Purgation - purification of the will

[Celinda Grace]

I would like to start a thread putting together some thoughts on the mystical tradition of the chruch and what is involved in the path to salvation as taught by the Church fathers.

Traditionally this path has been divided up into three stages -purgation, illumination and divinization. Here are some initial thoughts and questions on purgation.

The Patristic fathers talk about battling against the passions, and in the context of a monastery this means battling against thoughts that arise in the mind in order to reach a state of dispassion. Dispassion (as far as I understand it) is a state of inner freedom where one's inner disposition is stable rather then having all kinds of uncontrolled emotions, thoughts and impulses constantly arising and disturbing it.

In more modern discussions of what it takes to follow Christ both in my own tradition and in Orthodoxy I hear people talking about the need to convert their whole life into Christ, such that Christ alone is our desire and our goal.

As I was trying to reconcile these approaches it came to me that the point where they meet is in the will. In each of these what is being striven for is a purification of the will such that it is wholly empty of our own willing and wholly in His will. Jesus said, "I do nothing on my own initiative but I do only what the Father shows me."

Here is my question: What means have you more or less successfully employed for purifying your will while living in the world rather then in a monastery? Obviously large chunks of time are not available for meditation and battling the thoughts as monastics do.

How can we overcome the constant input from the world and keep our interior life protected from it?

What stages or signs of growing conversion do you recognize in your life? How has God been involved in this? How has your battle against sin changed as you go through these stages?

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Celinda,

You've raised some very interesting points in this recent post. My thanks in advance for the discussion that might ensue.

Regarding the question of the will in particular, you wrote:


Here is my question: What means have you more or less successfully employed for purifying your will while living in the world rather then in a monastery? Obviously large chunks of time are not available for meditation and battling the thoughts as monastics do.

This is an essential question to the topic of Orthopraxis, or the living-out of the Orthodox life. And as you've rightly identified, this life, as the 'Life in Christ', is and always must be modelled on the life of Christ - which, as you note, is one of humble obedience.

Purification of will is always the project of humility in obedience. The root problem of sin is the transformation of the will toward the self rather than toward God; and the ultimate repair of this wound is the renewal of obedience that brings the will back into accord with the will of the Father in Christ.

This is why the Church so regularly teaches that the way of healing of sin is obedience - and I am every day more convinced that the sorrowful state of Christian transformation of the world (beginning with each person) is the direct result of a lack of focus on and understanding of obedience as this chief pastoral tool.

To control the will, one must not attempt to gain success by fighting simply against specific issues which are in fact the after- or side-effects of disobedient willing: passionate impulses, wandering thoughts, etc. The root cause of these is the will that has lost control and focus on God. The real control over a wandering mind, over passionate impulses, comes in the transformation of a mind and heart into the will of God, which comes first and foremost in the Christian life through the submission of the will in obedient relation.

The life in Christ, the life of the Church, is fundamentally a life of obedience: to the liturgical cycles, to the commandments and virtues, to the guidance of the spiritual father (i.e. the parish priest, in most parish settings), to the Gospel injunctions. It is a life being conformed to God, and it is this 'active passivity', or better, 'intentional receptivity', that is the focus of the obedient life.

The best way to overcome the fallen impulses of the will is to engage wholly and whole-heartedly with the fabric of obedience that the Church provides. First and foremost is obedience to the liturgical life of the Church herself: without this, one is skirting around the edges of a transformed will whilst attempting to create the environment of that transformation for one's self -- intrinsically a self-willed act.

It is through the process of obedient submission to the liturgical life of the Church that the obedience of mind is best born. That to which an individual mind -- my mind, your mind -- is called in terms of its own transformation into the heart, is born out of the obedience to the Church's mysterion, or liturgical being. I am brought, through the chalice and the ministers provided by God to bring me to it, to an awareness of those 'tools', or ascetical practices, that most directly feed my need for transformation of will. It is only when this awareness comes through obedience in the life of the Church, that it comes for the will, rather than from it.

You further asked:


How can we overcome the constant input from the world and keep our interior life protected from it?

Once again, the best beginning is to find centre and solace in that Body that is 'in the world, not of it', which exists precisely as a haven from the brokenness of the world, in a manner that allows transformative engagement of it, rather than simply some kind of false escape. To unite one's being fully to the liturgical life of the worshipping Body of Christ is to become a living part of that Body, which 'shines in the darkness, yet the darkness does not overcome it'.

The interior life of the heart is guarded from the temptations of the world precisely when it is fed on something else. Simply to withdraw or wall off the noise of the world will not address the deeper issue of a will and heart accustomed to feeding itself, rather than being fed by Christ. To unite the will to Christ in the mysteries of the Church is to provide the heart with the nourishment that enables it to face the world without the world overcoming it.

INXC, Matthew

(NB: Just as a pedantic aside, 'patristic fathers' is redundant!)

[Herman Blaydoe]

Oh my, but the toolbox for an Orthodox Christian is indeed well stocked!

We have the calendar itself, which conforms us to Salvation History. We have the sacraments, we have our own prayer rules, and icons, and the words of the Fathers to help us appreciate, understand, and incorporate the Word of our Father into our lives. It depends on how much time and energy you are willing to "invest" to buy the pearl of great price.

We have all the little "traditions" that we observe in our homes to help us remember to bring Christ out of Sunday and remember Him throughout the week. We have the lives of the saints, to show us how a life lived in Christ ought to look, and examples of what can be accomplished if we devote ourselves to the task and run the course of the race.

The Orthodox Church is blessed with the FULLNESS of the Faith, in as much as we choose to partake of it, given our current situation and circumstances of course.

[Karena Hryniuk]

What you have started here Celinda is sure to be an interesting thread. I'll add just a few more thoughts that are sure to keep it going strong.

Not long ago I had a conversation with a friend that made a very interesting statement (in not so many words and with utmost respect) 'Being encased by walls of a monastery would be all too easy. Instead we are placed as soldiers in society to face the demons head on..and still maintain that spectacular amount of light we are called to..'

This, with the understanding that there are some of us that lead very devoted pious and reserved lives on the outside.


In more modern discussions of what it takes to follow Christ both in my own tradition and in Orthodoxy I hear people talking about the need to convert their whole life into Christ, such that Christ alone is our desire and our goal.

Do we all carry this need? And if so, Is it possible to acheive these states or even portions of deliverance and divinization while placing onesself in the midst of the world outside the protective walls of a monastery?

In Christ,
~Karena

[Nina]

Dear Celinda,

In addition to the great posts above from Matthew and Herman, please read this (http://greekorthodoxchurch.org/theosis_contents.html) It also answers your questions.

[Andrew]

The Orthodox spiritual life works wherever you are, whatever context you're in, whether married, monastic, or anything else. While at work you can use each uncomfortable situation as a means of humbling the self, creating pain of heart, and thus communing with Our Lord. You can direct your mind back towards the Prayer whenever you stray. You can see family, coworkers, and other people you come across as saints, and yourself as unworthy to be in their presence... "All shall be saved, I alone shall perish." You can try to see Christ in others. You can hum hymns to yourself. When family or coworkers ask you to do something, you humble yourself and do it for their benefit. If you're cooking for your family, you give everyone else bigger, tastier portions. If you want to have a snack but don't need to, you resist it and abstain. When you want to watch TV but know you shouldn't, you abstain.

You try to keep the memory of the Presence of God before you at all times, crying out the Prayer. When you get distracted, you humbly, gently bring your attention back to the prayer.

Don't think that I do these things... this is all stuff my spiritual father has told me.

[Celinda Grace]

Do we all carry this need? And if so, Is it possible to acheive these states or even portions of deliverance and divinization while placing onesself in the midst of the world outside the protective walls of a monastery?

I would contend that a life of continual conversion ever deeper into Christ is the essence of what it means to be saved.

I am not sure what you are asking when you say is it possible to achieve 'these states'. What do you mean by 'these states'?

Here are some examples of what I mean when I talk of a continuing conversion (this is from my experience in the PC so it may not precisely fit in an OC context without some modification.)

When I first became a Christian I did so out of my own need. Not knowing much about God I made a deal -you help me, I'll obey you.

Later after I came to know Him better and started to experience more fully what Christ had done for me my approach changed to one of thanksgiving and an effort to give back some of what he had given me. This attitude has hopefully manifested itself in a growing experience of being able to give back more and more of myself to Him.

Watchman Nee and Oswald Chambers both whom I would consider Protestant saints, stress the need to reach the point where one can sincerely resolve to lay aside all conditions on what we do with ourselves and turn it wholly over to God. Being abandoned to God Chambers calls it. Nee calls us to lay our lives into His hands without condition, with no reservation. Both of these men lived out the fullness of this outside of any monastic context. Both were ministers involved in teaching and evangelism in the world. I am sure there must be Orthodox saints that are not monastics also.


The root cause of these is the will that has lost control and focus on God.

What is involved in this process? As Andrew says an intention to practice staying aware of God at all times. As Matthew says -obedience to the gosple and the church at ever deeper levels.

[Celinda Grace]

The best way to overcome the fallen impulses of the will is to engage wholly and whole-heartedly with the fabric of obedience that the Church provides.

Matthew,

Here is a question. Someone can choose to obey the parish priest, do the liturgy etc. However, in this they are still being self-willed because they are choosing to obey. How then does one get past this and enter whole-heartedly into obedience that goes beyond a self-willed obedience?

The answer to this question of will is played out differently in the PC. But I am out of time and will have to post on this later.

[Mary]

Matthew,

Here is a question. Someone can choose to obey the parish priest, do the liturgy etc. However, in this they are still being self-willed because they are choosing to obey. How then does one get past this and enter whole-heartedly into obedience that goes beyond a self-willed obedience?

The answer to this question of will is played out differently in the PC. But I am out of time and will have to post on this later.

Maybe you get past it when you truly love God? Dunno. Just a thought.

Mary

[Antonios]

Here is a question. Someone can choose to obey the parish priest, do the liturgy etc. However, in this they are still being self-willed because they are choosing to obey. How then does one get past this and enter whole-heartedly into obedience that goes beyond a self-willed obedience?

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened." (Matthew 7:7-9)

God does not expect us to be passive.

"Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!" (Matthew 7:10-11)

God will always provide.

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 7:12)

Glory to the Holy Trinity! Glory be to God!

[Karena Hryniuk]

I don't feel it is possible for me to describe what 'state' I refer to. But maybe these next few words will help.

Read what you wrote again...


When I first became a Christian I did so out of my own need. Not knowing much about God I made a deal -you help me, I'll obey you.

Deliverance comes with gratitude and love for Gods will without having personal wants, needs or any set condition.

Without speaking for anyone else here...I don't ever ask or expect God to help me, I just obey.

Divinization? Yes.

~Karena

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Celinda, you wrote:


Here is a question. Someone can choose to obey the parish priest, do the liturgy etc. However, in this they are still being self-willed because they are choosing to obey. How then does one get past this and enter whole-heartedly into obedience that goes beyond a self-willed obedience?

Thank you for this: it is a very important point.

The purification of the will is a continual struggle of the will's re-orientation, away from selfish desires and a debased love for the world, to a desire for and of the Father, which brings with it a renewed love for creation. But this battle against the fallen self, or rather the way our broken will misperceives and is enslaved to the self, is a battle for the transformation of desire, not its abolition. Not everything rising from the self is intrinsically 'selfish' in the negative sense of that word.

The work of purification of the will must always start with an act of will, whatever its focus or motivation. The question is where, or to what, that act orientates us. Does it plunge me deeper into my arrogant desire to rule and better myself? Or does it place me at the feet of Christ in obedient love and submission?

The impulse of will is important. Even Christ asks the paralytic: 'Do you want to be healed?' St Cyril of Jerusalem dwelt on this question intently in one of his only surviving homilies: Christ draws the will and desire to himself. He writes:
"So Jesus asked the paralytic, 'Do you want to be healed?' Observe the healer's great skill, in that he makes the cure depend on the desire. It is because salvation comes through faith that the man was asked, 'Do you want?, so that the desire might prepare the way for the miracle. [...] Jesus gives even the desire; he accepts the faith and grants the favour without a fee."
Christ 'gives even the desire' not inasmuch as he implants a response in a person, or mandates a conviction. He grants desire by providing an encounter with himself that makes the transformation of redemption visible and present, and this draws the heart toward itself. What is born out of this encounter is a will drawn toward God - and a response. Christ repeats this kind of injunction many times: 'If you would be perfect...', etc.

The important point of this desire, of this will to be transformed, is that it places one in a relationship of obedience to the healer. 'If you would be perfect' ends with a command of obedience: 'go, sell all that you have...'. And Christ's question to the paralytic, 'Do you want to be healed?', ends with the man placing himself in obedient submission to his healer, doing what is commanded, even though it is a radical break with his past expectations, his knowledge and his understanding. Yet the desire 'prepares the way for the miracle' because it places him in obedience to Christ, the worker of miracles.

We might ask whether the paralytic's desire to be healed was selfless, divinely-orientated, or selfish. What was his motivation? Perhaps it was the latter. The real question is where that desire led him. In the encounter with Christ, his desire became a desire in Christ; and by submission to the one to whom that desire brought him, he received beyond what he had anticipated - healing of his body, but also forgiveness of his sins. A purification of will came precisely through an act of will born out of encounter and directed towards Christ.

It is similar when we approach life in the Church. You are right, that to approach the life of the Liturgy as the forum for obedience and transformation is something one chooses to do; but we are creatures of will, and will always be willing any activity. The fact that our will is now broken, abased, does not mean that it must be corrected before genuine submission to Christ can be wrought: Christ in his Church comes not to heal the healthy, but the ailing.

You later wrote:


When I first became a Christian I did so out of my own need. Not knowing much about God I made a deal -you help me, I'll obey you.Many people first engage Christianity in this way; it is a side-effect of a broken relationship between man and God. The question is, do we really follow through with the 'I'll obey'. Or is what we really mean, 'Heal me, and I'll engage with you further as I wish'.

It is in taking that first step, in saying 'Yes, I do want to be healed', and then entering into the obedient life of Christian discipleship, the life of the Church as Christ's body, that the will is then set in the forum of its purification and growth.

INXC, Matthew

[Celinda Grace]

The question is where, or to what, that act orientates us. Does it plunge me deeper into my arrogant desire to rule and better myself? Or does it place me at the feet of Christ in obedient love and submission?


He grants desire by providing an encounter with himself that makes the transformation of redemption visible and present, and this draws the heart toward itself. What is born out of this encounter is a will drawn toward God - and a response.


The important point of this desire, of this will to be transformed, is that it places one in a relationship of obedience to the healer.


The life in Christ, the life of the Church, is fundamentally a life of obedience: to the liturgical cycles, to the commandments and virtues, to the guidance of the spiritual father (i.e. the parish priest, in most parish settings), to the Gospel injunctions. It is a life being conformed to God, and it is this 'active passivity', or better, 'intentional receptivity', that is the focus of the obedient life.
In order to be in a relationship of obedience to the healer one must become aware of the healer in the things that are listed above rather then simply being aware of the things themselves.

Also, some of these things are easy to be in obedience to, others take more thought and care. I am thinking specifically of the commandments and virtues and the gospel injunctions because these have to be interpreted and applied in specific situations of living in the world.

In trying to continually reorient the will in a context outside of direct response to a spiritual father or set structures in the church a question we can ask ourselves is, "am I doing this action only for myself or am I doing it in obedience to what I believe Christ has called me to; am I doing it out of a desire to please God or simply to be self-satisfied? Sometimes the motives are mixed but this is where we have to trust God to lead us and let He, Himself purify us.

By examining the motivations behind each action we can cooperate with God in leading us to a deeper place where those motives are more easily discernable. Growing discernment enables one to start to encounter the root of our self-centeredness and we become more aware of our sin. This brings us to a point of deeper repentance and struggle at a more interior level.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Deleted, content no longer applicable.

[Mary]

Just eating my words....

[Celinda Grace]

Since I had this post up here and there seems no way to take it off entirely I thought I might as well use the space.

Since the process of purification of the will involves ascetic struggle does anyone have any words of wisdom about what they do when the prayer rule, rules for fasting etc. become such an ingrained habit that they are no longer a struggle. Does one simply find other avenues for ascetism or does one attempt to stretch oneself in these venues?

[Basil Smith]

Thank You, Mary(in your response to Celinda Grace) on the subject of wisdom and spiritual things outside the Orthodox Church-very well put.I wish I had the time to read-and be edified-by all the writings of the Church Fathers and to read about the countless Saints throughout 2,000 years.I can't imagine trying to read a non-Orthodox book-on matters of faith-because I may not know much(or put into practice what I've discovered) but I know that the fullness of Christianity lies within the Church of ChristTHANK YOU AGAIN....Basil.

[Herman Blaydoe]

This post has been deleted

[Andrew]

I respect them not revere them. Maybe my attitude towards the saints needs and adjustment. I don't know. Time and experience will tell. I bring them up because they represent the fullness of the PC. If you are going to ask me to buy into the fact that the OC has a fuller Christainity then the PC I am not going to compare my experience of the PC to the OC, but the fullness of the PC to the OC.

Here are some good books to read about Orthodox saints of the modern world.

A Night in the Desert of the Holy Mountain, by Metropolitan Hierotheos Vlachos (basically an extended conversation with Elder Sophrony, who reposed in 1993)
Wounded By Love, Elder Porphyrios (a saint who reposed in 1991)
Saint Silouan the Athonite, by Elder Sophrony (or for shorter reads, The Monk of Mount Athos, and Wisdom from Mount Athos) -- this book is worth more than its weight in gold.
We Shall See Him As He Is, by Elder Sophrony -- the same as above.
Precious Vessels of the Holy Spirit
Elder Joseph the Hesychast, by Elder Joseph of Vatopedi

As for saints who engaged the context of the modern West, I think Elder Sophrony is a good place to look. His monastery, his writings, and his person are all unique and in some ways innovative, but truly traditional and Orthodox. He has made quite an impact upon Orthodoxy in America in a way that is not always visible at first sight... many priests in the OCA are deeply driven by his person and message (which is handed down from Our Lord to St. Silouan to Elder Sophrony), and their spiritual advice, confessions, sermons, manner in serving the liturgy and approaching pastoral care are all permeated with the teachings of Elder Sophrony. The spiritual children of Elder Zacharias, a spiritual son of Elder Sophrony, have a greatly positive spiritual influence within America. I know this firsthand.

Within the Antiochian jurisdiction Bishop Basil of Witchita is deeply driven by the message of Elder Sophrony, and oftentimes has his monastic brother Elder Zacharias serve as a guide during pastoral conferences for the diocese. The book Enlargement of the Heart is a great one to read.

A different approach, but not much different, to the ascetical life within the context of non-monastic American life can be seen in those priests and laypeople who are directed by the influence of Elder Joseph, through the Athonite monasteries of Elder Ephraim in the US. This is truly a pan-Orthodox phenomena... these monasteries attract people from all different backgrounds and disseminate the traditional Orthodox way of prayer according to the teachings of Athonite saints.

I'm sure the people within ROCOR on this messageboard can tell more about the legacy of Blessed Seraphim, St. John the Wonderworker, the various fathers at Jordanville, Archbishop Averky and the various holy Russian men. There is a very special spiritual legacy within ROCOR that I am not fully aware of! How is the particular approach of the holy men in ROCOR lived out within America?

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear friends,

Please do not use the 'edit' feature of the system to radically alter your posts, or to delete posts already made. This deeply upsets the flow of a discussion, as past comments no longer apply, responses don't fit, etc. The edit feature should be used primarily only to make minor corrections (spelling errors, grammar, slight missed points, etc.; more information here (http://www.monachos.net/forum/faq.php?faq=vb_read_and_post#faq_vb_edit_posts)). But once posts are made to the system they should remain largely unchanged except for such slight corrections.

The 'Edit history' feature on posts allows users to see past versions of posts, so that in case the feature is used too radically, it is possible to see previous versions.

INXC, Matthew

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Celinda, you wrote:


In order to be in a relationship of obedience to the healer one must become aware of the healer in the things that are listed above rather then simply being aware of the things themselves.

This is a lovely comment. It is very much a matter of transfigured perception. An ancient monastic practice (clearly not applicable as such in parishes) is that dokimoi, or 'those-trying-it-out' (i.e. 'novices', a term which doesn't have the same meaning) are given what seem deeply menial tasks as their first diakonimata, or obediences of service, at the monastery -- washing dishes, sweeping floors, laundry, etc. Not deeply spiritual reading, not ecclesiastical functions: but the 'lowly' and ordinary. The aim is precisely to provide a context and time in which prayer transfigures perception of the ordinary, so that the most menial of labours are understood to be themselves teachers, and that the person may discover that there is spiritual profit to be found in even the most minute of acts of obedience. Only when this perception yields on the 'ordinary' things can one ever hope to draw from it at the level of higher spiritual realities. One purifies the eyes so they can truly see, and the ears that they might truly hear.

The same general pattern applies in parish settings also. Many people come to the Church with the desire to engage in a life of prayer, seeking at the first breath to emulate St Symeon and stand in their room to behold the divine light of God (this may sound a jest, but is not; I've seen this happen more times than I can remember). But beginnings come in other ways - real and secure beginnings, that is. I remember fondly a priest once responding to a fervent person's request for the 'first steps in prayer' with, 'Come to Church for each service, and look after the candle desk'.


Also, some of these things are easy to be in obedience to, others take more thought and care. I am thinking specifically of the commandments and virtues and the gospel injunctions because these have to be interpreted and applied in specific situations of living in the world. Indeed! This is why there are pastoral patterns to the life in Christ. One does not make a beginning just anywhere (the most common error these days, with easy access to the Philokalia in translation, itself a great blessing, is that people open it up and take it - a handbook on ascetical spirituality of a very high level and monastic distinction - as a starters guide). One is generally given to make a beginning with the small things; the greater follow.

I think this is connected to a question you raised in a later post:


Since the process of purification of the will involves ascetic struggle does anyone have any words of wisdom about what they do when the prayer rule, rules for fasting etc. become such an ingrained habit that they are no longer a struggle. Does one simply find other avenues for ascetism or does one attempt to stretch oneself in these venues?

Part of the reality of prayer as part of a relationship with the Church, priest, and spiritual father, is that it is continually pastoral in its formation. As needs change, so does instruction. This is right at the heart of the 'dynamism' (for lack of a better word) of prayer as it is understood in this way: our prayer develops with us, and we with it - with guidance and instruction so that this development is healthy and productive, rather than dangerous and self-destructive.

Of course, the pastoral response to things becoming habitual may well be radically different, as the situation and person demands. For some, it may be that the pastoral response is to be given altered prayers, an alteration of the 'rule', to be given new work. For others, it may well be that the response is precisely to be told, 'steady on'. One thing that the ascetical fathers in particular are insistent upon is that boredom with prayer is among the greatest hurdles, and is not always a sign of having become too accustomed to it, such that it is no longer a challenge, but of being so tied to the pleasure-seeking appetites of the soul that the moment something does not 'thrill' or excite, we feel it boring and pointless - and thus sometimes arrive at the door of true prayer, but turn and walk the other way.

This connects things back to the topic of the will. The most serious challenge in prayer is often teh struggle with a will that, linguistically reduntantly, does not will it, even as it wishes to will it. And this is exactly why 'prayer' is not simply a kind of basic practice of contemplation or communication: it is itself ascetical, in that it transforms the will, so that through the work of prayer the will as transformed and in turn gives birth to a deeper, more interior prayer of communion with God. As the will has different habits and appetites, so prayer works in different ways. There are types of prayer that work with the will's need for comfort, some that work against its lust to abuse the same. There are forms of prayer that guide the will's freedom, and forms that teach the will how to give its freedom to Christ.

You also wrote:


In trying to continually reorient the will in a context outside of direct response to a spiritual father or set structures in the church a question we can ask ourselves is, "am I doing this action only for myself or am I doing it in obedience to what I believe Christ has called me to; am I doing it out of a desire to please God or simply to be self-satisfied? Sometimes the motives are mixed but this is where we have to trust God to lead us and let He, Himself purify us.

By examining the motivations behind each action we can cooperate with God in leading us to a deeper place where those motives are more easily discernable. Growing discernment enables one to start to encounter the root of our self-centeredness and we become more aware of our sin. This brings us to a point of deeper repentance and struggle at a more interior level.This is excellent advice. In all things, God is to be called to mind. With the cross in front of one eyes, it is hard to see anything else the same.

One then asks, 'How do I take this new perception, these new realisations, and make them the foundation for a true transfiguration?' And here the will, and the person, needs transformation to come in relation. It is not done alone.

INXC, Matthew

[Celinda Grace]

Matthew,

Sorry for the mess, it is my fault. The changes were made at my instigation when it seemed things had gotten entirely off topic.

Humbly in Christ,
Celinda

[Celinda Grace]

Many people first engage Christianity in this way; it is a side-effect of a broken relationship between man and God. The question is, do we really follow through with the 'I'll obey'.

One then asks, 'How do I take this new perception, these new realisations, and make them the foundation for a true transfiguration?' And here the will, and the person, needs transformation to come in relation. It is not done alone.
Are there not those who have done it mostly alone with Christ? Is not that the heart of the way of the hermit?

Most though don’t have the wisdom or will for it. I have seen two types of problems when it comes to attempting to follow through with the “I’ll obey.” One is complacency where one gets trapped in desiring the easy thing, the other is self-sufficiency where one drives oneself into the ground in an attempt to accomplish one’s own salvation. It is in finding some balance between these two that I would imagine the pastoral approach helps greatly.



The real question is where that desire led him. In the encounter with Christ, his desire became a desire in Christ; and by submission to the one to whom that desire brought him, he received beyond what he had anticipated.
This I think is the heart of getting out of self-willed obedience. In receiving from Christ, in encountering Love, a love returned is stirred in the heart that takes one out of oneself. At least that is how I read the saints that I am familiar with. Even in our normal human relationships think what happens in our hearts when we come across someone who we recognize as truly loving us. Which but the hardest or most wounded of hearts can fail to respond, not out of conscious choice but simply out of our own nature?

In seeing answered prayer or in learning to truly appreciate our life, the creation, our relationships, etc. as gifts from God we open up to start receiving Love and this allows a response to arise. As we look back at our lives and see that all things (whether 'good' or 'bad' in worldly judgement)work together for the good of those that love Him, we recognize His love for us.


The same general pattern applies in parish settings also. Many people come to the Church with the desire to engage in a life of prayer, seeking at the first breath to emulate St Symeon and stand in their room to behold the divine light of God …. Indeed! This is why there are pastoral patterns to the life in Christ. One does not make a beginning just anywhere

This is one thing I do not find in my corner of the PC. Generally those who come seeking God are seeking righteousness and truth, not some experience or type of prayer. There is only one place to begin.