Canonical status of 1 Esdras

[Stuart Dunn]

What is the view of this book by the Orthodox Church? I was looking at OrthodoxWiki and it is listed as a canonical book. But when I went to find it on the Internet, several sites said "The book of First Esdras is basically a reproduction of 2 Chronicles 35-36, Ezra, and Nehemiah 7:38-8:12" So if that is true, is 1st Esdras in your Bible and the three sources cited omitted? Or what? Thanks in advance for the answer.

[Michael Stickles]

The passages mentioned are not omitted from their original places. 1 Esdras reproduces them in a similar way to how sections of 1/2 Chronicles reproduce sections of 1/2 Samuel and 1/2 Kings -- the wording is a bit different, and some things are left out or added in, but they essentially cover the same story.

For example, in 1 Esdras 1-2, the story covers the same things as 2 Chronicles 35-36 and Ezra 1,4:7-24, but Ezra 2:1-4:6 are omitted. 1 Esdras 3 then picks up with a discussion between three of King Darius' bodyguards concerning what is the strongest thing -- a discussion not found in Chronicles, Ezra or Nehemiah.

I'm not certain if Orthodox teaching regards 1 Esdras as canonical, or as deuterocanonical (I read somewhere that deuterocanonical books are considered useful for personal edification, but not authoritative for doctrine). Hopefully one of the more knowledgable members can correct my uncertainties and give a more sure answer.

In Christ,
Mike

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

I'm not certain if Orthodox teaching regards 1 Esdras as canonical, or as deuterocanonical (I read somewhere that deuterocanonical books are considered useful for personal edification, but not authoritative for doctrine).


The Russian bible I have from the Moscow Patriarchate lists 1 Esdras among the other books of the OT. 2 and 3 Esdras however are indicated as 'not-canonical' (неканонические) which really has more of the meaning of deuterocanonical.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Michael Stickles]

The Russian bible I have from the Moscow Patriarchate lists 1 Esdras among the other books of the OT. 2 and 3 Esdras however are indicated as 'not-canonical' (неканонические) which really has more of the meaning of deuterocanonical.

I know there are three different numbering schemes for Esdras (Ezra), so let's make sure we don't get things confused. Using the common English designations as the starting point:

Ezra (Vulgate: 1 Esdras; Slavonic: part of 1 Esdras)
Nehemiah (Vulgate: 2 Esdras; Slavonic: part of 1 Esdras)
1 Esdras (Vulgate: 3 Esdras; Slavonic: 2 Esdras)
2 Esdras (Vulgate: 4 Esdras; Slavonic: 3 Esdras)

I assume your Russian bible uses the Slavonic designations, so that what Stuart means by 1 Esdras would be 2 Esdras in yours?

In Christ,
Mike

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

I know there are three different numbering schemes for Esdras (Ezra), so let's make sure we don't get things confused. Using the common English designations as the starting point:

Ezra (Vulgate: 1 Esdras; Slavonic: part of 1 Esdras)
Nehemiah (Vulgate: 2 Esdras; Slavonic: part of 1 Esdras)
1 Esdras (Vulgate: 3 Esdras; Slavonic: 2 Esdras)
2 Esdras (Vulgate: 4 Esdras; Slavonic: 3 Esdras)

I assume your Russian bible uses the Slavonic designations, so that what Stuart means by 1 Esdras would be 2 Esdras in yours?

In Christ,
Mike

In the Russian bible I referred to 1 Esdras is the same as Ezra in the RSV;
2 Esdras is the same as 1 Esdras & 3 Esdras is the same as 2 Esdras.

From a footnote in the Russian version it says that the translation into & appearance in the Russian versions comes neither from the Hebrew nor the Greek but rather from the Vulgate. An interesting example of the differences between our Orthodox versions of Scripture and their influences.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Stuart Dunn]

Ow...my head just exploded from so many Esdras...Thank you for the clarification albeit I'm still a little befuddled.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Ow...my head just exploded from so many Esdras...

1 Esdras; 2 Esdrii; 3 Esdrases...

[Stuart Dunn]

OK perhaps I should clarify my question better. OrthodoxWiki list these books as the OT Canon. http://orthodoxwiki.org/Bible#The_Old_Testament_Canon

I understand (by understand I mean I can find them easily) the other books with the exception of 1st Esdras listed here. Is this 1st Esdras listed canonical? And if it is how does it start off? Like what are the first few verses of the 1st Chapter, so I will know that I have the correct 1st Esdras when I find the text online?

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

OK perhaps I should clarify my question better. OrthodoxWiki list these books as the OT Canon. http://orthodoxwiki.org/Bible#The_Old_Testament_Canon

I understand (by understand I mean I can find them easily) the other books with the exception of 1st Esdras listed here. Is this 1st Esdras listed canonical? And if it is how does it start off? Like what are the first few verses of the 1st Chapter, so I will know that I have the correct 1st Esdras when I find the text online?

The confusion is because the way the books are listed on the Orthodoxwiki site is different from the Russian Orthodox Bible.

In the Russian Bible 1 Esdras is the same as the book of Ezra in the standard western bibles; eg RSV. So this version of 1 Esdras would be considered to be within the regular OT canon.

I'm not sure what book the 1 Esdras on the Orthodoxwiki list however corresponds to. Certainly not the 1 Esdras as found in the version of the Russian bible referred to above which is Esra in western versions.

Perhaps it is the 1 Esdras as found in the Apocrypha of the New Oxford Annotated Bible with the Apocrypha (back section page 1). Why this is called 1 Esdras when the intro to this book in the New Oxford version says it is called 3 Esdras in the Vulgate & when it is 2 Esdras in the Russian version is a mystery to me.

Until further notice maybe for clarity's sake it would best to read these books in the following order as found in the Russian version:
i) Esra which follows after 2 Chronicles
ii) then place after Nehemiah the 1 Esdras as found in the New Oxford version
iii) then place at the end of the OT after 3 Maccabees the 2 Esdras as found in the New Oxford version.

From the above, which follows the order as found in the Russian version, it would seem that only 3 Esdras (2 Esdras in the Oxford version) is really considered to be deuterocanonical.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Nicolaj]

As I read through these thread I sathat you are mentioning a bible from the moscow patriarchate which has footnotes and maybe crossreferences? Can you probably give me a hint where I can purchase such an bible as until now I find many beautiful bibles in russian or churchslavonic although none which I can use for studying the scriptures. When I like to do so I have to take other sources and use them along my russian text.

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

As I read through these thread I sathat you are mentioning a bible from the moscow patriarchate which has footnotes and maybe crossreferences? Can you probably give me a hint where I can purchase such an bible as until now I find many beautiful bibles in russian or churchslavonic although none which I can use for studying the scriptures. When I like to do so I have to take other sources and use them along my russian text.

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

Sorry- a parishioner gave me the version I use and I do not know where they obtained it from.

But if it helps: this version is from the Russian Bible Society (Moscow 2000) and blessed by Patriarch Alexei. It contains the books of both the OT & NT as found in the Russian Orthodox versions (so that in the NT for example the various catholic epistles follow after Acts).

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Michael Stickles]

Amazon.com has two Marketplace listings for the Russian Bible Society (Moscow 2000) edition in new condition; both have a seller in the Russian Federation who will ship internationally. The first is leatherbound with a thumb index (http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Bible-Large-Leather-Thumb/dp/5855240924/); the second is leatherbound with zipper (http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Bible-Large-Leather-Zipper/dp/5855240770/). Here are a few pictures from Amazon, so Fr. Raphael can confirm if it's the same as what he has:

535455

You can also check the Russian Bible Society (http://vrbs.ru/eng/price/index.htm)website to see if you can order directly from them (it looks like everything there is in lots of 6 or more, though).

In christ,
Mike

[Nicolaj]

Dear Brethren!

Thank you for the help on a Russian bible with cross-references and so on. I will order one for the coming fast as the book I will study during the fasting for Christmas.
Thanks again!!!

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

[Stuart Dunn]

What do ya'll think about this site?

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/r/rsv/browse.html

I found it when I was looking up information on 1st Esdras. Would this be a good version for reading?

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

What do ya'll think about this site?

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/r/rsv/browse.html

I found it when I was looking up information on 1st Esdras. Would this be a good version for reading?

Yes, but just keep in mind that the names of the books may be different in the official Catholic bibles as they are in ours.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Stuart Dunn]

Understood...I await the release of the Orthodox Bible and hope there are no more delays. When they finally make it available to order, I better pre-order cause I anticipate them selling out more quickly than they will realize.