Dealing with anger

[Elzabet]

I have such anger inside me right now. I attempted to read the psalms to try to calm down but apparently David was feeling the same way when he wrote the one I read so it wasn't exactly calming. How do I get over this feeling? I don't want to "stuff it" and I have my reasons for it but I don't want to sin in my anger either. I would be most grateful for any help.

Thank you

In Him
Beth

[Mary]

I have such anger inside me right now. I attempted to read the psalms to try to calm down but apparently David was feeling the same way when he wrote the one I read so it wasn't exactly calming. How do I get over this feeling? I don't want to "stuff it" and I have my reasons for it but I don't want to sin in my anger either. I would be most grateful for any help.

Thank you

In Him
Beth

For me, Confession helped. In fact, that's the only thing that helps me. Or I may be able to think of other things IF I put my mind to it.

You could PM me. I don't want everyone in the world to know what a violent creature I used to be... ;)

But for a quick help - screaming helped me too. Just shut myself in the bathroom and screamed as loudly as I could. The kids were surprised that I was actually louder than they could be, the two of them put together!

I hope you don't feel I'm makiing light of it. I hate my anger too, and I don't know if I'm done struggling with it or not. Perhaps not. Or maybe it was mixed up with my depression. One tangle can cause more tangles, I'm sure.

Oh - one more thing - I think it helped me a great deal to actually be able to talk about the things that I got angry about. Do you have a friend who will listen to you without judging, but not join you in your anger or your pity party? That's a good kind of friend to have.

I'll be praying for you.
In Christ,
Mary.

[Father David Moser]

I have such anger inside me right now. I attempted to read the psalms to try to calm down but apparently David was feeling the same way when he wrote the one I read so it wasn't exactly calming.

Within the psalms there is a wide variety. Different psalms are good for different things. Using the psalter indiscriminately to help with different conditions is like opening the medicine cabinet and just grabbing the first bottle that comes to hand without even looking and taking the pills in it - not necessarily helpful and sometimes harmful. If you (like me) are not sufficiently familiar with the psalter to know which one is good in a particular situation, let me encourage you to look at the letter of St Athanasius to Marcellinus on the interpretation of the psalms - it sets out the different uses of different psalms quite well.



How do I get over this feeling? I don't want to "stuff it" and I have my reasons for it but I don't want to sin in my anger either. I would be most grateful for any help.

Here is the advice of the Elder Joseph the Hesychast of Mt Athos

Anger in itself is natural. Just as the body has nerves, the soul has anger. Everyone should use it against the demons, heretics, and anyone who hinders us from the path of God. However, if you get angry with your fellow brothers or get in a rage and ruin the works of your hand, know that you are suffering from vainglory and are abusing the nerve of your soul. You are delivered from this passion through love towards all and true humility.

Therefore, when anger comes, close your mouth tightly, and do not speak to him who curses, dishonors, reproaches, or bothers you in any way without reason. Then this snake will writhe around in your heart, rise up to your throat and (since you don't give it a way out) will choke and suffocate. When this is repeated several times, it will diminish and cease entirely.

This advice of the elder doesn't quite match the popular "wisdom of the world" and pop psychology which encourages us to express our anger freely (and in fact tells us that we have the right and obligation to do so). In the eyes of the world, the wisdom of God appears foolish. We, of course are free to choose which we will follow - the world or the Holy Spirit speaking through the Church.

Fr David Moser

[Effie Ganatsios]

Yes, as Mary says, talking to a close friend about your anger will help.

I find that when I get angry over something trivial I need to search deep inside myself to find out why I am angry. With me it sometimes has to do with my pride.

If the reason you are angry is serious and you need to take action, think about the problem logically and then do something constructive about it.

Read the psalms. You will find that even though you are still feeling angry, you will read something that will calm you just a little, and then something else that will make you think a little. Slowly, slowly you will find that the words in the bible will calm you. The next step is not to relive whatever made you angry, in your mind. Don't dwell on it. Heed the words of the fathers on anger.



Effie

[Effie Ganatsios]

Elizabet, you weren't reading Psalm 109, were you?

Psalm 109

"In return for my love they slander me, even though I prayed for them.
5
They repay me evil for good, hatred for my love. My enemies say of me:
6
2 "Find a lying witness, an accuser to stand by his right hand,
7
That he may be judged and found guilty, that his plea may be in vain.
8
May his days be few; may another take his office.
9
May his children be fatherless, his wife, a widow.
10
May his children be vagrant beggars, driven from their hovels.
11
May the usurer snare all he owns, strangers plunder all he earns.
12
May no one treat him kindly or pity his fatherless children.
13
May his posterity be destroyed, his name cease in the next generation.
14
May the LORD remember his fathers' guilt; his mother's sin not be canceled.
15
May their guilt be always before the LORD, till their memory is banished from the earth,
16
For he did not remember to show kindness, but hounded the wretched poor and brought death to the brokenhearted.
17
He loved cursing; may it come upon him; he hated blessing; may none come to him.
18
May cursing clothe him like a robe; may it enter his belly like water, seep into his bones like oil.
19
May it be near as the clothes he wears, as the belt always around him."


This is a "psalm of imprecation" and is attributed to David. Quite scary, really. These people did not believe in mincing their words.


Not exactly what Jesus instructed us to do with our anger, is it?

But Jesus got very angry as well. Remember.

"John 2:14-15 - In the temple Jesus found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and money changers seated at their tables. Making a whip of cords, he drove all of them out of the temple."

I suppose we should ask ourselves, WHY? Why are we angry? Have we got a good reason to be angry?

[Elzabet]

Thank you all. I've recieved advice to pray for my enemy and I will be doing that. I will be more careful about my psalm reading in the future too. I sometimes do forget that, as Effie said, David minced no words. ~blush~ I never thought that not speaking would be helpful. That is very new to me.

I want to be sure not to sin and not to hold this so it becomes bitterness. That would help nothing about the situation.

Thank you. Please pray for me in my weakness

In Him
Beth

[Nina]

I sometimes do forget that, as Effie said, David minced no words. ~blush~ I never thought that not speaking would be helpful. That is very new to me.

In Him
Beth

Dear Elzabet and Effie,

I am no expert in Psalms, but I have read somewhere from the Fathers that the enemies that Patriarch David speaks about are Satan and his demons.

Like in the "Let God arise and all his enemies be scattered and those who hate His Holy Name may flee from His face..." and other prayers.

[Mary]

Here is the advice of the Elder Joseph the Hesychast of Mt Athos

Quote:


Anger in itself is natural. Just as the body has nerves, the soul has anger. Everyone should use it against the demons, heretics, and anyone who hinders us from the path of God. However, if you get angry with your fellow brothers or get in a rage and ruin the works of your hand, know that you are suffering from vainglory and are abusing the nerve of your soul. You are delivered from this passion through love towards all and true humility.

Therefore, when anger comes, close your mouth tightly, and do not speak to him who curses, dishonors, reproaches, or bothers you in any way without reason. Then this snake will writhe around in your heart, rise up to your throat and (since you don't give it a way out) will choke and suffocate. When this is repeated several times, it will diminish and cease entirely.

This advice of the elder doesn't quite match the popular "wisdom of the world" and pop psychology which encourages us to express our anger freely (and in fact tells us that we have the right and obligation to do so). In the eyes of the world, the wisdom of God appears foolish. We, of course are free to choose which we will follow - the world or the Holy Spirit speaking through the Church.

Fr David Moser

Dear Fr David,

It isn't wrong to talk about my anger to a 3rd person, is it? I mean, I see the wisdom in being totally silent and a not speaking to the person who has just angered me. Anything I'd say in anger, can only destroy and not bring healing, even if I'm totally right. But stuffing my anger, isn't the same as dealing with it. I've stuffed my anger all my life and it went deeper and deeper into my being, always simmering somewhere down there, and erupting every once in awhile, like a volcano. It turned into bitterness, hate, distrust, and a lot of unholy things.

One way I got it out of my system, before I had any friend to talk to, or priest to confess to, was to write about it. But that wasn't the best 'therapy' for I was reliving the incident, carefully choosing the best words to describe my feelings and the incident, and thus driving it deeper into myself. But, on the surface, it did help me get rid of the heat on the surface, and better able to control myself.

Also, anger very easily drives out my ability to think rationally, so isn't it important to have the input of a person I trust, who can think for me till I return to my senses?

In Christ,
Mary.

[Father David Moser]

Dear Fr David,

It isn't wrong to talk about my anger to a 3rd person, is it? I mean, I see the wisdom in being totally silent and a not speaking to the person who has just angered me. Anything I'd say in anger, can only destroy and not bring healing, even if I'm totally right. But stuffing my anger, isn't the same as dealing with it. I've stuffed my anger all my life and it went deeper and deeper into my being, always simmering somewhere down there, and erupting every once in awhile, like a volcano. It turned into bitterness, hate, distrust, and a lot of unholy things.
...
Also, anger very easily drives out my ability to think rationally, so isn't it important to have the input of a person I trust, who can think for me till I return to my senses?

Mary,

You are right - dealing with anger is not the same as "stuffing" it. I believe that you should speak about the things that anger you and try to work them out/work through them - but you should not do so in the heat of anger. Don't "stuff" the anger, but "choke" it - deny its destructive expression - and when the heat of the anger has passed, then speak about it to a third person or even, if possible with the object of your angry episode. This is vital because anger that is left "untreated" can only fester. Remember what the Elder Joseph said about this passion, that it is dealt with through love and humility and so any discussion about the anger should be conducted with at least the effort towards these virtues. In love you seek never to harm someone and you seek the other person's best interests (even sacrificing your own) and in humility you are always ready to accept the responsibility for the angry response. You do not control what comes to you - but you do control how you respond. If you were enraged, it was because your response was faulty and you then need to look at what you did so that you can respond differently.

One of the reasons that I quoted the Elder Joseph in this is that this forum is not really focused on pastoral issues, but rather on the patristic view of issues - thus it is not for me to advise and direct, but rather to share what I have learned from the Holy Fathers. I don't know anything about anyone's situation here in this discussion and so cannot comment with any authority - but I do know what has helped me when I am angry and those things I can pass on.

Fr David Moser

[Paul Cowan]

Elzabet

I don't know your situation, but I used to be consumed with road rage and other types of mental anger.

I prayed to Her and Christ for help and was "given" a revelation that

I too have done this to others. whatever "this" might be.

Once I realized I was being hypocritical by being angry at this other person for something I had equally done before numerous times, my anger left me. Yes, sometimes I still have to check myself, but I recognize it when it happens and release it or as Fr. David says, Choke it. Life is much more peaceful for me now. I am THE worst of sinners. How can I get angry at others when I KNOW this?

Paul

[Effie Ganatsios]

Elzabet

I don't know your situation, but I used to be consumed with road rage and other types of mental anger.

I prayed to Her and Christ for help and was "given" a revelation that

I too have done this to others. whatever "this" might be.

Once I realized I was being hypocritical by being angry at this other person for something I had equally done before numerous times, my anger left me. Yes, sometimes I still have to check myself, but I recognize it when it happens and release it or as Fr. David says, Choke it. Life is much more peaceful for me now. I am THE worst of sinners. How can I get angry at others when I KNOW this?

Paul

Paul, on a lighter note : if you decide to come to Greece, and given your past history with road rage, do not, I repeat, do not, hire a car and drive here.

Effie

[Effie Ganatsios]

Dear Elzabet and Effie,

I am no expert in Psalms, but I have read somewhere from the Fathers that the enemies that Patriarch David speaks about are Satan and his demons.

Like in the "Let God arise and all his enemies be scattered and those who hate His Holy Name may flee from His face..." and other prayers.


Nina, this particular psalm is definitely not directed to Satan and his demons.
It is too specific. I might be wrong though, assuming that demons might reside in some people. I am totally out of my depth here, so I won't continue.
What does the Orthodox church teach us about demons? I know that there is an exorcism ceremony that priests can do, but that's about all I know.

Effie

[Andreas Moran]

'About demons' would make a good thread, wouldn't it? Most of those around us in the western world no doubt think it's potty to believe in demons and evil spirits, but as Orthodox we cannot ignore them - they certainly don't ignore us!

[Athanasius Abdullah]

What does the Orthodox church teach us about demons?


'About demons' would make a good thread, wouldn't it? Most of those around us in the western world no doubt think it's potty to believe in demons and evil spirits, but as Orthodox we cannot ignore them - they certainly don't ignore us!

I apologise for straying further away from the subject of the OP, but having just finished reading St Athanasius' Life of St Antony a second time round, I would like to recommend it as an excellent and most helpful patristic source on demonology. Although this particular source seems more concerned with providing practical guidance than with developing a demonology as such, I would suggest that a solid demonology can nevertheless be extracted from the text. Although the Life is centred around the severe demonic assaults launched against an ascetic solitary I believe there are many principles relevant to laity that can be learnt from St Antony's example and teachings nevertheless. St Athanasius himself even indicates that one of the fundamental purposes of the text is 'that the Christians, those who serve him truly and believe in him piously...[may] tread on [the demons] and chase them away as deceivers and corrupters of mankind' (Ch. 94.2).

Sorry again for the interlude, but I am just in love with the Life (as i'm sure is the case with the many who have also read it) and could not pass this opportunity to "advertise" it.

In IC XC
Athanasius

[Owen Jones]

For centuries, mankind has tried to come up with an alternative explanation for demonic behavior other than the demons!!! With all of the supposed sophistication of modern methods, psychological, sociological, etc. we are nevertheless confronted with a mass outbreak of demonomaniacal behavior.

The task is to become so familiar with our besetting sins, through the practice of confession and prayer, forgiveness and the other virtues, that we are constantly aware and constantly on guard in a way that becomes second nature. Not necessarily effortless, but can begin to detect the assaults of the demons, in particular, say, the demon of anger, before we begin to entertain it, welcome it, couple with it, give in to it.

I think there is a particularly nasty contemporary illusion which plays into the hands of the demons, which is that somehow we are or ought to be in control, and that also there should be some analytical solution to our problem.

But the demon of anger attacks without warning, and without proper, constant practice, it quickly gains control, and it is in control even when we do not perceive ourselves to be angry.

Whatever harm as been done to us that has caused us to be angry, we have to forgive and continue to forgive, 24/7.

Whatever fear has triggered an angry response, we have to give to God and ask for His courage.

Whatever doubt has caused us to be angry with the world or with ourselves, we have to replace with true Faith, calling humbly on God for the power which is not within ourselves.

[Mary]

The demons become weak when through the commandments the passions are diminished in us. And they perish when finally they are obliterated through detachment of soul, since they no longer find anything by which they might gain and do battle against it. And this is surely the meaning of 'They shall be weakened and perish before thy face'.
- St Maximus the Confessor



That's what met me when I logged on this morning. =)

[Anthony]

As somebody who is particularly subject to the vice of anger, I would second Mary's comment that confession and communion are the key.

The Psalms are also a great help. As C.S.Lewis says, some of them enable us to rant and rave while somehow transforming this into something else (my paraphrase). St Athanasius' Letter to Marcellinus is a great source for selecting Psalms.

[Paul Cowan]

'About demons' would make a good thread, wouldn't it? Most of those around us in the western world no doubt think it's potty to believe in demons and evil spirits, but as Orthodox we cannot ignore them - they certainly don't ignore us!

Not exactly true Andreas. We are about to be assaulted by a bunch of little Demons knocking on our doors begging for treats or threatening tricks.
Demonism is all to prevelant in the secular world and they DO recognize it as well as participate in it. Even "Christians". I hate this time of year.

[Nina]

Nina, this particular psalm is definitely not directed to Satan and his demons.
It is too specific. I might be wrong though, assuming that demons might reside in some people. I am totally out of my depth here, so I won't continue.
What does the Orthodox church teach us about demons? I know that there is an exorcism ceremony that priests can do, but that's about all I know.

Effie


These people did not believe in mincing their words.
Not exactly what Jesus instructed us to do with our anger, is it?


Effie, I said in general the psalms call enemy, the Satan and his demons, because Patriarch David does direct many words to them. But you are right that this particular psalm is not directly about them, but indirectly.

As we know OT was inspired by the Holy Spirit. St. John Chrysostom says about this particular psalm that it is partly directed at Judas, and this psalms' words resonate with other prophecies in the OT about Judas.

So it is not that the Psalmist was angered at someone else per se. But he formulated these verses, inspired by the Holy Spirit, as a prophecy about the person who would betray Christ, and who by despairing and hanging himself would condemn himself. The rest of the psalm speaks about evil people who do not obey God and His appointed priests. When the Psalmists mentions children, it does not mean literally their biological children. But it is a symbol for those who are related to these evil people through evil; so it is not about biological relation. Therefore we understand that as in: their children as in apprentices, disciples, their followers etc. in evil, who do not obey the priests and who worship idols, which are demons, and try to mislead the people of God. And who causes people to commit such sins as the above and that of Judas? The Evil one.

About demons: Have you read the lives of Saint Kyprian and Saint Justina?

Andreas, is right when he said that it is important to keep in mind that demons are real and not a game. I was taught that the greatest deception the devil has achieved to blind some people with is the lie that he does not exist. If one does not exist, how can he be enemy and how can we be aware how to fight him? This deception is not restricted to a particular geographical part of the world, but there are people everywhere who have fallen for this trick.

[Andreas Moran]

Nina said:
I was taught that the greatest deception the devil has achieved to blind some people with is the lie that he does not exist. If one does not exist, how can he be enemy and how can we be aware how to fight him? This deception is not restricted to a particular geographical part of the world, but there are people everywhere who have fallen for this trick.

This is exactly what I was taught also. I suppose most of these kids who do 'trick or treat' don't know what they're really playing with. But as I see ever more elaborate ghoulish and demonic costumes on sale in the shops, I shudder. Can we help each other with proper responses to that knock on the door at the end of this month? This is rather off anger, but, then again, perhaps not.

Incidentally, is everyone familiar with Fr Patrick Reardon's book, 'Christ in the Psalms'? I think it's good.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Andreas wrote:


This is exactly what I was taught also. I suppose most of these kids who do 'trick or treat' don't know what they're really playing with. But as I see ever more elaborate ghoulish and demonic costumes on sale in the shops, I shudder. Can we help each other with proper responses to that knock on the door at the end of this month? This is rather off anger, but, then again, perhaps not.

Quite purposefully on that night we have Vespers for St John of Kronstadt who is celebrated on Oct 19/Nov 1.

Interestingly in a city I used to live in one of the New Calendar Orthodox parishes used to serve Vespers for St John of Kronstadt on that night and for the very same reason. It serves as a kind of counter hallowed evening.

As for what to do practically. I do not open the door on that night. But of course it helps that my residence is attached to the back of the church. In all my years here not one 'trick or treater' has yet to knock on our door on that night!

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Paul Cowan]

Would this be an inopportune time to witness somehow to these kids? Perhaps afix a huge cross to the front door. Or put a track in their bags, or simply say I am a Christian we don't participate in Halloween. Just leave the lights off on the front porch. Put speakers on top of the house full blast and play "Let God arise.." over and over. (That one was a joke).

[Effie Ganatsios]

Elzabet, I found this. Perhaps you might find it interesting. I know I do, because this morning I lost my temper and I am disgusted with myself.
I was searching for "controlling anger" and came across this.


http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles5/MorelliAnger.php

Effie

[Moses Anthony]

I have such anger inside me right now. I attempted to read the psalms to try to calm down but apparently David was feeling the same way when he wrote the one I read so it wasn't exactly calming. How do I get over this feeling? I don't want to "stuff it" and I have my reasons for it but I don't want to sin in my anger either. I would be most grateful for any help.

Thank you

In Him
Beth

Dear Elizabeth,
By profession, I'm a Correctional Officer (13years); by choice I'm Orthodox.

One of the things which gets to me is the language used by both Officers and offenders. From the offenders it is expected, and yet whenever they act out their aggression verbally it is still a dagger to the heart. I should know better! And this especially so since I know that until the day I die, I"m in a spiritual battle against the forces of evil, the world, and the inclinations of my own flesh. The things which you and I would never think of using as a verbal assault against another person, is as common to inmates as, well, breathing. Necrophilia, pedophilia, rape, murder, theft, assault; it's all fair game. Again, more than I'd like to, I forget that for all intents and purposes, they're puppets on a string, manipulated by the minions of a demonic lieutenant. I say this because of what usually comes next, a display of anger, either in word , deed, or both!

The vast majority of the time the display we see of anger, is founded upon how we've come to react at a violation of social mores. In other words, it's become a habit, and habits are the dickens to let go of, and or, to change. Which I mean to say is foundation of a choice, which is quite often what our outbursts of anger is, a choice. I have chosen to defend the honor of my pride!

With the inmates I have to make the choice, not to respond in kind, because whenever I do it's already a defeat for me (yielding to temptation), and a victory for them in their game of manipulation. The Philokalia -and I forget which volumes- have a lot of quotes from the Saints on overcoming anger. St. Maximos the Confessor's, Four Hundred Chapters on Love is very helpful.

One thing which is crucial to overcoming anger, is applicable in any war: KNOW YOUR ENEMY. Satan will set up a situation to use your reactions against you, for guilt and accusation. As to whether or not one goes out into the woods and screams their head off, as a means to release feelings of anger, well, there are tons of such methods. What I've been told, and am in the process of working on, is not the techniques, but the foundation for my anger: pride, and humility - the fulfillment of righteousness.

the sinful and unworthy servant,
moses