Antiphons and matins

[Kris]

I have two questions (apologies if they have already been answered elsewhere):

1. What determines whether the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Antiphons are sung, rather than Psalms 102 and 145 and the Beatitudes?

2. Why do some churches perform Orthros in the evening after Vespers and others early in the morning before the Divine Liturgy?

Thank you for your time.

In XC,
Kris

[Father David Moser]

1. What determines whether the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Antiphons are sung, rather than Psalms 102 and 145 and the Beatitudes?

The rank of the feast being celebrated. Also there is a difference (I believe) between Greek and Russian practice such that what Russians use for feasts, Greeks use for normal Sundays and vice versa.



2. Why do some churches perform Orthros in the evening after Vespers and others early in the morning before the Divine Liturgy?


The first is the usual practice of Russian/Slav parishes and the latter is the usual practice of Greek/Byzantine parishes.

Fr David Moser

[Kris]

The rank of the feast being celebrated. Also there is a difference (I believe) between Greek and Russian practice such that what Russians use for feasts, Greeks use for normal Sundays and vice versa.

The first is the usual practice of Russian/Slav parishes and the latter is the usual practice of Greek/Byzantine parishes.

Fr David Moser

Bless Father,

Thank you for your reply.

Do you know what is the reason behind the difference between Greek and Slav practice r.e. Matins. What was the earliest practice and when/why did it change?

Thanks again.

In XC,
Kris

[Father David Moser]

Do you know what is the reason behind the difference between Greek and Slav practice r.e. Matins. What was the earliest practice and when/why did it change?


Well, I don't really know the answers to your questions - but I'll just share my ignorant thoughts with you in hope that you might find some value therein.

I think you have to start with the way that the Jerusalem Typicon presents the Sunday services. Sunday is a little Pascha and so always a "Great Feast". Therefore on the eve of Sunday, Vespers and Matins are celebrated together as an "All Night Vigil". The "All Night Vigil" then became the configuration of vespers and matins that most people experienced. Thus the Russians then came up with a way of combining vespers and matins on a weekday (there's a word for it that my brain won't reproduce at the moment). There is a traditional set of conventions on how to do this - but I won't try and bore you with the details.

What is the reason for all this - I dunno, it just is.

Fr David Moser

[M.C. Steenberg]

Regarding the use of the typical psalms and beatitudes at the Liturgy, as opposed to antiphons, I've just had an enlightening discussion about this with a real expert.

Technically speaking, according to the Slavic typikon, the typical psalms and beatitudes are only appointed when the celebration of the Divine Liturgy follows a matins where the great doxology is appointed, or a vigil. At Liturgies that do not follow a vigil / doxology-rank matins, either the weekday or Sunday antiphons are appointed.

However, in normal parish practice this is somewhat mitigated by the fact that in the Slavic / Russian typikon, a vigil is appointed for nearly every Sunday in the year, so the 'standard weekend form' of the Liturgy is for it to be sung with the typical psalms and beatitudes.

Exceptions are for great feasts that have their own festal antiphons appointed, which take precedence, even if the Liturgy is preceded (as it would be on a great feast) by a vigil.

The Greek practice follows a revised typikon of the late 19th century, which appoints antiphons as standard at all Liturgies (with a few exceptions), which explains the apparent reversal of practice between Greek and Russian churches on this front. (Though technically the 'standard' in the Russian tradition is still the antiphons, it's just that this 'standard' is rarely encountered in normal parish life, as all weekends are exceptions!).

INXC, Matthew

[Anthony]

The Greek practice follows a revised typikon of the late 19th century, which appoints antiphons as standard at all Liturgies (with a few exceptions),


Just as a footnote, I have read that this revised typikon was a little controversial. Mother Gavriilia (1897-1992) comments:


I like it when we say "Bless the Lord my soul" and then afterwards the Beatitudes, instead of "Through the intercessions" and "Save us". That is how we used to have it in the City [Constantinople].

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

M.C. Steenberg wrote:


Regarding the use of the typical psalms and beatitudes at the Liturgy, as opposed to antiphons, I've just had an enlightening discussion about this with a real expert.

Technically speaking, according to the Slavic typikon, the typical psalms and beatitudes are only appointed when the celebration of the Divine Liturgy follows a matins where the great doxology is appointed, or a vigil. At Liturgies that do not follow a vigil / doxology-rank matins, either the weekday or Sunday antiphons are appointed.

However, in normal parish practice this is somewhat mitigated by the fact that in the Slavic / Russian typikon, a vigil is appointed for nearly every Sunday in the year, so the 'standard weekend form' of the Liturgy is for it to be sung with the typical psalms and beatitudes.


Yes this is correct. You can also find out whether to sing the typical psalms or the daily antiphons by going to the end of each service in the Menaion. If nothing is added about verses at the Beatitudes (usually with Prokimen, Scripture readings & Communion vs) then the daily antiphons should be sung if it is a weekday and not during a pre or post festal period.

Also- I know this is one of those 'Liturgics 101' questions but isn't a Saturday night always considered vigil rank due to its being the eve of a Sunday? I don't have the time to look through all my books right now but this is what I assumed or was taught previously. This is why in the Russian tradition typical psalms would always be sung on Sunday.

Also as to Fr David's point above concerning vigils. It gets confusing because in those parishes and monasteries which follow the Russian tradition if Matins is being served it often follows immediately after the Vespers. This is often called a vigil even if the service itself is not a vigil rank service.

You can tell the rank of these services mainly from the way in which the vespers and matins are served (a daily vespers and matins are very different in structure from great doxology, polyeley or vigil rank services). At a daily service there should also be an end to the vespers with a dismissal before proceeding on to the matins. Often though this clear division between the two services is not fully done and so is not fully apparent.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

Also- I know this is one of those 'Liturgics 101' questions but isn't a Saturday night always considered vigil rank due to its being the eve of a Sunday? I don't have the time to look through all my books right now but this is what I assumed or was taught previously. This is why in the Russian tradition typical psalms would always be sung on Sunday.

Also as to Fr David's point above concerning vigils. It gets confusing because in those parishes and monasteries which follow the Russian tradition if Matins is being served it often follows immediately after the Vespers. This is often called a vigil even if the service itself is not a vigil rank service.

You can tell the rank of these services mainly from the way in which the vespers and matins are served (a daily vespers and matins are very different in structure from great doxology, polyeley or vigil rank services). At a daily service there should also be an end to the vespers with a dismissal before proceeding on to the matins. Often though this clear division between the two services is not fully done and so is not fully apparent.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

I know that this discussion is more than a year old, but I am nevertheless posting my question here in order to avoid having to create a new thread. Besides, everyone who's participated in this thread is still active and I hope that they get to read my question. Here goes:

I glanced at the schedule (http://www.jordanville.org/schedule.html)of the Jordanville Monastery while looking through its spanking new website and I noticed that every weekday outside of Lent has Vespers followed by Matins in the afternoon, while Saturday nights have a Vigil (reputedly "all-night" for real in Jordanville).

However, during Lent, Matins, Hours and Vespers are recited straight through in the morning!

Furthermore, I was expecting to find a Vigil for the night before the Transfiguration as well as the Dormition, but the schedule simply notes that there is the usual Matins and Vespers in the Afternoon, but no mention of a "Vigil".

So, two questions:

1) Why is the Matins-Vespers aggregate chanted in the morning during Lent?

2) Why is there no mention of a "Vigil" (such as that on Saturday nights) prior to Transfiguration and the Dormition?

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Carlos Antonio Palad asked:



1) Why is the Matins-Vespers aggregate chanted in the morning during Lent?

2) Why is there no mention of a "Vigil" (such as that on Saturday nights) prior to Transfiguration and the Dormition?

1) According to the typikon this is the proper way to do these services during Great Lent. Most times especially in monasteries we begin with the Midnight Office (Nocturns); then immediately Matins and 1st Hour. According to the typikon after the 1st Hour a litya for the departed is sung but many do this after the Vespers instead.

At this point there is often a break after which 3rd, 6th, 9th Hours are chanted, then the Typika, and then the Vespers.

When Presanctified Liturgy is served on Wednesdays & Fridays the above pattern is followed except that after the Typika, we go immediately into the Presanctified- which after all is a kind of eucharistic Vespers.

If you are asking why this is all done together in the morning: I do not know the definitive answer to this never having studied it more deeply. However my sense is that these services are done as an aggregate mainly from custom; as the best guide to the daily services that I know of from Russia puts it, "usually these are served together". In many places this aggregate is done only during the 1st Week of Great Lent with Vespers afterwards being done at its common time of late afternoon.

2) If no mention of Vigil was made then this is probably just an oversight in the printed schedule. On the eve of these great Feasts, 'Vigil', ie Great Vespers, Matins and 1st Hour, is always done on the evening of the day of the Feast itself.

Note however that this 'Vigil' is in itself an adaptation of what the typikon presents which is a literal all night vigil beginning with Small Vespers; only afterwards is the Great Vespers done and then on to the festal Matins and then Liturgy. On Mt Athos and various places in Greece one can see this tradition still continuing with the vigil beginning in the evening and ending in the morning. In some monasteries on Mt Athos on Saturday nights there is a break though in the middle of the night in between the completion of Matins and the beginning of the Liturgy.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

2) If no mention of Vigil was made then this is probably just an oversight in the printed schedule. On the eve of these great Feasts, 'Vigil', ie Great Vespers, Matins and 1st Hour, is always done on the evening of the day of the Feast itself.

Note however that this 'Vigil' is in itself an adaptation of what the typikon presents which is a literal all night vigil beginning with Small Vespers; only afterwards is the Great Vespers done and then on to the festal Matins and then Liturgy. On Mt Athos and various places in Greece one can see this tradition still continuing with the vigil beginning in the evening and ending in the morning. In some monasteries on Mt Athos on Saturday nights there is a break though in the middle of the night in between the completion of Matins and the beginning of the Liturgy.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

There is a "real" All-Night Vigil in Athonite monasteries every Saturday night? I didn't hear about that before.

Anyway, I hope you don't mind, but what feasts would normally have an All-Night Vigil according to the Sabbaitic Typikon? In addition to the Russian Orthodox Church, what other Churches have All-Night Vigils on Saturday nights (as opposed to Vespers in the evening and Orthros in the morning of Sunday)? Someone once wrote to me saying that the Romanians, Serbians and Antiochenes follow the Sabbaitic Typikon (and not the Violakis), but from the little that I know, they pretty much seem to follow Greek usage.

[Anthony Stokes]

Anyway, I hope you don't mind, but what feasts would normally have an All-Night Vigil according to the Sabbaitic Typikon?


There are "ranks" of feasts. From the top, you have -
Pascha
12 Great Feasts
Vigil Feasts
Doxology Feasts
Polyeleon Feasts
Six-Stichera Feasts & Double Commemorations
Simple Feasts

The title's refer to the types of service that are done. Each set contains the rubrics from the rank below and then adds to them. So all Vigil class feasts, plus the 12 Great Feasts would have Vigils served. Doxology class and below would be separated, Vespers and Matins, sometimes with the Great Doxology, sometimes with the Polyeleon, etc.

You can find out what type of feast it is in the Menaion, the Typicon, or in some Service Books.

Also, sometimes a feast can be upgraded. For example, my parish's patron, St. Maximus the Confessor, is not considered a Vigil class feast, but since he is our parish patron, he gets a Vigil for his feastday.

Hope that helps a bit.

Subdeacon Anthony

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Carlos Antonio Palad asked:


There is a "real" All-Night Vigil in Athonite monasteries every Saturday night? I didn't hear about that before.

Yes, at least when I was there. It could well be though that the smaller kellis have a shorter vigil that does not last through the night- I don't know. From what I recall on Mt Athos the kellis often do services in a much less formal way than the larger monasteries.

In any case the main thing is that they wouldn't be doing the service in the more modern way as seen for example in Greek parishes here in North America: ie in the evening Great Vespers; then on Sunday morning Matins and right into Liturgy.




Anyway, I hope you don't mind, but what feasts would normally have an All-Night Vigil according to the Sabbaitic Typikon? In addition to the Russian Orthodox Church, what other Churches have All-Night Vigils on Saturday nights (as opposed to Vespers in the evening and Orthros in the morning of Sunday)? Someone once wrote to me saying that the Romanians, Serbians and Antiochenes follow the Sabbaitic Typikon (and not the Violakis), but from the little that I know, they pretty much seem to follow Greek usage.

This can be found if one looks at the back of the Slavonic Great Book of Hours (Великий Часословъ). Here is a complete calendar of saint's celebrations for every day of the year. Beside those feasts/saints which can be served as a vigil there is a red cross within either a complete or half circle. The feasts in the complete circle are usually the 'great' feast such as Transfiguration, while those in the half circle are 'lesser feasts' such as St Vladimir.

Then come services with a red cross only: these services have much the same structure as the Vespers & Matins except that since they are not part of a vigil they do not have the hymnography for a possible Small Vespers nor for Litya. In more modern times these services are often referred to as 'polyeley' services.

The complication & possible confusion here is that in more recent centuries Vespers and Matins with 1st Hour are often done together in the evening. This way of doing the services is called Vigil regardless of the rank of the feast.

The complication comes because of how one should actually end the Vespers; if one is doing a Polyeley or lesser rank celebration then there should be a dismissal at the end of the Vespers to mark it's end before proceeding on to Matins. Then the Matins should have the more full beginning instead of just beginning with the 6 Psalms. In this way the difference between an actual Vigil rank service and a vigil which just consists of doing Vespers, Matins and 1st Hour together could still be maintained and confusion between the two avoided.

However in our times one often sees the practice of going from Vespers into the Matins in the same way as if it was a Vigil; ie without any Vespers dismissal and straightway into the 6 Psalms. By doing this we lose the means of experiencing the important liturgical differences in the ranks of the saint's celebrations. Also gradually we no longer know the difference between Vigil as the celebration of a feast of a certain rank and a vigil as an aggregate of services.

I am not certain of what other national chruches follow the typikon of St Sava in the way the Russians and east Slavs do. I think that at least the Serbs do.

Also here in North America many have begun to follow more faithfully the typikon regardless of what their mother churches do. This I think is part of that general effort to recover the services more fully.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

Carlos Antonio Palad asked:


Also here in North America many have begun to follow more faithfully the typikon regardless of what their mother churches do. This I think is part of that general effort to recover the services more fully.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

I keep finding references to how there is a movement to recover the services more fully, how the Patriarchates (esp. the EP) are promoting liturgical renewal, how there is a movement to observe the Typikon more strictly, etc. etc. but I could never find details.

I hope you can enlighten me more about this. All I've heard is that the Church of Greece has ordered a return to some of the more traditional elements of Orthros and that Patriarch Bartholomew has ordered that the Divine Liturgy be unabbreviated (e.g. say the prayers for the catechumens, etc.)

I comment often on the liturgical situation in the Catholic Church vis-a-vis the restoration of the sacred being promoted by Pope Benedict XVI, and I would like to know what is happening in the Orthodox Churches too.

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

Just as a footnote, I have read that this revised typikon was a little controversial. Mother Gavriilia (1897-1992) comments:

This is another topic on which I would appreciate more information. Which Churches use the modern Greek Typikon, and which ones use the Sabbaitic Typikon?

One one hand, some lump the Greek, Bulgarian, Serbian, Romanian and Antiochian Churches under the "Greek Typikon"; on the other hand I've seen references and claims that put Romania and Antioch under the Sabbaitic Typikon. Who's right and who is not?

I'm not even asking yet about the differences between Muscovite / Golden Circle practices and Southern Rus' (ROCOR and Ukrainian and OCA) usages -- red versus white in Pascha, for example. :-)

Also, regarding the Beatitudes: I've come across scattered references to the Beatitudes and Typical Psalms still being done in some Romanian and Greek churches (with no further details). However, I've been listening regularly to the daily Divine Liturgy broadcast from Pireaus and it always has the 3 antiphons.

I hope that I'm not getting on anybody's nerves; I just would like to flesh out the fragments of knowledge that I have.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Carlos Antonio Palad wrote:


Which Churches use the modern Greek Typikon, and which ones use the Sabbaitic Typikon?

One one hand, some lump the Greek, Bulgarian, Serbian, Romanian and Antiochian Churches under the "Greek Typikon"; on the other hand I've seen references and claims that put Romania and Antioch under the Sabbaitic Typikon. Who's right and who is not?

Let's keep in mind that what we're talking about here is the way in which the Matins is done. If we do then that will simplify our comments I think.

In any case although I am far from an expert on this I wonder if any of the other national churches follow the more recent Greek arrangement of the Matins?

Here many of the smaller jurisdictions have been influenced by Russian usages. Local Romanians for example do services much the same way as those who follow the Russian tradition.

I think the Serbs always followed the Typikon and never changed.

Bulgarians (especially the 'new' parishes brought in under Metropolitan Joseph) follow this same typikon I think.

Any other comments would be appreciated. If someone has the new Antiochian Book of Hours it could be seen what tyikon they now favour.

In christ- Fr Raphael

[Michael Astley]

I toyed with the idea of starting a new thread but there seems to be some relation to this one so I thought I'd post here.

My parish doesn't use the stichera interspersed with the Beatitudes at Sunday Liturgies, and I have only ever encountered them done at our cathedral when I have been there on feasts, and then in Slavonic, so was not able to follow, (plus I have almost always been serving so had other things to occupy my attention). The result is that I'm not entirely sure how they work and I wondered whether anybody may be able to shed some light on this for me.

Are there specific times when these stichera are/are not used? I have The Festal Menaion so I understand where the stichera for the twelve Great Feasts come from but what about those used Sunday by Sunday? Where would they be found? Are they grouped together at certain points or are they sung alternately with the Beatitudes? Properly, who sings them: clergy, the choir, or a reader? If the clergy (or a reader who is serving in the altar), how does this work practically, as I imagine it would be difficult to balance this with the procession of the Little Entrance? Thank you in advance for your time, efforts, and assistance.

Pax,
Michael

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Michael Astley asked:



My parish doesn't use the stichera interspersed with the Beatitudes at Sunday Liturgies, and I have only ever encountered them done at our cathedral when I have been there on feasts, and then in Slavonic, so was not able to follow, (plus I have almost always been serving so had other things to occupy my attention). The result is that I'm not entirely sure how they work and I wondered whether anybody may be able to shed some light on this for me.


Are there specific times when these stichera are/are not used?

Properly speaking these are called tropars rather than stichiri. To turn the question around (I think that's the best way to understand the logic behind what is being done) these tropars are used whenever the Beatitudes are sung. Thus they would not be used for example at great feasts of the Lord or at daily services of 3 or 6 stichira saint(s) because on these days Festal antiphons and daily antiphons would be sung instead of the Beatitudes at least according to Russian practice.



I have The Festal Menaion so I understand where the stichera for the twelve Great Feasts come from but what about those used Sunday by Sunday? Where would they be found? Are they grouped together at certain points or are they sung alternately with the Beatitudes?

It's probably best to understand that strictly speaking there is not a Sunday category of these tropars but rather they are categorized according to the commemoration(s) of the Sunday. Thus on all Sundays except for Great Feasts of the Lord we use Resurrectional tropars. Then if it is a pre Feast or post Feast we have additional tropars (this includes the Sundays during Triodion and Pentecostarion periods); and it is the same for saints of higher rank.

Resurrectional tropars are usually printed at the end of the Vigil service as found in the Resurrectional Octoechos. The Triod & Pentecostarion for Sunday often print these also after the Matins. Tropars for the saints of higher rank are found in the Menaion with instructions printed after the Matins. Thus for example for this Thursday's (OC) feast of the Beheading of St John the Baptist it says: On the Beatitudes, 8 troparia: 4 from Ode 3 of the 1st Canon and 4 from Ode 6 of the 2nd canon.

These tropars are interspersed with the Beatitudes one by one very much like how we insert the stichiri at Lord I Have Cried. We start so that we end up with the last tropar right after Both now and ever. The number of tropars that we use is determined either by the rank of the commemoration or if we have multiple commemorations (eg Sunday & saint) by how many tropars this adds up to. The number used varies between 6 and 12 always varying by even numbers. To know this combination you most always need to have reference to a liturgical calendar and then look for the day you are interested in.


Properly, who sings them: clergy, the choir, or a reader? If the clergy (or a reader who is serving in the altar), how does this work practically, as I imagine it would be difficult to balance this with the procession of the Little Entrance?

I have always heard only the reader chant these. Perhaps though there are other practices?

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Here is an example of what would be done tomorrow. (this referes only to the OC however).

In Thy kingdom remember us, O Lord, * when Thou comest in Thy kingdom.
Blessed are the poor in spirit, * for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
[In 12 verses]
Blessed are they that mourn, * for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, * for they shall inherit the earth.
[In 10 verses]
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness, * for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, * for they shall obtain mercy.
[In 8 verses]
1. From paradise didst Thou drive our forefather Adam, who had broken Thy
commandment, O Christ; but, O Compassionate One, Thou didst cause to dwell therein
the thief who confessed Thee on the cross, crying out: “Remember me, O Savior, in Thy
kingdom!”

Blessed are the pure in heart, * for they shall see God.

2. With the curse of death didst Thou condemn us who had sinned, O Lord, Bestower of
life; yet having suffered in Thy flesh, O sinless Master, Thou hast granted life unto
mortals who cry out: “Remember us also in Thy kingdom!”

Blessed are the peacemakers, * for they shall be called the sons of God.

3. In rising from the dead, Thou hast raised us up from the passions with Thyself through
Thy resurrection, O Lord; and all the power of death hast Thou destroyed, O Savior.
Wherefore, with faith we cry out to Thee: “Remember us also in Thy kingdom!”
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake, * for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4. O Thou who as God grantest life, by Thy three days in the tomb Thou didst raise up
with Thyself the dead in hell, and as One Who is good Thou hast poured forth
incorruption upon all of us who with faith ever cry out: “Remember us also in Thy
kingdom!”

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, * and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

5. Risen from the dead, O Savior, Thou didst first appear to the myrrh-bearing women,
crying out: “Rejoice!” and through them Thou didst announce Thy resurrection to Thy
friends, O Christ. Wherefore, with faith we cry out to Thee, “Remember us also in Thy
kingdom!”

Rejoice, and be exceeding glad, * for great is your reward in the heavens.

6. Moses, stretching out his arms on the mountain, prefigured the Cross and thus
conquered Amelek. And, receiving it with faith as a mighty weapon against the demons,
we all cry out: “Remember us also in Thy kingdom!”

Glory to the Father, * and to the Son, * and to the Holy Spirit.

7. O ye faithful, let us hymn the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the one God, the one Lord,
as from a single Sun; for the Trinity is thrice-luminous and enlighteneth all who cry out:
“Remember us also in Thy kingdom!”

Both now and ever, * and unto the ages of ages. Amen.

8. Rejoice, O portal of God, through which the incarnate Creator passed without breaking
thy seal! Rejoice, thou light cloud which bore Christ, the divine Rain! Rejoice, ladder
and throne of heaven! Rejoice, honored mountain of God, fruitful and unquarried!

You can refer to this page of Fr John Whitefored's site (http://www.saintjonah.org/lit/) for instructions for the Sundays and main Feast Days.

[Michael Astley]

Dear Father Raphael,

Thank you for taking the time to explain and give examples. That really does clarify.

A few more questions, though:

Do the "In 12 verses" &c. indicate where these tropars would begin if there were more of them, indicated by the number?

Also, I notice that those from the Festal Menaion are assigned particular tones. Is this the same for those from the Octoechos or are they sung according to the tropar tone of the week?

I'm sorry for all of these questions. It's just beginning to make sense to me.

Thank you.

Michael

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Do the "In 12 verses" &c. indicate where these tropars would begin if there were more of them, indicated by the number?

Yes, this is so.


Also, I notice that those from the Festal Menaion are assigned particular tones. Is this the same for those from the Octoechos or are they sung according to the tropar tone of the week?


I see that in the books it is printed 'in Tone ---' according to whatever the resurrectional tone of the week is.

I would think then that this means that these tropar for the Beaititudes could also be sung. However I have only been in places where they are chanted/read so I do not know what the exact practice would be for singing them.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Anthony Stokes]

[quote=Michael Astley asked:

I see that in the books it is printed 'in Tone ---' according to whatever the resurrectional tone of the week is.

I would think then that this means that these tropar for the Beaititudes could also be sung. However I have only been in places where they are chanted/read so I do not know what the exact practice would be for singing them.

In Christ- Fr Raphael


At my parish we sing the Beatitude verses. I believe this is the proper way, but it is seldomly done in the U.S. The troparia come from the Matins canon for the feast, or they are there own hymns if from the Octoechos. If the feast is not a high enough rank, then you would normally sing 8 from the Octoechos. Then you would go up from there to 10 (6 octoechos, 4 feast), or sometimes 12 during an afterfeast or similar situation, and even once or twice a year there are 14, where you actually start the troparia before the beatitudes.

The tones depend on what they are for. The Octoechos hymns are in the Tone of the Week, but any troparia from the Menaion or Triodion, etc, are in the tone of the canon that they come from. You usually have to look at the first ode to find this, because typically Beatitude verses come from Odes 3 and 6.

The main reason that verses are done at the Beatitudes is so that you get some of the hymnology for the feast at Liturgy. If most people only come to Liturgy, then they don't hear the rich texts from the canons, etc. for the feast. Just doing the Troparion and Kontakion is sometimes just not enough to get the full effect of the commemoration.

Subdeacon Anthony

[Michael Astley]

At my parish we sing the Beatitude verses. I believe this is the proper way, but it is seldomly done in the U.S. The troparia come from the Matins canon for the feast, or they are there own hymns if from the Octoechos. If the feast is not a high enough rank, then you would normally sing 8 from the Octoechos. Then you would go up from there to 10 (6 octoechos, 4 feast), or sometimes 12 during an afterfeast or similar situation, and even once or twice a year there are 14, where you actually start the troparia before the beatitudes.

The tones depend on what they are for. The Octoechos hymns are in the Tone of the Week, but any troparia from the Menaion or Triodion, etc, are in the tone of the canon that they come from. You usually have to look at the first ode to find this, because typically Beatitude verses come from Odes 3 and 6.

Fr Raphael and Subdeacon Anthony, thank you for all of your help. It is really very much appreciated. The rubrics make a number of assumptions about prior knowledge and, without the necessary experience to fill in the gaps, it can be quite difficult to work out what is actually supposed to happen.

Now I understand about where to start, what determines what combinations are used, and how and by whom they are sung. The one thing I now don't understand is that, in the Festal Menaion, (and, presumably there are instances of this in the Tridion and Penteostarion as well), there are occasions where the rubrics direct that four tropars be sung from a particular canticle of the first/second canon but, when the canon is consulted, only three are to be found. Even if the irmos is included, it can sometimes fall short by one. How is this remedied?


The main reason that verses are done at the Beatitudes is so that you get some of the hymnology for the feast at Liturgy. If most people only come to Liturgy, then they don't hear the rich texts from the canons, etc. for the feast. Just doing the Troparion and Kontakion is sometimes just not enough to get the full effect of the commemoration.

I agree. Some of these tropars are so beautiful that it is a great loss not to have them included. I enjoy the festal antiphons but I understand that these are properly only used for Feasts of the Lord and it sits uneasily to do the same for other feasts. These tropars are an ideal way to heighten the festivity while properly observing the rank of the feast.

Thank you, again, for all of the help provided here.

Pax,
Michael

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

I agree. Some of these tropars are so beautiful that it is a great loss not to have them included. I enjoy the festal antiphons but I understand that these are properly only used for Feasts of the Lord and it sits uneasily to do the same for other feasts. These tropars are an ideal way to heighten the festivity while properly observing the rank of the feast.

Thank you, again, for all of the help provided here.

Pax,
Michael


Why did these tropars drop out, and in what countries are they still done? Do the Russians still do these consistently?

Hopefully, these tropars and the Beatitudes will be used again in the Orthodox and Greek Catholic worlds.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Michael Astley asked:



The one thing I now don't understand is that, in the Festal Menaion, (and, presumably there are instances of this in the Tridion and Penteostarion as well), there are occasions where the rubrics direct that four tropars be sung from a particular canticle of the first/second canon but, when the canon is consulted, only three are to be found. Even if the irmos is included, it can sometimes fall short by one. How is this remedied?

My senior reader and I have been searching for years without success for instructions about this.

From what I saw previously however in other places and feels more correct is that the Irmos is left out. Then one of the tropars would be doubled if need be to make up the required number. This is what we do in our parish.

The reason I say that it feels more correct is that there are many times when the Irmos does not relate in content to the commemoration at hand but rather to the Biblical Ode of which it was in any case originally a short-hand commentary or summation.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear all,

I've very much enjoyed reading this thread. Just one note from the most recent comments:

The one thing I now don't understand is that, in the Festal Menaion, (and, presumably there are instances of this in the Tridion and Penteostarion as well), there are occasions where the rubrics direct that four tropars be sung from a particular canticle of the first/second canon but, when the canon is consulted, only three are to be found. Even if the irmos is included, it can sometimes fall short by one. How is this remedied?




My senior reader and I have been searching for years without success for instructions about this.

From what I saw previously however in other places and feels more correct is that the Irmos is left out. Then one of the tropars would be doubled if need be to make up the required number. This is what we do in our parish.


I would just confirm that this is the practice as I know it; namely, that the irmos is not used as a tropar (so far as I know, it never is; though occasionally they are doubled in their own right as irmoi), and that normally one or more of the troparia of the ode is/are repeated, to make up the given number. Often this is true of the ode itself, even as the canon is used during matins (a classic example, which takes reduplication to full lengths, is the canon of Palm Sunday, where for each ode twelve troparia are appointed, whereas only two or three are ever provided - thus the troparia are each sung either four or six times, so as to bring them to the full number ).

Regularly, the menaia / triodion / etc. will indicate duplications (look for 'twice' or 'thrice' after a tropar in the ode); but when not, as often as otherwise it is meant to be the first tropar that is repeated. Thus, for example, if there are three troparia provided, and instructions to sing four, you'll often see them listed like this:
Tropar 1...
Tropar 2...
Tropar 3...
If four troparia are appointed with such provision, normally this would indicate they be sung like this:

Tropar 1... [I](twice)
Tropar 2...
Tropar 3...If five are appointed, with the same provision, this:
Tropar 1... (twice)
Tropar 2... (twice)
Tropar 3...If six, as so:
Tropar 1... (twice)
Tropar 2... (twice)
Tropar 3... (twice)
If seven:
Tropar 1... (three times)
Tropar 2... (twice)
Tropar 3... (twice)
And so on. Again, this would be superceded by any specific instructions in the text itself (which might point to exactly which are to be repeated).

Again, I don't know the above to be hard-and-fast regula; it just represents the practice I see regularly.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Michael Astley]

Thank you, both.

That does help, actually. I had thought that perhaps there may be some repetition but had imagined that this would be done as a cycle, so that, if five tropars were required but only three were provided, they would be sung in the sequence of 1, 2, 3, 1, 2. It seems from common practice that this may not actually be the case.

I'm really grateful to you all for painting a clearer picture of this.

Pax,
Michael

[Herman Blaydoe]

Much has 'dropped out' simply because it hasn't be translated, or what translation there has been has been very difficult to obtain. Training of cantors or choir directors in the diaspora is somewhat lacking, a mixed bag at best. Hard to include something that you have no idea how to find, so you do what the choir director or cantor before you did and it becomes the Tradition. As it is, it totally depends on the resources and/or talents of the particular choir director or cantor and of course the wishes of the priest, not to mention the parish. Sad to say, some parishes just don't want the extra length of the Liturgy that these would add.

I think this may start to turn around as more material becomes available on the Internet, and more people come to appreciate the vast treasury of hymnody that the Church has. It would certainly be a good thing if our many jurisdictions could get together and come up with something vaguely resembling some sort of basic curriculum available to parishes for cantor or choir director training on these matters.

Herman

[Michael Astley]

Much has 'dropped out' simply because it hasn't be translated, or what translation there has been has been very difficult to obtain. Training of cantors or choir directors in the diaspora is somewhat lacking, a mixed bag at best. Hard to include something that you have no idea how to find, so you do what the choir director or cantor before you did and it becomes the Tradition. As it is, it totally depends on the resources and/or talents of the particular choir director or cantor and of course the wishes of the priest, not to mention the parish. Sad to say, some parishes just don't want the extra length of the Liturgy that these would add.

I think this may start to turn around as more material becomes available on the Internet, and more people come to appreciate the vast treasury of hymnody that the Church has.

That makes a lot of sense. Only recently on another thread we were discussing petitions in one of the litanies, and how there are more available in the Slavonic liturgical books that have simply not been included in the English translations, with the result that many English-speaking clergy have perhaps never even encountered them. I imagine that the same is true of many elements of our church services.


It would certainly be a good thing if our many jurisdictions could get together and come up with something vaguely resembling some sort of basic curriculum available to parishes for cantor or choir director training on these matters.

I agree entirely with your sentiment, Herman. However, I must confess that my first thought upon reading this would be that it would be much like an attempt at herding cats.

I wish we did much more together, truth be told. Perhaps in time.

Pax,
Michael

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Thank you, both.

That does help, actually. I had thought that perhaps there may be some repetition but had imagined that this would be done as a cycle, so that, if five tropars were required but only three were provided, they would be sung in the sequence of 1, 2, 3, 1, 2. It seems from common practice that this may not actually be the case.

I'm really grateful to you all for painting a clearer picture of this.

Pax,
Michael

About whether we read the Irmos or not at the Beatitudes, I just realized that one authoritative source has been staring me in the face for many years without my noticing it.

The Octocechos clearly never includes the Irmos to be sing/read at the Beatitudes when it prints these at the end of the Vigil.

In christ- Fr Raphael

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Michael Astley wrote:



I agree entirely with your sentiment, Herman. However, I must confess that my first thought upon reading this would be that it would be much like an attempt at herding cats.

I wish we did much more together, truth be told. Perhaps in time.


A thorough book of templates of the different types of daily services would be a great start.

The Festal Menaion I think has a very basic description but the best overall compilation to my knowledge is Fr Gregory William's The Order of the Divine Services.

If one does services regurlarly however one finds many instructions left out like the question we are discussing here. For example I have still not found any comprehensive instructions as to when Psalm 103 is sung or read at Vespers. The general and I think correct practice is to sing this at Great Vespers that is part of a Vigil (eg Saturday evenings & eves of Feasts) and to read this at Daily Vespers.

However if Great Vespers is done separately from Matins is the normal practice of singing this really called for? What does one do at a Vespers for a Polyeley rank service for example?

Also- does Litya belong with Great Vespers when it is done alone as is often done in modern times on the Eves of Feasts? Here I think a careful balance has to kept between the original intent of the structure of the services (eg litya as an integral part of a vigil) and the way in which these same things could with care serve as markers of Great Feasts.

I will say that over the years in more recent times Vespers has been glided off into two basic types: daily & 'vigil' even though it is served without Matins. The effect of this has been to lose the sense of the full spectrum of services as found in the more detailed instructions of how to do the services.

Perhaps the reality of our times is that Vespers alone really does have its proper place (I was recently surprised that the Typikon states that in small parishes & monasteries it is permissable that Vigil not be done; ie Vespers alone may be served). Several things however need to be carefully thought out though in the case of how this is done on Saturdays and the eves of feasts.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Anthony Stokes]

Michael Astley wrote:
A thorough book of templates of the different types of daily services would be a great start.

The Festal Menaion I think has a very basic description but the best overall compilation to my knowledge is Fr Gregory William's The Order of the Divine Services.

If this is the Fekula/Williams book, yes it is a very good source. I haven't seen the newest edition yet, but I use the 1995 edition every time I put together a service.


If one does services regurlarly however one finds many instructions left out like the question we are discussing here. For example I have still not found any comprehensive instructions as to when Psalm 103 is sung or read at Vespers. The general and I think correct practice is to sing this at Great Vespers that is part of a Vigil (eg Saturday evenings & eves of Feasts) and to read this at Daily Vespers.

However if Great Vespers is done separately from Matins is the normal practice of singing this really called for? What does one do at a Vespers for a Polyeley rank service for example?

This is a very good question. I have always understood that it is only sung at Vigil, but the two books I happen to have with me (the Abridged Typikon pub. by St. Tikhon's & Gardner's Russian Church Singing Vol. 1) both seem to say that you sing at any Great Vespers. We begin Great Vespers when separated from a Vigil just like Daily Vespers, so we read Psalm 103 unless it is a Vigil.


Also- does Litya belong with Great Vespers when it is done alone as is often done in modern times on the Eves of Feasts? Here I think a careful balance has to kept between the original intent of the structure of the services (eg litya as an integral part of a vigil) and the way in which these same things could with care serve as markers of Great Feasts.

I would think that the Litya hymns would be part of Great Vespers, whether there is a Vigil served or not, but I always look at it from a hymnology point of view. But I agree, that usually when Litya hymns are assigned, it is understood that the Vigil is to be served.


I will say that over the years in more recent times Vespers has been glided off into two basic types: daily & 'vigil' even though it is served without Matins. The effect of this has been to lose the sense of the full spectrum of services as found in the more detailed instructions of how to do the services.

Perhaps the reality of our times is that Vespers alone really does have its proper place (I was recently surprised that the Typikon states that in small parishes & monasteries it is permissable that Vigil not be done; ie Vespers alone may be served). Several things however need to be carefully thought out though in the case of how this is done on Saturdays and the eves of feasts.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

This is a good topic, because this week in the Church Services class that I am teaching at my parish, we are going to be talking about Vespers.

Subdeacon Anthony

[Anthony Stokes]

Thank you, both.

That does help, actually. I had thought that perhaps there may be some repetition but had imagined that this would be done as a cycle, so that, if five tropars were required but only three were provided, they would be sung in the sequence of 1, 2, 3, 1, 2. It seems from common practice that this may not actually be the case.

I'm really grateful to you all for painting a clearer picture of this.

Pax,
Michael

It seems to me that I remember, that when the 3rd or 6th ode does not have enough troparia for the Beatitudes, that you then go the 4th Ode, since, with the 7th, it is typically the longest ode. This only applies to the Beatitudes though, not when reading the canon at matins.

I'm not sure where this came from. It may have just been a solution that we came up with once.

Subdeacon Anthony

[Michael Astley]

I'm not sure where this came from. It may have just been a solution that we came up with once.

I rather suspect that this is how many of our now well-established liturgical traditions came about, so you are likely in very good company.

Pax,
Michael

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Rdr Anthony Stokes wrote:




This is a very good question. I have always understood that it is only sung at Vigil, but the two books I happen to have with me (the Abridged Typikon pub. by St. Tikhon's & Gardner's Russian Church Singing Vol. 1) both seem to say that you sing at any Great Vespers. We begin Great Vespers when separated from a Vigil just like Daily Vespers, so we read Psalm 103 unless it is a Vigil.

An important but complex point relates to the fact that the term itself of Great Vespers originally meant that this service was part of a Vigil or was followed immediately by what is in essence a festal Matins (eg a polyeley rank Matins). This is what made it a 'great' Vespers. However in many modern conditions where only Vespers is done, 'great' has come to signify that this evening service marks the entry way into a specially significant day such as Sunday or a Feast day.

Now these two understandings are not contradictory. Indeed the logic of being part of a Vigil/Polyley service always assumes a greater significance for the upcoming day in any case.

However if Vespers served alone becomes what amounts to a set way of doing the services, then an examination needs to be carefully done as to what elements of this service really only fit properly when done as part of a larger vigil.

Here I am thinking of the inclusion of Litya which has become very common practice on the eves of Feasts. Many of its elements seem to speak as part of a Vigil. For example the anointing with the blessed oil & distribution of the loaves soaked in wine are normally done as the people come up to venerate the festal icon at Matins. This flows seamlessly and with meaning at this point of the service. However if Vespers is done alone the only choice one has is to anoint and distribute the blessed loaves after the Vesperal dismissal. In this case even though Litya adds to the festal significance of the Vespers are elements out of place within a Vespers not part of a greater vigil?


What also of Psalm 33 part which is called for to be sung at the end of the Great Vespers? This forms a natural bridge to the priest's short blessing of the people ('the blessing of the Lord be upon you...') after which would follow the six Psalms of Matins.

I raise these points not to criticize but rather to discuss. After all, the typikon is far from cast in concrete and continually has to be interpreted. The way in which this is done however is through an understanding of the parts of each service and of how they go to make up a greater whole.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

I think that the Beatitudes and the tropar or hymn verses intercalated between these have a good chance at being restored in parish practice in English-speaking parishes that use Byzantine chant.

I was looking through the well-known chant pages of the website of St. Anthony's Monastery in Arizona when I stumbled on the Beatitudes (in the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom). In one of the downloads, the following instruction can be found:



The third stasis of the Typica is chanted immediately preceding the Small Entrance. These verses from the Beatitudes are interspersed with the appropriate hymns of the day. On regular weekdays, the first six verses are chanted in succession, and then each of the final six verses is followed by a troparion from the Parakletike in the appropriate mode of the week. On weekdays that the saint of the day has a great doxology in Orthros, the first four verses of the Beatitudes are chanted without hymns in between, then the following four verses are chanted with troparia from the third ode of the saint's canon, and the final four verses are chanted with troparia from the sixth ode of the saint's canon. On Sundays, the first four verses of the Beatitudes are chanted in succession, and then the final eight verses are followed by a troparion from the Parakletike in the appropriate mode of the week. On the Holy Mountain, if on a Sunday the saint of the day has a great doxology or if there is another feast day celebrated on a Sunday, the first four (or sometimes eight) verses of the Beatitudes are followed by the appropriate troparia from the Parakletike, and the remaining eight verses are chanted with the appropriate troparia of the day. However, according to the typicon of the GreatChurch of Christ (as modified by Violakis in 1888), the first four verses of the Beatitudes are never interspersed with troparia

[Michael Astley]

Please forgive yet another question.

I thought that I had finally understood this but now I realise that I was quite wrong.

Since having learnt so much from everybody here, I have encountered what appears to be a discrepancy. In the example of the tropars of the Beatitudes given by Fr Raphael on page one of this thread, the Theotokion, (the final tropar), comes after "Both now and ever...". This is the same structure that is followed in the settings of the Beatitudes that I have found on the OCA website. However, in the Christ of the Hills Hierarchical Liturgy book, the tropars all come one step earlier, with the Theotokion preceding "Both now and ever...". The same is true in the setting of the Beatitudes that is found here (http://music.russianorthodox-stl.org/music/liturgy/beatitudes/Liturgy_Beatit_Onthethird_082905.pdf).

Any thoughts? Thank you.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Please forgive yet another question.

I thought that I had finally understood this but now I realise that I was quite wrong.

Since having learnt so much from everybody here, I have encountered what appears to be a discrepancy. In the example of the tropars of the Beatitudes given by Fr Raphael on page one of this thread, the Theotokion, (the final tropar), comes after "Both now and ever...". This is the same structure that is followed in the settings of the Beatitudes that I have found on the OCA website. However, in the Christ of the Hills Hierarchical Liturgy book, the tropars all come one step earlier, with the Theotokion preceding "Both now and ever...". The same is true in the setting of the Beatitudes that is found here (http://music.russianorthodox-stl.org/music/liturgy/beatitudes/Liturgy_Beatit_Onthethird_082905.pdf).

Any thoughts? Thank you.

In our parish at least we chant the last tropar after the Now & Ever. I am unable right now to confirm absolutely whether this is correct. But it does follow the same principle as when Lord I Have Cried is sung, also the Praises at Matins as well as the canon.

In a way then I think it more likely that this way of doing it is correct since after the Both Now & Ever would often follow a theotokion of some sort. It is this last theotokion which in effect 'completes' that particular part of the service.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Michael,

I've never known the practice of singing the Theotokion before Now and ever...

The Theotokion follows the doxasticon, which is 'the verse on Glory...'; i.e. the verse/tropar that follows the doxa soi... ('Glory to the Father...'); a title which specifically sets the practice as being hymn-following-proclamation. The Theotokion (or Stavrotheotokion) follows precisely the same pattern.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Michael Astley]

Thank you, both.

In Christ,
Michael (who will now go and look up the prefixstavro).

[Father David Moser]

The "stavro" theotokion is the theotokion that is sung on Wed's and Fri's and on other days when the cross (stavros) is commemorated.

A bit of a comment on the Hierarchal Liturgy book from Christ of the Hills. The rubrics are based on the Jordanville practice and are the compiled notes of one of the monks from Blanco when he visited Holy Trinity. His notes (and hence the text) are remarkably good and fairly complete. BUT, they are the notes of one person who was exposed to a limited number of hierarchal liturgies and there are a few inaccuracies and omissions. The book is a decent text, but very hard to follow in practice and as you have noted there are some things in there that are just flat wrong. If something in the book does not conform to your own experience or observation of hierarchal liturgies, then it would be best to confirm from an outside source (as has been done here). Another note - the rubrics are for a hierarchal liturgy, not a normal liturgy and they are Russian/Slavic practice and so will vary from Byzantine practice.

Fr David Moser

[Anthony Stokes]

Both Now & Ever[/I] would often follow a theotokion of some sort. It is this last theotokion which in effect 'completes' that particular part of the service.

In Christ- Fr Raphael


I also believe that at the Beatitudes, if no troparia are read or sung, as is the prevailing practice in many churches in the US, then the doxology is left off completely, and the Beatitudes end with "rejoice, and be glad..."

Sbdn. Anthony

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

I also believe that at the Beatitudes, if no troparia are read or sung, as is the prevailing practice in many churches in the US, then the doxology is left off completely, and the Beatitudes end with "rejoice, and be glad..."

Sbdn. Anthony

Yes, I think this is correct.

[M.C. Steenberg]

It may help to think of a 'standard model' for how a block group of troparia are normally read or sung.

As a general rule, the ancient practice for a block of troparia is that they be intersperced with psalm verses or other verses, with Glory... before the penultimate, and Both now... before the final tropar. In many practices, the psalm verses or other verses are no longer consistently sung; but the practice of Glory... penultimate, Both now... final remains (in the matins odes we still see the traditional practice used more widely, with refrain verses between each pair of troparia; and the same is true at vespers with Lord, I have cried...).

We see this same pattern also with liturgical units made up of the same tropar/hymn repeated many times. This is the case, for example, with many of the festal antiphons at the Divine Liturgy (which are often simply a tropar to Christ, the Mother of God, or of the feast, repeated many times with psalm verses interspersed); as also at a Vigil with a magnification, where the velichaniya is repeated many times with psalm verses interspersed -- and in such cases we see the practice of Glory... Both now... before the final two repetitions of the tropar.

What happens with the Beatitudes at the Liturgy is a combination of two distinct units: the block of text from the Gospel, which consists of a series of hymnic verses each beginning 'Blessed are...' and in shape almost like miniature troparia themselves; and a collection of verses/troparia. In this case, what seems to happen is that the Beatitudes themselves are treated like a collection of troparia, and the verses/troparia assigned to them become what in other cases would be the interspersed psalm verses, and are used in an identical way.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

If I could just add that this way of interspersing verses seems to be one of those unique features of the Byzantine Typikon as it was developed over the centuries.

Antiphonal singing is attested to in the Church from quite early times.

However the Byzantines developed this it seems in a unique way. The earlier layer of the services seems to have been the psalms & biblical odes (at the matins) or passages from the Gospel as are the Beatitudes. Then as the great hymnography develops from the 7th century on, this is interspersed with the psalms & biblical odes in an antiphonal fashion.

Going one step further in the modern way of doing the canon, the underlying and original biblical ode is dropped and replaced with verses to the respective feast or saint- Glory to Thee our God glory to Thee; O Most holy Theotokos save us; Holy Father ---pray to God for us; etc. Only the Irmos is left to remind us of the actual theme of the biblical ode.

However I notice that the new Guidebook of the Services from Russia now refers to the full biblical odes at Matins. So maybe the older tradition will have a return at some point.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Anthony Stokes]

However I notice that the new Guidebook of the Services from Russia now refers to the full biblical odes at Matins. So maybe the older tradition will have a return at some point.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

Until that time comes, perhaps this is a good call for more people to serve Matins during Great Lent, where the three ode biblical canon is still preserved.

Sbdn. Anthony