Repression vs. indulgence

[Mourad Mankarios]

It is commonly understood that periods of repression will most often directly lead to periods of indulgence whether it is due to some form of despair, reward or weakness.

Just wondering how people think this might relate to issues within Orthodoxy such as fasting, sexuality and other forms of ascetic practices. I mean wouldn't the above in some sense challenge the whole notion of asceticism?

[Nina]

It is commonly understood that periods of repression will most often directly lead to periods of indulgence whether it is due to some form of despair, reward or weakness.

Just wondering how people think this might relate to issues within Orthodoxy such as fasting, sexuality and other forms of ascetic practices. I mean wouldn't the above in some sense challenge the whole notion of asceticism?

It does not "challenge the whole notion of asceticism".

God's grace and unceasing exercise (ascetic in Gr. means laborious, exercise) make ascetics indulgence-proof. As we read in many Elders' writings, their focus and delight is in Christ and the Uncreated Light. They indulge in prayer and self-denial because they have rejected and renounced worldly things during their vows. Worldly terms do not apply in their case.

That understanding may apply only when the protagonists are like us. I read in some magazines that after a not-so-desirable, or strenuous work "reward yourself, eat the chocolate that you deny to yourself!" Maybe even us bombarded by such worldly mindset (or advertising?) get conditioned to think this way (even those of us, who have not an enhanced preference, or cravings for chocolate).

[Mourad Mankarios]

I'm sure that this phenomenon has a lot more to do with deeper psychological habituation and needs of the individual than it does with media.

All I'm looking for is what implications such an understanding would have on an individual's ascetic life. In a sense would it be better for most people to live moderately rather than austerely. It seems that as often as we do indulge we also impose upon ourselves austere practices which not only fail to resolve our spiritual laxity in ascetic practices but can also compound the problem by a person feeling a desperate need to satisfy a gulf they've denied themselves of.

An example perhaps is the counsel St Paul gives to those who are unwed advising them that it is better to be married than to burn with passion. Hence in such a case repression was deemed unhelpful and a moderate outlet for the passion was the better option.

I'm really unsure I'm just throwing incoherent ideas around...

[Rebecca Gabl]

I noticed that at least with myself (not that I'm a good example or anything), once I've denied myself, I'm "satisfied" with a lot less when the time does come to "indulge". (such as after a long fast period) When I was at the monastery and got used to getting up at 4:30, getting up at 7 once or twice a week felt like an "indulgence". In other words, periods of "asceticism" make it easier to be moderate during less strict periods. Not quite the ascetic/patristic answer you were probably looking for, just a personal little note. :)

[Mourad Mankarios]

In my personal experience and what I've actually noticed with many others is that after a period of fasting or abstinence people will tend to indulge and satisfy themselves with all of those goodies that they denied themselves during their period of fasting or abstinence...

I believe this is even what dieticians recommend when it comes to restrictive dieting in that they don't work as banned food make dieters unhappy, and they tend to become obsessive about them leading to sudden binges.

Is it possible that we could also draw a link between certain ascetic practises and gluttony and how we can tend to fluctuate between one and the other.

It would be good to know other's experiences as well I suppose.

[Herman Blaydoe]

I tend to overeat a bit on Pascha and for a few days after, but I don't think I'm obsessing or binging. ANYTHING is possible in this fallen world, I suppose. But people in society often binge and obsess without asceticism of any kind. Asceticism is not the cause, it is the antidote. Asceticism is a good practice to whatever degree one is capable. Asceticism is really another form of exercise (spiritual exercise) and it is good to remember that there is much more to it than simply not eating certain things or avoiding certain activities. There must be spiritual activities that "fill the void" or it is empty ritual or simply a diet. If you simply stop eating or doing "things" without providing something else in its place, OF COURSE you are going to obsess about what you are "missing" and want to "binge" on them when you get the chance. But true asceticism provides spiritual activities that bring us closer to Christ, giving us something better, so that we see that we are not doing "without" but gaining something tangible.

[Paul Cowan]

I agree with Herman. Matthew 12:43-45 also.


43 “When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. 44 Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. 45 Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation.”

Unless we have something to fill the void, we will fall back into past habits worse than they were before. Believe me, been there, done that.

I believe that is why it so important to do what St. Paul says about unceasing prayer and do it the way the holy Fathers have taught us.

I have also noticed, if I do what I am instructed and do fast from food or "actions" I do not long for them as I would have without prayer replacing them. It seems strange to someone like me who was addicted to so many activities only to be freed from the desire to act on them through prayer and church life. Namely the Euchrist. In time this too shall pass. As St. Paul says, persevere.

Paul