Administrator
07-07-2007, 06:12 PM
The following letter has recently been distributed to all registered members of the Discussion Community by e-mail. As it is recognised that some members' e-mail systems may filter some message as junk mail or spam, the message is being reproduced here for additional access.
PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE CAREFULLY, AS IT CONTAINS IMPORTANT INFORMATION ON CHANGES TO POLICY ON THE MONACHOS.NET DISCUSSION COMMUNITY.
From the Community forum moderators.
Dear members of the Monachos.net Discussion Community,
We are grateful to the many members of the Discussion Community who have been in touch recently with thoughts on the current life of the forum, as well as hopes for its future course, etc. It has been a characteristic of the forum since it was first established that its ‘community feel’ has led members to be involved in looking after its life, and we, as the moderators of the Community, are very happy to see that this trend continues unabated.
Regular and longstanding members of the Discussion Community will be aware that there have been certain issues in the life of the forum over the past year (approximately) that have resulted in—intentionally or otherwise—a shifting of the focus of the forum from its past grounding. After several months of considering these matters carefully, we have come to the conclusion that certain measures need to be taken in order to bring things back ‘on track’ and carry forward the life of this on-line Community in the months and years ahead.
With that in mind, we would like to discuss, below, a few of the pertinent issues of late; and at this letter’s end to inform all registered members of the Discussion Community of some formal changes in policy that will take effect on Sunday, 25th June / 8th July 2007.
Discussion of Orthodoxy through patristic study
We would like to begin by taking this opportunity to remind members of the unique focus and purpose of this Discussion Community: Orthodoxy through patristic, monastic, liturgical and ecclesiastical study. The forum is not dedicated simply to the study of patristics—and indeed never has been. While the Monachos.net web site contains numerous resources on the fathers of the Church applicable to study in any context, the site’s Discussion Community is dedicated particularly and very precisely to Orthodoxy, as explored through its patristic, monastic, liturgical and ecclesiastical heritage. It is not a forum simply for ‘patristic studies’, but for study and discussion of the Orthodox Church and life, through her patristic testimony.
To some, this distinction (which has always been present: ‘Orthodoxy through Patristic, Monastic & Liturgical Study’ has been on the banner at the top-right of every page since 2001) has not been well understood, and the forum has been mis-perceived by a few as a discussion area for ‘patristics’ writ large. Such misunderstanding has caused some to become confused or frustrated when threads of discussion that seem to them relevant to the general field of the study of patristics, are not deemed within the scope of the forum. We can then take advantage of this opportunity to remind all readers and members of the forum that its focus is on the Orthodox Church and life, read through her fathers—not simply on patristics as a general and wholly open-ended theme.
This focus has always been part of the Discussion Community’s aim. When it was first founded, it was because a number of Orthodox discussion fora existed (as they exist now) to discuss Orthodoxy more generally; but there were none for focussing on the Church in its patristic and monastic heritage. So the Discussion Community was created as, in large part, precisely a place for Orthodox discussion to focus on its patristic heritage as it relates to the Church—not simply as a general forum on all things patristic (such places also exist elsewhere). This is still very much our aim and intention with the site.
‘Not a forum for discussion of Orthodoxy with respect to other Christian churches, denominations, or religious faiths’
Reflecting further on the when the Discussion Community was first formed, it had a number of specific purposes in mind. First was to provide a forum for discussion of Orthodoxy, as we have described just above, not in general terms, but specifically from her monastic and patristic background (and thus not to be a general Orthodox discussion forum, but one with a specific and tight focus); and second was to create a space that is not focussed on inter-church / inter-denominational relations and compared perspectives. There were in 2000, and there are now, a tremendous number of on-line sites, fora, and e-discussion lists dedicated to precisely this, many of which are longstanding entities, highly respected and useful. Given this context, our wish was precisely to create something different: a discussion community that set that important topic to one side, for proper and good discussion elsewhere, in order to focus here on other things – specifically, issues such as the Church’s life in the embrace of her monastic heritage, etc., that often are not able to be treated well and wholly in fora that spend considerable time in inter-Christian discussion.
This has always been a ‘guiding principle’ of the Monachos.net Discussion Community’s emphasis. We have taken pains all along to ensure that readers are aware that such inter-church discourse is important, holy and good, and necessary in our contemporary world perhaps more than ever before; and to be assured that this forum’s deliberate choice not to focus on such discussion is not a slight to its importance or relevance. It is partially because such conversation deserves proper, organised and careful treatment, that we have always felt it better served by other fora, dedicated properly to it; and similarly, we firmly believe that discussion of our own topics is best served in an environment that focuses solely on them.
This, too, has been misunderstood by some over the past months, with more and more discussions brought round to topics of inter-church relations, comparisons, histories, etc. We have noted this with some regret, as have many members who have written in to ask about it. Whilst efforts have been made to remind posters of the forum’s focus and scope in this regard, such trends have not abated. The result of this is that some of the Discussion Community’s unique focus and emphasis has been blurred, and its own mission as a place to explore Orthodoxy through its patristic and monastic heritage (and not as a place to compare Orthodoxy with other traditions) has been ‘greyed’ by generalising the forum in the very ways it was set up to avoid.
Once again, we would stress that such inter-church questions are important and relevant, but that they are not appropriate to this forum. We have never wished to see, or for anyone else to see, the Discussion Community as an independent, all-sufficient entity on Orthodox dialogue—if that were the case, a scope that did not include inter-church perspectives and conversations would be a situation of ‘putting on the blinders’ and taking a somewhat imperialistic view of the Church. But this forum has always been meant to exist along side others that deal precisely with such issues; and it is in harmony with the mission of such sites that the broader scope of important matters can be addressed. The place of the Monachos.net Discussion Community in this dialogue is specifically—and solely—the focus on Orthodoxy through its patristic and monastic heritage. We provide, in the Monachos Links Catalogue, a selection of links to other Orthodox discussion groups / lists (http://www.monachos.net/forum/../links/Discussion_Forums_and_Lists/), so as to enable readers to locate and participate in the broader range of discussions pertinent to the breadth of Orthodox thought and life in the world.
The context of Orthodoxy
Part (though far indeed from all) of this recent confusion of focus has been a side-effect of the very terms ‘Orthodoxy’ and ‘Orthodox’, understood differently by different individuals, including different traditions. Here there is a particular question of relationship with brothers and sisters of the Oriental Churches, often known as Oriental Orthodox. The history of the relationship of the Oriental and Eastern churches (an amusing linguistic distinction in any case, given that ‘oriental’ means ‘eastern’) is ancient, with centuries of common heritage as well as centuries of division on different levels. Theologically, the situation is similar: there is much of common perception, expression and articulation, as well as much of distinct theological language and practice. In recent years, careful study and prayerful dialogue have—thanks to God—begun to reveal fallacies of stereotyped conflicts, as well as points of common belief that have long lay hidden beneath antiquated layers of polemic. These same dialogues have also revealed areas for constructive conversation on divergences that still remain. We can only be thankful for these wonderful moves forward. There is much yet to be done.
That said, the Oriental Churches represent a distinct and different ecclesiastical tradition than that of the Orthodox Church which the Monachos.net Discussion Community exists to explore and discuss—namely, ‘the Church of the seven ecumenical councils, which include Chalcedon, as found in the ancient patriarchates of the Eastern Orthodox communion’, as the Community Outline (http://www.monachos.net/forum/faq.php?faq=mb_tos#faq_tos_part2) states. When ‘Orthodoxy’ as a term is used on this site, as in its mission and focus, it always refers to this Church. This is as much for the sake of clarity as it is for the sake of the forum’s mission, which is dedicated to the exploration of the life and thought of this Church.
Some confusion has arisen over the past year in particular, with the varying use of the term ‘Orthodox’ in reference to these (and other) different traditions—particularly when, for example, it arises in discussions where ‘the Orthodox view’ is being discussed, though that term is used by Chalcedonian as well as non-Chalcedonian participants. For all their commonalities, these are in fact two different traditions, and though they may have tremendous quantities in common, they are not one and the same. This is a source of confusion for some; but perhaps more than this, it again blurs the focus of this forum, which is particularly on Orthodoxy—that is, Chalcedonian Orthodoxy—through its patristic, monastic and liturgical heritage.
We realise that there is no way this distinction of focus can fail to disappoint some, and moreover, that the question of use of the term ‘Orthodox’ is fraught between these traditions (as well as others). There is no question that some will feel the forum’s set use and meaning of the term will offend some readers, and that assurances that this is not meant to slight the other will not always satisfy. But in terms of the Discussion Community’s emphasis and scope, Orthodoxy here means, and always means, Chalcedonian Orthodoxy.
CHANGES TO POLICY FOR THE FUTURE
The above points are not new: they have been the points of structure, aim and policy of the Discussion Community since its founding. However, trends arising in the forum over past months have blurred these lines, which is why we’ve taken the opportunity to discuss them here. Moreover, attempts to curb the bending of these guides (with their resulting shift in the focus of the forum) through usual past means have not been wholly successful. In this light, we have felt it necessary to take steps to bring the Discussion Community back into its proper orientation and focus. Please could all members take careful note of the following, which are changes in policy that will take effect from Sunday, 25th June / 8th July 2007.
a. In order to re-focus the forum on its intended topic, a firmer line will be taken on the matter of comparative-tradition conversations: namely, no discussions on comparative inter-church topics will be permitted in the Discussion Community. Posts which focus on such issues will be removed, and threads that deal with such themes closed. All members are asked to focus properly on the scope of this forum in future discussions—Orthodoxy through its patristic, monastic and liturgical heritage. This shall now be a strict rule, at least until the forum returns to its proper orientation (at which time it may be altered). Such inter-church and comparative posts/conversations should be taken to fora that deal with them properly; once again, a listing of these is provided in our Links Catalogue (http://www.monachos.net/forum/../links/Discussion_Forums_and_Lists/).
b. In order to assist with the clarity of the scope of the forum, all members will select in their user profile (http://www.monachos.net/forum/profile.php?do=editprofile) one of two types of Community membership: either Orthodox Member, for those members belonging to one of the local churches that are part of the Orthodox Church of the seven ecumenical councils (i.e. ‘Chalcedonian Orthodox’); or Guest From Another Religious Tradition, for those who are from other traditions (the ‘Religious Affiliation’ field will remain in the profile settings, to allow members to indicate more specifically their church affiliation: e.g. Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Protestant, Other, etc.). These two categories of Community membership will allow members of the forum more easily to recognise the broad traditions represented by individual posters—i.e. perspectives that come from within the religious culture of the forum itself, and those that come from guests of other backgrounds, who are always most welcome in the forum.
c. Members are reminded of the Discussion Community’s definition of ‘Orthodox’ and ‘Orthodoxy’ for its purposes, and that for the sake of clarity these terms must only be used in the forum to refer to ‘the Church of the seven ecumenical councils, which include Chalcedon, as found in the ancient patriarchates of the Eastern Orthodox communion’ (from the Terms of Use (http://www.monachos.net/forum/faq.php?faq=mb_tos)). Phrases such as ‘the Orthodox tradition teaches…’, ‘the Orthodox Church has taught…’, etc., must for the sake of clarity and focus in the forum refer to this Orthodox Church, not to another tradition (in line, again, with the Community as not focussed on inter-church relations).
d. Moderators will make more direct use of the forum’s ‘warning’ and ‘infraction’ (yellow card / red card) system (http://www.monachos.net/forum/faq.php?faq=vb_board_usage#faq_faq_infractions) to ensure that these rules, together with the other terms of use of the forum, are kept. The warning/infraction system, already in place and in infrequent use for some time, allows moderators to identify posts that do not follow the rules of the forum, and assign it an infraction. Infractions incur points, depending on the nature of the breech of rules, which accumulate in a member account. Multiple infraction points may result in an account being switched to moderated mode, or in more serious instances have access restricted. You can read further details on the system (http://www.monachos.net/forum/faq.php?faq=vb_board_usage#faq_faq_infractions).
* * * *
It is our intention that these slight shifts in policy, together with the full Terms of Use of the forum, will enable us to bring the Discussion Community back to its proper orientation. We realise that some will take exception to them; however, the time has come to reign-in the blurred focus of past months and return to the Discussion Community to the type and scope of forum it was created to be.
If you have any questions about the contents of this letter, please do not hesitate to contact any of us as Community moderators through the Private Messaging system in the forum (the moderators’ usernames, for the purposes of addressing PMs, are: ‘M.C. Steenberg’; ‘Fr Raphael Vereshack’; and ‘Father David Moser’).
With best wishes, in Christ,
M.C. STEENBERG - FR DAVID MOSER - FR RAPHAEL VERESHACK
Moderators of the Monachos.net Discussion Community
PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE CAREFULLY, AS IT CONTAINS IMPORTANT INFORMATION ON CHANGES TO POLICY ON THE MONACHOS.NET DISCUSSION COMMUNITY.
From the Community forum moderators.
Dear members of the Monachos.net Discussion Community,
We are grateful to the many members of the Discussion Community who have been in touch recently with thoughts on the current life of the forum, as well as hopes for its future course, etc. It has been a characteristic of the forum since it was first established that its ‘community feel’ has led members to be involved in looking after its life, and we, as the moderators of the Community, are very happy to see that this trend continues unabated.
Regular and longstanding members of the Discussion Community will be aware that there have been certain issues in the life of the forum over the past year (approximately) that have resulted in—intentionally or otherwise—a shifting of the focus of the forum from its past grounding. After several months of considering these matters carefully, we have come to the conclusion that certain measures need to be taken in order to bring things back ‘on track’ and carry forward the life of this on-line Community in the months and years ahead.
With that in mind, we would like to discuss, below, a few of the pertinent issues of late; and at this letter’s end to inform all registered members of the Discussion Community of some formal changes in policy that will take effect on Sunday, 25th June / 8th July 2007.
Discussion of Orthodoxy through patristic study
We would like to begin by taking this opportunity to remind members of the unique focus and purpose of this Discussion Community: Orthodoxy through patristic, monastic, liturgical and ecclesiastical study. The forum is not dedicated simply to the study of patristics—and indeed never has been. While the Monachos.net web site contains numerous resources on the fathers of the Church applicable to study in any context, the site’s Discussion Community is dedicated particularly and very precisely to Orthodoxy, as explored through its patristic, monastic, liturgical and ecclesiastical heritage. It is not a forum simply for ‘patristic studies’, but for study and discussion of the Orthodox Church and life, through her patristic testimony.
To some, this distinction (which has always been present: ‘Orthodoxy through Patristic, Monastic & Liturgical Study’ has been on the banner at the top-right of every page since 2001) has not been well understood, and the forum has been mis-perceived by a few as a discussion area for ‘patristics’ writ large. Such misunderstanding has caused some to become confused or frustrated when threads of discussion that seem to them relevant to the general field of the study of patristics, are not deemed within the scope of the forum. We can then take advantage of this opportunity to remind all readers and members of the forum that its focus is on the Orthodox Church and life, read through her fathers—not simply on patristics as a general and wholly open-ended theme.
This focus has always been part of the Discussion Community’s aim. When it was first founded, it was because a number of Orthodox discussion fora existed (as they exist now) to discuss Orthodoxy more generally; but there were none for focussing on the Church in its patristic and monastic heritage. So the Discussion Community was created as, in large part, precisely a place for Orthodox discussion to focus on its patristic heritage as it relates to the Church—not simply as a general forum on all things patristic (such places also exist elsewhere). This is still very much our aim and intention with the site.
‘Not a forum for discussion of Orthodoxy with respect to other Christian churches, denominations, or religious faiths’
Reflecting further on the when the Discussion Community was first formed, it had a number of specific purposes in mind. First was to provide a forum for discussion of Orthodoxy, as we have described just above, not in general terms, but specifically from her monastic and patristic background (and thus not to be a general Orthodox discussion forum, but one with a specific and tight focus); and second was to create a space that is not focussed on inter-church / inter-denominational relations and compared perspectives. There were in 2000, and there are now, a tremendous number of on-line sites, fora, and e-discussion lists dedicated to precisely this, many of which are longstanding entities, highly respected and useful. Given this context, our wish was precisely to create something different: a discussion community that set that important topic to one side, for proper and good discussion elsewhere, in order to focus here on other things – specifically, issues such as the Church’s life in the embrace of her monastic heritage, etc., that often are not able to be treated well and wholly in fora that spend considerable time in inter-Christian discussion.
This has always been a ‘guiding principle’ of the Monachos.net Discussion Community’s emphasis. We have taken pains all along to ensure that readers are aware that such inter-church discourse is important, holy and good, and necessary in our contemporary world perhaps more than ever before; and to be assured that this forum’s deliberate choice not to focus on such discussion is not a slight to its importance or relevance. It is partially because such conversation deserves proper, organised and careful treatment, that we have always felt it better served by other fora, dedicated properly to it; and similarly, we firmly believe that discussion of our own topics is best served in an environment that focuses solely on them.
This, too, has been misunderstood by some over the past months, with more and more discussions brought round to topics of inter-church relations, comparisons, histories, etc. We have noted this with some regret, as have many members who have written in to ask about it. Whilst efforts have been made to remind posters of the forum’s focus and scope in this regard, such trends have not abated. The result of this is that some of the Discussion Community’s unique focus and emphasis has been blurred, and its own mission as a place to explore Orthodoxy through its patristic and monastic heritage (and not as a place to compare Orthodoxy with other traditions) has been ‘greyed’ by generalising the forum in the very ways it was set up to avoid.
Once again, we would stress that such inter-church questions are important and relevant, but that they are not appropriate to this forum. We have never wished to see, or for anyone else to see, the Discussion Community as an independent, all-sufficient entity on Orthodox dialogue—if that were the case, a scope that did not include inter-church perspectives and conversations would be a situation of ‘putting on the blinders’ and taking a somewhat imperialistic view of the Church. But this forum has always been meant to exist along side others that deal precisely with such issues; and it is in harmony with the mission of such sites that the broader scope of important matters can be addressed. The place of the Monachos.net Discussion Community in this dialogue is specifically—and solely—the focus on Orthodoxy through its patristic and monastic heritage. We provide, in the Monachos Links Catalogue, a selection of links to other Orthodox discussion groups / lists (http://www.monachos.net/forum/../links/Discussion_Forums_and_Lists/), so as to enable readers to locate and participate in the broader range of discussions pertinent to the breadth of Orthodox thought and life in the world.
The context of Orthodoxy
Part (though far indeed from all) of this recent confusion of focus has been a side-effect of the very terms ‘Orthodoxy’ and ‘Orthodox’, understood differently by different individuals, including different traditions. Here there is a particular question of relationship with brothers and sisters of the Oriental Churches, often known as Oriental Orthodox. The history of the relationship of the Oriental and Eastern churches (an amusing linguistic distinction in any case, given that ‘oriental’ means ‘eastern’) is ancient, with centuries of common heritage as well as centuries of division on different levels. Theologically, the situation is similar: there is much of common perception, expression and articulation, as well as much of distinct theological language and practice. In recent years, careful study and prayerful dialogue have—thanks to God—begun to reveal fallacies of stereotyped conflicts, as well as points of common belief that have long lay hidden beneath antiquated layers of polemic. These same dialogues have also revealed areas for constructive conversation on divergences that still remain. We can only be thankful for these wonderful moves forward. There is much yet to be done.
That said, the Oriental Churches represent a distinct and different ecclesiastical tradition than that of the Orthodox Church which the Monachos.net Discussion Community exists to explore and discuss—namely, ‘the Church of the seven ecumenical councils, which include Chalcedon, as found in the ancient patriarchates of the Eastern Orthodox communion’, as the Community Outline (http://www.monachos.net/forum/faq.php?faq=mb_tos#faq_tos_part2) states. When ‘Orthodoxy’ as a term is used on this site, as in its mission and focus, it always refers to this Church. This is as much for the sake of clarity as it is for the sake of the forum’s mission, which is dedicated to the exploration of the life and thought of this Church.
Some confusion has arisen over the past year in particular, with the varying use of the term ‘Orthodox’ in reference to these (and other) different traditions—particularly when, for example, it arises in discussions where ‘the Orthodox view’ is being discussed, though that term is used by Chalcedonian as well as non-Chalcedonian participants. For all their commonalities, these are in fact two different traditions, and though they may have tremendous quantities in common, they are not one and the same. This is a source of confusion for some; but perhaps more than this, it again blurs the focus of this forum, which is particularly on Orthodoxy—that is, Chalcedonian Orthodoxy—through its patristic, monastic and liturgical heritage.
We realise that there is no way this distinction of focus can fail to disappoint some, and moreover, that the question of use of the term ‘Orthodox’ is fraught between these traditions (as well as others). There is no question that some will feel the forum’s set use and meaning of the term will offend some readers, and that assurances that this is not meant to slight the other will not always satisfy. But in terms of the Discussion Community’s emphasis and scope, Orthodoxy here means, and always means, Chalcedonian Orthodoxy.
CHANGES TO POLICY FOR THE FUTURE
The above points are not new: they have been the points of structure, aim and policy of the Discussion Community since its founding. However, trends arising in the forum over past months have blurred these lines, which is why we’ve taken the opportunity to discuss them here. Moreover, attempts to curb the bending of these guides (with their resulting shift in the focus of the forum) through usual past means have not been wholly successful. In this light, we have felt it necessary to take steps to bring the Discussion Community back into its proper orientation and focus. Please could all members take careful note of the following, which are changes in policy that will take effect from Sunday, 25th June / 8th July 2007.
a. In order to re-focus the forum on its intended topic, a firmer line will be taken on the matter of comparative-tradition conversations: namely, no discussions on comparative inter-church topics will be permitted in the Discussion Community. Posts which focus on such issues will be removed, and threads that deal with such themes closed. All members are asked to focus properly on the scope of this forum in future discussions—Orthodoxy through its patristic, monastic and liturgical heritage. This shall now be a strict rule, at least until the forum returns to its proper orientation (at which time it may be altered). Such inter-church and comparative posts/conversations should be taken to fora that deal with them properly; once again, a listing of these is provided in our Links Catalogue (http://www.monachos.net/forum/../links/Discussion_Forums_and_Lists/).
b. In order to assist with the clarity of the scope of the forum, all members will select in their user profile (http://www.monachos.net/forum/profile.php?do=editprofile) one of two types of Community membership: either Orthodox Member, for those members belonging to one of the local churches that are part of the Orthodox Church of the seven ecumenical councils (i.e. ‘Chalcedonian Orthodox’); or Guest From Another Religious Tradition, for those who are from other traditions (the ‘Religious Affiliation’ field will remain in the profile settings, to allow members to indicate more specifically their church affiliation: e.g. Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Protestant, Other, etc.). These two categories of Community membership will allow members of the forum more easily to recognise the broad traditions represented by individual posters—i.e. perspectives that come from within the religious culture of the forum itself, and those that come from guests of other backgrounds, who are always most welcome in the forum.
c. Members are reminded of the Discussion Community’s definition of ‘Orthodox’ and ‘Orthodoxy’ for its purposes, and that for the sake of clarity these terms must only be used in the forum to refer to ‘the Church of the seven ecumenical councils, which include Chalcedon, as found in the ancient patriarchates of the Eastern Orthodox communion’ (from the Terms of Use (http://www.monachos.net/forum/faq.php?faq=mb_tos)). Phrases such as ‘the Orthodox tradition teaches…’, ‘the Orthodox Church has taught…’, etc., must for the sake of clarity and focus in the forum refer to this Orthodox Church, not to another tradition (in line, again, with the Community as not focussed on inter-church relations).
d. Moderators will make more direct use of the forum’s ‘warning’ and ‘infraction’ (yellow card / red card) system (http://www.monachos.net/forum/faq.php?faq=vb_board_usage#faq_faq_infractions) to ensure that these rules, together with the other terms of use of the forum, are kept. The warning/infraction system, already in place and in infrequent use for some time, allows moderators to identify posts that do not follow the rules of the forum, and assign it an infraction. Infractions incur points, depending on the nature of the breech of rules, which accumulate in a member account. Multiple infraction points may result in an account being switched to moderated mode, or in more serious instances have access restricted. You can read further details on the system (http://www.monachos.net/forum/faq.php?faq=vb_board_usage#faq_faq_infractions).
* * * *
It is our intention that these slight shifts in policy, together with the full Terms of Use of the forum, will enable us to bring the Discussion Community back to its proper orientation. We realise that some will take exception to them; however, the time has come to reign-in the blurred focus of past months and return to the Discussion Community to the type and scope of forum it was created to be.
If you have any questions about the contents of this letter, please do not hesitate to contact any of us as Community moderators through the Private Messaging system in the forum (the moderators’ usernames, for the purposes of addressing PMs, are: ‘M.C. Steenberg’; ‘Fr Raphael Vereshack’; and ‘Father David Moser’).
With best wishes, in Christ,
M.C. STEENBERG - FR DAVID MOSER - FR RAPHAEL VERESHACK
Moderators of the Monachos.net Discussion Community