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Mark Harrison
21-05-2007, 08:48 AM
I am afraid that I still do not have time to post at length. I did want to say, however, that I watched the signing of the Act of Canonical Communion and the Divine Liturgy at Christ the Saviour Cathedral with abundant joy on Wednesday evening (Kodiak is a full 12 hours behind Moscow). What an absolute joy! "How good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell in unity." Well, I could go on with increasingly less eloquent words, but I'm sure you get the picture.

I am wondering what happens next in practical terms? Officially, I suppose the answer is that nothing particular happens, and someone like Fr. Alexander Lebedeff would be asking me, "What would you expect to happen?" That's the problem: I'm not sure. Still, I can't ignore the gut feeling that now that the "blessed event" has taken place, there will be practical consequences, and not just for ROCOR.

Am I now allowed to partake of the Holy Mysteries in a ROCOR parish? I heard a rumour (and that's all it is) that ROCOR was not committed to being in communion with New Calendar jurisdictions. I am not sure that was a choice they had, or if the implications of reconciliation with Moscow included being in communion with those with whom Moscow is in communion. Although ROCOR is retaining an autonomous status, it is now part of the "pomyestnaya russkaya tserkov" the "local Russian Church." Refusing concelebration with those with whom the Patriarch does concelebrate would seem to be a contradiction, but perhaps I have not thought this through well enough. If there is concelebration, it follows that there is eucharistic communion. Anything else would be totally incomprehensible.

In the last year since the All-Diaspora Council approved going ahead on the path toward reconciliation, the situation in the OCA has grown steadily worse instead of better. While liturgically "by the book" it was very odd hearing the name of Metropolitan HERMAN read in the diptychs at the Liturgy on Ascension, but also the resounding "Many Years" for each ROCOR hierarch with their titles. I understand, of course, the awkwardness of the situation, and do not have any problem with it. I am only pointing out that the commemorations highlighted that situation. After all, if +HERMAN is considered the primate of a local autocephalous church, then +BENJAMIN, not +KIRILL, should be commemorated as Bishop of San Francisco. But in this sad world of ours, things are as they are, and we must focus on the joy that hatred has been overcome by love - again, and work toward straightening out the anomalies. What the liturgical commemorations suggested was that the MP is continuing to recognise the autocephaly of the OCA in terms of following the customary protocols and not interfering, but that is as far as it goes. Given the sad state of the OCA, how long can that last? Evidence so far suggests that the Russian Church inside Russia and outside of Russia is going to keep out of the OCA's business in every formal sense. But what about pastoral cases? What is going to happen when individual lay people, or whole parishes, or even an entire diocese decides that enough is enough and approaches ROCOR or the MP? Effectively, whether or not it was intended, has the MP not undermined the autocephaly of the OCA? That may not be such a bad thing. I know many people who won't shed a tear if the OCA goes belly up. Many people in the OCA have been happy about the restoration of unity in the Russian Church. Although the consequences of that restored unity for the OCA may all be unofficial, I suspect they will be there.

Likewise, how will ROCOR work with other jurisdictions in the lands where it has eparchies? It has been my strong impression for sometime now that for the Russians this has been a matter of internal healing. ROCOR has had a difficult time getting many of its people to accept the reconciliation. The recent depature of the Lesna Convent, which had long been rumoured, is evidence of this, as are the departures reported on this web-site of other ROCOR communities in Great Britain. The Russian Church, I think, will need time to heal the wounds. Much has been accomplished, and yet this is really only the beginning. The hierarchy and clergy in the Patriarchate and in ROCOR will need time to learn to effectively work together. That process has already begun with projects like the counselling centre in Beslan, a joint project between Archbishop MARK of Berlin and the local bishop, but it will really take time. Imagine what it would be like if the United States and Great Britain were to come again under a single government. Even after a hundred years of friendship and cooperation, the everyday realities would be tough. So, is ROCOR likely to be part of any efforts toward decreasing the number of jurisdictions in North America, Western Europe and Australia?

If Fathers David or Raphael, especially, or anyone else who might have something constructive to add, care to offer any thoughts, I'd love to hear them, though I can't guarantee how quickly I'll reply. I'll check back here in a couple of days. I am sorry this post is kind of rambling. My mind is more on a paper from which I am taking a little break.

Paul Fowler
21-05-2007, 10:43 AM
It was only about three years ago or so that HH Patriarch Alexei proposed setting up a Metropolia of Western Europe, bringing all the Parishes from the Russian tradition together. Whilst this idea seems to have gone on the back burner, it is certainly my hope that with the Patriarchate and ROCOR now reconciled, this may once again become a practical reality. It was seen in some quarters as an attempt to begin the process of forming an Orthodox Church for Western Europe-ie it was hoped that eventually all jurisdictions would eventually come together under one Hierarch, forming a Metropolia with different diocese(s?) covering Western Europe along geographic rather than ethnic lines.


Given that, ecclesiologically, the Patriarch of the West should also be Bishop of Rome.............


Paul F

Father David Moser
21-05-2007, 04:43 PM
I am wondering what happens next in practical terms? Officially, I suppose the answer is that nothing particular happens, and someone like Fr. Alexander Lebedeff would be asking me, "What would you expect to happen?"

I really had to smile at this, that is exactly like Fr Alexander.


Am I now allowed to partake of the Holy Mysteries in a ROCOR parish? I heard a rumour (and that's all it is) that ROCOR was not committed to being in communion with New Calendar jurisdictions.

You have always been "allowed" to receive the Mysteries in a ROCOR parish simply because ROCOR was never "out of communion" with the other national Churches. In many cases we did not concelebrate, but we never were "out of communion". Laymen have always been able to receive across "jurisdictional" lines. (caveat: there have been individual clergymen who have taken the rather extreme view that "new calendrists" could not commune - but that has never to my knowledge been the official position of the Synod)



Refusing concelebration with those with whom the Patriarch does concelebrate would seem to be a contradiction, but perhaps I have not thought this through well enough. If there is concelebration, it follows that there is eucharistic communion. Anything else would be totally incomprehensible.

This is an accurate line of reasoning - if there is concelebration, there must be communion - however the inverse is not always true, communion does not necessarily imply concelebration. The autonomous status of ROCOR allows our Synod of bishops to maintain the ability to set a standard of internal discipline regarding concelebrations.

As for the intricacies of inter-jurisdictional relations, that is best left for the hierarchs to work out while the rest of us take care of the tasks that our Lord has put before each one of us - particularly working out our own salvation (or for parish priests like myself -the working out of my salvation along with that of the flock with which I have been entrusted).

Fr David Moser

Mark Harrison
22-05-2007, 05:07 AM
A blessing, please, Father David!

Thank you for your kind response. Fr. Alexander was my parish priest for a while at St John of Kronstadt Parish in San Diego, so I know from experience how he might respond.

When I went to Joy of All Who Sorrow back then, I was told that because I was a Reader (now I am a sub-deacon), I would not be permitted to commune. That has been the basis of my understanding of the situation. I was quite aware the lay people would frequently commune in both ROCOR and OCA parishes. I attended one funeral for an elderly Russian woman who had attended both the ROCOR and OCA parish in San Diego. The funeral was served in the OCA parish and the choir from the ROCOR parish sang in the choir. It was the first time many of those people had had any social relations in almost twenty years –*since the autocephaly of the OCA. Anyway, this woman went back and forth all the time and communed in both parishes without question. I did see one ROCOR parish politely asking New Calendar Orthodox to not approach the chalice, but that was only one case.

I agree that interjurisdictional relations must ultimately be left to the hierarchy. I approach the matter with hope for and interested in increasingly positive relations. I hope that laymen in all jurisdictions will be open to mutual cooperation and good social relations, which would make the job easier for the hierarchy when they feel the time is right.

In Christ,

Sdn. Mark Harrison

Elizabeth Riggs
25-05-2007, 09:32 PM
As Piet Hein said:
Put up in a place
where it's easy to see
the cryptic admonishment
T. T. T.

When you feel how depressingly
slowly you climb,
it's well to remember that
Things Take Time.
(Grooks - http://www.chat.carleton.ca/~tcstewar/grooks/grooks.html )

Any questions about how all the things involved with the ROCOR / MP reunion will be resolved - but it will take time. Don't expect instant answers. The Orthodox Church is not Micky-D! No Instant or even Fast food [although we do have Fasting food (-: ]

I'm sure as the Hierarchs work things out, and pass their "right division of the Word of Truth" to the Priests in their Dioceses, that information will be passed on down the line.

In the meantime, I will simply stay with my priest and follow his instructions to me with trust that he is giving me appropriate direction.

Love in Christ,
Elizabeth

Angie
26-05-2007, 11:33 AM
Eliazabeth Gooday!

I would like to ask were did you get that moving clipart picture? I love it!!!

In Christ
Angela+++