Orthodox community support for the dying and their families?

[Paul]

Is there any writings by Saints, that address dying from a disease.

The comfort we can offer to people in ourselves, whether Orthodox or not.

The role of the Orthodox Church to those who are Orthodox and maybe not?

I suppose I'm looking for what can the Orthodox Church offer to maybe teach Hospices, help people who are dying, and help their families, to maybe all grow in a deeper love.

Dying from cancer is something I'm investigating and know a bit about first hand.

I think my Grandmother would have died 18 months earlier had she continued with the chemotherapy she was on.

The hospice gave us the confidence to refuse it for a while, she needed it again later, but at the time she first recieved it, I think it may have been killing her.

I don't understand it all, she may have needed it, but it's thought through the experience she needed a break.

I've watched a documentary on children with cancer.
One little girl had had all the treatment she could and was dying.
But they tried a desperate last attempt at more chemotherapy to extend her life, she died 12 hours later.

The father thought he did right at first, and he was thinking of his daughter, but later regretted it.
The hospice nurse in the programme, said it wouldn't have harmed her physically, but maybe emotionally.
Her mother said how she was frightened to go to the hospital.

I think we need a lot of advice and help at such times, doctors, hospices, none of us seem to have all the answers.
I just like to know what Orthodoxy can offer?

If it's anyone doing the roles of Saints, it seems to be the Hospice nurses, I know they are not Saints.
But they seem to fill that role, where there is no one else in many places.

There may be some Church run hospices in some areas, maybe nuns who work in some.
But in many areas there are not.

I know some of the hospice nurses were Christian.
I don't think they were Orthodox though, as there isn't any Orthodox Churches in my area.

What can Orthodoxy offer more maybe spiritually to help.
What inspirational stories that could help us in such situations?

What could I learn from Orthodoxy to maybe help others in these situations who maybe are not Orthodox or even Christian or religious at all?

Thanks.
Paul

[Herman Blaydoe]

A good friend of mine, Matthew Binkewicz, is an Orthodox Christian and experienced hospice counselor. He has written articles and books about end-of-life issues and dealing with terminal illness. He has a website at: http://www.matthewpbinkewicz.com/

[Nina]

Dying from cancer is something I'm investigating and know a bit about first hand.

I think my Grandmother would have died 18 months earlier had she continued with the chemotherapy she was on.

The hospice gave us the confidence to refuse it for a while, she needed it again later, but at the time she first recieved it, I think it may have been killing her.
I don't understand it all, she may have needed it, but it's thought through the experience she needed a break.

Dear Paul,

As you know my mother also suffered and passed away from cancer. Not all cases are similar. Some may need a break from chemotherapy, some not. I studied so much about my mother's illness and talked with so many friends physicians for 3 years and 3 months that now I can have a PHD in the type of cancer she suffered from. However from some comparative research (while trying to figure out ways to help my mother) that I did I found out that not all cases are the same. Cancer as a whole is very unpredictable and very diverse. What you did in the case of your grandmother was good since you followed what the professionals advised you to.


I think we need a lot of advice and help at such times, doctors, hospices, none of us seem to have all the answers.
I just like to know what Orthodoxy can offer?

From my own experience I can tell that God gives us strength. It is almost a year now after my mother passed away and looking back I can not count all the blessings that God provides for the sick and dying person and the family. On a human level friends and family are an amazing pillar during such times. Also the nurses, physicians are a source of strength with all the guidance and the counsel they provide. My mother was also blessed to have a spiritual father who along with the community at her church (Orthodox) were a real blessing.



What could I learn from Orthodoxy to maybe help others in these situations who maybe are not Orthodox or even Christian or religious at all?

This is a complex issue and I am not an expert at all. However I can say that Orthodoxy is an immense help in such cases because Orthodoxy prepares people for the next life which comes through dying. Orthodox Fathers write about death and how death is in front of their eyes every moment, which encourages them to fight even more for their salvation and other people's salvation.

I can tell you that during the last 15 days of my mother's earthly life, when I was not doing something (although we were extremely busy) I was crawling in the bed where my mother was and I was reading some Orthodox books about death, dying etc. These books helped me very much and they helped my mother also. Another thing that the spiritual father advised to me was to read to my mother Psalms which are talking about suffering, need for God, prayer, supplication to God etc. It was very hard to go through all the suffering, however I thought of Christ and looked at Him on the Cross above the bed of my mother and I was asking myself "how could He endure when He was a pure Man and our God? How could His mother endure? I need to endure too because this is what God gave us and I need to obey. I need to be strong so I can help my mother also." We have the pattern: Christ on the Cross, His Mother standing by stoically - They are an immense source of strength. I do not know what to tell you about the people who do not believe. Maybe they are strong. But I know that without my God I could and can do nothing.

Maybe I am forgetting something... please feel free to ask if you have more questions.

[Paul]

Thanks for that Herman.

You said he has written books, I can only find the one titled 'Peaceful Journey'

Have you read this book or any of his others?

Does this book speak of real people and experiences, and do you know if they or their families have an input in the book.

Dear Nina,

I suppose I lacked not having any spiritual father or support in that way.
We did have one who visited from my Grandmothers Baptist Church.
None of the family only her went to Church, me, my mother and my sister had stopped going, maybe 18 years ago.

The one who visited, there was only the asking how things were, and talking a bit to my Grandmother when she was responding.
She did go to Church when she was able.

The sort of Pastor and a couple of her friends did come to visit closer to the end, but there was not the support there, and maybe spirituality, which I would have liked.

I don't think my family would have liked it though.
There was family in and out who were are not religious, or are uncomfortable with it.

It grieves me that I wasn't capable of comforting her more in that way.

I may have been some comfort to her when she was concious, but when she reached thoughs last days.
I didn't know what I was suppose to do.
The family were there who tried to communicate with her.
And she did recognize us and respond at times.

But I suppose now looking back, I would have liked to have done a lot more, but I don't even know how.

It maybe would have helped if most of my family were of one Church, and we had a spiritual father and church community whom we all knew.

The one who sort of started the Hospice read to the Psalms to her once.
For some reason I wasn't even able to do that.

What were the Orthodox books you read about death and dying, and do you think they may be any help to me?

We've never been a family who've read to each other though.
Not that I remember, I know my mother read stories to us when we were little.

I read somewhere lately on comforting the dying, to watch T.V. with them or read to them.
Reading that I thought I wish I had read to her when she was concious.

It would have been nice then, and then after maybe I would have continued.

I been reading the 'the way of a pilgrim lately, and there's a few occassions there where they are reading to each other.

I've also lately been trying to read passages which I find inspiring out loud and record them.
I found though I was unable to read out loud talking to no one at first.
I have lately managed it once, I did sort of stammer a bit though.

Thanks for your replies.
Paul

[Herman Blaydoe]

You can actually read excerpts from the book Peaceful Journey (http://www.matthewpbinkewicz.com/p1.shtml) and see for yourself how he approaches the topic. While he certainly brings an Orthodox basis to what he writes, it is written for a wider audience and he certainly has dealt with providing hospice services for non-Orthodox as well. I do think he touches on many of the questions you have.

Your servant,
Herman

[Andreas Moran]

As I think regulars here know, my first wife died of cancer nearly seven years ago. It was a mystical experience for us, but the key spiritual factor in dealing with this situation is acceptance, by the patient and her family, but crucially by the patient because it is the patient who can then give strength to others. I wrote an account of my wife's illness and death which includes quite a few references to writings of the fathers. If anyone is interested, I can email it (if I'm also told how to attach a word document to a message on this site!). Also, Nina is right - no two cases are the same, in any way.

[Nina]

Dear Nina,

I suppose I lacked not having any spiritual father or support in that way.
We did have one who visited from my Grandmothers Baptist Church.
None of the family only her went to Church, me, my mother and my sister had stopped going, maybe 18 years ago.

The one who visited, there was only the asking how things were, and talking a bit to my Grandmother when she was responding.
She did go to Church when she was able.

The sort of Pastor and a couple of her friends did come to visit closer to the end, but there was not the support there, and maybe spirituality, which I would have liked.

I don't think my family would have liked it though.
There was family in and out who were are not religious, or are uncomfortable with it.

It grieves me that I wasn't capable of comforting her more in that way.

I may have been some comfort to her when she was concious, but when she reached thoughs last days.
I didn't know what I was suppose to do.
The family were there who tried to communicate with her.
And she did recognize us and respond at times.

But I suppose now looking back, I would have liked to have done a lot more, but I don't even know how.

It maybe would have helped if most of my family were of one Church, and we had a spiritual father and church community whom we all knew.

The one who sort of started the Hospice read to the Psalms to her once.
For some reason I wasn't even able to do that.

What were the Orthodox books you read about death and dying, and do you think they may be any help to me?

We've never been a family who've read to each other though.
Not that I remember, I know my mother read stories to us when we were little.

I read somewhere lately on comforting the dying, to watch T.V. with them or read to them.
Reading that I thought I wish I had read to her when she was concious.

It would have been nice then, and then after maybe I would have continued.

I been reading the 'the way of a pilgrim lately, and there's a few occassions there where they are reading to each other.

I've also lately been trying to read passages which I find inspiring out loud and record them.
I found though I was unable to read out loud talking to no one at first.
I have lately managed it once, I did sort of stammer a bit though.

Thanks for your replies.
Paul

Dear Paul,

I think your immense love has helped and rewarded your grandmother not only during her life, but also during her suffering and passing away. I am sorry I was saying what I told you in my previous post here, because I did not know you were asking about your grandmother since she has passed away... I replied with my experience in case you needed to help other people as you mentioned. And not that I can speak on behalf of Orthodoxy, but to share with you what helped me from Orthodoxy and what support was there in general.

There are many difficult moments when a person is passing away and it was so heavy burden... but it becomes a bit easier with the help we received. The spiritual father of my mother is a monk from Mount Athos and he was not constantly near by, but God turned the events so he would be there for all the crucial moments of my mother's life, passing and memorial services. Thank God!!! He told me to read the Psalms (when she was mostly unconscious) to my mother and I in my ignorance said "but Father do you think she understands?!" And he smiled with a-not-of-this-world-smile that makes me cry even now and while nodding told me: "the soul knows, the soul knows - it is for the soul!" And since it is for the soul dear Paul maybe you can read the psalms now and dedicate a psalm when you read it as a prayer for the soul of your grandmother - I do not know from these things though, this is a positive way of dealing with it maybe afterwards... like there is always this thing you hear from Orthodox Holy Fathers, grandmothers etc. that when you give money to the beggar you say: "Please God count this good deed for the soul of... [and you say the name and relationship of the deceased person to you]!" or as they do in the church when they donate something in memory of a loved one who has departed.

When my mother was passing away I was reading alternating between:

After Death by Archim. Vasilios Bakogiannis (Tertios Publications)

Life after Death by Metropolitan of Nafpaktos Hierotheos

The Mystery of Death by Nikolaos P. Vassiliadis

For the Hours of pain by The Very Rev. Archimandrite + Seraphim Papakostas

I was also reading passages from lives of Saints and the book about the Saint Arsenions of Cappadocia written by Elder Paisios and the book about Saint Kosmas Aetolos (which is also available on line for free). I remember also reading the life of Saint Leonard which is beautiful and some other things. And to clarify something I was not reading those books to my mother (although I would tell her a passage from a book now and then), I only read to her the Psalms as her spiritual father guided me. But those spiritual books that I read, helped my mother through me.

After my mother passed away I continued reading a couple of them but I changed to other books from the Fathers... maybe because I was too sensitive. I do not know how you feel but since you loved your grandmother so much (like I did love my mother) maybe it is better to let yourself heal a bit and not read books about death... I think the book that you are reading "The way of a Pilgrim" is excellent. Lives of Saints and their works teach you about death but in a tangent way because right now we are still wounded from the loss of our loved mother and grandmother. Give yourself time to heal and read other Orthodox books.

Also another thing that the spiritual father of my mother told me is: "Through the pain of cancer and the suffering, God purified your mother's soul and made it ready for Paradise." Also an Orthodox Elder has said that "since cancer started, the doors of Paradise are wide open." (sorry I do not remember who the Elder is - Elder Paisios maybe?)

So do not grieve for the soul of your grandmother. Leave everything in the Hands of God. Our sweet Christ is merciful and knows better than us. Do not regret what happened, or what did not when she was passing away because people, countries, circumstances are different. Think about your grandmother with love and do not despair; try to do good deeds for her soul. Also a helpful thing is to look after your own soul. That may help many and also those that you love even if they are departed. Do you know the life of Saint Phanourios? He became a saint and asked people to pray for his mother. Because he is a saint and so beloved and many ask his intercessions, also his mother is prayed for from so many generations and races on earth.

[Nina]

As I think regulars here know, my first wife died of cancer nearly seven years ago. It was a mystical experience for us, but the key spiritual factor in dealing with this situation is acceptance, by the patient and her family, but crucially by the patient because it is the patient who can then give strength to others. I wrote an account of my wife's illness and death which includes quite a few references to writings of the fathers. If anyone is interested, I can email it (if I'm also told how to attach a word document to a message on this site!). Also, Nina is right - no two cases are the same, in any way.

Oh, what you have written dear Andreas, about your first wife is beautiful - up to the point where I read... I still have not found the strength to finish it... because I am still not completely recovered from loosing my mother and I am afraid to trigger some sensitiveness. But for those stronger than I, that life is beautiful.

[Paul]

Thanks Herman, I think it is a book I would like to read.

Andreas, I'd be interested in reading what you wrote, I don't know how to attach documents though.

Thanks for your kind words Nina.

I suppose I want to read not exactly about death alone, but maybe something that explains things, and offers the spiritual support I think we need in such situations and all through life.
I suppose I feel we lacked something in this situation, is it Orthodox spirituality?

Nina, you tell me your Church, your faith, maybe it's practices, teachings, explanations, support and advice helped you in this situation, and the Orthodox reading.
I maybe need to know what you had, and if that is what we maybe lacked.

Does Orthodoxy provide what is truly needed in this situation?

I am not Orthodox, is it what I need, my family needs, my Grandmother would have even benefited more from?

How can I know this?

No, I haven't heard of Saint Phanourios.

Thanks for your responses.
Paul

[Andreas Moran]

Dear Paul,

Nina will answer you very well herself, but I can tell you that Orthodoxy can provide everything so long you accept it. My late wife was baptised in a village in the Troodos mountains in Cyprus at the age of 53 just three years before her death. When Fr Zacharias saw the photos, he was in awe and said, 'only the Orthodox Church can do this'. She shone with grace. She grew very close to Christ, and when she died, Bishop Eireniaos explained, 'she was so close to God, that there was only one way to get closer, and that was to be with Him in Paradise'. We don't have to do anything extraordinary - just love God and accept His will.

[Nina]

Dear Paul,

As Andreas says Orthodoxy provides everything, we just need to open our hearts and welcome her: this yearning of yours is the call of your soul and God's. Do not dwell in the fact that your grandmother did not know Orthodoxy- because as you say there is no Orthodox church near you and because she has departed, that is completely in the hands of God now,- but rejoice and be happy that God has brought you here on monachos to learn about Orthodoxy and thank God about the interest you have in Orthodoxy. Do not have doubts also in the good deeds you can do for the soul of your grandmother. In Orthodoxy we believe that "[t]he attitude toward our deceased brothers pleasing to God is the attitude of constant prayer and fervent petition to Christ the Lord. It is the exercise of works of love, the offering of charity for their souls". (p.438) In the same book we read also that we should not wait until after our death so others can pray and offer things for the benefit of our souls because "it is better to care for our immortal soul from now that we are still alive and have at our disposal all the means of our holy Church for confession and repentance, so that we may 'vomit the bitter sin'." (p. 439)

* Quotes from The Mystery of Death by Nikolaos P. Vassiliadis

[Nina]

Is there any writings by Saints, that address dying from a disease.
Thanks.
Paul

Dear Paul,

Here is some additional information:


The other two members of this small trinity are fasting and giving alms. In traditionally Orthodox countries, it is very common to encounter someone who either makes an offering to a church or to a person in need, even someone unknown on the street, saying “Please accept this; my husband/mother/sister/son, is ill/in need of God’s mercy.” Interestingly, the answer from the recipient is not “thank you”, but rather, “May God receive.” This is very definitely a part of prayer to God to have mercy on the loved one. That offering is a sacrifice and is the second part of the “ALL I can do is pray.” From All I can do is pray. (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/theveil_allicandoispray.aspx)



I thank God for granting me many illnesses. [1] I often say to Him: ‘My Christ, Your love knows no limits!’ How I am alive is a miracle. Among all my other illnesses I also have cancer of the pituitary gland. A tumour appeared there which has grown and presses against the optic nerve. That’s why I don’t see any more. I am in dreadful pain. But I pray, taking up the Cross of Christ with patience. Have you seen what my tongue is like? It has grown; it’s not as it used to be. That’s also a result of the cancer I’ve got in my head. And as time goes on, things will get worse. It will grow even more and I’ll have difficulty in speaking. I’m in great pain, but my illness is something very beautiful. I feel it as the love of Christ. I am given compunction and I give thanks to God. It is on account of my sins. I am sinful and God is trying to purify me. From On Illness (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/elderporphyrios_illness.aspx) by Elder Porphyrios' book 'Wounded by Love'


Illness in the Family Church

When the sickness of a member of the family church entails his or her absence from Divine Liturgy, this should impel the family members who do attend the service to bring home antidoron (blessed bread) for him or her. Antidoron is not a substitute for Holy Communion, but is for those who, for one reason or another, are unable to receive the Eucharist. Those ill at home benefit spiritually and physically from this link with the healing Church of Christ.
During times of illness, Orthodox Christians do not put their faith entirely in medicines, medical personnel or home remedies as the answer and cure for their physical or mental illness. Holy water and blessed oil are used freely as some of God's gifts to help us at these times. Prayers said by the infirm and other family members are extremely important during illnesses within the family church.
The priest should be called during illnesses so that he may pray for the infirm, offer spiritual advice and bring the Mysteries of Holy Confession, Holy Communion and Holy Unction. The idea that a priest should be called only when someone is in danger of death is not an Orthodox idea but comes from the western churches and is contrary to Holy Scripture. The priest does not come to prepare a person for the grave but he comes to bring spiritual life. Holy Unction is a service for the spiritual and physical health of an individual, not a preparation for death and burial (Jam. 5:14-15).
A priest coming to a sick member of the family to bring him spiritual and physical strength through the mysteries should be welcomed into the house which has been prepared for the visit. Radio and television should be turned off during the visit, so there are no distractions from the great blessings that God bestows through the operation of the Mysteries. Religious objects needed for the priest's visit should be out and in their places. This arrangement can be discussed with the priest at the time he is requested to make the visit.
During pregnancy an Orthodox woman should be particularly concerned with the spiritual aspect of her nature. The child lives within her for nine months and because the baby is part of her body, any spiritual gifts the mother receives also come to the unborn child. Frequent reception of Holy Communion and frequent prayer are highly desirable during this gestation period so that God's grace may envelope the mother and her child.
After the assurance of pregnancy or after the birth of the child, the parents may wish to have the priest offer a thanksgiving Molieben to God for His blessing them with a child. On the eighth day after birth the child is named according to the tradition of the Church. Although the hospital or civil authorities may desire the name sooner, on the eighth day, Orthodox parents should bring the child to the church and have him or her named in the Orthodox manner. This service of naming an eight-day old baby may be conducted in the home before the icon corner if weather conditions or the child's health make it impossible for the child to be brought to church.
The fortieth day after a woman gives birth, she comes to the church with her baby in order to be "churched." This is done in imitation of the Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary, who on the fortieth day after giving birth brought Christ to the Temple so she might be purified and present Christ to God (Lk. 2:22-38). From Marriage and the Christian Home (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/xc_home.aspx)

[Andreas Moran]

I suppose we all sometimes think we would like to know when we are going to do die. Terminal illness can give us this knowledge (give or take some weeks or months maybe), and so allows us to prepare ourselves for our meeting with the Lord. We pray that we do not suffer a sudden death. The illness puts everything into its proper perspective; the sick are able to lose attachments to the things of this world. We Orthodox have time to confess deeply and to take Holy Communion. Such illness lets us ensure that we shall have an abundant entrance into the everlasting kingdom (c.f. 2 Peter 1:11). I saw other patients (none of whom, of course, were Orthodox) in the cancer hospital in Sheffield where my wife died, and all of them were serene, so I believe the merciful Lord deals with each person as he or she is, for He wills all to be saved and to have this entrance into His Kingdom.

[Nina]

I saw other patients (none of whom, of course, were Orthodox) in the cancer hospital in Sheffield where my wife died, and all of them were serene, so I believe the merciful Lord deals with each person as he or she is, for He wills all to be saved and to have this entrance into His Kingdom.

Yes, you are right, that is why I also mentioned above what the Orthodox elder said: "Since cancer started, the doors of Heaven are wide open." Cancer is a very purifying illness... the pain, the struggle etc.

[Effie Ganatsios]

Although I have not experienced at first hand such a terrible experience as having a loved one with a long and painful disease, I have read that when a patient is surrounded by his/her family and is in familiar surroundings they are comforted.

My husband's auntie died of cancer a few years ago. She had flu symptons, had x-rays done and then fell into a coma, so her death was swift and absolutely painless. However, she was aware that she might die because it was the second time cancer had struck.

She was a widow and alone but so very full of life. She was a very religious person and arranged everything for her death, going so far as to provide all the immediate family members with black clothes and stockings!!!! She also had special texts marked in her bible that she wanted us to read during the night we had the wake. She had marked one for me as well. She wanted us to think about her with love and a lot of laughter she said as she was always a very positive person. She is an example to me of how we can face our own deaths.

Effie

[Katerina]

This is all defintely something that is so close to my heart. I myself lost my first husband to cancer, a two year ordeal, that purified and gave us something SO special that NO words can describe or explain! I felt tears as I read your posts, because it stirs up the intense love I have for our Lord and all the treasures He indeed gives us while we are on this earth, despite all the sufferings. I would not change anything that happened in my life, but I can say that being human, I sorely miss and think of my first husband every day, even though I have been blessed in marrying again, and it has been thirteen years ago the 14th of August. This in no way takes away from my present marriage, it actually enhances and has taught me more in ways of patience and humility. I digress...

The book that helped a lot is a very small pocket booklet called: "The Teaching of the Holy fathers On Illness". What a small treasure! The contents are such, to give you an idea:

I. The Origin and Cause of Pain

II. The Purpose of Illness

III. Illness and Prayer

IV. The Christian View of Medicine

V. Illness and the Work of Perfection

I do believe that I got this book from Light and Life Publishing. Their website is:
www.light-n-life.com (http://www.light-n-life.com)

Paul, as others have said, your grandmother has gotten the peace and the prayers and what she needed from Our Lord. He indeed always provides, and the Lord gave YOU the strength to provide for her what you could under the circumstances. I do so hope you find the answers to some of your questions and peace in your heart on this journey. May God bless you!

In IC XC,
Katerina

[Andreas Moran]

Dear Katerina,

Thank you for sharing that with us. This mixture of the wonder at how a loved one gains an entrance into paradise and at the same time missing her or him dreadfully is strange. My wife's cancer was mystical. From diagnosis to death was exactly nine months, like a gestation period before her birth into the true life. She had a deep devotion to Elder Sophrony, and the Epistle reading for the 40th day after her death was the passage that includes, 'We shall see him as he is'.

[Katerina]

Dear Katerina,

Thank you for sharing that with us. This mixture of the wonder at how a loved one gains an entrance into paradise and at the same time missing her or him dreadfully is strange. My wife's cancer was mystical. From diagnosis to death was exactly nine months, like a gestation period before her birth into the true life. She had a deep devotion to Elder Sophrony, and the Epistle reading for the 40th day after her death was the passage that includes, 'We shall see him as he is'.

What a journey that nine months must have been for both of you, I can just imagine. Quite what I feel, is that the day of my husband's death is indeed his "new" birthday. My husband had a deep devotion to the Theotokos, and Brother Jose Munoz came at the very beginning of his illness with the Myhrrstreaming Iveron Icon, and again, one week before he died, in the hospital- we had a very moving molieben in his hospital room with Her Icon there, and I remember Br. Jose saying how much the Mother of God loved him! Oh, my the memory is still so fresh in my mind, that I see him (+Eternal memory!) standing there with us, and how so very humble he always was...such comfort, and such a selfless man. I smell the wonderful Myhrr, and with cotton that was saturated, every evening before I left for home to my young kids, I prayed the evening prayers in his ear (my husband was on a respirator), and then blessed him with the myhrr. Nurses had a special bond with him, and took care of him with detail, and always knew when I arrived- his heart rate would slow down to more normal. They always wondered why it just felt so peaceful in his room, and there was a wonderful frangrance...

My soul is filled to overflowing, remembering the grace of God, feeling His love, and also at the same time, knowing I had to let my husband go. Immense pain of the heart, but amazing love, all at the same time. Do not know if I am making any sense here, but...

Katerina

[Nina]

Of course you are making more than sense Katerina! It is always moving to read such accounts and stories. May the memory of your husband be eternal! You moved me with the words you say.

About the Holy Myrrh... thank you for reminding me also this example which we can share with Paul.

We had myrrh from Saint Demetrios' church in Thessaloniki. It was almost 3 years since we had received it and the heavenly fragrance had not dissipated. It was as intense as it was at the moment we received it from the church. When my mother had reflecting pain in her body, always we placed it on the part of the body and there was some, or complete relief.

During her last days on earth she was in such excruciating pain and suffering because the cancer had metastasized all over the intestines... sometime I was placing the myrrh over the abdominal area and I was silently crying (without my mother understanding it, or seeing me cry) and trying to pray in the midst of my mother's pain...

What made things more difficult it was the guilt I felt for not doing more for my mother, who carried me and nourished me in the same abdomen, that it was now the source of her pain. I often had my radiologist friend call my name several times (I was not paying attention) when he was trying to explain the CT scans of my mother which were spread on the lit screens and which would leave me speechless and thinking over and over the questions: "This is the abdomen of my mother. She helped me come into this life. How can I not help her heal? Why can't I do better and more so she can heal? Why my God can I not help my mother? She did so wonderful with her role as a mother, why can't I help her?"

I guess most children and grandchildren would feel an associated guilt because our parents and grandparents sacrifice so much for us. And I understand you Paul perfectly because I loved my grandparents also more than much... so this love you have for your grandmother speaks to me a lot. And if my mother had been fine and alive, I would have been probably grieving for my grandparents now... but since they all lived many years here and enjoyed weddings of all their children and that of some of grandchildren; and saw, raised and enjoyed so many grandchildren and grand-grandchildren, it seems to me now that my mother, who left this life early is to be grieved for (she was only 49 when she was diagnosed and suffered for 3 years and 3 months)... that is why I do not mention my grandparents. But I totally understand your pain and I think that God helps those people who suffer from cancer, like He helps all His people and creatures.

Make the effort dear Paul and try to raise above the feeling of guilt that you could have done more for your grandmother, even if you are not conscious about it... I had moments like that also... and then I was more aware of my guilt and how I was not helping my mother - so even if I was in the Orthodoxy, I felt I was doing so little for my mother. This might sound so bad, but I blamed myself for not being a better person and a saint so I could help my mother through my prayers. I thought that since I was a sinner God did not listen to my plea and that is why mom suffered - because of me. All these were temptations because saints would not be praying and coercing God to do something.

So you can see that the love we have is something very positive, but can be a source for temptations also. I can not even describe to you and enumerate the foolish things I would have done to "save" my mother - the love, which became also a temptation, was blinding me.

We tell you, not to regret anything about your grandmother, because God knew and He provided for your grandmother as He did for my mother and all. God is merciful dear Paul. God is love.

I realized at some point that I did not love my mother more than God does; I also realized that my mother is of course my mother, but before everything she is the daughter of God, and if He willed her to depart, who was I to object? The moment I realized and I accepted these truths I asked forgiveness from God and I let her go...

I wake up sometimes from dreams where my mother is- (and since I think of her all the time, I also dream of her always) so I wake up with tears rolling down my face and sometime I feel her love so intensely and her voice so real, like she was really with me and alive at those moments. It is like in reality when she was alive but even more intense and beautiful - because it is from another world. I make an effort to wake up at those moments so as to remember her and enjoy awake these beautiful moments, although I shed tears because I miss her. After I get more used to the reality of being awake, I think of what can I do next for her soul and how to help her soul even more. And in my ignorance and the limited possibilities I have, I try to do my best. Afterwards, I feel peace because I think God will look favorably at the love of a daughter for a mother and take my feeble attempts and multiply them for her soul, wherever He willed her to be.

[Effie Ganatsios]

Reading your accounts of your experiences, could I ask something personal. I ask it with love. Has writing about this experience benefited you? I know that when we relive something, in words or writing we sometimes clarify aspects of it in our minds. The sincerity and love have been a gift for us, but what about you? I sense that writing about your experiences has also helped you. Am I right?

Just reading these accounts has made me feel so humble and in awe of what faith can do both for these leaving this life and for those who remain with their pain.

Katerina : "Nurses had a special bond with him, and took care of him with detail, and always knew when I arrived- his heart rate would slow down to more normal. They always wondered why it just felt so peaceful in his room, and there was a wonderful fragrance..."

"his heart rate would slow down to normal" - doesn't this tell us volumes of what love means and what effect it has on our physical bodies.

Thank you.

[Effie Ganatsios]

Leaves have their time to fall,
And flowers to wither at the north-wind's breath,
And stars to set; but all,
Thou hast all seasons for thine own, O Death!
John Milton, The Hour of Death


Do not stand on my grave and weep;
I am not there. I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glints on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn's rain.
When you awaken in the morning's hush,
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in the circled flight.
I am the soft stars that shine at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry;
I am not there. I did not die.
- Anonymous


Hope I'm not being presumptuous, but I just wanted to share the above.

Effie

[Andreas Moran]

Milton also wrote a fourteen-line poem called, 'On his deceased wife' which I find more moving than any amount of 'Paradise Lost'. Here is part of it:

'Methought I saw my late espoused saint
Brought to me like Alcestis from the grave,
. . .
Came vested all in white, pure as her mind:
Her face was veiled, yet to my fancied sight
Love, sweetness, goodness, in her person shined
So clear, as in no face with more delight.
But oh! as to embrace me she inclined,
I waked, she fled, and day brought back my night.'

[Andreas Moran]

Dear Effie,

If I may answer your question, yes, I did find it helpful to write about my wife's illness and death later in the year after she died. It was, I think, a way of facing what had happened rather like the very wise Orthodox tradition of the open casket - we do not hide what has happened. My wife's funeral was in St Silouan's church at the monastery of St John the Baptist here in Essex. All our Orthodox friends, as well as the members of the monastery, went to the casket to say 'goodbye', but none of her family were able to do so.

[Paul]

I thought on prayer for my Gran.
And I couldn't, it just didn't feel right.
I thought I don't doubt she is going to be with the Lord, I don't doubt her salvation, so how can I pray, it felt like doubting her, doubting God's mercy even.

But then I thought on of muself, if I died, would I want my loved ones prayers, would I think I need them.
I think I would need prayers in a way, and not that I doubt God's mercy, but because of my sinfulness.
But I think prayer also keeps the love alive.
If I'm praying for my Gran, I love her.
It's not that I doubt her as sinful, for we all are, that is truth.
I know what a good woman she was.
I know some of her faults.
But I loved her, so how much more does God.

She was so special to me, but how much more special she must be to God.
I can't doubt that God will do right, I don't doubt my Gran.
So why do I pray for her?

If I died I am very sinful, and need prayer.
I suppose my Gran would feel the same, even though as a Baptist I don't think she believed as Orthodox do.

Could you possibly tell me a little more about praying for the dead, and a maybe a prayer used?

Nina, you speak of my love for my Grandmother.
I look over my life, and find, much in my past life, I have neglected love and failed to grow in it.

I've lived with my Grandmother for the past maybe about 8 years.
My mother had kicked me out, because I often got into trouble with the police and she had warned me and I did again.
It wasn't just trouble with the police, I had been to prison very young, think I was about seventeen, I was in the young offenders part of the prison, and was so lucky not to have had done a proper sentence.
I did 2 weeks remand, went back to court, they made me wait another two weeks in prison, and which time I had a bit of time to reflect.
I think first time I thought I would be released after the 2 weeks, but then when I was put back in prison, it made me think.

I was in my cell on my own one night, and reflected over things, and wrote a letter to my mother, saying how sorry I was.
I didn't know, and probably as she said I wouldn't have liked it, but she gave the letter to my solicitor, who was expecting me to have a sentence, he gave the letter to the magistrate.
And I was released.
My mother thinks the letter may have swayed it.

I didn't learn my lesson though.
But I don't think I would have handled prison for a long time.
Although i tired to act tough, I was a very weak, scared person inside really.
Although sometimes I would get to a stage where I just didn't care about anything.

I had for many years drank a lot, even many of the years living with my Gran.
I know she must have prayed for me and my sister, my mother also.

Something diffenetily happened to me, very gradual, but something did change about me gradually living with my Gran.

Things happened, I tried to stop drinking so much of spirits.
I use to drink a whole bottle of vodka at one time going out, before going in the pubs, which I use to be banned from quite a few at one time for being too drunk.

I still got very drunk though just drinking larger and sometimes I'd have some shorts from the bar.

I stopped even going out so much, I had started to bother with just one friend mostly, I had use to bother with a gang.
They wasn't a gang as a criminal gang, but just a group of friends.

I always spent all my money on drink.
But stopping going out so much aI managed to save.
I had bought a palysation for something to do.
Played and bought video games.

I started to read to Bible, think on things and pray.

I later sold my playsation bought a computer, stopped playing video games.
Still went our ocasionally and got very drunk.

Starting having respect for my body, tried to give up smoking, starting playing squash.

Gradually stopped going out altogether and gave up smoking, also stopped playing squash later.

A lot of the time I had spent in my bedroom, and didn't bother that much with my Gran.

But I later did more.
We grew much closer, I grew as a person.
I use to spend more time with her, and go in the bedroom to use the computer.
And when she got ill, I didn't even like to go into the bedroom to use the computer at all, to leave her on her own for even half an hour.

So I got a laptop, so I could stay in the same room as her, and still use the computer.

I later looked after her full time at home.

There's many things I regret, and that I didn't even grow more in love.
But I truly greatful to God that I did grow, and was there to love my Gran.

I've read some of the articles and thought on things.
I don't think my Gran prayed for her illness.
But she may have certainly prayed for me and my sister.
Maybe she prayed that she could do something to help me, maybe she gave herself to do whatever it took.
And maybe this illness did help me greatly grow in love.

I think it had mutilple purposes in all our lives.

Thank you for the links to the articles, Nina.
I have read the first two.
I am hoping to read the other one today.
I did have a question on one, but will come back to that again.

Thank you all for your replies.
It is nice to be able to talk about this in a deep, and peaceful way.

I feel a little ahsamed though, writing about what tyoe of person I was, when you all seem very loving and close to you families.
I had been taught many morals of what was right and wrong being brough up in even Pentecostal and later a Baptist Church for a short while.

I chose to disobey and do things wrong.
I think for acceptence of people.
For I was picked on for being the type of person I was, I think going to Church and being shy.
I later got into trouble, tried to become like the ones who picked on me, and be accepted by them, which ruined me.
I sort of found a solution to being picked on, but did it ruin my life.

I'm sort of glad though I never stayed Pentecostal.
And although I think the Baptist Church my Gran went to did her much good.
And although I wouldn't mind being good friends with them, I still seek something more.

I have thought a lot on bullying and my own life.
How Christ was mocked and spat on, and stood up even against thoughs who had profaned the Temple.
How weak we are, how children suffer, how we develope, maybe because they way the world is and we have no spirituality.
I'd be interested what the Fathers have to say on such things.
If there's a thread already on it, or an Orthodox article online

Thanks again.
Please pray for me.

I say this, and don't quite grasp it.

I beleive my Grans prayers may have helped me.

But I think why does God need our prayers to be merciful?

But then think, my Gran had God's love in her, that is maybe what's in prayer.
But why is it answered by what seems like our actions?

Is it that He uses love.
That His love works through us in prayer.
And sometimes if it's beneficial to the one whom we pray for for their growth in love, then all things are accomplished in love.
For it can be the same even with our physical actions isn't it?
As God love may work through us, maybe because although we have prayed and submitted to Him.
But when we love others, it may and maybe accompanied with prayer help them to experience the love from us to them, and maybe help them grow in it.

I don't know, just my wandering mind.

What is meant by 'where two or three are gathered in my name, there are my amidst them'?
I think that's what is said in Scripture.

Is this just prayer, or love where it is felt between two or more people, or something more?

[Andreas Moran]

Dear Paul,

I find great depth of meaning in what you say. Few are brave enough to confess openly as you have done. In your questions are the answers: prayer is not about asking for things. Prayer is how we say to God and to those we love, 'I love you'. Your Gran prays for you and you pray for her because of the love between you both. Love is stronger than death. A husband and wife know they love each other, but they still say to each other often, 'I love you'. Prayer is like that. It keeps the light under the love.

In Christ,

Andreas.

[Katerina]

Dearest Paul,the suffering you have endured to get to where you are! Believe it or not, suffering and struggling is a blessing brought on by God, and through this we learn and yearn for sometimes what we yet do not know- the love of God and His mercy. Your grandmother's patience in her suffering helped to bring you to a different understanding of life, brought you slowly out of the struggle you've had, and believe me, your grandmother is rejoicing! Love is boundless and it reaches beyond this world. Yes, keep praying for her. She does for you..the struggle will continue, but you will find your way. The flame in your soul has been lit and you will search until your thirst has been satisfied.

Prayer for the dead:

"Lord remember all those who have fallen asleep in the hope of resurrection and eternal life. Forgive all their sins committed in knowledge or ingnorance. Let them enjoy Your eternal blessings in the Light of Your presence;grant them peace, refreshment, fellowship with Your saints, and life that never ends. Have mercy on us, for You are full of grace and love mankind. Amen."

[Katerina]

Reading your accounts of your experiences, could I ask something personal. I ask it with love. Has writing about this experience benefited you? I know that when we relive something, in words or writing we sometimes clarify aspects of it in our minds. The sincerity and love have been a gift for us, but what about you? I sense that writing about your experiences has also helped you. Am I right?

Just reading these accounts has made me feel so humble and in awe of what faith can do both for these leaving this life and for those who remain with their pain.

Katerina : "Nurses had a special bond with him, and took care of him with detail, and always knew when I arrived- his heart rate would slow down to more normal. They always wondered why it just felt so peaceful in his room, and there was a wonderful fragrance..."


"his heart rate would slow down to normal" - doesn't this tell us volumes of what love means and what effect it has on our physical bodies.

Thank you.

Effie, oh yes, your instinct is quite correct. I kept a journal and the things I wrote, both during his illness and after...it helped and much more. To this day, every detail of all that happened during that time is engraved in my brain, the feelings and the wonderful grace that God saw us fit to experience are just so beyond anything that you can describe in earthly words! That we were worthy of this...! This is my struggle in the here and now, because I thirst after what I had been shown. It was paradise and experiencing being surrounded by God's love and His mercy is like...you want this again, so everything else is nothing. I had a period in my life afterwards of severe depression- the evil one grabbed a hold but good and it was the worst my life has ever been! My constant daily struggle to climb out of the pit of hell was only through prayer, confession and Holy communion. it took 4 years to climb out, and I know the Most Holy Mother of God helped me...I can now see it was necessary for my soul to have gone through this. I now understand others who have similar experiences.

My life now is good, thanks be to God, but I still feel that yearning for attaining that place I was once before. Things that seem lovely are not so much for me, because I have seen! My husband was amazing during his illness. He was patient, never complained. Peaceful, accepting the will of God, and he taught me how our faith should be lived. He had said at the time that it was God through me that he made it through all the suffering. We cried together, laughed, loved so much at all the wondrous things God gave us despite this difficult time, enjoyed our children together as much as time allowed us, and prayed together as a family at home and in church.

The one thing, is that I now see what God intended a true marriage to be. I had it those last two years of our life together. It was a bond through God, that I now understand so fully, and lived it where you can communicate with no words and feel the other's soul, so palpable, so alive with the joy of God and his saints, you just KNOW what is most important. Everything else is nothing! The parts of marriage and the things that we do to keep our marriage happy that our secular world deems so important, truly is not. It is hard sometimes when you have this knowledge, want to share it, but it just does not connect quite yet...this is my struggle. I need to be patient, kind and HUMBLE (this last one sometimes is the difficult one...I want to say "can't you SEE????" Oh, dear, Lord forgive me..)

So yes, again, this all helps. It helps to sort out the now, too. Thank you, Effie.

In IC XC,
Katerina

[Katerina]

Paul, a prayer to your Guardian Angel- it is beautiful, and consoling to know that he is listening as you say this. I feel sorrow for my sins and shame, but a peace after saying this prayer before starting my day:

"Oh holy angel that standeth by my wretched soul and my passionate life, forsake not me a sinner, nor shrink from me because of mine intemperance. Give no place for the cunning demon to master me through the violence of my mortal body, strengthen my poor and feeble hand, and guide me in the way of salvation. Yea, O holy angel of God, guardian and protector of my wretched soul and body, forgive me all wherein I have offended thee all the days of my life: and if I have sinned during the past night, protect me during the present day and guard me from every temptation of the enemy, that I may not anger God by any sin. And pray to the Lord for me, that He may establish me in His fear, and show me, His servant, to be worthy of His goodness.
Amen."

[Katerina]

Of course you are making more than sense Katerina! It is always moving to read such accounts and stories. May the memory of your husband be eternal! You moved me with the words you say.

About the Holy Myrrh... thank you for reminding me also this example which we can share with Paul.

We had myrrh from Saint Demetrios' church in Thessaloniki. It was almost 3 years since we had received it and the heavenly fragrance had not dissipated. It was as intense as it was at the moment we received it from the church. When my mother had reflecting pain in her body, always we placed it on the part of the body and there was some, or complete relief.

Yes, oh yes! Believe it or not, the cotton that we had gotten from the last time the Iveron Icon of the Holy Theotokos had visited my husband in the hospital, to THIS VERY DAY is fuller than full, and is as fragrant as the day we got it thirteen years ago! How I am worthy of this, I do not know...

There was also relief for my husband, and even one time, he was not able to swallow, and he was going to recieve communion. We blessed him with myhrr, and right before our priest came with the Holy Gifts, the doctors came and changed the site of his port-a-cath, and this freed him to be able to swallow!


During her last days on earth she was in such excruciating pain and suffering because the cancer had metastasized all over the intestines... sometime I was placing the myrrh over the abdominal area and I was silently crying (without my mother understanding it, or seeing me cry) and trying to pray in the midst of my mother's pain...

What made things more difficult it was the guilt I felt for not doing more for my mother, who carried me and nourished me in the same abdomen, that it was now the source of her pain. I often had my radiologist friend call my name several times (I was not paying attention) when he was trying to explain the CT scans of my mother which were spread on the lit screens and which would leave me speechless and thinking over and over the questions: "This is the abdomen of my mother. She helped me come into this life. How can I not help her heal? Why can't I do better and more so she can heal? Why my God can I not help my mother? She did so wonderful with her role as a mother, why can't I help her?"

For me, it was not a parent or grandparent, but my feeling was that I wish that I could've taken on all of his pain. Yes, EVERY bit of it...this is how powerful the love that God gives us is. I was truly ready and would have done it to spare him all of the pain that he was enduring!


I guess most children and grandchildren would feel an associated guilt because our parents and grandparents sacrifice so much for us. And I understand you Paul perfectly because I loved my grandparents also more than much... so this love you have for your grandmother speaks to me a lot. And if my mother had been fine and alive, I would have been probably grieving for my grandparents now... but since they all lived many years here and enjoyed weddings of all their children and that of some of grandchildren; and saw, raised and enjoyed so many grandchildren and grand-grandchildren, it seems to me now that my mother, who left this life early is to be grieved for (she was only 49 when she was diagnosed and suffered for 3 years and 3 months)... that is why I do not mention my grandparents. But I totally understand your pain and I think that God helps those people who suffer from cancer, like He helps all His people and creatures.

Make the effort dear Paul and try to raise above the feeling of guilt that you could have done more for your grandmother, even if you are not conscious about it... I had moments like that also... and then I was more aware of my guilt and how I was not helping my mother - so even if I was in the Orthodoxy, I felt I was doing so little for my mother. This might sound so bad, but I blamed myself for not being a better person and a saint so I could help my mother through my prayers. I thought that since I was a sinner God did not listen to my plea and that is why mom suffered - because of me. All these were temptations because saints would not be praying and coercing God to do something.

So you can see that the love we have is something very positive, but can be a source for temptations also. I can not even describe to you and enumerate the foolish things I would have done to "save" my mother - the love, which became also a temptation, was blinding me.

We tell you, not to regret anything about your grandmother, because God knew and He provided for your grandmother as He did for my mother and all. God is merciful dear Paul. God is love.

I realized at some point that I did not love my mother more than God does; I also realized that my mother is of course my mother, but before everything she is the daughter of God, and if He willed her to depart, who was I to object? The moment I realized and I accepted these truths I asked forgiveness from God and I let her go...

I wake up sometimes from dreams where my mother is- (and since I think of her all the time, I also dream of her always) so I wake up with tears rolling down my face and sometime I feel her love so intensely and her voice so real, like she was really with me and alive at those moments. It is like in reality when she was alive but even more intense and beautiful - because it is from another world. I make an effort to wake up at those moments so as to remember her and enjoy awake these beautiful moments, although I shed tears because I miss her. After I get more used to the reality of being awake, I think of what can I do next for her soul and how to help her soul even more. And in my ignorance and the limited possibilities I have, I try to do my best. Afterwards, I feel peace because I think God will look favorably at the love of a daughter for a mother and take my feeble attempts and multiply them for her soul, wherever He willed her to be.

I too had a dream or two after the 40th day... how radiant, peaceful and beautiful my dear husband looked! He looked like he did when he was well, only better still, and the happiness on his face was indescribable. Oh the Glory of God!

Take peace, dear Nina, in that you were and still are a most wonderful daughter to your mother, and God knows this.

[Effie Ganatsios]

Milton also wrote a fourteen-line poem called, 'On his deceased wife' which I find more moving than any amount of 'Paradise Lost'. Here is part of it:

'Methought I saw my late espoused saint
Brought to me like Alcestis from the grave,
. . .
Came vested all in white, pure as her mind:
Her face was veiled, yet to my fancied sight
Love, sweetness, goodness, in her person shined
So clear, as in no face with more delight.
But oh! as to embrace me she inclined,
I waked, she fled, and day brought back my night.'

Beautiful!

I don't really care what scientists tell us about our dreams and how they are created. I only know that those we have lost sometimes come back to us and live again. If we are lucky they are sometimes so vivid and "alive" that it's hard to imagine that the dream is only a dream and not reality.

[Nina]

Dear Paul,

I think you have had love always for your grandmother and she knew it. Even when you were very busy and did not display your love for her, she knew it. I have been so often busy and did not make my love known to my parents, grandparents. They know though. My grandparents used to refer to us grandchildren as "honey from honey". This meant that they loved their children and considered them honey, but we were even more dear to them, even more sweeter, because the love doubles. They were there always for us to protect us in front of our parents when we were mischievous, or disobeyed etc. Ok... they spoiled us, but that is what grandparents are for. :) And even when we are too young, or too busy etc. to tell them we love them, they know and they treasure and cherish us and our love.

And as you see from Katerina's words love is always so strong and made her feel like sacrificing herself for the life of her husband.

Do not feel embarrassed for your life because we all are sinners. And like Andreas says it takes a brave and humble soul to make such a public confession.

Dear Effie, Yes the process of writing is cathartic. And thank God for Paul here, that started the thread. He is asking us for help, but he is helping us really. Thank you Effie also about all your heartfelt support and words and verses!

[Paul Cowan]

Dear Paul,

Have you seen this Akathist? Ask your spiritual father but I have found great benefit from saying it everyday and if not everyday at least consistently.

The Akathist to the Mother of God the Inexhaustible Cup (http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/resources/services/akathist_inexhaustible_cup.htm)

Paul

[Effie Ganatsios]

Dear Paul,

Have you seen this Akathist? Ask your spiritual father but I have found great benefit from saying it everyday and if not everyday at least consistently.

The Akathist to the Mother of God the Inexhaustible Cup (http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/resources/services/akathist_inexhaustible_cup.htm)

Paul

Nothing is coincidental, nothing. God provides!

Paul, thank you so much for finding and posting this. For years, I have had two very close friends -ever since our children were babies, . Yesterday one of these friends and I were so desperate because our other friend has an alcoholic son and she is experiencing her own golgotha, as we say here.

This man who is so dear to me, every since he was a baby, has totally ruined his life and that of his family. He was in a special clinic for about 6 months but for the last two he has been home and he has started drinking again. My friend and her husband have this huge, huge cross to bear. I won't go into the details but anyone who has had any contact with alcoholics knows how hard it is for the family.

We feel so helpless because there is really nothing we can do to help our friend.

I am going to try and find a translation of the prayers you posted, Paul, and give it to my friend. The very least the three of us can do is pray together. God is mighty and He is a kind God. These parents have spent a fortune on their son's illness and right now he is back where he started.

It's also sad that this disease, which was rare in Greece, is slowly gaining ground here because the way young people drink now is completely opposite to how they drank in the past. Everyone here drinks wine with their food, as they have always done. But never wine by itself, as we sometimes see in films, etc. The young people now frequent the many clubs etc. where they drink alcohol neat, no food with it of course. And the result of the above and of the more stressful life we now have is that we are beginning to experience this disease here as well.

Thank you again Paul. You are the answer to a prayer.

Effie

[Paul Cowan]

Dear Effie,

Until this person "wants" help, the family is throwing their money away. He/ She MUST hit bottom and want to stop drinking. There have been posts in other threads on Alcoholics Anonymous (http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/?Media=PlayFlash). Here is their web page if this person truly is interested.

Otherwise, all anyone can do is get out of their way and pray. I will say Panaghia does answer heart ripping prayers with this Akathist and icon for addictions not just alcohol.

I would so love to go to Serpokhov to venerate it and her. She saved my life and my marriage.

Paul




Dear Nina,

I get it now.
She saved my life and my marriage.

[Nina]

Dear Nina,

I get it now.

Dear Paul, the "it" has been always with you!

[Paul Cowan]

Dear all,

Sorry for the inside discussion...

Dear Nina,

I get it now.
Quotation:
She saved my life and my marriage.


Nina and Herman have been trying to help me understand offline "how the Theotokos saves." It just clicked.

[Nina]

Paul, I did not have anything to do with this. Because the "it" which is Panagia was with you always and you knew everything because of your heart and God, and Panagia. Herman probably feels the same.

[Annalise Kockott]

Hello
Your postings are all very beautiful. I just wanted to say that I have found that reading the words of the fathers and saints in the awareness that they have been read and spoken by so many many people over the past 2000 years is deeply comforting. It makes one feel somehow less alone, and you realise that we are all part of a long continuum of suffering, faith and love, wherever (I am in South Africa!) and whoever we are.
Annalise