Is Christianity a set of moral codes?

[Olympiada]

It seems to me based on the discussion in this community that all Christianity is a moral code, should and should not. This is a turn off. Is there any other approach to Christianity? I thought that Jesus Christ did not come as a moralizer?

[M.C. Steenberg]

Above, Olympiada wrote:


It seems to me based on the discussion in this community that all Christianity is a moral code, should and should not. This is a turn off. Is there any other approach to Christianity? I thought that Jesus Christ did not come as a moralizer?

I'm not sure the background to this observation; though I do notice that you've posted it in the Ascesis > Christian's relationship to the world area, which is a portion of the Community dedicated to questions about practical concerns in living in the world.

Christianity is not a 'moral code'. It is a life, borne up in Christ's own. This radically shapes the way life is lived - conforms, transforms, modifies it; demands its change, often radical so. But this is not a set of morals. It is the activity of a heart set on transfiguration.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Nicolaj]

Dear Olympiada,

I don't think that you see this in the correct way! Orthodox Christianity is freedom, freedom to become a child of God. You can choose it, or not. When you choose it, there will be somethings where you have to make your mind about and to ask how this is to handle in everyday life.
The children love the father and will try to meet him, although he don't need anything from any of us. But as it is natural, children try to do as their father shows them. The children when having a good father try to become good children, pleasing their loving father!

But as said nobody forces you to anything.

In Christ, Nicolaj

[Nina]

No. Christ did not come to moralize. He came to restore and renew our image and to enable us to reach His likeness (theosis = deification). He came to save us.

[Father David Moser]

Orthodox Christianity is not only a way of life (as Fr Matthew pointed out) it is the healthy(est) way of life. Yes, there are lots of things to do and to avoid - but is not this what living a healthy life is all about - we do some things, we avoid other things, we exercise, we diet, we (generally) don't jump off the cliff to see how far we can fall. What you seem to see as a "moral code" I see as the guidelines for healthy living. The end goal of this way of life - the "good health" for which we strive - is for our salvation, to actualize in our selves the image and likeness of the Holy Trinity in which we were created.

Fr David Moser

[Leonard]

Jesus DID certainly preach a moral code, but that is only part of His teaching and Ministry. I think the following of Christ by a Believer certainly implies a more lengthy moral code, than Jesus actually commanded.

Since our daily concourse with other human beings is going to be directed by some ethos, I cannot understand how a 'moral code' would be a 'turn off'........

[Andreas Moran]

The good citizen lives by a moral code but he may not be a Christian. A person may believe he is a Christian if he behaves morally. But, either way, doing good in compliance with a moral code will avail nothing before God if the actions do not proceed from love, as St Paul tells us in 1 Cor.13.

[Nina]

we (generally) don't jump off the cliff to see how far we can fall.
Fr David Moser

Giggles... Although there are bungee jumping, skydiving. :) But of course there is safety gear involved.

[Antonios]

Dear Olympiada,

Jesus did not come as a moralizer. He came to save sinners.

The fact that He gave moral instructions and commandments does not make Him our Savior. The fact that He taught us to be merciful and to love those who hurt us, is not what gives Him authority to preach these things and us to listen. The fact that He performed miracles and raised the dead is not why either. Neither is the fact that He Himself rose from the dead and sits at the right hand of the Father, watching every second of our lives. But rather, all of these together give Him such authority. Whether or not we choose to obey Him is the decision we will live or die for.

In Christ,
Antonios

[Herman Blaydoe]

The danger is that it is the non-Christians who attempt to reduce Christianity simply to "morals". We must not buy into that lie. The most "impressive" (in a sardonic sense) reduction of Christianity I have ever read was this: "Once upon a time there was a man called Jesus. He said we should all be nice to each other, so they killed him, of course."

This is very important for non-Christians, since it is what puts all of us on an "equal footing". Therefore we can simply all just get along since we all teach "essentially" the same thing, a set of morals to live by.

But we know different. Christianity is not a "code" of conduct or of Da Vinci. It is the Way, the Truth, and Life itself.

[Nina]

The danger is that it is the non-Christians who attempt to reduce Christianity simply to "morals". We must not buy into that lie. The most "impressive" (in a sardonic sense) reduction of Christianity I have ever read was this: "Once upon a time there was a man called Jesus. He said we should all be nice to each other, so they killed him, of course."

This is very important for non-Christians, since it is what puts all of us on an "equal footing". Therefore we can simply all just get along since we all teach "essentially" the same thing, a set of morals to live by.

But we know different. Christianity is not a "code" of conduct or of Da Vinci. It is the Way, the Truth, and Life itself.

Great post! Thanks for the knowledge you shared.

[Olympiada]

The danger is that it is the non-Christians who attempt to reduce Christianity simply to "morals". We must not buy into that lie. The most "impressive" (in a sardonic sense) reduction of Christianity I have ever read was this: "Once upon a time there was a man called Jesus. He said we should all be nice to each other, so they killed him, of course."

This is very important for non-Christians, since it is what puts all of us on an "equal footing". Therefore we can simply all just get along since we all teach "essentially" the same thing, a set of morals to live by.

But we know different. Christianity is not a "code" of conduct or of Da Vinci. It is the Way, the Truth, and Life itself.
Well 10 posts into it at least someone gets it. That's a pretty funny quote there. See the thing is people who are *not* Christians expect Christians to act better than other people, and when they do not, those other people say "you are not Christian". My point is someone is a Christian whether or not they "act" like one at all times. We are all sinners, Christians included, and other people seem to forget that. I had an interesting conversation with someone where he told me he never self identified as a Christian because people would judge him. I agree with this.

[Andreas Moran]

I had an interesting conversation with someone where he told me he never self identified as a Christian because people would judge him. I agree with this.

Not a good witness for his faith, then.

[Herman Blaydoe]

See the thing is people who are *not* Christians expect Christians to act better than other people, and when they do not, those other people say "you are not Christian".

Or worse, they say "you are just like us", so being a "Christian" doesn't seem to mean much. The Holy Apostle Paul writes about this to a great extent. But he still says, BE PERFECT even as our Father in Heaven is perfect. Fact is, if we are not striving to be "better" than we are, we are not really so "christian" after all. This is, I suspect, a remnant of the "once saved" strain of Protestantism, and certainly manifests the fallicy of that concept. I certainly am not perfect but I am still obligated to be perfected, if I want to claim my "prize" as a Christian athlete (a metaphor the Apostle Paul seems very fond of). I have to keep working at it and if I stop "training" and striving, I "relinquish" my "title" and give up on my salvation.

Therefore your friend states a "truth" but not in the manner he or you realize. He sees that he has "far to go" and does not want to be "judged" on that fact, perhaps he does not want to be a "poor" witness. It is good to be aware of our shortcomings. But I think he is being like the servant who buried his talent in the ground. I think the moral of that parable is that this is NOT a good thing to do.

[M.C. Steenberg]

I had an interesting conversation with someone where he told me he never self identified as a Christian because people would judge him. I agree with this.

"The magistrate approached Polycarp, pressed him hard and said, 'Simply deny Christ, and I will release thee.' Polycarp replied, 'Fourscore and six years have I been His servant, and He hath done me no wrong. How then can I blaspheme my King who saved me?' "

-From The Martyrdom of St Polycarp

[Nina]

I am fond of wearing my cross (necklace) for all people to see - when I think about it I am so happy and feeling so proud, but at the same time I get scared because I think of the bad things I might do that will ashame my cross and Christianity.

But Herman is right that we can not bury our talent and that Christ came to save sinners. Only God is perfect and while we strive towards that we are kind of living beings and fall often. Your friend is humble, but tell him to be proud for only one thing: that he is a Christian, that he belongs to Christ - as the Apostle says. Tell your friend that when St. Anthony saw all the tricks of the evil one he got so terrified because the whole place was filled with the devil's tricks and entrapments. St. Anthony cried to God: Who can be saved from all these my God? And God said: Only the humble person.

[Father David Moser]

Why should we be concerned whether or not others will judge us for being called after our Lord Jesus Christ. It is not their judgment that matters, but rather the judgment of the One Who we claim as our own. To deny Christ - or to hide Him - for such a reason is itself pride (to presume that we can save the "reputation" of Christ by our own actions). How foolish we are.

Fr David Moser

[Nina]

Why should we be concerned whether or not others will judge us for being called after our Lord Jesus Christ. It is not their judgment that matters, but rather the judgment of the One Who we claim as our own. To deny Christ - or to hide Him - for such a reason is itself pride (to presume that we can save the "reputation" of Christ by our own actions). How foolish we are.

Fr David Moser

Hmm I never thought of it this way... Thank you Father! I personally meant it that it is a huge responsibility when I show my cross because who knows who will be scandalized, or tempted by what I do?... Starting with the sexy top I wear just next to my cross etc.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Luke 9:26 For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

[Nina]

Luke 9:26 For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Herman, I do not know Olympiada's friend (I do not even know Olympiada) but I can understand the guilt and responsibility a person can feel when having an important position. Being a Christian is not a public office, is incomparably more than that. Good people are under scrutiny - it can be ill-intended, or well-intended. Christians are under scrutiny. Good Christians are even under the scrutiny of other Christians. Dostoevsky writes something on this feature of human nature. It is something else to be ashamed of Christ and it is another thing to be ashamed of yourself as a sinner for not honoring Christ. These are two different concepts.

[Mary]

Herman, I do not know Olympiada's friend (I do not even know Olympiada) but I can understand the guilt and responsibility a person can feel when having an important position. Being a Christian is not a public office, is incomparably more than that. Good people are under scrutiny - it can be ill-intended, or well-intended. Christians are under scrutiny. Good Christians are even under the scrutiny of other Christians. Dostoevsky writes something on this feature of human nature. It is something else to be ashamed of Christ and it is another thing to be ashamed of yourself as a sinner for not honoring Christ. These are two different concepts.

I've often wondered how it is that Jesus Christ willingly allowed us to bear His Holy Name, knowing we'd humilate Him by our scandalous behavior, by our inability to control ourselves, and even by twisting His teachings. Is that His humility?

I try to let my shame motivate me to behave in a way that doesn't shame Him, but still I fail. I haven't been accused of being 'unchristian' yet, by whatever standard. I wonder, if the only thing to do when accused of being unchristian, is to humbly admit that: "Yes, that was unchristian. I have scandalized my Lord by my behavior. All I can do now, is to go beg Him for His mercy, and repent... again..."

I dunno. Just a thought.

Mary

[Olympiada]

"The magistrate approached Polycarp, pressed him hard and said, 'Simply deny Christ, and I will release thee.' Polycarp replied, 'Fourscore and six years have I been His servant, and He hath done me no wrong. How then can I blaspheme my King who saved me?' "

-From The Martyrdom of St Polycarp
Well Polycarp didn't live in Marin County, nor did he live in 2007. In this county, in this year, if you say you are a Christian, you will be persecuted, and not just by the magistrate, by the people. They will place all kinds of expectations and judgments on you for admitting you are a Christian, and will immediately begin to tear you down because you are not meeting up to them. Its bad enough we fight among ourselves. Why expose ourselves to more strife in the world? Its like a priest who judges for himself it would be better not to wear his cassock out in public as to not call to much attention to himself.

[Nina]

I try to let my shame motivate me to behave in a way that doesn't shame Him, but still I fail. I haven't been accused of being 'unchristian' yet, by whatever standard.
Mary

Yes, the same for me. No one has accused me for being an embarrassment to Christianity. However my conscience has done that. That is my point. That is the other possibility.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Well Polycarp didn't live in Marin County, nor did he live in 2007.

This is true. He lived in a time when the persecution met out against Christians was far, far worse.


In this county, in this year, if you say you are a Christian, you will be persecuted, and not just by the magistrate, by the people. They will place all kinds of expectations and judgments on you for admitting you are a Christian, and will immediately begin to tear you down because you are not meeting up to them.

Good.

This is as it should be. As Christ promised it would be.


Its bad enough we fight among ourselves. Why expose ourselves to more strife in the world?

No cross, no crown.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Andreas Moran]

'Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets before you.'

Matthew 5:11-12

[Nicolaj]

I wonder, if the only thing to do when accused of being unchristian, is to humbly admit that: "Yes, that was unchristian. I have scandalized my Lord by my behavior. All I can do now, is to go beg Him for His mercy, and repent... again..."
Mary

Yes Mary, that is exactly what it is to be like him, to be like the lamb, ready to die!

I know, we all would like to be as Jesus was, when he was in the temple and smashing those money-changers out of it, but that was him in his Fathers house.

In the world he was like a lamb!

and when Matthew writes this:

No cross, no crown.

he is so right!

My priest tells us this time after time, so I will not forget it, because it is so important for Orthodox Christianity!

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

[Nina]

Well Polycarp didn't live in Marin County, nor did he live in 2007. In this county, in this year, if you say you are a Christian, you will be persecuted, and not just by the magistrate, by the people.

Olympiada,

It does not matter when and where do you live. There were saints who were public figures, or very prominent from the richest families in the capital city of the world in its times: Rome. And still they did not mind the persecution, humiliation and whatever they suffered for Christ. Not only a magistrate persecuted them, but their families, entire crowds and people (many of whom converted to Christianity when faced with the divine witness of these saints). Many other saints suffered in other forms and other places and other times. The only thing that mattered was that by the grace of God they endured everything for Christ. Let's not forget that often martyrs prayed to God to give them strength and endurance to bear everything. And He gave His grace abundantly that they endured physical tortures and even came unharmed from fire and beasts for His greater glory and the conversion of many.

[Andreas Moran]

I'm thinking of St Afanasii (Sakharov). I've mentioned him before. Though a bishop, he spent 33 years in the gulags, spending many of those years cleaning out latrines. On his release in 1955, he was asked what he thought about his persecutors. 'Oh, they're very nice people', he replied, separating their sins from their being made in the image of God.

[Nina]

I'm thinking of St Afanasii (Sakharov). I've mentioned him before. Though a bishop, he spent 33 years in the gulags, spending many of those years cleaning out latrines. On his release in 1955, he was asked what he thought about his persecutors. 'Oh, they're very nice people', he replied, separating their sins from their being made in the image of God.

A man (saint) after my own heart! Oh if I could just emulate him and say that for all!

[Mary]

I've often wondered how it is that Jesus Christ willingly allowed us to bear His Holy Name, knowing we'd humilate Him by our scandalous behavior, by our inability to control ourselves, and even by twisting His teachings. Is that His humility?


Just to clarify myself: I was thinking of JWs and Mormons as those 'who twist His teachings', since they too are classified as Christians, and therefore bear the Name of Christ. Since the world sees them also as Christians, whatever they do in the Name of Our Lord, reflects, not only on Him, but also on us. In a way, I feel like all those who bear the Name of Christ, are somehow connected to us.

I was still prostestant when all the RC problems were being unearthed and publicized and I felt very much, like I couldn't separate myself from them by saying: "Hey, I'm not RC. I'm not like that..." I am the same as them, for the world doesn't care to understand that my Christianity is different. But, I'm also the same as them, because hidden deep inside, I'm just as scandalous. And although it doesn't make sense to me, I sometimes feel like I have to ask for forgiveness for them, just as if I'd done it myself. I dunno. Perhaps that's my own twistedness. I haven't really thought it through.

[Olympiada]

A man (saint) after my own heart! Oh if I could just emulate him and say that for all!
Do men go after our hearts, or does God?

[Andreas Moran]

A man (saint) after my own heart! Oh if I could just emulate him and say that for all!

Apart from an icon and a photo of him, I can find nothing on the 'net about him, nothing in English. Lydia reads the book of his life and translates into English as she goes along. We plan to do a translation together. He is such an inspiration!

[Owen Jones]

What's wrong with a moral code? While Christianity is much more than that, it is certainly a moral code. I know a number of people who equate this with Naziism. Literally. They believe in a massive conspiracy against them to control their lives and burn with resentment against a Church that they know nothing about.

Why has God given us a moral code? For two reasons. First, just observe people who have no moral code. Look at the destruction they create for themselves and others. Second, are they happy, joyous and free?

One of the interesting facts about Christians in my country is that people who say they are Christian and pray sincerely have completely abandoned the Christian moral code as it applies to sexuality. They feel like it is perfectly OK to live with another person without benefit of Christian marriage. It is quite bizarre.

Those who are not evenly remotely Christian defy the Christian moral code regarding sexual matters as a badge of honor. They talk about their "relationships" when in fact there is no relationship, which has become the most absurd word in the English language. There is only taking.

So, yes, Christianity is a moral code and we should be thankful for it. Most people should be content to simply follow the moral code without having to become an expert in Palamite theology. Without the moral code, everything else is prideful. Belief is prideful and filled with self-deceit. People love reading the Philokalia for its wonderful spiritual passages. Very inspiring. Yet they avoid the fact that embedded in virtually every passage is the moral code. Obedience to the commandments.

St. Paul called himself a slave to Christ. He and we have a choice, either become a slave to sin, or a slave to Christ. If we do not like those options, we are to be pitied.

[Nina]

I agree with some of your opinions, but still we can not reduce Christianity to the level of moral code. We have to realize and understand that it is natural for us to be like Christ (and abnormal to be not like Him) because that is why we were created. This is an important truth that does not confuse people; and it sets Christianity apart from codes.

Also as we know from the Fathers where there is love there is no law. That is perfection. Christianity is perfect.

I read some days ago that a Father said that we can do things for two reasons: fear of God and love for God. While he did not dismiss the first and he approved that it is a very good way towards salvation, he upheld the second as the best way.

[Nina]

Apart from an icon and a photo of him, I can find nothing on the 'net about him, nothing in English. Lydia reads the book of his life and translates into English as she goes along. We plan to do a translation together. He is such an inspiration!

Andreas, Lydia has such a talent (studying Russian philology in Moscow and now living in England). She should really, really and seriously help the rest of Orthodoxy with translations from the pearls of Russian spirituality and etc. Tell her not to hide the talent, please. :)

[Owen Jones]

I am not reducing Christianity to a moral code only. But certainly Christianity is a moral code, without which everything else is meaningless, ridiculous, pointless. The idea that a person can be "spiritual" without following a rigorous moral code is one of the greatest deceits Satan ever perpetrated.

[Nina]

I would rather choose the words of Dcn. Matthew who said that Christianity is a way of life (these words echo the Fathers).

And this is different completely from the idea you presented:
The idea that a person can be "spiritual" without following a rigorous moral code is one of the greatest deceits Satan ever perpetrated.

We were not talking about this. We can find moral codes everywhere even in the most immoral societies/times.

[Owen Jones]

It is a way of life that is firmly grounded in a moral code. The fact that most of it is observed in the breach, including by many Christians, does not negate the importance of the moral code. The fact that there are many moral codes, that this somehow means something significant, seems to me to be a non sequiter. We must remember that Christ said he did not come to change the law one jot or tittle, only to fulfill the law. The law still stands. The basis of our moral code is, of course, the Ten Commandments, without which life would be poor, nasty, brutish and short. The search for "spirituality" absent a firm moral code is one of the serious problems of our age, a symptom of narcissism.

[Mary]

It is a way of life that is firmly grounded in a moral code. The fact that most of it is observed in the breach, including by many Christians, does not negate the importance of the moral code. The fact that there are many moral codes, that this somehow means something significant, seems to me to be a non sequiter. We must remember that Christ said he did not come to change the law one jot or tittle, only to fulfill the law. The law still stands. The basis of our moral code is, of course, the Ten Commandments, without which life would be poor, nasty, brutish and short. The search for "spirituality" absent a firm moral code is one of the serious problems of our age, a symptom of narcissism.

It is true that the moral code - the Ten commandments - the Law - are still important. But one can follow the Law perfectly, as several examples in the New Testament, and still not have their hearts in the right place, because they lived the Law as a set of rules. I think the Law shows us what we should live like, but only God's grace can bring it to life in us.

And what I mean by that is, we live the right way because it's pouring out from us, and not because we're being told what to do. Living by a Law is sort of like doing something in order to avoid punishment or earn a reward. But when the Law is living in you, you do something because you love doing it, and because,you can't do it any other way, even if the results are negative (thinking of martyrs who were persecuted for doing what is right & good).

Ok - I need to quit. It's hard to think straight after immersing myself in foolish and silly smilies! For the unrighteous like myself, I still need the law.

[Anthony]

I see in the New Testament a lot of references to law, commandments and righteousness. I don't remember any references to moral codes, though I will look it up. I prefer to stick to the vocabulary used by the sacred texts, which is presumably given to us for a reason. These scriptural and traditional words (torah, ts'dakah etc) are much richer, and somehow luminous if that makes sense. (I don't mean to imply that they are any less demanding.)

Anthony, the unrighteous and transgressor of the law.

[Antonios]

Dear friends,

I think the discussion has stumbled unto mere differences in semantics. The commandments of Christ are called nonsense to some, codes of coduct for others, and for His saints, very life itself.

We are to curse the deceiver, fully knowing we cannot succeed without the Lord's mercy.

someone who has been accused of being a un-Christian,
Antonios

[Anthony]

I think the discussion has stumbled unto mere differences in semantics.

This expression always amuses me - as if meaning is of no importance. It is particularly ironic if you know Greek (as I'm sure you do).

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

But yet there was for many centuries the legacy of St Constantine's conversion and the Empire being identified with the Church. This lasted through to recent times. Although the transition to what we know now was probably a lot more gradual than I often describe (we all woke up on Jan 1 1970 self-sufficient and autonomous) the point is that those who have grown up post 1960s really live in a very different world from what preceded it.

But the question raised here is of great importance. The Church, in one way or another, profoundly affected the whole of society up until recent times. But yet the temptation always was a drift into external behaviour with little understanding of the inner reasons for a particular way of life. Looking back on it I think this is the gradual transition that occurred pre-1970s; basically the living of a moral code with little understanding of its actual purpose or what it needed to be grounded in.

Lack of a cultural moral code such as was the driving force of the society known by our grandparents or earlier has had a very profound effect on us. Basically our culture is far more self absorbed than previously.

On the other hand though any resistance to this requires a far more martyric effort and thus is of great benefit.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Nina]

It is true that the moral code - the Ten commandments - the Law - are still important. But one can follow the Law perfectly, as several examples in the New Testament, and still not have their hearts in the right place, because they lived the Law as a set of rules. I think the Law shows us what we should live like, but only God's grace can bring it to life in us.

And what I mean by that is, we live the right way because it's pouring out from us, and not because we're being told what to do. Living by a Law is sort of like doing something in order to avoid punishment or earn a reward. But when the Law is living in you, you do something because you love doing it, and because,you can't do it any other way, even if the results are negative (thinking of martyrs who were persecuted for doing what is right & good).


I think you hit the nail on the head; and what you say was my point also.

We read in the Fathers that they do things out of love for God and not out of fear. To simplify and explain this: I can understand this very well because once upon a time when I was a child I obeyed to my parents and listened to everything they said out of love for them.

But this obedience out of love and which was very natural for me at that stage left with the innocence (purity of the soul) of childhood. For instance when I was a teen my parents were forbidding me to stay with a couple of school-friends, who had already boyfriends and were doing some other things in addition to that. I did not really mind what my school-friends were doing in their private lives, because I reasoned, as long as I did not allow it to affect me I did not see a problem, but I really obeyed my parents in this case out of fear. And certain things that happened to these school-friends later proved my parents very right. Therefore I did the right thing still, but out of fear and not out of love and complete trust and reliance on their correct judgment. This obedience is good, but it is not perfect when compared to the one before.

Saints who are exemplars of a Christian life, obeyed out of love for God, therefore it is a nature (natural) to them to not only obey the Commandments (actually this is a given because they have passed the stage of purification), but to take the obedience even higher and this transforms them and deifies them. This is why Christianity is more than a set of moral code.

[Nina]

Saints who are exemplars of a Christian life, obeyed out of love for God, therefore it is a nature (natural) to them to not only obey the Commandments (actually this is a given because they have passed the stage of purification), but to take the obedience even higher and this transforms them and deifies them. This is why Christianity is more than a set of moral code.

To explain this further I asked the help of St. Nikodimos of Mount Athos, who explains perfectly our purpose of existence and what should be natural (a nature by grace) for us:


Man was created in the image and likeness of God. “In the image” [kat’ eikona] means that, just as God is Intellect [Nous] and rules everything and is able to do anything He wills, so also is the soul noetic [noeros] and rules over all the visible creatures and is free to do anything it wills. “In the likeness” [kath’ homoisin] means that just as God has all the virtues by nature, so also man, acquiring the virtues by grace, becomes like God through the faculty of his free will.

[Antonios]

This expression always amuses me - as if meaning is of no importance. It is particularly ironic if you know Greek (as I'm sure you do).
Dear Anthony,

Forgive me for my post. I did not mean to say that meaning is of no importance. I was trying to reconcile Owen and Nina's points and it came out awkward. I will be more careful in future posts. Thank you for making me realize this.

In Christ, Antonios

[Anthony]

Dear Antonios,

Please forgive me, I did not mean to come across as criticizing you in any way. I was actually being a bit flippant, and must try to be more careful and considerate to those who read my posts.

In Christ,
Anthony

[Antonios]

Dear Anthony,

We should therefore consider ourselves forgiven! Thank you my brother! :)

In Christ,
Antonios