Happiness

[Olympiada]

A Catholic priest asked me in another discussion community today if I was happy. I would like to answer him with a quote from the fathers on happiness. Any suggestions?

[Andreas Moran]

There will be more references under 'joy' than under 'happiness': see the index in each volume of the Philokalia. Vol. 3 has a short section on 'Joy'by St Peter of Damaskos at p. 260.

[Father David Moser]

A Catholic priest asked me in another discussion community today if I was happy. I would like to answer him with a quote from the fathers on happiness. Any suggestions?

You might want to look at this article (http://www.fatheralexander2.org/booklets/english/happy_e.htm).

Fr David Moser

[Nina]

Dear Olympiada,

These quotes I could find were all in my email.


I pray that the love of Jesus will inflame your heart with love, that you will run like a thirsty hart to the monastic fountains of spiritual water and drink your fill of heavenly nectar. May you become entirely spiritual, entirely devoted with divine eros to worshipping Him Who loved you to the point of death, even death on a cross.


Only in God will you find true happiness and joy, for the unchangeable and true God is their source. The enjoyment of earthly things is obtained with much labor and hard work, and afterwards it turns out to be harmful, meriting punishment. "Truly all human things are vain; riches do not remain; glory does not accompany one to the other world; when death comes it obliterates all these things." (from the funeral service).
Do you want to live a pleasant and peaceful life? Keep the commandments of God; keep the fear of God in your every thought, as well as in everything you say and do. The fear of the Lord is the beginning and the end of wisdom. (Prov.1:7).

Just as a lamp illuminates the path we are walking on, in the same way the fear of God illuminates us spiritually so that we can see how we must walk the path of our salvation. Also, as a lamp keeps us from tripping and falling, likewise the fear of God frees us from the obstacles of sin and guides us to our destination, which is the acquisition of God.


Selected from Counsels from the Holy Mountain from the Letters and Homilies of Elder Ephraim


"Why waste your youth, deprived of pleasure? What is there to gain by enduring tortures and death for the Crucified? Worship our gods, marry a handsome husband, and live in glory and honor."
The saint steadfastly replied, "My spouse, my riches, my life and my happiness are my Lord Jesus Christ, and you will not turn me away from Him by your deceit!" Response from Saint Anastasia the Roman to Probus the pagan city administrator.


"For our good, for our happiness," he said, "let us make a vow: at least from this day, from this hour, from this very minute, we should try to love God above all else and carry out His teachings." letter from Simeon Ianovskii (Yanovsky) to Igumen Damascene of Valaam,
22 November 1865
The grace-filled elder Avvakum from Lavra (on Mt. Athos) would say: Joy comes from one's relationship and union with God. Mankind has been created to be joyful, not sad. When you enjoy the wrong things, you will inevitably pay back for all this pleasure you have had. But God's joy demands no repayment. For instance I, who own nothing in this world, cannot pay for the happiness I have. I am not the only one proclaiming this truth. My brother monks, who also have nothing else besides God, are filled with joy. I have emptied myself for Christ's sake. I have nothing but my Lord - and joy. Poverty is beautiful for it sets you free. One should empty himself to make room for Christ to enter his heart. When the Lord is with me, there is my happiness also. In each ascetic cave you will find spiritual joy. from An Athonite Gerotikon


Be careful. Watch out for your soul! Turn your thoughts away from what will soon pass away and turn them towards what is eternal. Here you will find the happiness that your soul seeks, that your heart thirsts for.by Archbishop John Maximovitch
(Translated from Pravoslavnaya Rus) and taken from
ORTHODOX AMERICA, Vol. XIV, No. 2-3, September-October, 1993

[Olympiada]

You might want to look at this article (http://www.fatheralexander2.org/booklets/english/happy_e.htm).

Fr David Moser
Thank you. Do you have more like this? I find the concept of Christian joy hard to swallow...

[Theopesta]

1- Justin the martyr CHAP. III


happiness is the reward of such knowledge and wisdom.

2- THE EPISTLE OF MATHETES TO DIOGNETUS Chap. X:


And do not wonder that a man may become an imitator of God. He can, if he is willing. For it is not by ruling over his neighbours, or by seeking to hold the supremacy over those that are weaker, or by being rich, and showing violence towards those that are inferior, that happiness is found; nor can any one by these things become an imitator of God..

Climent of Alexandria wrote about the happiness from different views in his book the Stromata--it is present on-line for free; I think his writing style is not easy, but, deep.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Is joy the same as happiness?

[Theopesta]

Is joy the same as happiness?

I read Climint's view in his book "Stromata" from some years, all I have learnt is that Happiness is present in Holiness i.e holy life; and this is the true joy whatever the outer circumstances.

I think each term "Joy" and Happiness" means different things for different people, according to the values of each one.

Joy and Happiness may go on in one way or in different opposed ways.

I would like to know the knowledgeable and spiritual answer.

[Nina]

I think each term "Joy" and Happiness" means different things for different people, according to the values of each one.


I totally agree!

[Andreas Moran]

'Joy' perhaps is more appropriate to express spiritual gladness; 'happiness', as its etymology from 'happ' (O.N. good luck) suggests, has resonances of good fortune or, at best, denotes contentment. This distinction is, if my understanding is right, similar to the difference in Greek between 'χαρα' and 'ευτυχια'.

[Olympiada]

1- Justin the martyr CHAP. III

.

2- THE EPISTLE OF MATHETES TO DIOGNETUS Chap. X:

.

Climent of Alexandria wrote about the happiness from different views in his book the Stromata--it is present on-line for free; I think his writing style is not easy, but, deep.
The epistle of Mathetes is interesting, on not being violent to those who are inferior. Are Christians morally superior to the rest of the population? If so, are we then to be forbearing to those who are morally inferior?

[Theopesta]

Dear Oympiada

I am not knowledgeable enough to answer; But, I am quite sure that, Christianity Carries in all its respects all the means of healthy humility no more. No Supremacy over any population. But, Love even for our enemies.

In One Christ.

[Olympiada]

Dear Oympiada

I am not knowledgeable enough to answer; But, I am quite sure that, Christianity Carries in all its respects all the means of healthy humility no more. No Supremacy over any population. But, Love even for our enemies.

In One Christ.
Are you sure that's love? I thought it was prayer.

[M.C. Steenberg]

But, Love even for our enemies.


Are you sure that's love? I thought it was prayer.

No love for enemies, no Christianity.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Nina]

No love for enemies, no Christianity.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

Yes, Olympiada. Dcn. M and Theopesta are right. Actually Fathers say that we should reach the level where we pray with much love and pain in our heart for our enemies. So basically the prayer for our enemies, should resemble the heartfelt/soulfelt prayer we offer to God for ourselves, or a loved one when we are really in need of God's help. Fathers call this kind of prayer for our enemies: Paradise and perfection. We should strive towards that Fathers say. Also they say that we should pray to God "Through the prayers of ... (insert here the name of a person that you are not in good terms with), Lord Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me the sinner and save me!"

[Father David Moser]

Are you sure that's love? I thought it was prayer.

There is a difference? Are not true love and true prayer the same thing (unhindered communion with our Lord Jesus Christ)?

Fr David Moser

[Theopesta]

I think we can not love those make us suffer and denigrate us without reason; but, one by one the bitter feelings would be eased by the action of the HOLY SPIRIT. The HOLY SPIRIT would ease the pain and suffering when we do not try to avenge, just keep ourself from doing any evil action. Finally, we have found that they are part of the Divine plan in our life, so none could do anything in us. After that, Who is our enemies? I can say no one. Just the suffering is the most painful thing, but the sequence comforting will ease everything.

[Olympiada]

No love for enemies, no Christianity.

INXC, Dcn Matthew
Excuse me, but how can you "love" your enemies. I am talking real enemies, personal enemies, people out to get you, not just conceptual "enemies". That seems to be a rather ridiculous teaching to me. Who on earth would love someone who was trying to hurt them? That just seems plain insane and irresponsible to me.

[Olympiada]

There is a difference? Are not true love and true prayer the same thing (unhindered communion with our Lord Jesus Christ)?

Fr David Moser
Exactly my point. We can and have to pray for enemies, that's good enough.

[M.C. Steenberg]

From the above:

No love for enemies, no Christianity.


Excuse me, but how can you "love" your enemies. I am talking real enemies, personal enemies, people out to get you, not just conceptual "enemies". That seems to be a rather ridiculous teaching to me. Who on earth would love someone who was trying to hurt them? That just seems plain insane and irresponsible to me.
Olympiada, the commandment to love your enemies is given by Christ.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matthew 5.43-45)

And again, in the Gospel of Luke:
“But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back. And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise. But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful." (Luke 6.27-36)Christ is also talking about real enemies, not 'conceptual enemies'. And the answer to 'Who on earth would love someone who was trying to hurt them?' is Christ, and anyone who wishes to be called by Christ's name and life in his life.

One is of course free to claim that this is 'plain insane and irresponsible', but this is to reject Christ - both in his words and in his acts.

No love for enemies, no Christianity.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Andreas Moran]

'The soul cannot know peace unless she prays for her enemies.'

'But the man who thinks with malice of his enemies has not God's love within him, and he does not know God.'

'If you cannot love, then at least do not revile or curse your enemies, and things will already be better; but if a man curse and abuse his enemies, it is plain that an evil spirit lives in him, and if he does not repent, when he dies he will go to the place where evil spirits dwell. May the Lord preserve every soul from such adversity!'

Saint Silouan the Athonite.

[Nina]

Actually another Father has said that (excuse the paraphrasing) our enemies will bring us salvation - meaning the way we behave towards them. So God gives us salvation through our enemies.

Do not look too far about this: Christ Himself was betrayed and crucified, martyrs underwent all kinds of inhumane tortures and most of our saints endured persecution, hatred etc. Christianity is filled with such examples. Above all as it is mentioned before, it is a commandment of our Lord to love everyone and our enemies.

And like Dcn. Matthew so rightly said in another thread: No cross, no crown. What we consider our enemies are children of God, souls that need salvation same as ours. I know that it is human not to be able to feel love for our "enemies", but we are called to be deified and love our enemies. There were Fathers that even prayed and felt compassion even for devil.

[Andreas Moran]

Actually another Father has said that (excuse the paraphrasing) our enemies will bring us salvation - meaning the way we behave towards them. So God gives us salvation through our enemies.

This gives an interesting slant to St Silouan's saying, 'our brother is our life', our brothers including our enemies. Who are our enemies? We may know them only too well. But Bishop Eirenaios told me that we should pray for the enemies we do not know. There may be some people who hate us without our knowing; there may be people against whom we have offended in some way and we do not realise it because they hide their anger from us.

[Nina]

But Bishop Eirenaios told me that we should pray for the enemies we do not know. There may be some people who hate us without our knowing; there may be people against whom we have offended in some way and we do not realise it because they hide their anger from us.

Yes I agree. And as a saying goes "more people know you, than you know them". I have learned in so many cases that different people knew me before I was even aware of their existence. So that makes one wonder how many people we might have offended and we do not even know them. Bishop Eirenaios is so right!

[M.C. Steenberg]

This gives an interesting slant to St Silouan's saying, 'our brother is our life', our brothers including our enemies. Who are our enemies? We may know them only too well.

It might be worth knowing that this saying actually goes back to St Anthony of Egypt, whom St Silouan was paraphrasing.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Anthony]

Somebody posted on another thread a saying to the effect that the measure of our love for Christ is how we treat our worst enemy. I can't remember who it goes back to, but I just thought "ouch".

[Mary]

Somebody posted on another thread a saying to the effect that the measure of our love for Christ is how we treat our worst enemy. I can't remember who it goes back to, but I just thought "ouch".

'Groan'! I get that all the time, from my most faithful friend, whenever I complain to him about my 'enemy'. Makes me feel like I have lost my way before I've begun my journey! Oh, but there is hope. If only I can find it more quickly! But I suppose, I wouldn't even look for it, if I didn't find myself in total darkness, totally lost, miserable and cold and wet and ever so disappointed in myself. I'll spare you my misery. You seem to have your own 'Ouch'!

[Seda S.]

And who is "our worst enemy", if not the enemy of our Lord and human race? Do we really have other enemies?

S.

[Nina]

And who is "our worst enemy", if not the enemy of our Lord and human race? Do we really have other enemies?

S.

Even devil is child of God. Remember the story of Job?

[Mary]

And who is "our worst enemy", if not the enemy of our Lord and human race? Do we really have other enemies?

S.

Wasn't there a saint who even prayed for the Devil?

It's true we don't have any other 'real' enemy, but they sure feel like it sometimes! =)

[Nina]

Wasn't there a saint who even prayed for the Devil?


I have read that were many. One name that I remember is Elder Paisios (who is not yet a saint, but God willing!)

[Seda S.]

Even devil is child of God. Remember the story of Job?


Then we do not have enemies at all. All of them are imaginary...
But why is that "child of God" so naughty that God wants to send him to the eternal hell with many of us, human beings, deluded by that child?...

I don't have much sympathy with that child when he harms me and I want to treat him as he treats me using my will (another great enemy of mine) and my weaknesses. Because it is he that with his companions does everything to deprive me from HAPPINESS. It is pity, of course, that any being, including him and those with him, should suffer eternally (and I do not know if I myself shall be saved). But I do not think, we have or may have more love in our hearts than the Lord has. He knows what He does and what He SAYS. I cannot replace the word "enemy", uttered by our Lord's pure mouth, with the words "child of God". And I cannot think the saints were mad people who taught us to pray, "Let God arise, let His enemies be scattered...", meaning devil and demons (one could quote many other verses).

I may guess that you remember not only Job, but also Isaac of Syria who says that the man who has a merciful heart has pity on all creatures, even on demons. OK, when I reach holiness, I'll call devil "child of God" and shall pray for his salvation, too. But now I need to have enmity with him who harms me.
I cannot imagine St Anthony (or anybody else like him, no difference) struggling with demons even physically and at the same time calling them "children of God".

While I will not call any human being who harms or may harm me "my enemies", because I know that in reality no one of them is my enemy. If they really harm me and make me suffer, I'll call them "tools of justice of God". If they lead me to sin, I'll call them "tools of satan", deluded by him. And I will struggle with my inner enemy to be able to love my human "enemies", because the Lord commands me to do that.

Unfortunately, I didn't have time to read most of the posts in this thread about happiness. But happiness (or call it with another word) is the fruit of inner peace, and that peace is the fruit of struggle. And struggle supposes enemies. So I started from enemies...

I know, you are all well-learned and know many things better than me. I just wanted to take part in your conversation about such a desirable thing, as happiness is, and say something. And I said that something. :-) :-)

With love in the Lord,

S.

[Nina]

Then we do not have enemies at all. All of them are imaginary...
But why is that "child of God" so naughty that God wants to send him to the eternal hell with many of us, human beings, deluded by that child?...

I don't have much sympathy with that child when he harms me and I want to treat him as he treats me using my will (another great enemy of mine) and my weaknesses. Because it is he that with his companions does everything to deprive me from HAPPINESS. It is pity, of course, that any being, including him and those with him, should suffer eternally (and I do not know if I myself shall be saved). But I do not think, we have or may have more love in our hearts than the Lord has. He knows what He does and what He SAYS. I cannot replace the word "enemy", uttered by our Lord's pure mouth, with the words "child of God". And I cannot think the saints were mad people who taught us to pray, "Let God arise, let His enemies be scattered...", meaning devil and demons (one could quote many other verses).

With love in the Lord,

S.

I agree with you in what you say, although all these still do not change the fact that we are all children of God. Naughty, or prodigals, but still His children.

The Hebrew word that is used in the OT in the story of Job (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=22&chapter=1&version=31), which is inspired by the Holy Spirit also, means 'sons of God'. Does that include the Devil? I do not know, maybe Dcn. Matthew can enlighten us. But from what I read it can be taken both ways and since he was also creature of God I chose to include him too. Although he went astray and his name Satan means the accuser, the tempter etc.

All these do not mean that I have more love than God (and many saints also prayed about the devil so we can not accuse them of thinking they have more love than God), but just to be objective.

Also as a story goes we can be more deceiving than the devil: There was a monk who craved egg during a fasting period. He found an egg took it to his cell and placed it on the key and underneath it he placed some flame to cook the egg surreptitiously from the rest of his monastic brothers. The Elder of the monastery was walking near by this monk's cell and noticed the light and thinking there was somethings going on, looked. When he saw what the monk was doing, he opened the door and asked the monk: "Why my son are you doing this?" and the monk quickly defended himself: "Elder, the devil taught me to do it! It is not my fault!" At that moment the devil appeared and said: "No, no, no. I have been all over the world and through all the times and I never have thought of such a trick and never have seen this trick."
I do not remember where I read it, but maybe it is from the Gerontikon.

Although you have to know that I agree with most things you say and I know where you come from because as we learn from the story of Elder Paisios, when praying about the devil to repent and turn back to God, the Elder saw the devil outside his cell laughing and ridiculing him. In that moment the Elder understood that it was futile to pray for the devil.

[Olympiada]

Actually another Father has said that (excuse the paraphrasing) our enemies will bring us salvation - meaning the way we behave towards them. So God gives us salvation through our enemies.

Do not look too far about this: Christ Himself was betrayed and crucified, martyrs underwent all kinds of inhumane tortures and most of our saints endured persecution, hatred etc. Christianity is filled with such examples. Above all as it is mentioned before, it is a commandment of our Lord to love everyone and our enemies.

And like Dcn. Matthew so rightly said in another thread: No cross, no crown. What we consider our enemies are children of God, souls that need salvation same as ours. I know that it is human not to be able to feel love for our "enemies", but we are called to be deified and love our enemies. There were Fathers that even prayed and felt compassion even for devil.
So are atheists children of God? Are those who persecute Orthodox Christians children of God? It is easier to pray and feel compassion for the devil. It is no so easy to pray and feel compassion for those you know by name who are spitefully abusing you. The devil is impersonal. The men (and women) he possesses are not.

[M.C. Steenberg]

So are atheists children of God? Are those who persecute Orthodox Christians children of God?

Yes.


It is easier to pray and feel compassion for the devil. It is no so easy to pray and feel compassion for those you know by name who are spitefully abusing you. The devil is impersonal. The men (and women) he possesses are not.

The Church teaches that the devil is no more impersonal than anyone else. The tendency to think he is, is part of the reason he retains such strength.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Nina]

So are atheists children of God? Are those who persecute Orthodox Christians children of God?

Although Dcn. Matthew said it already -and his word is incomparably more valuable than mine- I have to say that: Yeaah. Of course they are! Where did they come from if not from God?


It is no so easy to pray and feel compassion for those you know by name who are spitefully abusing you.I know very well what you mean and understand you completely. Start with compassion. These people must have something that you can feel sorry about. If you cultivate compassion, then prayer will come too. It is easier said than done, but remember to pray to God to give you these (compassion and prayer for those who were mean/bad to you) and love, besides mercy. Prayer is grace from God. We have to make our hearts soft (since sin hardens them). Only when our hearts become soft, they are malleable and God can work very well with them. If our hearts are only hardened then they are impenetrable, and no grace from God, no voice from God can enter there. I know that a sinful person like I, has some moments when the heart softens - it is normal because God has implanted that nature in us. We just need to strive to extend these moments as much as possible so we can give God permanent access to our hearts. These thoughts are from the Fathers.

[Karena Hryniuk]

No love for enemies, no Christianity.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

Precisely so. AMEN!

+++
~Karena

[Owen Jones]

Olympiada has made an important point. All Christians are insane, by worldly standards. No person on earth would love his enemies. Which is why Christianity is not an earthly religion. So what's the point? The point is that when we actually practice this kind of love we are changed. And so what does this say about who Christians are? It probably says that I am not yet a Christian. Just believing in Jesus Christ and having a personal relationship with Him is insufficient. Just believing that the doctrines of my Church are true is not enough. Just attending services is not enough.

I must live as He lived, and then I will be changed into His image and likeness. If I cling to worldly things, I will be angry at whoever threatens my stuff, which is why voluntary poverty and voluntary virginity are the primary Christian virtues from which all else flows. If I am married with children, it does not mean that I cannot practice these virtues at all, but I need exemplars, which is why we have monastics, and I can draw strength and virtue from the monastic way, so that even while I am striving for material things for the benefit of my family, I don't have to be idolatrous about it.

The monastic speaks of having died to the world. He is already dead, insofar as the world is concerned. So ideally the monastic is one who no longer clings to worldly things. And I can derive power from that. We hate others because of the threat they pose toward our worldly things -- power, money, prestige and influence. When we give up all of those, or at least become willing to do so, there is no longer a reason to hate our enemies. (Note that the Gospel does not say that we have no enemies!!!)

The best treatment of this issue in our own day is to be found in AN INTERRUPTED LIFE: THE DIARIES OF ETTY HILLESUM.

[Nina]

The point is that when we actually practice this kind of love we are changed. And so what does this say about who Christians are?

I must live as He lived, and then I will be changed into His image and likeness.

But even the life of Christ on earth did not change many of the people we know about from NT.



And I can derive power from that. We hate others because of the threat they pose toward our worldly things -- power, money, prestige and influence.Yes and no. The basis for all these attachemnts is ego. A powerless, poor, un-influential person can hate too. And a monk who rejects everything can hate too.



When we give up all of those, or at least become willing to do so, there is no longer a reason to hate our enemies. (Note that the Gospel does not say that we have no enemies!!!)Of course there are people who annoy us, who curl up our nerves (and thank God we live in peace right now and there are no invaders). (We should look up the etymology of the word enemy from New Testament Greek). But according to the Christian standards and philosophy we have to achieve a point where we see no personal enemies. Love your enemies - means really really:you should consider/treat no one as an enemy, regardless on how he/she treats you in return. So basically our duty is to love and when we love the word enemy is excluded.

[Owen Jones]

I did not think this stuff up! I'm only repeating what I have seen and heard.

Yes, Christ was demonstrably ineffective. Really, quite a loser. A failure. All but one of his disciples ran and hid. At his Cross were his mother, an ex-prostitute, and one disciple. Really quite a disaster when you stop to think about it.

[Nina]

I did not think this stuff up! I'm only repeating what I have seen and heard.

Ok maybe we need to start a thread about who are our enemies.

I do not think these myself either.

[Owen Jones]

Well, let's see...isn't Satan our common enemy? Should we love him and pray for his salvation???? Why not? Aren't we to hate the sin and love the sinner?

There is a significant difference between the perception of not having enemies, and having enemies that we do not see or recognize. In the temporal sense, the Allied Powers after WWI refused to see Hitler and Stalin as their enemies. There was a strong belief that they all had the same objective in mind -- peace. We know the outcome. Today there are plenty of people wanting to kill us. Who doubts that if terrorists came by an atomic bomb they would use it on a European or American city?

Spiritually, the fundamental enemy is ourselves, or shall we say, the demonic influences that we willingly couple with. Should we therefore love our sins? Heaven forbid. However, there is a sense in which we ought to stop fighting our sins and permit God to do the work for us. We will not deliver ourselves from this enemy, which I think is the underlying point of the teaching. There is no escape from enemies, when left to our own devices.

[Nina]

Well, let's see...isn't Satan our common enemy? Should we love him and pray for his salvation???? Why not?

This is so funny. :) Owen, my religion if you notice is not something that starts with the letter s (I do not know how exactly to translate the euphemisms my grandmothers used to say, because they did not even mention his name in their lives). I am a Christian, Owen, so you do not have to convince me about that. And I love Archangel Michael for a reason and during the moment in Liturgy when are mentioned his words that he said I feel like crying.

So after establishing that I am still a Christian, I would like to mention that the discussion about him came because we would like to point out the love that we should have - a love that surpasses everything. It is not that I have such love, but we are here discussing through Patristics and learning and trying. And it is not that we should love sin and who causes us to sin, but when we hear that saints had love about him and wanted him to repent, how much more we should behave like that towards other people that we consider our enemies.


There is a significant difference between the perception of not having enemies, and having enemies that we do not see or recognize. In the temporal sense, the Allied Powers after WWI refused to see Hitler and Stalin as their enemies. There was a strong belief that they all had the same objective in mind -- peace. We know the outcome. Today there are plenty of people wanting to kill us. Who doubts that if terrorists came by an atomic bomb they would use it on a European or American city?

What does this all mean?



Spiritually, the fundamental enemy is ourselves, or shall we say, the demonic influences that we willingly couple with. Should we therefore love our sins?
Heaven forbid.

Oh, but no one said that we should love our sins. We should subdue ourselves and defy our sins.


However, there is a sense in which we ought to stop fighting our sins and permit God to do the work for us. We will not deliver ourselves from this enemy, which I think is the underlying point of the teaching. There is no escape from enemies, when left to our own devices.

Actually as you say we should leave it in God's hands to do as He wills with us.