise.

My own dear wife had a very considerable problem with my becoming Orthodox. This is because as the product of a very Protestant evangelical background, she turned her back on what she saw as a hurtful and judgemental system of control when she was a teenager, and has regarded Christianity with great distrust ever since. She could just about take my Anglicanism (as I was when we first met) because it seemed to her a belief in nothing more than being 'good' and 'nice' to others (itself an interesting comment on Anglicanism). My interest in Orthodoxy she found puzzling, and despite my offering her books such as that by +Kallistos and other introductions to Orthodoxy, she could not get alongside them.

She accepted my conversion because of her love for me, but still finds the whole thing a puzzle. However, the one thing that is beginning to reconcile her is the people she has met through my new Church. She constantly says these are not like the Christians she knew when she was younger, or many that she has met since. When I ask her in what way they differ, she says things like 'they just seem to give off a different aura', or 'they seem somehow better people'. That she will ever be fully reconciled to my decision is something for which I can only pray - but often, if we but knew it, the way we behave it is the best witness we can give to the Risen Lord in us.

I do hope that your conversations with your husband prove profitable for you both. My prayers are with you both.

In Christ,

John