Interpreting questions in the book of Ruth

[Paul]

I have read the book of Ruth and would like to understand it a bit better.

I would like to go through it, and if you could answer some of my questions.


And it came to pass when the judges ruled, that there was a famine in the land: and a man went from Bethleem Juda to sojourn in the land of Moab, he, and his wife, and his two sons.

And the man's name was Elimelech, and his wife's name Noemi, and the names of his two sons Maalon and Chelaion, Ephrathites of Bethleem of Juda: and they came to the land of Moab, and remained there.

And Elimelech the husband of Noemi died; and she was left, and her two sons.

- The Book of Ruth (1:1-3)

I would first like to ask, did Elimelech, do any wrong, leaving Bethleem for Moab?
Or remaining there?

[Mary]

I don't know for sure. But I have a guess.

If the Church is like the New Israel, leaving the old one, would've been similar to leaving the Church. So, what he did was wrong, because he wasn't trusting in God to provide for him and his family.

But, God is faithful, and when Naomi comes back, those who faithfully remained in Israel during the famine, welcomed her back, and so did God, by including Ruth in the ancestral line of Jesus Christ.

That's my guess. =)

In Christ,
Mary.

PS - perhaps the death of Elimelech and his two sons, could be the consequence of his choice to leave Israel, trusting in his own wisdom, instead of God's.

[Paul]

And then it goes on to mention his sons.
If this was Elimelech's sin, his sons would not have been guilty of it, would they?

Depends on what age they were does it?
As whether they went with their parents as children, or of their own choice as men.


And they took to themselves wives, women of Moab; the name of the one was Orpha, and the name of the second Ruth; and they dwelt there about ten years.

And both Maalon and Chelaion died also; and the woman was left of her husband and her two sons.

- The Book of Ruth (1:4-5)

They married out of the tribe of Israel, who were to follow the commandments of God.
It does later on mention that Orpha returned to her people and her gods.

What gods and practices did the Moabs follow?

Ruth also was a Moab, but she loved Noemi, as both daughters in law may have.
Maybe Noemi had a great affect on them did she, and greater on Ruth?

Was Noemi the righteous one that Ruth would want to follow her, or Ruth in that she did?
Maybe it was both was it?

But was then Ruth brought up righteously as a Moab?
Or was it that Noemi had the great effect on them, and Ruth submitted to the Love of God, that touched her through Noemi's righteousness, and in then not wanting to leave her?

I notice, even if Elimelech and his sons, did sin, a Moabite women, married a righteous man, she was proved righteous, and became of the tribe of Israel, one proved worthy to be of the righteous lineage of Jesus.

[Paul]

And she rose up and her two daughters-in-law, and they returned out of the country of Moab, for she heard in the country of Moab that the Lord had visited his people to give them bread.

And she went forth out of the place where she was, and her two daughters-in-law with her: and they went by the way to return to the land of Juda.

And Noemi said to her daughter-in-law, Go now, return each to the house of her mother: the Lord deal mercifully with you, as ye have dealt with the dead, and with me.
The Lord grant you that ye may find rest each of you in the house of her husband: and she kissed them; and they lifted up their voice, and wept.

And they said to her, We will return with thee to thy people.

And Noemi said, Return now, my daughters; and why do ye go with me? have I yet sons in my womb to be your husbands?

Turn now, my daughters, for I am too old to be married: for I said, Suppose I were married, and should bear sons;
would ye wait for them till they should be grown? or would ye refrain from being married for their sakes? Not so, my daughters; for I am grieved for you, that the hand of the Lord has gone forth against me.

And they lifted up their voice, and wept again; and Orpha kissed her mother-in-law and returned to her people; but Ruth followed her.

And Noemi said to Ruth, Behold, thy sister-in-law has returned to her people and to her gods; turn now thou also after thy sister-in-law.

- The Book of Ruth (1:6-15)


And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following thee; for whithersoever thou goest, I will go, and wheresoever thou lodgest, I will lodge; thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God.

And wherever thou diest, I will die, and there will I be buried: the Lord do so to me, and more also, if I leave thee, for death only shall divide between me and thee.

- The Book of Ruth (1:16-17)

Surely she must have loved her greatly, she was prepared to follow her anywhere, not to leave her, to leave her own people, family and country, her own religion, and gods, and to follow Noemi's God.
She loved her so, as to never want to leave her, unto death, and even to die at the same place she died, and be buried there.

This is not always so with blood relatives, or even husband and wife, although may make a similar promise, it can all too often be broken.

[Paul]

I wonder if the grief united these women also, for they all lost their husbands, Noemi, even her two sons also.

If they as three women without husbands, without sons, comforted one another and grew closer?

I don't know how long they stayed together though, after her sons died.

But Ruth seemed determined to never leave her, and even Orpha seemed to reluctantly.

[Paul Cowan]

This may be totally wrong, but as everything in the Bible is a precursor to Christ...Is it possible Naomi is this precursor in this story and Orpha and Ruth play out the Jews?

Orpha was the good seed that fell on dry ground and went back into the world and Ruth found the Pearl of Great Price and sold (left) all she had to obtain it?

Just a thought. Perhaps this does not carry through the entire book of Ruth but only this portion of the story.
Paul

[Mary]

I haven't read any historical writings of the periods, so I don't know what the Moabites worshiped, etc. However, I do like to track things down in the Bible, and I was quite surprised to find out where Moab had it's beginnings. Read the story in Gen. 19:30-36.

The sons - they must've been at least old enough to walk on their own. It says they died after they'd been in Moab for 10 yrs (Ruth 1:4), so, if they were about 20 when they got married, they'd have been about 10 when they went to Moab - definitely not old enough to stay on their own in Israel while Dad and Mom left for Moab. But the Bible does say, that children suffer the consequences of their parents' bad choices.

This is true even in the physical world - if a mother is an alcoholic or a drug addict or has plain old, any kind of bad habits, the children are born unhealthy and grow up unhealthy. She doesnt' actively have to teach them lousy habits, that's all they know, so that's what they'll do. That's a huge responsibility for the parents!! You can be sure the kids will do what you do, and NOT what you say they should do!

It's hard for me to understand the relationship between Naomi and her daughters-in-law, for I've never had a deep relationship with an older woman. Something that was pointed out once, and that really stuck with me was Naomi's own description of herself:
"Don't call me Naomi," she told them. "Call me Mara*, because the Almighty has made my life very bitter. I went away full, but the LORD has brought me back empty. Why call me Naomi? The LORD has afflicted me; the Almighty has brought misfortune upon me." Ruth 1:20-21 (*Mara means Bitter and Naomi means Pleasant).

She says that in front of Ruth. Ruth, who had just sacrificed everything she had, to follow Naomi to a strange people and a strange God. Doens't sound like Naomi was very thankful for Ruth's sacrifice! She only lamented her own emptiness... How about Ruth, who had also lost her husband, and voluntarily lost everything else?

Naomi was bitter. She was angry with God. The good Seed that was planted in Ruth's heart, had more to do with God's grace than Naomi's magnetic personality.

Forgive me. Sounds like I'm getting sarcastic here.

In Christ,
Mary.

[Paul Cowan]

Naomi was bitter. She was angry with God.

"Call me Mara*, because the Almighty has made my life very bitter.

These two quotes don't line up together. For her life to be bitter is not necessarily for her to be bitter. See Job. He was aware the Lord had "taken", but he did not accuse God of unrighteousness. Nor does Naomi. She is just stating the situation.
I went away full, but the LORD has brought me back empty.

Remember back then generations lived within the same house. It is not as we have it here when someone gets old we warehouse them in old folks homes. The love people developed for each other was partly due to proximity. The hardships and successes are felt by all in the house. So Ruth did not need to be swayed by Naomi's personality as she "became" Ruth's mother living in the house.
Go now, return each to the house of her mother:



Doens't sound like Naomi was very thankful for Ruth's sacrifice!

Here again, I think Naomi was trying to forewarn Ruth about the hardships she was about to face. She actually tried to keep her from the trials she knew she would encounter as an alien to her native people. They were quite severe to outsiders.

Its one thing losing a spouse whom you love for X number of years. (I don't recall Orpha nor Ruth being married very long to her sons) I think Naomi felt a little more grief losing her birth children and husband of many many more years. That said, it sounds to me Naomi was showing love and compassion for trying to save Ruth from herself by coming with her.

Paul

[Paul]

I went out full, and the Lord has brought me back empty: and why call ye me Noemi, whereas the Lord has humbled me and the Mighty One has afflicted me?
- The Book of Ruth (1:21)

I don't think Noemi was bitter against God either.

I think as we see she is talking how the Lord God dealt to her.
To lose your husband and two children, it was a bitter experience.
What else can describe it, it must have been one of sorrow and grief.

But such experiences can work to healing many who go through this.
I think it did on this occasion.
For her two daughter in laws did love her, and they were of another tribe.
I don't think it was what the Jews were suppose to do was it?

I thought Moab was that same place with that strange story of Lot and his daughters.
I think I've heard it mentioned elsewhere also.

But I do think God's love worked in Noemi, Ruth and Orpha.

I think grief and sorrow can be very humbling, and to our good.
I'm sure Noemi, was very grieved, humbled, but I didn't see her as a bitter woman.
Why would she have gone back to Israel if she was?

She could have remained with both her daughter in laws, in Moab.
I don't know what the custom would have been.
But maybe they could have remarried Moabs and stil looked after Noemi.

And she did say in (1:8)

And Noemi said to her daughter-in-law, Go now, return each to the house of her mother: the Lord deal mercifully with you, as ye have dealt with the dead, and with me.

It's not the talk of one who was bitter, she said He had dealt merciful with her.
She didn't curse Him in any way.

I'm curious to what she meant by the dead, was she talking of her husband and sons?

It maybe that the husband, and two sons did wrong, but It maybe even good came out of this.
As I beleive does happen with God, He doesn't just punish us and desert us.
I beleive He works on healing our sinful souls.

It maybe that the husband and sons did wrong, but even they may have come to repentence, been granted mercy in their own deaths, on their deathbeds maybe?

Also the soul of Ruth, surely did that excel, and I beleive that of Noemi's.
The story of Ruth and Noemi, surely is one of peity, at least a growth to it, in both of them isn't it?

It is a growing and healing process isn't it, in most our lives?

And weren't they both faithful to the love of God in the end, and even greatly rewarded for it?

Maybe it is Ruth's peity the story seems to focus on isn't it?

Who is suppose to have written this book?

Would Ruth have stood out a bit, that people would ask of her?
Would there have been that many converts and such a pious account?

It was surely a story told for generations, even thousands of years later all over the world.

[Paul Cowan]

I'm curious to what she meant by the dead, was she talking of her husband and sons?

Yes I think she was talking of them. Perhaps being merciful to the bodies and memory of the dead? Rather than burning the bodies or desecrating them but treating them with respect after death. This may not have been the custom of the Moabites.



Maybe it is Ruth's peity the story seems to focus on isn't it?


yes, It teaches us that even we "aliens" can be united with the body of Christ. Look at His own lineage. From murders, harlots, aliens to the Theotokos. What better way to show what types of people can come to Him than showing us His lineage?

This from a PC study Bible forum from this website (http://www.studybibleforum.com/spages/Ruth.htm).
According to Talmudic tradition Samuel wrote the book of Ruth but the book contains no clue as to who truly wrote it. The favored opiniion is that it was written between the tenth to the eighth century BC during the period of the Monarchy. However one source (Life Application Bible) put it between 1375-1050 BC.


Would Ruth have stood out a bit, that people would ask of her?

Yes, I think so as Jews and Moabites did not dress the same, speak the same or "look" the same. I am sure she stood out dramatically especially in acting out daily socially acceptable customs Naomi may not have educated her on. I find her behavior is explained far superior to the other women her age. Do not the "goodie goodies" not get noticed as much as the "bad girls"? Would not the older women who's job (I believe) to find daughters for their sons not be looking at all the possible prospects, especially those of good report?

Just as the men of the city hung out around the city gates and discussed "serious" matters, I am sure the women of the city had ther gossip hang outs too.

Paul

[Paul]

Then Noemi seeing that Ruth was steadfastly determined to go with her, would not be against it, nor persuade her any more to return to her friends:
And they went both of them until they came to Bethleem: and it came to pass, when they arrived at Bethleem, that all the city rang with them, and they said, Is this Noemi?

- The Book of Ruth (1:18-19)

They remembered Noemi then.
And It says later, that Boaz was an aquitence of her husband.

Do you think the people made a commotion about her return, in that they maybe reviled her having left, or that they were genually happy of their return, or could it maybe have differed among them?

[Paul]

And she said to them, Nay, do not call me Noemi; call me 'Bitter,' for the Mighty One has dealt very bitterly with me.
I went out full, and the Lord has brought me back empty: and why call ye me Noemi, whereas the Lord has humbled me and the Mighty One has afflicted me?

- The Book of Ruth (1:20-21)

What does she mean she went out full?
Is it that they left with food?
Was she talking of her family, having husband and children?

And then being brought back empty, was she talking of her husband and children?
She had food in Moab didn't she.
But in losing her husband and sons, were they maybe now in poverty, ecspecially now back in Bethleem, for would her daughters in law's family maybe have helped them, and they may have been able to remarry there?

[Paul]

So Noemin and Ruth the Moabitess, her daughter-in-law, returned from the country of Moab; and they came to Bethleem in the beginning of barley harvest.
And Naomi had a kinsman of her husband's, a mighty man of wealth, of the family of Elimelech; and his name was Boaz.
And Ruth the Moabitess said to Noemin, Let me go now to the field, and I will glean among the ears behind the man with whomsoever I shall find favour: and she said to her, Go, daughter.
And she went; and came and gleaned in the field behind the reapers; and she happened by chance to come on a portion of the land of Booz, of the kindred of Elimelech.

- The Book of Ruth (1:22-2:3)

This was God's doing wasn't it, that it happened to be the field of Boaz's?

I suppose all things are in some way are they?
As there is no such thing as luck is there?

What do Orthodox beleive on luck?

[Herman Blaydoe]

"Luck" is NOT an Orthodox concept.

[Father David Moser]

"Luck" is NOT an Orthodox concept.

We rely rather on God's providence.

Fr David Moser

[Paul Cowan]

Dear Paul,

You are asking alot of questions that I doubt any of us know the answer to. Specifically how things were back then. No one can tell us the inner mind set of the a person and how the community related to them when they returned other than what scripture tells us. Much of what remains a mystery is that the times have changed and I doubt many know of the true customs of the people back then.

Here is a NON Orthodox fictional book on the Book of Ruth. You might find it interesting. It will in a fairy tale world answer some of your relationship questions yet also stay on track of how the Book of Ruth is played out in the Bible. It is titled Ruth A Novel (http://www.amazon.com/Ruth-Novel-Lois-T-Henderson/dp/0915684918)by Lois T. Henderson.

Ms. Henderson also writes about several other Biblical women. I have read a couple of her books and found them quite enjoyable. They bring to life what is wrapped in mystery. Accuracy may not be there, but her way of descriptions sure fills in some holes.

Paul