Unbelieving friends

[Adrian Martin]

I associate with a group of friends that I met in college. Since one of them left for Seattle, we don't hang out in person very much, but we still chat online.

You see, I have a rather thin skin, and so my friends are apt to tease me. They casually make vulgar remarks and mock my religion. How should I deal with this? Ignore them? Pray for them (although really, this goes without saying)?

Honestly, sometimes I despair of them, although I ought to see myself as a greater sinner and not judge them. I feel like they are so entrenched in a certain modern mindset that the Grace of God will never be able to touch them. I know that is probably not the right thing to think but that's how I feel...

[Mourad Mankarios]

Perhaps, unknowingly you have been too complicit in their insults. I'm sure that if they were truly your friends and you had expressed to them how offended you were at their comments then they would refrain from continuing to do so.

Perhaps you can also explain to them how important and precious your faith is to you. This in itself can be a door or an opening for missionary or evangelisation. But there is no need to be preachy. Just be honest and genuine and express the impact your faith and belief has had on your own life.

Let them know that just like they wouldn't appreciate you or any other person insulting something or someone of value to them you would appreciate the same level of respect.

Let us know how you go...

BTW

Never despair of any person or of any person's salvation. Who would have thought that a person who mass murdered and imprisoned Christians, St Paul, would have one day been a core individual in spreading that same name he had once worked so hard to stamp out. Who would have thought that a murderer, rapist and thief, St Moses the Black, would have been a monk and the leader of a monastic community. Who would have that a prostitute, St Mary the Egyptian, would have become a great saint in the church. Who would have thought that an arrogant, proud and sensual philosopher, St Augustine, would have become a Bishop and pen soem of the most profound Christian literature ever composed. Who would have ever thought. O for the grace and mystery of God. I'm glad that there is someone in this world who would never despair even if all the rest of the world might.

In most cases the problem is with the messenger rather than the recipient of the message. Therefore, pray to God that He may show you where your failure is. In the Coptic liturgy of St Gregory the theologian, the priest prays and says, "Do not deprive Your people of the grace of Your Holy Spirit because of my numerous sins and the defilements of my heart."

[Adrian Martin]

In most cases the problem is with the messenger rather than the recipient of the message. Therefore, pray to God that He may show you where your failure is. In the Coptic liturgy of St Gregory the theologian, the priest prays and says, "Do not deprive Your people of the grace of Your Holy Spirit because of my numerous sins and the defilements of my heart."

Thank you, friend. I am a passive person, and often I'm reluctant to speak my mind if something is offending me. This oftentimes invites others to continue doing whatever they're doing with impunity. I'm reminded of a prayer in the Jordanville prayerbook: "Save, O Lord, and have mercy on them that hate and wrong me, and let them not perish because of me, a sinner." If I should pray this for those who are my enemies, I should feel the exact same way towards my dear friends.

[Paul Cowan]

Dear Adrian,

I also concur with Mourad's advice about telling them how it makes you feel. I understand passive agressive tendencies also. If it will give you strength to comment to your friends how you feel about their comments, use us as the scape goats. How many times have I "blamed" my wife (with her permission of course) to get out of doing something I otherwise would have done for not wanting to cause a conflict?

You have 2000 years of the church and its martyrs to fall back on. You are in good company. Remember the martyrs of yesterday stood up to their persecutors before they were martyred. Those that did not stand up for their faith were not given this crown of victory.

Now I will go and try to take my own advise.

Paul

[Olympiada]

I associate with a group of friends that I met in college. Since one of them left for Seattle, we don't hang out in person very much, but we still chat online.

You see, I have a rather thin skin, and so my friends are apt to tease me. They casually make vulgar remarks and mock my religion. How should I deal with this? Ignore them? Pray for them (although really, this goes without saying)?

Honestly, sometimes I despair of them, although I ought to see myself as a greater sinner and not judge them. I feel like they are so entrenched in a certain modern mindset that the Grace of God will never be able to touch them. I know that is probably not the right thing to think but that's how I feel...
I would disassociate from them and pray for them until you can gain some perspective and figure out what to do next. I would also tell them that their behavior is offensive to you. You have every right to stand up for your rights as a Christian and tell them to respect you. You are not responsible for them, God is. Have faith that God will work things out on his time table.

[Vera L.]

In addition to what everyone else has said here, I think it is important to have a good number of close Orthodox friends. These friends understand you much more than non-Orthodox friends do and can support you if you have these sorts of problems.

Also I have a huge group of friends who are non-Orthodox and I have never felt the need to isolate myself from them. I just try to explain to them the importance of Church and Orthodoxy to my life and they have come to understand me in their own way. (Anyway for most people in Western society today understand the concept of discrimmination and human rights and therefore in their eyes should really not be treating you in such a way).

I completely understand where you are coming from though, Adrian. It really is hard and I hope God gives all of us who have these hardships strength to endure.

In Christ,
Vera

[Effie Ganatsios]

In addition to what everyone else has said here, I think it is important to have a good number of close Orthodox friends. These friends understand you much more than non-Orthodox friends do and can support you if you have these sorts of problems.
Also I have a huge group of friends who are non-Orthodox and I have never felt the need to isolate myself from them. I just try to explain to them the importance of Church and Orthodoxy to my life and they have come to understand me in their own way. .................
In Christ,
Vera

I agree with Vera, Adrian. Let me just add that your friends are not your responsibility. Tell them quietly one by one that you feel uncomfortable with their teasing. Friends are valuable. Don't neglect them but at the same time, perhaps through your church, find new Orthodox friends. I have a very special friend that I don't discuss religion with and that's OK because I love her and she loves me. But, recently I found a new friend who is a joy to be with. We talk about our faith and her insights are so wonderful. She has a very hard life but she is so committed to God that nothing upsets her or stops her. She told me something very strange just after we met. She loves walking and would often climb our little hill and pass my house. She said that she always knew somehow that at some point we would become friends. She didn't know exactly how she knew this but she was certain of it.

Don't lose faith. Find people you are comfortable with, people that understand you and your faith. Life is too short to become upset with what other people say or do.

I'm praying for you.

Effie

[Amy]

Adrian,

Pleasant greetings to you.

You wrote:

You see, I have a rather thin skin, and so my friends are apt to tease me. They casually make vulgar remarks and mock my religion. How should I deal with this? Ignore them? Pray for them (although really, this goes without saying)?

Dear Adrian- friends do not casually make vulgar remarks and mock your religion.

Even though you may be their closest light of Christ in this world, I would not call those who abuse my spirit a "friend" , it is too weighty an appellation.

You are obviously on a different path now...how fortunate for these who would mock you! Yes, pray for them and remember that you are blessed when you suffer for righteousness sake. Forgive me, I cannot quote exactly, but one of the Church Fathers has said, 'acquire the spirit of peace and thousands around you will be saved'

If you struggle with how to defend your faith in their presence, and your contact is primarily online, why not create a journal/blog expressing your views on faith and living for Christ? Then you avoid a one-on-one confrontation, yet by directing them to your blog, they will know where you stand.

As you strive on the Orthodox path, surround yourself with those who would lift you up, encourage and pray with you, and offer wise counsel - then you will probably find more who are worthy to be called "friend".

Blessings to you!

[Demetrios]

I associate with a group of friends that I met in college. Since one of them left for Seattle, we don't hang out in person very much, but we still chat online.

You see, I have a rather thin skin, and so my friends are apt to tease me. They casually make vulgar remarks and mock my religion. How should I deal with this? Ignore them? Pray for them (although really, this goes without saying)?

Honestly, sometimes I despair of them, although I ought to see myself as a greater sinner and not judge them. I feel like they are so entrenched in a certain modern mindset that the Grace of God will never be able to touch them. I know that is probably not the right thing to think but that's how I feel...

I think it's best to not tell anyone that your an Orthodox Christian. Don't be like the Pharisees that show they are fasting. Always try to be normal. Once we show that you are doing something different. People may take offense because they may think that you are being conceded or that your better than they are. If you feel the grace of god working in you. Do not display it as a trophy. People will see it through your works.

[Vera L.]

I think it's best to not tell anyone that your an Orthodox Christian. Don't be like the Pharisees that show they are fasting. Always try to be normal. Once we show that you are doing something different. People may take offense because they may think that you are being conceded or that your better than they are. If you feel the grace of god working in you. Do not display it as a trophy. People will see it through your works.

Please forgive me, Demetrios, but I have to disagree here. Though one should never be proud and try to prove to everyone that one is Orthodox Christian and as a result better than others, I think it is important that the people you associate with (whether they are Orthodox or not) know that you are Christian and Orthodox.

My non-Orthodox friends (some of whom are atheist) all know that I (try) to fast and that I go to Church on Saturdays and Sundays. They accept that that is what i do. Friends should respect you. If they do not respect your faith then (I think) they are not truly your friends.
And why should we try to act "normal" when we are not the same as people who are Orthodox. We have different views on the world and different ways of living.

Though again I repeat this does not mean "showing off" your Orthodoxy. But I don't think it should be "hidden" so that one "fits in" to society.

Forgive me. I hope i am not offending by disagreeing.
In Christ,
Vera

[Theopesta]

Mr. Adreian, I'd appreciate your straight mind. You will find many people around u adore your attitudes, do not let any one change your peaceful mind.
In One Christ

[Effie Ganatsios]

Adrian,

Pleasant greetings to you.

You wrote:


Dear Adrian- friends do not casually make vulgar remarks and mock your religion.



As you strive on the Orthodox path, surround yourself with those who would lift you up, encourage and pray with you, and offer wise counsel - then you will probably find more who are worthy to be called "friend".

Blessings to you!

I have already posted my reply but rereading this thread I have to agree with Amy here. Friends definitely do not "make vulgar remarks and mock your religion." The close friend I mentioned does not agree with me concerning religion but she does respect me and my beliefs. If she mocked me or made vulgar remarks then I would seriously consider whether she was indeed a "friend" even though we have been close for over 30 years now. Friends respect each other.

Adrian, have faith in yourself and your beliefs. Amy has given you good advice - " surround yourself with those who would lift you up, encourage and pray with you, and offer wise counsel - then you will probably find more who are worthy to be called "friend"."


Effie

[Mary James]

I can relate to your situation with your unbelieving friends, and I didn't know what to do with my connection with them. While I was thinking about the situation, I opened the book called, "Matericon". This book contains the instructions of Abba Isaiah to the Nun Theodora. I found my answer on one of the pages, and this is what I read:

"Friendship is great and honorable-but only if it is spiritual. Run from the one who wants to destroy your soul as from the devil himself. Believe me, in these days there is hardly anyone-due to the captivating age of your youth-who would (genuinely) desire to become a spiritual friend to you, except Sweetest Jesus Christ God. Besides, what need is it to have friendships with those who cannot in the least help you on the day of your death, or the Judgment? Push aside everyone, the little and the great, and cleave to Sweetest Jesus our God Who is able to help you both at the hour of death and on the day of Judgment; and, what is more, He can give you the never ending Kingdom. The Apostle Paul says: The world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world (Gal. 6:14). So choose the better, as one who is wise and sensible."

I realized that my unbelieving friends were only spiritually hurting me. So I keep my distance now and try to remember them in my prayers.
If you feel that your friends are hurting you spiritually too, perhaps it's best for you to keep a distance for now as well.

Let me quote St. Anthony of Optina as well, "If you hang around with morons, you will become a moron".

[Ken McRae]

I associate with a group of friends that I met in college. Since one of them left for Seattle, we don't hang out in person very much, but we still chat online.

You see, I have a rather thin skin, and so my friends are apt to tease me. They casually make vulgar remarks and mock my religion. How should I deal with this? Ignore them? Pray for them (although really, this goes without saying)?

Honestly, sometimes I despair of them, although I ought to see myself as a greater sinner and not judge them. I feel like they are so entrenched in a certain modern mindset that the Grace of God will never be able to touch them. I know that is probably not the right thing to think but that's how I feel...

Your situation feels very familiar to me, as one I have struggled with too, for many years. There is no doubt that St. Anthony of Optina is correct, concerning the associates you must choose as your "inner circle" of friends. Do not sit at the same table as the enemy, unless you're there in obedience to God, and for Him.

On the other hand, does that mean you must run away from such persons who mock and make fun of your way of life. We must not lose sight of the fact that Our Lord had a reputation of associating with "harlots and publicans." He befriended them. But why, is the question? We must be clear about this.

Well, "they that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick." (Mt. 9:12) These words afford us a window into the heart of Jesus and his reason for "befriending" harlots and publicans. Is that your reason for befriending them? Or is there another reason for it?

You must be clear about your "reason(s)," or you will never be able to make any progress in the right direction, concerning this. Is your intention to be a "witness" of the transforming power of the gospel? Then you must consciously work and ply yourself with that end in mind, whenever such occasions and trials present themselves.

Are you there as a "fisher of men?" Then you must learn how to sink the hook and reel in the catch. If "the game" is too hard to catch, due to a lack of certain skills, then you must move on and find other game easier to catch. Big game hunters usually start out small, and gradually work up to the biggest game of all.

Learn to pick fights you can win. Never lose sight of the plain fact that we are at all times engaged in a spiritual battle against the evil powers of darkness; and that the children of wrath are all around us, and subject to demonic possessions, at any given second, and used to wage war against you in a plethora of ways. Though we must be as gentle as doves, yet we must become knowledgable of the wiles of satan, in order that we may become conquerors through Christ.

Learn to dress yourself up every morning in the full armour of God; and learn the principles of spiritual warfare; and acquire skill as a fighter. The norm for good fighters is that they must lose many fights before getting good. Very few are "natural-born" fighters. Still, you must never lose sight of the enemy.

You are passive, and that is a good thing, but you must learn to be aggressive against the forces of darkness all around you; or they will devour you. You must accept this. The kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. We must learn to apply a heavenly force in all situations, with discernment; and a holy vigilance or wakefulness.

You are right that you should not judge others, but rather pray for God to forgive them, as our Lord prayed for those who crucified him. In one sense you must learn to ignore, or turn a blind eye to much that goes on around you; and much that you are a witness too, but that does'nt require letting down your guard to satan's attacks.

Never forget that you are at war with the kingdom of darkness, and her inhabitants may be of our own household, and inner circle. Judas the devil is the clasic example of that; and so we must become very skillful under those conditions, for it is then that satan's true subtletly is being plied against us. The point is, that there is never a second when you can safely let down your guard.

Are you letting your guard down around these friends that mock and tease you? If you're easy prey, satan will surely take advantage of it! Still, the way to fight back is not like the way those of the world fight back. You must learn to "bless those who curse you." Do you have any skill at it? It is not so easy a thing as it might first appear, at a distance. Real skill is only acquired by the suffering of many wrongs and temptations.

The point is, you must learn to consciously carry your cross into every situation; that you may sanctify the trials of your faith, and turn a spiritual profit from them. The cross is the supreme sign of love for a lost world. Never let down the cross, while your so-called family and "friends" are trying to nail you to it." Do not resist, but freely invite your crucifixion and thank God for it all. It's the Way.

The Way of the Cross and holy martyrdom is what lies ahead of us, for all who would save their souls in these last days. If we cannot suffer being mocked and teased, how shall we ever lay down our life in holy martyrdom when we are called to that? This is not to say we are to lay down our guard against the evil forces. Obviously.

It is one thing to willingly lay ourselves down upon the cross, and quite another to harbour no hatred and bitterness toward them who are nailing us to it. And if there is one thing else I would stress it is the critical need for patient endurance. We must endure trials with patience, or else we shall never come to know the peace of God which passeth all understanding. Patience, patience, patience!