Frequency of attending Church

[Alexei B.]

I'm an Orthodox college student and (thankfully) live very close to a Russian Orthodox church, but I've never attended church by myself -- only with people who knew what they were doing.

I guess my main questions are:

When should I go to church? Every Sunday?
When is it acceptable to leave a service? (Our church doesn't open its main doors because of the homeless population, and instead uses a side door in the middle of the room -- so I can't exactly sneak out whenever I want.)
How long do services usually last?
Is there anything else I should know?

[Father David Moser]

When should I go to church? Every Sunday?

As often as possible - certainly every Sunday (and for Vigil on Sat evening as well) and any other time there are services. You should especially make the effort to attend on Great Feasts and on major saints' days.


When is it acceptable to leave a service?

You should arrive ontime for the beginning and stay through the end. One should not arrive late and/or leave early.


How long do services usually last?

Which services? Saturday evening vigil is usually around 2-2.5 hours give or take. Sunday morning liturgy is usually about 1.5 hours plus another 20 min for hours before liturgy. Weekday services can vary. Ask the priest where you will be attending as he will have the best idea.


Is there anything else I should know?

Get involved! Sing in the choir, chant on the kliros, serve in the altar, ask the priest and starosta what you can do. You will get much more out of the services if you are participating to the fullest extent possible.

Fr David Moser

[Alexei B.]

Thank you for your answers, Father.


You should arrive ontime for the beginning and stay through the end. One should not arrive late and/or leave early.
I understand this, but there may be times when I'm unable to stay for the entire service. When is it absolutely unacceptable to leave the church?

Also, don't some services continue even after the "official" service has ended? (I'm afraid I don't know the specifics, so please correct me if I'm wrong.) How do I know when the main liturgy is over?

[Father David Moser]

I understand this, but there may be times when I'm unable to stay for the entire service. When is it absolutely unacceptable to leave the church?

Explain your situation to the priest of the parish where you will be attending and ask him to help you figure out when the appropriate times to "sneak out" would be. But still one should develop the habit of coming at the beginning and staying through to the end. Since you are now in the process of establishing the habits that will guide you for the rest of your life, now is the time to be really diligent about establishing good habits of Church attendance.


Also, don't some services continue even after the "official" service has ended? (I'm afraid I don't know the specifics, so please correct me if I'm wrong.) How do I know when the main liturgy is over?

The Divine Liturgy is over after you come up and kiss the cross. Sometimes on a special feast, there may be a molieben served immediately following the liturgy - you should try to stay for that if at all possible. Finally, if you have received the Holy Mysteries that day, do not leave until after you have listened to the Thanksgiving prayers that are read afterward. Again, if there is difficulty or conflict with this talk to your parish priest/confessor to see what he instructs you to do.


Fr David Moser

[Owen Jones]

I think it's important to interject that, while proper comportment in Church is important, it's not for the purpose of pleasing anyone. We are there to please God, and even then, when we try to please God, it should be for the right reasons. Attending Church regularly is not a bribe! God cannot be bribed with sacrifices.

It can be a struggle to adapt to Orthodox worship, which is so foreign to our consumerist, fast food type of religion practiced for the most part in America. Most Orthodox people today understand that, and they are very forgiving and accepting of newcomers to the Church.

It will be very unlikely that your behavior will be monitored or challenged, unless you are extremely disruptive in some sort of bizarre fashion.

Bottom line, no one knows what is in your heart except God. We don't even really know what is in our own hearts most of the time. So there will be no inquisition. Attending monastic services, however, can be quite another matter. Some are very, very strict in terms of proper observance by visitors, but especially non-Orthodox.

Introducing yourself to the priest sounds like the best policy to me. But why focus on the externals, which it seems to me is what you are doing. The primary point of visiting with the priest is not to ask him how to properly conduct yourself in services, but how to properly engage your heart in the true worship of God. Ask him that question, "Dear Father, how do I properly engage my heart in the true worship of God?" After he falls on the floor and picks himself up, then you will be getting somewhere! If nothing else, you will have made a friend for life.

BTW, in the Greek churches I have attended in recent years, it is customary for much if not most of the faithful to arrive sometime around the Nicene Creed, expecting to receive communion. Orthros, in a parish of, say, two hundred, might be attended by five or six. All you have to do is attend Orthros in a Greek Church, and the priest is going to immediately want to know, "who the heck is THAT GUY???" Don't worry, he'll introduce himself to you pretty quick. The theology of the Church's worship by the way is contained in the Orthros and Vesperal services, for the day, week, season, etc.

[Effie Ganatsios]

The information on this link is very useful.

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/beautyofthyhouse.aspx

Effie

[Darinka Mamula]

Dear Alexei,
You may find the OCF a good source of fellowship and support while you are in college. Here is their website:

http://www.ocf.net/

Perhaps there is a chapter at your school? Maybe you could start one? The OCA parish near me (Elevation of the Holy Cross) is very involved with the OCF at the University of California at Davis. There are regular meetings and pot luck get-togethers, etc.

May God be with you.

[Alexei B.]

Thank you all for your kind advice!

Fr. Moser: I hope I didn't come off as overly casual with my questions. I wrote them as I did not because I'm approaching worship haphazardly, but because I'm a sucker for details. (Perhaps I shouldn't have used "sneak out"... I certainly don't intend to leave the service at my discretion!)

Owen: thank you for your insight! Unfortunately, I'm an extremely shy person, so meeting the priest face-to-face for the first time would, in all likelihood, prove disastrous. Perhaps I'll try e-mailing him, or even attend Orthros as you suggest.

Effie: thank you for the link! It has answers to many of my questions.

Darinka: my college does indeed have an OCF chapter, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to meet and converse with fellow Orthodox Christians. Maybe next year!


A slightly more worldly question: does anyone have any advice on, er, standing? I get extremely tired after standing in place for more than half an hour, which makes attending church a very unsettling and painful experience.

[Nina]

Owen: thank you for your insight! Unfortunately, I'm an extremely shy person, so meeting the priest face-to-face for the first time would, in all likelihood, prove disastrous. Perhaps I'll try e-mailing him, or even attend Orthros as you suggest.

Darinka: my college does indeed have an OCF chapter, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to meet and converse with fellow Orthodox Christians. Maybe next year!

Dear Alexei,

Not that it is my place to advise you, but take this like from your sister: please try not to be shy (at least not extremely as you mention). When you are at church, or with other Orthodox Christians think that we all are children of God and there is no reason to feel shy. We all have our sins, deficiencies, faults, mistakes etc. Think about the potential you have as a 'son of Light' as the Apostle says. Think about Christ and His love for all of us. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ.



A slightly more worldly question: does anyone have any advice on, er, standing? I get extremely tired after standing in place for more than half an hour, which makes attending church a very unsettling and painful experience.

I have no idea about what you ask, however if it makes you feel better think about the females who wear heels and have to stand at church - even if 1-inch, a heeled shoe is a heeled shoe (not that someone else inflicted that to us). Add to that sometimes a crying baby, females, who are mothers have to soothe and hold and how they try to concentrate in the Liturgy and prayer and stand.

[Herman Blaydoe]

The Patriarch of Antioch, visiting Russia a couple of centuries ago, made a comment about "iron-legged Russians" because the services were generally longer than he was used to and the Russians stood throughout. Obviously this represented a different practice than he was used to. In many parishes, it is generally OK to sit during the litanies (the "Lord have mercy" prayers), the reading of the Epistle, and the sermon. If you have a medical problem or weak legs, and simply have to sit, you probably try to make an effort to stand for the Lord's prayer, the Gospel, and any time the priest comes out from the altar to give a blessing, as well as the Little Entrance with the Gospel book, and certainly during the Great Entrance with the Holy Gifts if you are able.

[Owen Jones]

Except that in a Russian Church there is no place to sit, except on the floor!

[Father David Moser]

Except that in a Russian Church there is no place to sit, except on the floor!

All Russian Churches that I have ever been in have benches or chairs set around the sides for those who need to sit. True there are not rows of pews and true it is not generally expected that everyone will sit at the same time - but there are indeed places for those who need to sit.

Fr David Moser

[Maria Murray]

Dear Alexei,
Perhaps I can relate to some of your shy feelings, especially when they are mixed with my lack of knowledge of many things in the church... I always feel like I'm doing something wrong, but I try to think of it as beneficial for developing humility. In regards to standing, when we were attending the Liturgy in Russia and my 7-yr old told me he couldn't stand anymore, I asked him to take a look at the dozens of very old ladies who have already been standing there for hours. After that, he never complained again. I obviously don't know your personal situation or the reasons it may be hard for you to stand because I am fortunate to enjoy the standing. I felt so unworthy after my recent confession that even standing in the house of God felt like an unmerited luxury.
It's wonderful that despite your challenges you are seeking God in His Church.
Maria

[Nina]

Dear Alexei,
Perhaps I can relate to some of your shy feelings, especially when they are mixed with my lack of knowledge of many things in the church... I always feel like I'm doing something wrong,

Dear Maria,

:) From your last sentence above you seem so considerate of church and people there and it is so nice to hear that. Since you think in this way, I can not imagine you are doing something wrong in the church. In contrary. :)

And of course being shy in a moderate way is not wrong at all. Actually Saint Kosmas Aetolos (whose feastday we celebrate at the end of August) has said that being shy (and blushing) is an adornment and virtue for females.


but I try to think of it as beneficial for developing humility. This is a good way to look at it also. And I would add meekness as well.

[Maria Murray]

Nina, meekness is the word I was looking for.

[Nina]

Nina, meekness is the word I was looking for.

Dear Maria,

I happened to be here and read the original content and tried to quote and reply to it but it was gone :). In any case I would like to mention the words Mother Olympiada, the Abbess of the Holy Protection convent in PA said to a Persbytera/Matushka (as told to me by my extremely close friend). This Presbytera had I think 5 sons and was mentioning the same concerns you expressed here and the Abbess replied: "By tying the shoelaces of your children, you are praying to God." Also add here that caring and tending to your children is obedience to God, Who gave them and the obligation to you as a parent to care and raise them properly. Also talk to your spiritual father about your concerns.

P.S Meekness goes along hand in hand with humility. Fathers say 'be meek and humble like our Christ on the Cross' - it makes me tear because I am not.

[Olga]

One way of managing to stand for a long time is to move around from time to time (without disrupting the service, of course), and not stand stock-still which can be very tiring.

In the church I attend, the opportunity to move comes when I attend to the candle stands nearest to me, taking a couple of steps, pulling out the short stubs before they burn completely below the level of the metal holder, and putting them in the box next to the stand. I might do this three or four times during a two and a half-hour vigil, or perhaps two to three times during liturgy, and it makes all the difference to my endurance.

Standing with feet slightly apart so that your centre of gravity is balanced also helps.

I also second Maria's observation: In the early days, I, too, was often ready to crumble after a couple of hours at a Resurrection service, but the sight of all the "iron-legged" babushki standing hour after hour shamed me into thinking "I have no right to complain..." Truly indomitable people.

[Paul Cowan]

It was Pascha 2004 and it was already 2 hours into the service when Leah tugged at my sleeve to sit down. I never sit down. But I then noticed I was the only one standing and I was in the front row. I did not notice since everyone else was behind me. All 200+ of them.

My pride said 'let them sit, I can make an example for them'. Then I remembered not to make a spectacle of yourself in front of others. SO I sat down. As soon as the priest came out to cense again, I was back on my feet as was everyone else.

Moral of the story? Do what others around you are doing. And don't embarass your wife.

Later people came up to me and said "You were the guy standing weren't you?" I said yes very sheepishly and tried to find a hole to crawl into. Humility is the cure of pride. But humiliation is the result of it.

Paul

[Alexei B.]

Thank you all for your kind replies!