'Thy sins be forgiven thee...' (Matthew 9.2)

[Seda S.]

In the KJV of the Bible the verses Mt 9:2, also Mk 2:5, 9 have this translation: "Thy sins be forgiven thee" instead of "...have been forgiven" or "...are forgiven". My question is: Does someone of you know or is able to check which version of the Greek New Testament has rendered such a translation (I myself could not find it)?

This interests me very much, since the meanings of these different variants are not the same. I may be incorrect, but I think "be forgiven" seems to be more correct in its meaning.

Any information on these verses (patristic explanations etc.) will be welcomed.

With love in the Lord,

S.

[Effie Ganatsios]

Seda, the Greek version is "Be courageous, my child. Your sins have been forgiven.

The above is the greek translation of the ancient greek text - "σου εχουν συγχωρηθη αι αμαρτιαι σου" past tense.

In the ancient greek text there is a slight difference : αφεωνται σοι αι αμαρτιαι σου" which is in the present tense and means "are forgiven you".

The second translation is obviously right.

Effie

[Nina]

Seda,

I think Effie is right when she says that the meaning of the New Testament Greek language in this case is "are forgiven you". This is the same with the Orthodox New Testament book I have in English.

In the same book there is said that through this saying, three signs of Christ's divinity are shown:


He knows the secrets of hearts.
He grants the forgiveness of sins, a power which belongs to God alone.
This healing is performed merely by the power of His word.(p.26)

[Seda S.]

Thank you, dear Effie and Nina, for your care to answer me.

I see, I'm not able to receive the answer for which Greek New Testament caused the above-mentioned translation of KJV. I thought, perhaps some scholar had made such an investigation and found the source(s) of that translation, and someone of you knew about it.

Anyway, thank you.

S.

[Anthony]

Dear Seda,

From a quick search of the internet, there seem to be two different readings, "aphientai" (present passive) and "apheontai" (irregular perfect passive according to various sites - personally I am a bit rusty on Greek irregular verbs, and can't think). I have to rush now, but will check in my New Testament this evening and hopefully report back tomorrow. If I forget, please complain.

[Seda S.]

Dear Seda,

From a quick search of the internet, there seem to be two different readings, "aphientai" (present passive) and "apheontai" (irregular perfect passive according to various sites - personally I am a bit rusty on Greek irregular verbs, and can't think). I have to rush now, but will check in my New Testament this evening and hopefully report back tomorrow. If I forget, please complain.

Dear Antony

I think you'll find one of the same readings which you have already mentioned.

If you forget to look in your New Testament...
Well, if I come back tomorrow and see you haven't done it, I'll complain, because it will be Thursday. But if I come back on Friday, I'll not complain, because usually I'm abstaining from complaining on Fridays. But on Wednesdays it is very hard for me to abstain from joking. :-)

With love in the Lord,

S.

[Anthony]

Dear Seda,



I think you'll find one of the same readings which you have already mentioned.

Right, but I hope it will also tell me something about which reading is found in the Church's lectionary, etc.



If you forget to look in your New Testament...
Well, if I come back tomorrow and see you haven't done it, I'll complain, because it will be Thursday. But if I come back on Friday, I'll not complain, because usually I'm abstaining from complaining on Fridays. But on Wednesdays it is very hard for me to abstain from joking. :-)


I think you should know that jokes are strictly forbidden on Monachos on all days, except in the special discussion area set aside for them.

(Stern look from under eyebrows)

[Olga]

... or, should that be "stern look over the top of half-moon glasses" ? :))

[Anthony]

I thought of that, but then I thought I preferred to be Gandalf.

Well, it seems that St Matthew wrote the present tense "aphientai" (Mt IX) and St Luke wrote the perfect tense "apheontai" (Lk V). It is in St Mark (Mk II) that we get variants. The traditional Church reading as found in the "Byzantine Lectionary" is "apheontai", and in this case is supported by most other manuscripts, including most of the Alexandrian uncials. The important exception is Vaticanus, which has "aphientai" - which may therefore appear in some modern versions.

That is about as far as I go, not being a scholar. But in answer to the original question, as far as I know the KJV was based on the Textus Receptus, which in most but not all cases agrees with the traditional Church text. So if it has the perfect tense in Mark, that would be the explanation. If it has the perfect tense in Matthew (?), that would appear to be either a mistake or an instance where the Textus Receptus has an idiosyncratic reading.

[Seda S.]

Thank you, Anthony, for your research.

With love in the Lord,

S.

[Anthony]

In the KJV of the Bible the verses Mt 9:2, also Mk 2:5, 9 have this translation: "Thy sins be forgiven thee" instead of "...have been forgiven" or "...are forgiven". My question is: Does someone of you know or is able to check which version of the Greek New Testament has rendered such a translation (I myself could not find it)?


I have just re-read your original question, and realized that I have not answered it at all. I'm sorry.

I didn't come across any readings at all corresponding to "your sins be forgiven" as that would be understood today (as a wish or a prayer). The only suggestion I have is that it might have been an equivalent of "your sins are forgiven", perhaps because used in reported speech, or for some other reason. I don't know enough about Early Modern English to know if that was possible - though compare Luke V 20-23, where "are forgiven" and "be forgiven" seem to be interchangeable, both with the sense of "are forgiven". Just an idea.

Another thought is that "are forgiven" in English is ambiguous between present and perfect (more precisely, between (i) a present passive verb and (ii) a copula plus perfect passive participle used adjectivally). So it is not always easy to be sure which Greek tense, present or perfect, is being translated.