Closed communion

[John E.]

Hello everyone. I was wondering if someone might be able to help me gain a deeper understanding as to why Orthodox have closed communion. I was having a conversation recently with a woman who is Baptist. When she asked me what church I attended, I told her I was Eastern Orthodox and gave her the name of my parish. She then asked me if our communion was open or closed and I told her. She was quick to tell me how at her church anyone is allowed to take communion, they don't exclude anyone, so on and so on. I tried as best I could to explain to her why we do this, but she was not buying it. As I look back, I don't think I did a very good job explaining it because I don't know if I fully understand why. I am interested in hearing from others who may be more informed on this topic. If I am ever again faced with this question, I would like to have a better response or explanation. Thank you.


B.T.E.

[Mary]

She then asked me if our communion was open or closed and I told her. She was quick to tell me how at her church anyone is allowed to take communion, they don't exclude anyone, so on and so on. I tried as best I could to explain to her why we do this, but she was not buying it. As I look back, I don't think I did a very good job explaining it because I don't know if I fully understand why. I am interested in hearing from others who may be more informed on this topic. If I am ever again faced with this question, I would like to have a better response or explanation. Thank you.


B.T.E.

Hi Brian,

I know why we have closed communion, but I'm clueless as to how to explain that to someone who is not orthodox... I remember the first time I was told I couldn't take communion in an orthodox church. It was just a simple fact, and yet, it felt like I was being judged. In this case, I was being judged as 'not a Christian'. So, it immediately put me on the defensive, and I couldn't listen or understand why I would be excluded... especially since, an orthodox person would be allowed to commune at the churches I attended.

A few of the reasons I couldn't understand this 'judgementalism' is because I didn't believe that the Eucharist was truly the Body and Blood of Christ, and I didn't believe that there could be any such thing as a True Church with Physical boundaries. There may have been more, but these were the big ones - especially the True Church thing - I couldnt' understand how anyone could be so full of themselves that they could say they were the true church. Although they never said I wasn't a part of the true church, I assumed that it was implied. And there's nothing they could've said to make be believe they weren't judging my faith.

Sorry I haven't answered your question.

Mary.

[Herman Blaydoe]

There are times even when Orthodox Christians should not approach the Chalice. The Eucharist is the center of the Church, it is a profound mystery, it is encounter with the Living God that should not be approached in a cavalier manner.

We do not go to Communion unprepared. We fast, we pray, we go to confession. We go to the Cup believing it is the very Body and Blood of Christ Himself. Can your Baptist friend say the same? Certainly if you believe that communion is simply a "memorial", that it is only grape juice and wafers, why not let anybody and everybody partake? But do you think the Holy Apostle Paul would agree with this attitude? Somehow I think not, particularly when he warns: "For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep." (1 Corinthians 11:29-30). If you were responsible for the Chalice, what would you do, knowing this? Would you allow anybody and everybody to partake?

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Communion in the Orthodox Church is neither open nor closed. Rather for the Church the focus is on a true participation in Christ in all that we do. For there to be a true participation in Christ we must share in the Faith of the Church. And only by sharing in this Faith are we truly able we share in the Body and Blood of Christ. So sharing in the Faith of the Church and sharing in the sacraments of the Church always have to kept tied together.

Look at it the other way around. To partake in the Body and Blood of Christ without sharing in the Faith of the Church is to seek communion with Christ while denying Who He is. This denial of the Church while seeking Christ is like looking for sunshine while denying the sun. The result of communing in this state would be cutting ourselves off from the Church & depriving ourselves of Christ's grace.

This is also why we do not allow ourselves to commune from other confessions. This is not at all statement that 'we're better' or something like that. It's that for us it would be a betrayal of Christ to seek communion with His Body while not caring about how Faith in Him was expressed. We cannot separate Christ from His Body the Church or from His Body the sacrament.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Owen Jones]

This is another example of the tendency of Protestants to do a selective reading of Scripture. Of course we know the importance of "closed" communion from Biblical references. But it also stands to reason. If I am not spiritually fit when I receive communion, then it's going to backfire. But the real problem and the real difference is that for a Baptist, communion is not communion. It is a memorial service. Even then there is a huge difference between what the Fathers mean by memory and recollection, and what is conventionally meant by the terms today.

You could always try this: if a Baptist receives communion in the Orthodox Church he will surely go to hell!!!!

[Nicolaj]

With the Love of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Haven't been here for some time now, but many things haven't changed! And so there is an Baptist condemned to Hell! Well, who are you that you can judge your brother better then our Lord in Heaven would do it? Or are you the reincarnation of the Lord and able to judge your Brethern? Is it clear to you what you thought, said, wrote and made here!! It is a Sinn!
When you go to recieve to Holy meal and there is someone who could be angry with you, then first go and make your peace with this person!
Who are you to send people to hell!! Maybe it is a sinn for us when but the judgement belongs our Lord! Or has your Father in the Church ever send you to hell? This isn`t an argument to use! Please don`t oppose any human with arguments like this! This isn't christian, nor orthodox. REPENT!

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

[John Charmley]

Dear Nicolaj,

How good to have your presence here again; welcome back.

Of course, what you write is correct. But I wonder whether Owen's tongue might not have been in his cheek a little? He does like to startle us!

In Christ,

John

[Matthew Panchisin]

Dear John,

I don't agree with the supporting notion that you have expressed regarding the comments that had been expressed through Nicolaj at Owen.
Of course, what you write is correct.

It is sad for me to hear such things for I know Owen is not guilty of the things that he has been accused of, suffice it to say you and Nicolaj have misunderstood him greatly. Others here do not see him in such ways.

Should you listen to what he is really saying you will see that he is an Orthodox Christian. How much repenting he has in his heart I can not say. He has sent nobody to hell, he is not capable of that.

Dear Nicolaj,


Haven't been here for some time now, but many things haven't changed!

Where have you been? Actually many things have changed here how about with you?





In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

[Nina]

Dear John,

I don't agree with the supporting notion that you have expressed regarding the comments that had been expressed through Nicolaj at Owen.

It is sad for me to hear such things for I know Owen is not quity of the things that he has been accused of, suffice it to say you and Nicolaj have misunderstood him greatly. Others here do not see him in such ways.

Should you listen to what he is really saying you will see that he is an Orthodox Christian. How much repenting he has in his heart I can not say. Has sent nobody to hell, he is not capable of that.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

Dear Matthew,

I agree with you. From what things I have read Owen has his own style and writes in a non-conventional way which is very refreshing and spiritually didactic to me. And even if his style is unconventional, I have never misunderstood it (although John kept telling me yesterday that I misunderstand his posts' tone). I know that I do not know English, but maybe Owen, you and others here speak the English I know and understand.

Dear Nicolaj,
If you notice Owen's style carefully is not to say that he condemns people to hell. He is trying to teach something to us.

[John Charmley]

Dear Matthew,

What I was agreeing with was the statement that had Owen meant what Nicolaj thought he meant then it would have been wrong, because no man, as Nicolaj wrote, can say whom God will condemn. What I was suggesting to Nicolaj was that Owen's post should not have been meant literally. Or do you think he was saying that Baptists will go to hell?

Still, who knows? Which was, of course, Nicolaj's point - and what I was agreeing with.

In Him,

John

[Matthew Panchisin]

Dear John,

Suffice it to say the overall general tone of the comments that came from Nicolaj I don't agree with.

I will say no more.



In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

[John Charmley]

Dear Matthew,

A point you make well, and which I take; I suppose I was just anxious to assure Nicolaj that Owen was unlikely to have been saying what he was taken to have said.

Many thanks.

In Christ,


John

[Effie Ganatsios]

Communion in the Orthodox Church is neither open nor closed. Rather for the Church the focus is on a true participation in Christ in all that we do. For there to be a true participation in Christ we must share in the Faith of the Church. And only by sharing in this Faith are we truly able we share in the Body and Blood of Christ. So sharing in the Faith of the Church and sharing in the sacraments of the Church always have to kept tied together.

Look at it the other way around. To partake in the Body and Blood of Christ without sharing in the Faith of the Church is to seek communion with Christ while denying Who He is. This denial of the Church while seeking Christ is like looking for sunshine while denying the sun. The result of communing in this state would be cutting ourselves off from the Church & depriving ourselves of Christ's grace.

This is also why we do not allow ourselves to commune from other confessions. This is not at all statement that 'we're better' or something like that. It's that for us it would be a betrayal of Christ to seek communion with His Body while not caring about how Faith in Him was expressed. We cannot separate Christ from His Body the Church or from His Body the sacrament.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

Exactly! Concise and accurate.

Effie

[Nicolaj]

Dear brethren!

Yes I am back and the cause for not being here solong was that my pc broke down during the great Lent, sure the Lord wanted me to spend more time reflecting this time of the year. Now for the goodness of the Lord is mighty upon those whom he loves, I am back again.

And I am not condemning anybody, for I am the first among sinners!

I just wanted to make clear that we should not say such things that easy and that we are not justified while trying to be "funny". The fathers are clear at this point. Nothing more is to say.

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

[Constantine]

Bless, Father!

To this I would only add Our Lord's words from St. Matthew's Gospel: "Do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to attack you" (7:6).

Let me be clear from the outset: I am not suggesting that Baptists are either dogs or swine, much less that Orthodox are in danger of being attacked by them. Rather, it's got less to do with Baptists (or other heterodox, for that matter) and more to do with those to whom the Eucharist has been given/entrusted, namely, the Church. Our Lord's words in the Sermon serve as a warning to clergy not to be too quick to serve the Holy Communion. This is the point of the Didache's reference to Matt 7:6, is it not (Didache 9:5)?

Kissing your right hand, I am,

Yours in Christ,
Constantine


Communion in the Orthodox Church is neither open nor closed. Rather for the Church the focus is on a true participation in Christ in all that we do. For there to be a true participation in Christ we must share in the Faith of the Church. And only by sharing in this Faith are we truly able we share in the Body and Blood of Christ. So sharing in the Faith of the Church and sharing in the sacraments of the Church always have to kept tied together.

Look at it the other way around. To partake in the Body and Blood of Christ without sharing in the Faith of the Church is to seek communion with Christ while denying Who He is. This denial of the Church while seeking Christ is like looking for sunshine while denying the sun. The result of communing in this state would be cutting ourselves off from the Church & depriving ourselves of Christ's grace.

This is also why we do not allow ourselves to commune from other confessions. This is not at all statement that 'we're better' or something like that. It's that for us it would be a betrayal of Christ to seek communion with His Body while not caring about how Faith in Him was expressed. We cannot separate Christ from His Body the Church or from His Body the sacrament.

In Christ- Fr Raphael