Russian mystics

[David Naess]

Coming to orthodoxy via an "easterly route," my priest has concluded that my best course of study (for starts) is to:
READ THE RUSSIAN MYSTICS!

Are there quite a few already completely translated into English or will I need to learn Russian in order to do any real in depth study?

I'm starting with St. Herman's Press: "Little Russian Philokalia" series, but that barely scratches the surface.

I also have:
"Russian Mystics"
by: Sergius Bolshakoff

as a reference, but I don't know how many of the writers Bolshakoff refers to have actually been translated.

[Andrew]

Here's a list:
The Art of Prayer, compiled by Igumen Chariton of Valaam
The Spiritual Life and How to be Attuned to It, by Saint Theophan
Saint Silouan the Athonite, by Elder Sophrony
Saint Seraphim of Sarov, by Father Lazarus Moore (out of print, but the non-profit press that I am a part of are doing a new edition of this... should be back in print in a few months, God willing)
The Prayer of Jesus, by Saint Ignatius Brianchaninov
The Arena, by Saint Ignatius (I haven't read this, but I should)
My Life in Christ, by Saint John Kronstadt
the Optina Elders series of Saint Herman Press
A Night in the Desert of the Holy Mountain, by Hierotheos Vlachos (he's talking to an anonymous staretz)
Unseen Warfare, by Saint Theophan (and Saint Nikodemos, and Lorenzo Scupoli)
Salt of the Earth, by Father Pavel Florensky

But by the way, there isn't a huge difference between Russian spiritual writers and Greek or Egyptian or whatever. They all point towards the same experience of life within the Holy Trinity.

[David Naess]

Howdy Andrew!

Thank you, that is a very good start.

My priest followed a similar path to my own in order to arrive at orthodoxy. He went to Greece and was ordained in Thessalonica, therefore I assume that he has a good reason for directing me to the Russians rather than the Greeks.

[Andreas Moran]

St Herman Press publish an excellent series of the Elders of Optina.

[Nicolaj]

Dear David!

First be happy to be in Orthodoxy although there is much to learn, a live long as my Bishop explained to me!
I started with The Russian Pilgrim, and from that on I read the Sayings of the Desert Fathers.
And I think your Father is right about the Russian Mystics, they take you very fast in the depth of Orthodoxy.

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

[David Naess]

Thanks Andreas!

Another series that I am looking at is:
"The Acquisition of the Holy Spirit in Russia Series"

I don't know whether this series was brought out by St. Herman's or somebody else. There are at least 7 books in that series, St. Herman's only lists 3.

The one's currently on my list are:

Salt of the Earth,
(The Acquisition of the Holy Spirit in Russia Series; Vol. 2)

Elder Zosima: Hesychast of Serbia
(The Acquisition of the Holy Spirit in Russia Series; Vol. 6)

Interior Silence: Elder Michael: The Last Great Mystic of Valaam
(The Acquisition of the Holy Spirit in Russia Series; Vol. 7)

Father Gerasim of New Valaam
(The Acquisition of the Holy Spirit in Russia Series; Vol. ? )

Elder Melchizedek: Hermit of the Roslavl Forest
(The Acquisition of the Holy Spirit in Russia Series; Vol.? )

[David Naess]

Dear David!

First be happy to be in Orthodoxy although there is much to learn, a live long as my Bishop explained to me!
I started with The Russian Pilgrim, and from that on I read the Sayings of the Desert Fathers.
And I think your Father is right about the Russian Mystics, they take you very fast in the depth of Orthodoxy.

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj
Howdy Nicolaj!

I have been a seeker for about 10 years.

I had been reading a bit of the Desert Fathers as a part of my exploration of mysticism and the apophatic way.

Now I am attempting to change my focus to orthodoxy.

If my initial feelings are correct, I will have the rest of my life to master the art of the study of orthodoxy as a monk someplace.

Voistinu Voskrese! Dave

[Theophrastus]

Coming to orthodoxy via an "easterly route," my priest has concluded that my best course of study (for starts) is to:
READ THE RUSSIAN MYSTICS!

Hello Dave,

Have you written about your "east to East" transition?

[David Naess]

Hello Dave,

Have you written about your "east to East" transition?

Howdy Theophrastus !

Not on this board...

I was taking a course in Hatha Yoga when "something happened"
during the meditation period at the end of class.

I didn't have a clue what it was.
There were no words in the English language that I could use in an
attempt to get a handle on it.

After being dumbfounded for several minutes, my initial response was:

My God!!!
I know "your body is a temple unto the Lord"...
but there is a humongous Cathedral in there!
Since it was a yoga class, I went to Indian philosophy to investigate.
This lead me to Jnana yoga (Yoga of the mind.)
Still, I couldn't figure out what it was. Being of a scientific mindset, I
decided to use the process of elemination. Only after my search was done
did I discover that I had been on a "neti-neti" (not-not) search.

Jnana lead me to a 7 year "neti-neti" search.
My neti-neti search lead me to Advaita Vedanta.
Advaita Vedanta lead me to mysticism.
Mysticism lead me to Unity.

I came to the understanding of "God without attributes"
i.e.; God is not not.

The Tibetans called my case: "Extraordinary enlightenment"
i.e.; "out of sequence" (enlightenment before study.)

On the mystic path I came to a crossroad where I must either
be faithful to my religious heratige or be faithful to my Self.
As soon as I decided to be faithful to Self I started making discoveries...

Negative Theology
The Divine Darkness (very close to my experience!)
The Apophatic Way

All "this stuff" has been in the Christian tradition all along!
It's just been sitting in the attic collecting dust because the
(western) church doesn't like to talk about it.

I decided to remain at my church (Lutheran) and not make waves.
My discovery of "God within myself" lead me to believe that I would
need to remain a "Hindu in the closet" if I wanted to stay within Christianity.

Then I went to a Greek Festival here in Rochester about a month ago.

The church has an Orthodox bookstore. There in front of me were all of the
"remote teachings" that I had been scouring the world to find for more than a decade!

I am a firm believer in the Eastern proverb:
When the student is ready the teacher will appear.

There at The Greek Orthodox Church of the Holy Spirit I met Fr. Patrick.
Father Patrick followed a path that was incredably similar to my own before he came to orthodoxy. Here as last was a teacher who had a working vocabulary that
included all of the words that I had dug up in an attempt to get a handle on
my experience.

The very week that I decided to become Orthodox several programs appeared on Ancient Faith Radio that focused on coming to Orthodoxy from Lutheranism.

Still fearing that I might have to remain a "Hindu in the closet" I found something that showed me that I had, indeed, arrived home: Theosis!

Orthodoxy has taken the "pearl of great price" that I found out of it's pantheistic setting (Hinduism) and put it into a Christian setting for me!

[Theophrastus]

Howdy Theophrastus !

Not on this board...

I was taking a course in Hatha Yoga when "something happened"
during the meditation period at the end of class.

....
Orthodoxy has taken the "pearl of great price" that I found out of it's pantheistic setting (Hinduism) and put it into Christianity for me!

Very interesting! You wouldn't happen to be related to the Norwegian philosopher Arne Naess, would you?

[David Naess]

Very interesting! You wouldn't happen to be related to the Norwegian philosopher Arne Naess, would you?

Probably not...

Naess/Næss/Nass/Ness is a very common Norwegian name.

[Nicolaj]

Howdy Dave!

Thanks for sharing your story in short with us! It is so true that the ways of the Lord are very creative! And that he is a real shepperd, always after his sheep!!

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

[David Naess]

Howdy Nicolaj!

This exercise has been a wonderful opportunity. It has given me a decade to unlearn all of the "theological knowledge" that I have been acquiring over my lifetime and start afresh in the certainty that:

I don't know squat!

Is that what the "Fool for Christ" title that I have been seeing in the Russian stories is all about? I see several references to Russian monastics who are given what appears to be this very high title of honor. The only problem is... the books assume that everybody knows what it means!

Voistinu voskrese! -- Dave

[Theophrastus]

Dave,

Have you listened to Kevin Allen's conversion experience, at The Illumined Heart Podcast (http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illuminedheart/P24/)?


Kevin Allen on Finding Christ in a Hindu Ashram
Posted Sunday, April 08, 2007

Steve McMeans interviews his co-host, Kevin Allen, about his experiences as the novice of a Hindu guru, and his journey to Orthodoxy.

[Olga]

Howdy Nicolaj!

I don't know squat!

Is that what the "Fool for Christ" title that I have been seeing in the Russian stories is all about? I see several references to Russian monastics who are given what appears to be this very high title of honor. The only problem is... the books assume that everybody knows what it means!


Hello Dave

Please bear with me, and I'll post some stuff on Holy Fools. Suffice to say at the moment that it's probably not what you might think it is. BTW, welcome to Orthodoxy.

[David Naess]

Dave,

Have you listened to Kevin Allen's conversion experience, at The Illumined Heart Podcast (http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illuminedheart/P24/)?
Howdy Theophrastus!

No I haven't...

My "guru" was within myself (capital "S" Self from my previous perspective.)

It lead me through Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism and finally to a perusal of many other mystic traditions -- including Native American, Australian Aborigine and the Desert Fathers -- which indicated that there was a "direct personal connection" between a person and the Absolute.

(I like to use the term "the Absolute" rather than "God" because even the term "God" places individual, perceptual constrictions on the concept of "God without attributes.")

Mine was a path of Self-exploration, not being dependent on somebody else's interpretations of my own personal experiences and insights. Although it might be an interesting story, that person was on a totally different path than mine.

As I have come to understand it through Orthodoxy:
capital "S" Self is to self
as "Theosis" is to "me, a poor miserable sinner."

Now that you have whetted my curiosity, guess I'll have to listen to it, eh?

[David Naess]

Dave,

Have you listened to Kevin Allen's conversion experience, at The Illumined Heart Podcast (http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illuminedheart/P24/)?
Just listened to the podcast...

Kevin is talking about one specific branch of Hiduism, Vedantic Monism, which was the path of his guru. Hinduism has a much broader scope. Hinduism covers monism, non-dualism and dualism.

Kevin says "I never read the bible..."
I was in a "learning frenzy" in which I read everything I could get my hands on.


The main steps in my progress were:

I must learn everything -- to
I must learn all of the important stuff -- to
I must learn what is important -- to
Nothing is important.This is where I came to the realization that:
Recognition of the vastness of one's own ignorance
is the first step on the road to true wisdom.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Recognition of the vastness of one's own ignorance is the first step on the road to true wisdom.

Is that somewhat akin to:
The more I learn, the less I know?

This has certainly been my own experience....

[David Naess]

Is that somewhat akin to:
The more I learn, the less I know?

This has certainly been my own experience....
Howdy Herman!

Very much so...
The difference (as I see it) might be that "The more I learn, the less I know" is more of a gradual process whereas "Recognition of the vastness of my own ignorance" was more along the line of a thunderbolt of insight (for me anyway.)

More like: "I don't know anything!" (relatively speaking)
than: "I don't know very much."

The last 3 steps:
I must learn all of the important stuff -- to
I must learn what is important -- to
Nothing is important.

all happened within 5 days or so!

[Herman Blaydoe]

Not to harp or nitpick, but simply to say "I don't know anything" is easy. Once you start seeing how vast "anything" really is, it is indeed humbling. And it just keeps getting bigger and bigger.....

I can only take its vastness in very gradually, but that's just me.

[David Naess]

Howdy Herman!

It's a different kind of "I don't know anything"...

Not the throwing up your hands in frustration -
"I don't know anything"

but

The stop dead in your tracks and remain speechless in awe for several minutes -
"I don't know anything."

That first comes from the realization that everything that you thought you knew was only dogged belief. (Like about 600 years ago when everybody knew that the world was flat!)

BTW: I don't use the words "awe" or "awesome" very often, but when I do, it's a lot more than a cliché!

[Antonios]

Dear brother-in-Christ David,

I must first confess I love the name David because it reminds me of one of God's greatest men to live on this earth. Your name is in honor of the greatest philosopher ever born of a man or women. Some people say his son Solomon was smarter, but as we know, the Son is not greater than the Father! (that one goes out for all the parents here on monachos ;)

The psalms of David are prayers of the heart from a time before the Lord destroyed death by His own death on a cross. Wisdom to match Moses's piety.

Welcome again to monachos. The story of your journey to Christ's Church is very interesting and blessed. Glory be to God for His Providence and Wisdom!

Now that God has revealed Himself to us (in as much as man has the capacity to understand, or ultimately, what God wills man to understand), the ultimate end is not nothing, that is to say, not a cataphatic state, but a totally opposite, entirely positive state of Love. This is theosis. This is True Life. This is knowing our God Who suffers with us, and suffered for us. Who abides is us, and feeds us. Who raises us and saves us. And this is something that we should know at any given moment: that God loves us so much, that He died for us who turn our faces, who shun Him and try to outwit Him. Who drink His blood and then wish for the blood of others. Us sinners who leave Him knocking at the door, so that one day, maybe soon, we might open the door of the casket we call life, so that we might rise with Him and share in His eternal and unutterable love.

This is something in which its profundity and magnitude should never diminish within our nous. And when in the heart, bring us immediately to tears.

There is, after all, no path to salvation that does not go through the cross. And no baptism without water.

Glory to God for all things!

In Christ,
Antonios

[Nicolaj]

(Like about 600 years ago when everybody knew that the world was flat!)


Howdy Dave!

What do you mean by was flat? Isn't it flat any more? And if not, then for what cause it isn't flat, what shape is the new one? Maybe ellipsoidal or sloping?
Please help me!

Your brother Nicolaj

[David Naess]

Howdy Antonios!

Don't get me wrong!

I am not saying that "the ultimate end is nothing..."

What I am saying is that:

Most of what I have learned to date is as nothing!

I have become aware of that fact, swept out the cobwebs, and am
ready to "learn the right stuff."

Dave