Seeking references for various themes in the fathers

[Shawn Lazar]

Hello all,

Could someone better versed in the early Fathers please help? I am looking for the earliest explicit patristic witnesse (year, author, book, chapter/paragraph) for...

(1) Mary's ever virginity
(2) Mary being free from personal sin
(3) a prayer being offered to a saint
(4) the lawfulness of, or command to, paint and venerate icons
(5) mandatory celibacy of bishops

I really appreciate it!
Shawn

[Michael Stickles]

Could someone better versed in the early Fathers please help? I am looking for the earliest explicit patristic witnesse (year, author, book, chapter/paragraph) for...

(1) Mary's ever virginity
(2) Mary being free from personal sin


Snipped the rest since these are the only ones I know anything about at the moment, though I'll see if I can do some research on the others also.

I did a little research on Mary when first looking into Orthodoxy (I admit, the whole ever-virgin thing bugged me back then). The earliest clear mention of her perpetual virginity that I've found is by Hippolytus in Against Beron and Helix, Fragment VIII (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf05.iii.iv.ii.v.viii.html), dated around 220 AD:


But the pious confession of the believer is that, with a view to our salvation, and in order to connect the universe with unchangeableness, the Creator of all things incorporated with Himself a rational soul and a sensible body from the all-holy Mary, ever-virgin, by an undefiled conception, without conversion, and was made man in nature, but separate from wickedness: the same was perfect God, and the same was perfect man; the same was in nature at once perfect God and man.

The "all-holy" in there might qualify this as the answer to your #2 as well, though it's not as specific. A more explicit though slightly later reference is from St. Ambrose of Milan, in Concerning Virgins, Book II, Chapter II (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf210.iv.vii.iii.ii.html) (written 377 AD).



Let, then, the life of Mary be as it were virginity itself, set forth in a likeness, from which, as from a mirror, the appearance of chastity and the form of virtue is reflected. From this you may take your pattern of life, showing, as an example, the clear rules of virtue: what you have to correct, to effect, and to hold fast.

The first thing which kindles ardour in learning is the greatness of the teacher. What is greater than the Mother of God? What more glorious than she whom Glory Itself chose? What more chaste than she who bore a body without contact with another body? For why should I speak of her other virtues? She was a virgin not only in body but also in mind, who stained the sincerity of its disposition by no guile, ... that the very appearance of her outward being might be the image of her soul, the representation of what is approved. For a well-ordered house ought to be recognized on the very threshold, and should show at the very first entrance that no darkness is hidden within, as our soul hindered by no restraints of the body may shine abroad like a lamp placed within.
...
But though the Virgin had other persons who were protectors of her body, she alone guarded her character; she can learn many points if she be her own teacher, who possesses the perfection of all virtues, for whatever she did is a lesson. Mary attended to everything as though she were warned by many, and fulfilled every obligation of virtue as though she were teaching rather than learning.


I'm by no means an expert in the Fathers; there may be earlier references on these points, but these are simply the earliest references which I am aware of.

In Christ,
Mike

[Shawn Lazar]

Thanks, Mike. Those are very helpful. I hope I'll get other posts to support and clarify the ones you've already supplied.

-Shawn

[Olympiada]

Thanks, Mike. Those are very helpful. I hope I'll get other posts to support and clarify the ones you've already supplied.

-Shawn
There have been discussions on why the married episcopate has not been restored. I encourage you to search the forum for them.

[Nina]

Hello all,

Could someone better versed in the early Fathers please help? I am looking for the earliest explicit patristic witnesse (year, author, book, chapter/paragraph) for...

(1) Mary's ever virginity
(2) Mary being free from personal sin
(3) a prayer being offered to a saint

I really appreciate it!
Shawn

You may inquire in the books of the Metropolitan Hierotheos of Naupaktos. His writings are filled also with references from the Holy Fathers.

About icons - since you said you are familiar with the library of the Holy Cross, check there for books on the subjects that concern you.

[Michael Stickles]

Was out of town for a few days, just getting back to things. On to the other points (again, remember that these are only the earliest references I've found to date; there may be earlier ones).



(3) a prayer being offered to a saint
(4) the lawfulness of, or command to, paint and venerate icons
(5) mandatory celibacy of bishops


(3) In the account of the Martyrdom of Polycarp (http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/martyrdompolycarp-hoole.html) (c. AD 150-160), Chapters 17-18 show the veneration of the relics of the martyr, but do not mention prayer to him. The earliest example of prayer to a saint which I've found is at the end of Gregory of Nyssa's In Praise of Blessed Theodore the Great Martyr (http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/stt22001.htm) (Gregory lived mid-late 4th century), but his remark that Peter, Paul and John are "solicitous on behalf of the churches which they have founded and on whose behalf they endured dangers and death" seems to indicate a long-standing practice of entreaties to at least these saints (entreaties which seem to have been regularly answered).

(4) The New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia has a good rundown of this issue (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07664a.htm) (though the overall point of view is slightly different from the Orthodox). While the theological issue was settled by the 7th Ecumenical Council (AD 787), the evidence is strong for long-standing use of icons and similar images, dating back to the earliest times of the Church. It is more difficult to pinpoint when use began to include veneration, but it is hard to place it later than the 4th century; most likely veneration of icons began earlier. Olga has far more knowledge of icons than I do, and might have a better idea on this.

For both points (3) and (4), The Icon FAQ (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/icon_faq.aspx) at the Orthodox Christian Information Center is another good resource.

(5) In the (canons) Canons of the Apostolic Constitutions (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf07.ix.ix.vi.html) (~AD 340-360?), it is stated in Canon VI that any bishop who divorces his wife "under pretence of piety" is to be suspended. This is a clear statement that episcopal celibacy was well known before this point (and abuses were well known also). The Council of Trullo (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/trullo.html) (AD 692) clarified this point, affirming the previous decision but stating in Canon XII that a bishop who lives with his wife should be deposed. The understanding is that a married man consecrated as bishop must not live with his wife but also may not divorce her (so must continue to provide for her). Canon XII listed the reason as: "And we say this, not to abolish and overthrow what things were established of old by Apostolic authority, but as caring for the health of the people and their advance to better things, and lest the ecclesiastical state should suffer any reproach." Percival's notes on Canon VI state that there is difficulty in tracing the history of views on marriage of clergy through the first three centuries; after that the matter becomes clearer.

In Christ,
Mike

[Olga]

"On the Divine Images", the treatise of St John of Damascus on the defence of icons has a wealth of patristic and scriptural references on iconography and veneration of icons. The text of this is easily available online in HTML format if you search for it. This treatise is perhaps the finest exposition on the subject, and it rightly influenced the decisions of both the Quinisext and Seventh Ecumenical Councils with regards to iconography.