Switching to plural in John 3.1-21: Is Jesus addressing all Jews through Nicodemus?

[Andreas Moran]

I happened to look at this passage this morning (no, don't think I dutifully read scripture every morning!). I noticed that at first Christ is addressing Nicodemus only - 'thee' and 'thou' - but at the end of v. 11 and in v. 12, He changes to the plural forms 'ye' and 'you' which presumably apply for the rest of this discourse. Is Christ addressing His remarks to the Jews generally through Nicodemus, or is He talking now also to His disciples? This change reflects the original Greek but, of course, cannot be expressed in modern English.

Also, do we know what are the 'earthly things' mentioned in v. 12?

[M.C. Steenberg]

For those wishing to reflect more easily on Andreas' point, the text he refers to (John 3.1-21) is below. I provide it in two translations:


Authorised ('King James') version:
1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:



2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.


3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?


5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.


8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?


10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.


12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?


13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:


15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.


20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

New King James version (NKJV):
1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”


3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”


4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”


5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”


9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”


10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%203.1-21&version=50#fen-NKJV-26128a)] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%203.1-21&version=50#fen-NKJV-26130b)] have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Andreas Moran]

Thank you, Fr Dcn Matthew - I'm sorry, I should have posted these texts.

[Paul Cowan]

Dear Andreas,

I am no theologian nor english major, but reading both versions, I do not see a difference. It seems as if he is talking to Nicodemus. He came to Him by cover of night so as not to be seen by anyone. Christ was teaching a teacher of the Jews. Since Christ did not own a house, He was obviously sleeping over with someone. So it is practical that He began His talk with Nicodemus in private and was joined by the owner of the house and possibly His disciples also?

So He could easily have gone from first person to third person in language.

Paul

[Andreas Moran]

So it is practical that He began His talk with Nicodemus in private and was joined by the owner of the house and possibly His disciples also?

So He could easily have gone from first person to third person in language.

That makes sense. John 3:1-21 is a beautiful and important passage. It includes the words, 'For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son' (v. 16).

I also noticed that in v. 2, Nicodemus says, 'we' and not 'I'. This must mean that he was not alone in his opinion of Jesus.

[Michael Stickles]

Actually, Jesus starts using the plural form earlier - in verse 7, where He says "Marvel not that I said unto thee (singular), Ye (plural) must be born again."

My opinion is that in verse 7 he is using the plural to speak a general truth which includes Nicodemus in its applicability. Before that, he was speaking generally ("Except a man ..."), but now perhaps he is making it clear that Nicodemus is not exempted by his position (either generally as a Jew, or specifically as a Pharisee) from the need to be born again in order to see the kingdom of God. On the other hand, I think in verses 11 and 12 he is using the plural to speak of the Jews as a whole, or perhaps even more specifically of the rulers of the Jews, the Pharisees and Saduccees.

I don't think it's likely that the plural ye includes His disciples, since I think they are included in His we in verse 11 ("We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye (plural) receive not our witness.").

An unrelated side note on this passage is that translations vary widely as to where they show Jesus' words ending and John's commentary resuming. I've seen Jesus' words shown as ending at verses 12, 15, 18, or 21, depending on the translation.

In Christ,
Mike