Forty days liturgy

[Marie A.]

A Greek friend recently told me about the 40 days Liturgy that begins on November 15th. I read a little about it but am unable to find much information. She told me to write a monastery and give them a list of names since my Church does not do this. Is this only a practice of the Greek Church? Is it mostly done only in monasteries now? I would appreciate any information about it.

Peace to all in Christ and the Panagia,
Marie

[Nina]

Yes, I know this too and it is so wonderful that monasteries do it, since my parish here does not have 40 Liturgies either. I have read that 40 Liturgies are very beneficial for the departed souls (especially) and for those living. I think Elder Joseph the Hesychast writes about it, but I have to check my books where I read it. As we know also Christ fasted and prayed for 40 days in the desert. Therefore I do not think it is only Greek tradition as you may see also here (http://www.answers.com/topic/sorokoust). I know that in the past people could have (sponsor?) Liturgies and they arranged it with the priest, but I am not very sure about the practices today in this country because it is different in my jurisdiction even between two different cities I have lived.

Here is a quote about forty Liturgies for the departed from this link (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/death/excerpts_death.aspx).


Most definitely arrange at once for the serving of the forty-day memorial, that is, daily commemoration at the Liturgy for the course of forty days. Usually, in churches where there are daily services, the deceased whose funerals have been served there are commemorated for forty days and longer. But if the funeral is in a church where there are no daily services, the relatives themselves should take care to order the forty-day memorial wherever there are daily services. It is likewise good to send contributions for commemoration to monasteries, as well as to Jerusalem, where there is constant prayer at the holy places. But the forty-day memorial must he begun immediately after death, when the soul is especially in need of help in prayer, and therefore one should begin commemoration in the nearest place where there are daily services.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

A Greek friend recently told me about the 40 days Liturgy that begins on November 15th. I read a little about it but am unable to find much information. She told me to write a monastery and give them a list of names since my Church does not do this. Is this only a practice of the Greek Church? Is it mostly done only in monasteries now? I would appreciate any information about it.

Peace to all in Christ and the Panagia,
Marie

I don't know about a practice of the 40 days Liturgy only from Nov 15. (somehow this would be connected to the Nativity Fast I guess). Is this a Greek practice?

In Russian practice the 40 days Liturgy or Sorokoust can be done for the living or departed at any time of the year. One gives in the names at a particular parish or monastery often accompanied by a donation. A number of monasteries in Russia do ask for a specific amount per name per time. During this time these names would be read at the Proskomedia for the Liturgy.

In present day Russia the '40 days' or 'sorokoust' can be for as many days as you want and as many days as you are willing to donate money for.

It could be that in the past a Sorokoust was for a specific departed person with their name mentioned out loud during the Liturgy and a Litany for the Departed done for them. This is not so in most cases at least in modern Russia probably because there are too many people asking for people to be prayed for among the living and departed.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Father David Moser]

I don't know about a practice of the 40 days Liturgy only from Nov 15. (somehow this would be connected to the Nativity Fast I guess). Is this a Greek practice?

In Russian practice the 40 days Liturgy or Sorokoust can be done for the living or departed at any time of the year.

The difference may simply be a difference in practice regarding how often the liturgy is offered. Russian monastic practice seems to lean towards the full cycle of daily services, including Liturgy, whenever possible whereas I get the impression that in Greek monastic practice there is less emphasis at least on the liturgy, and thus it is only celebrated on particular days. Now I am completely inexperienced when it comes to Greek monastic practice - I only know and deduce from what I've read here and elsewhere - thus I may be radically in error, however this is the impression that I seem to get.

Fr David Moser

[Nina]

I don't know about a practice of the 40 days Liturgy only from Nov 15. (somehow this would be connected to the Nativity Fast I guess). Is this a Greek practice? In Russian practice the 40 days Liturgy or Sorokoust can be done for the living or departed at any time of the year. One gives in the names at a particular parish or monastery often accompanied by a donation. A number of monasteries in Russia do ask for a specific amount per name per time. During this time these names would be read at the Proskomedia for the Liturgy.
In present day Russia the '40 days' or 'sorokoust' can be for as many days as you want and as many days as you are willing to donate money for.

No, I do not think it is a Greek practice to have 40 Liturgies only during this time. As you may see even in Russian the name for 40 Liturgies has its root from Greek: saranta=40.

There are churches/monasteries in Greece which have always Liturgy. In Greece we also have saints like the Saint (Papa) Nicholas Plannas who served "an unbroken string of 50+ years of daily Divine Liturgy". So it depends on the priest, or his availability. Here in US I do not know because many things are changed and such tradition is not followed probably for many reasons (although there might be places that do), but in Greece you also can have whenever you wish 40 Liturgies.

The connection they make with the Nativity fast and the Lent is that people fast and attend more often church during these times. That is why people are invited to send names. But also we are supposed to give alms when we fast so I guess all these are some of the reasons that we hear more about 40 Liturgies during fasting.

Father Raphael you say:


A number of monasteries in Russia do ask for a specific amount per name per time.Can you please tell us what that specific amount is please?

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Nina asked:



Father Raphael you say:


A number of monasteries in Russia do ask for a specific amount per name per time.

Can you please tell us what that specific amount is please?

There isn't any specific amount. Although in Russia they use roubles while in Ukraine it's grivna. It's interesting to see the person at the candle desk where you write out and then hand in your names to be remembered flying through the abacus working out the amount. The use of the abacus is still a real art in these countries.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Nina]

Nina asked:

There isn't any specific amount. Although in Russia they use roubles while in Ukraine it's grivna. It's interesting to see the person at the candle desk where you write out and then hand in your names to be remembered flying through the abacus working out the amount. The use of the abacus is still a real art in these countries.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

Interesting. I asked because we (in my tradition) are never asked for an amount, or even money at all if we give names for commemoration (but of course it is different when sponsoring a Liturgy, or offering oil, Holy Bread and wine). Since we are never told about money I just talk to friends and pious ladies from church here and they tell me privately what they do when, but other than that I never heard a church, or monastery asking for a specific amount per name and per time. But while reading something for the other thread about the departed souls, I see that St. Symeon the New Theologian said that whatever the person wishes and can afford to offer is good.

[Sherman Cheung]

FROM THE COUNSELS OF ELDER CLEOPA:
Commemoration at Forty Divine Liturgies:

I want to relate a story to you. France was Orthodox until the year
1054, as was Italy, for until that time all countries were of ONE faith.
The Roman Catholics (Papists/Vatican Religion) separated from us in
1054, in the great papal schism when our Church was torn apart because
of papal reforms.

Before that time, there was a priest in France (which was still
Orthodox) who had a brother in the military. The French were at war
with the Mauritanians. Mauritania is what we refer to as French Africa,
right on the other side of the Gibraltar, toward Liberia. At one time it
was a Kingdom. So the French were there fighting against the
Mauritanians, on the other side of Gibraltar, in Africa.

The French priest’s brother went to Mauritania with his military
regiment. At that time war wasn’t like it is now with atomic bombs and
planes , canons and guns; then they fought with Swords, like in the days
of Stephen the Great1, with swords and arrows.

The French thus went into Mauritania to fight this great battle between
the European armies and those in Africa. Even though the French won the
battle, many of their soldiers were captured by the Mauritanians,
amongst whom was the priest’s brother. The priest was from Marseilles, a
French port which is on the Mediterranean Sea.

The priest did not know that his brother had fallen prisoner, and when
the other soldiers returned to France at the end of the war, he asked
them, “Have you seen my brother?” “Father, I think he died in all the
carnage of the battle. Bodies were laying like tree stumps –The Battle
was so bad- and I think that he died, poor man.”

The priest, with a BROTHER’S LOVE, decided to serve the Divine Liturgy
for Forty days in which he specifically commemorated his Brother.
However, the priest’s brother was not dead, but rather a prisoner, and
he was bound with chains in a prison with many others who were also
chained.

The priest would be serving Divine Liturgy at about 10:00 in the
morning, and at that exact time all the chains would fall off of his
brother, leaving him completely free.

The other prisoners said, “What is happening with you? Why do those
Chains fall off of you? Are you some kind of wizard?”

“No, I don’t know anything about magic stuff.”
“Yeah right!, You don’t know magic!”
All of his chains would break and fall off every day at 10:00. The
guards would chain him again and the next day the chains would break and
fall. Another set of chains, and another set broken like dust.
“This Guy is a real Wizard! He’ll just walk out of prison when he wants,
look, the chains can’t hold him!”

No One understood what was going on, and they would ask Him,
“What kind of magic do you have? Do you have some magical amulet hidden
in your shirt or in your pants?”
Saying this, the guards would strip him of his clothes. “Tie me up
naked, if you don’t believe me!”
They did exactly that, and the next day, the chains would again fall off
of him. The guards were baffled and asked each other, “Where does he
hide his magic? If we knew how to do what he does, we could escape from
anywhere!, “Now where do you hide your magic?” He insisted, “I don’t
know magic.”

“Then what religion are you?” they asked, since they were all Moslems.

“I am a Christian. I believe in Christ. I don’t know any incantations
because I believe otherwise. My brother is a priest in my homeland of
France, and I think that he is serving the Liturgy now and removes a
particle for me at Proskomedia, thinking that I am dead. If I WERE dead
and in hell, I would be unbound even there, like I am here. I think this
is what is happening, but I don’t even know for sure.”

“How long is this going to happen to you?”
“Our practice is to serve forty Liturgies. You will see that for these
forty days, the chains fall off of me.”
“After that, what will happen?”
“I don’t know what will happen, except that I will be delivered from
your hands.”
“How? You won’t slip out of our hands!”
“I believe that God would deliver me even if I were in hell, thanks to
the forty Liturgies; and he will certainly deliver me from your hands
here.”
“You’ll see what kind of supervision we put you under then!”
The guards figured out when the Forty days would be up, and did not put
chains on the Man during that time, “It’s useless to chain him because
during these forty days they just break apart and fall off of him!”

On the Fortieth day, they were all keeping watch over him. They put
double bars on the doors, bound him in chains again, and set a guard
just for him, “Don’t take your eyes off of him. Today is the fortieth
day and he claims that he will leave here!”

As the guards were watching him, suddenly they beheld that the roof of
the prison split open and a hand descended, took the prisoner by the
hair of his head, and he was gone.

Where did he go? He was deposited on the porch of his house in
Marseilles within a moment from the time he was lifted out of prison.

The Guards were asked, “What Happened!?”
“Christ came. We saw a hand,” (They did not know that it was the angel
of the Lord, not Christ himself.) “He snatched the prisoner from us and
we fell down trembling. No one could have even grabbed him by the foot.”
“How did he get out?”
“Through the roof of the prison, and then it closed back up again.”
One of the guards said, “Do you see how powerful the Christian faith is?
Do you see the strength of their Christ? It didn’t matter how much you
guarded him, but he took him when He wanted!”
When the priest saw his brother, he said “My Brother! You have come
home!, They told me you died. Today I finished serving the fortieth
Liturgy in which I removed a particle for your soul.”
The former prisoner said, “You did the right thing, Brother, for if I
had been in hell, you would have delivered me from there. Since I was
still on Earth, you brought me out of prison. May God reward you. Listen
to what happened to me…” and he proceeded to tell his brother about the
chains.
So you see how strong those prayers are during the forty Liturgies when
one is remembered at the Proskomedia.


There is another example of a miracle in connection with the forty
Liturgies. An elderly Hieromonk who was an abbot had a disciple who was
not very obedient.
The elder frequently told him, “Be obedient my son, or you will suffer
eternal torments.”
But the disobedient disciple still did not follow the counsel of the
elder. He died before his elder, but after his death, the elder had a
vision of the disciple in hell.
The Disciple said to him, “Father, Please serve forty Liturgies for me,2
for I was disobedient and bad, upsetting you so much.”
After the elder had completed serving those forty Divine Liturgies, he
again beheld his disciple, but this time he was clothed in robes as
bright as the sun, and he said to the elder, “Through your holy prayers
and intercessions which you made for me, I have been released and
saved.”

The End and Glory be to God!

[Andreas Moran]

Doesn't a newly-ordained priest have to serve 40 consecutive liturgies? I think this is the ideal if not the requirement. I know a priest who had to do this.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Doesn't a newly-ordained priest have to serve 40 consecutive liturgies? I think this is the ideal if not the requirement. I know a priest who had to do this.

Traditionally, a newly-ordained priest will serve daily for forty days. A newly-ordained deacon will generally serve daily for ten days, though in some places a deacon also has forty days.

Outside of monasteries this is generally not possible. However, the practice of serving nearly every day for a period after ordination is still maintained in most places.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Olympiada]

A Greek friend recently told me about the 40 days Liturgy that begins on November 15th. I read a little about it but am unable to find much information. She told me to write a monastery and give them a list of names since my Church does not do this. Is this only a practice of the Greek Church? Is it mostly done only in monasteries now? I would appreciate any information about it.

Peace to all in Christ and the Panagia,
Marie
When a priest is ordained, he must serve 40 consecutive liturgies in a row.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

When a priest is ordained, he must serve 40 consecutive liturgies in a row.

See Fr Dn Matthew's post above. In many places the serving of the 40 days is not practical and so not done.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Olympiada]

Traditionally, a newly-ordained priest will serve daily for forty days. A newly-ordained deacon will generally serve daily for ten days, though in some places a deacon also has forty days.

Outside of monasteries this is generally not possible. However, the practice of serving nearly every day for a period after ordination is still maintained in most places.

INXC, Dcn Matthew
My dear Deacon Matthew, I must beg to differ. Here in the DOW, we most certainly do practice that. It is required. Now if there is an OCADOW bishop in this forum, he can correct me, but I am pretty sure I am right.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

My dear Deacon Matthew, I must beg to differ. Here in the DOW, we most certainly do practice that. It is required. Now if there is an OCADOW bishop in this forum, he can correct me, but I am pretty sure I am right.

Fr Dn Matthew didn't say that this practice never occurs. He said it doesn't always, for practical reasons, occur.

For example even though I attended an Orthodox seminary with all the facilities for the 40 days, it didn't, for practical reasons, occur. (I think I served 5 days in all).

In Christ- Fr Raphael