Who sends people to hell?

[Olympiada]

Recently I have been struggling with people elsewhere who seem to be "damning themselves to hell". Someone got in a flurry about someone else "praying someone to hell" and then someone said that our prayers must be in accordance with the will of God. Well, who sends people to hell if not God? I realize that is not proper that we pray that God send someone to hell, and I am sure this other person already knew that, but it is an interesting point. Who does send people to hell and why?

[Nina]

[...] Someone got in a flurry about someone else "praying someone to hell" [...] I realize that is not proper that we pray that God send someone to hell, and I am sure this other person already knew that, but it is an interesting point.

Wow! I never knew this can be classified as prayer! I thought when people send someone to hell through their words, that is called cursing as in placing a cruse on someone. And it is strictly forbidden. I have heard from pious women that the person that curses can not dissolve after death and it is a great suffering for the soul. They told me stories of people who could not, but when the bishop came and read the prayer of forgiveness on them they immediately dissolved. Since we usually do not go around digging up corpses (although there is a tradition of exhuming the body after 3 years to see for the purpose mentioned above) in our days it might be wise to refrain from cursing other people as much as possible. It might be difficult but try to advise that person that does it, to try to not do it... he/she is harming her/his own soul... placing curses/sending ppl to hell through words is not a prayer and definitely something not pleasing to God, Who loves us all and wants us all saved.

Sorry if I explained something you already knew and are not necessarily asking about, but that is what I have been taught and wanted to emphasize the important lesson of Orthodoxy that cursing is a grave sin and not prayer.

[Andreas Moran]

In the context of the problem of unanswered prayer, let's hope that in such cases the prayers are not answered!

[Nicolaj]

Dear Olympiada,

God does not send anyone to hell, this is the own choice people make during their life.

Remember! God is love!

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

[Father David Moser]

When we live in sin, separated from God, we are already in hell (though we may not be aware of it). God does not "send" us there, we are already there. What God has done is come and rescued us and offered to all mankind the opportunity and means to escape hell.

Fr David Moser

[Michael Stickles]

Sounds very much like the lines from the second verse of Michael Card's song "Who Can Abide" (from his album "The Word"):


The Valley of Decision
Begins to overflow
With some confused, bewildered
And some who seem to know
That this sad separation
Was their choice, so they can tell
He simply speaks the sentence
That they have passed upon themselves

In Christ,
Mike

[Kypreos]

I have heard from pious women that the person that curses can not dissolve after death and it is a great suffering for the soul. They told me stories of people who could not, but when the bishop came and read the prayer of forgiveness on them they immediately dissolved.

The book "Saint Arsenios The Cappadocian" by Elder Paisios of Mount Athos gives an example of this:

"One day when he [Ioannis Karaousoglou] had gone to his field, he found one wall of the enclosure had been pulled down and a human corpse, which had been buried at the end of the wall, was exposed. The corpse of this person had not decomposed, and it seemed that it had been buried years before, because the clothing looked old-fashioned. Ioannis, who was terrified, went to Father Arsenios and told him about it. He set off immediately, and other Farasiotes accompanied him.

As soon as Father Arsenios saw the undecomposed corpse, he told the young men to dig a fresh grave and he read prayers over the dead man. When the grave was ready, they buried him again and left. On the way, as they were leaving, Father Arsenios said to them: 'Don't worry. You'll see, in three days he'll have decomposed.'

And indeed, when they went back three days later, the soil had sunk right down to the bottom, and the grave looked like a hollow, because all the man's flesh had decomposed and only the bones remained" Pg 114.

[Nina]

The book "Saint Arsenios The Cappadocian" by Elder Paisios of Mount Athos gives an example of this:

"One day when he [Ioannis Karaousoglou] had gone to his field, he found one wall of the enclosure had been pulled down and a human corpse, which had been buried at the end of the wall, was exposed. The corpse of this person had not decomposed, and it seemed that it had been buried years before, because the clothing looked old-fashioned. Ioannis, who was terrified, went to Father Arsenios and told him about it. He set off immediately, and other Farasiotes accompanied him.

As soon as Father Arsenios saw the undecomposed corpse, he told the young men to dig a fresh grave and he read prayers over the dead man. When the grave was ready, they buried him again and left. On the way, as they were leaving, Father Arsenios said to them: 'Don't worry. You'll see, in three days he'll have decomposed.'

And indeed, when they went back three days later, the soil had sunk right down to the bottom, and the grave looked like a hollow, because all the man's flesh had decomposed and only the bones remained" Pg 114.

Ah thank you! I gave my copy of that book to a friend so now I do not have it here - but thank you for reminding me of this story also because I love that book! And in Greece people believe that when someone curses that one does not dissolve after dying and the soul suffers great torments.

[Albert Hein]

Recently I have been struggling with people elsewhere who seem to be "damning themselves to hell". Someone got in a flurry about someone else "praying someone to hell" and then someone said that our prayers must be in accordance with the will of God. Well, who sends people to hell if not God? I realize that is not proper that we pray that God send someone to hell, and I am sure this other person already knew that, but it is an interesting point. Who does send people to hell and why?

You answered your own question. You said people "seem to be daming themselves." That's your answer.

[Paul Cowan]

The book "Saint Arsenios The Cappadocian" by Elder Paisios of Mount Athos gives an example of this:

"One day when he [Ioannis Karaousoglou] had gone to his field, he found one wall of the enclosure had been pulled down and a human corpse, which had been buried at the end of the wall, was exposed. The corpse of this person had not decomposed, and it seemed that it had been buried years before, because the clothing looked old-fashioned. Ioannis, who was terrified, went to Father Arsenios and told him about it. He set off immediately, and other Farasiotes accompanied him.

As soon as Father Arsenios saw the undecomposed corpse, he told the young men to dig a fresh grave and he read prayers over the dead man. When the grave was ready, they buried him again and left. On the way, as they were leaving, Father Arsenios said to them: 'Don't worry. You'll see, in three days he'll have decomposed.'

And indeed, when they went back three days later, the soil had sunk right down to the bottom, and the grave looked like a hollow, because all the man's flesh had decomposed and only the bones remained" Pg 114.

Why would they not have regarded this person as a saint for not haivng decomposed? It sounds contrary to what I have heard especially from Athos.

[Vasiliki D.]

Why would they not have regarded this person as a saint for not haivng decomposed? It sounds contrary to what I have heard especially from Athos.

Its not actually :-) There are special prayers that the monks use to ascertain the nature behind why the body has not decomposed. Once the prayers are read, God reveals if the body is a Saint since the body remains as it is. If the person needed the prayers for "release" from something .. a curse or some bad deed preventing the decomposition then whatever that reason the prayers release it from that.

Who said everyone who goes to Mt Athos is holy? Misconception ...they are human like us and fight struggles ...not all of them make it.


Oh, the other thing I have heard is the body of a saint has a different look and smell to a person who merely has not decomposed because of some reason.

[Paul Cowan]

I guess that goes along with what they told me. I was told after three years they dig up the bodies and if any are found to be incorrupt, they call the Holy synod together and they hold services over the body. I was not told what happens after that. My assupmtion was they were sainted by fact of not being corrupted.

[Vasiliki D.]

I guess that goes along with what they told me. I was told after three years they dig up the bodies and if any are found to be incorrupt, they call the Holy synod together and they hold services over the body. I was not told what happens after that. My assupmtion was they were sainted by fact of not being corrupted.

Sainting is a special kettle of fish ... I think we should open a new thread about it so we can talk about the procedures and steps that they follow??

[Kusanagi]

Recently I have been struggling with people elsewhere who seem to be "damning themselves to hell". Someone got in a flurry about someone else "praying someone to hell" and then someone said that our prayers must be in accordance with the will of God. Well, who sends people to hell if not God? I realize that is not proper that we pray that God send someone to hell, and I am sure this other person already knew that, but it is an interesting point. Who does send people to hell and why?

I would say you end of sending yourself to hell, if you are unrepentant of what you do, say, think etc.

[Eric Peterson]

I've read that there is a distinct difference between the kind of incorruption linked to sanctity, and that lack of decomposition linked to some kind of evil life--and, for that matter, that which is known to occur naturally or through artificial mummification.

[Christopher Dombrowski]

For one thing, yes it is true that God is the one who does the judging. There is no one else who is qualified to judge and reveal the eternal fate of human persons. However, it is most certainly not God who actually sends people to "Hell". Rather, human persons consign themselves to "Hell" by choosing a life without communion with God. In doing so, they damn themselves to torment by rejecting the ever present good One.

[Kseniya M.]

There's an underlying assumption here that Hell is a place. From my limited understanding, it is not a place. Hell is the Love of God experienced by those who do not want it, those who rejected God during this life. In this frame of reference, God is not doing anything but continuing to be Love.

-Kseniya

[Andrew Pantelli]

There's an underlying assumption here that Hell is a place. From my limited understanding, it is not a place. Hell is the Love of God experienced by those who do not want it, those who rejected God during this life. In this frame of reference, God is not doing anything but continuing to be Love.

-Kseniya
There are two descriptions of Hell in the bible.One is of a burning fire. Jesus often used the word Gehenna to describe Hell.It was a refuse dump outside Jerusalem that was always on fire. Jesus said Hell was a place of worms, maggots, fire and trouble.The evil ones there are full of remorse and torment. (Mark 9:43-48)
Jesus also said that Hell would be "outer darkness......weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 8:12) Here the image is one of terrible loneliness : seperation from God and man.
God is also omnipresent.

[Christopher Dombrowski]

Here the image is one of terrible loneliness : seperation from God and man.

However, I'm pretty sure that this loneliness and severance from God is to be understood as the lack of proper communion with God resulting from rejecting the love of God and neighbor, rather than any actual distance or separation or lack of experience of the presence of God and neighbor.

[Vasiliki D.]

There's an underlying assumption here that Hell is a place. From my limited understanding, it is not a place. Hell is the Love of God experienced by those who do not want it, those who rejected God during this life. In this frame of reference, God is not doing anything but continuing to be Love.

-Kseniya

Dear Kseniya,

Such an interesting discussion. I have heard many exegesis over the years and usually two things stand out for me:

1) Heaven and Hell appear to be descriptions for the "temporary place" where the souls (not bodies) of men "rest" until the final judgement of man after the Second Coming of Christ.

2) The Kingdom of God appears to be the description for the "permanent place" of soul and body after the final judgement.

Jesus Christ is already resurrected we are not ... as the Resurrected Christ he has taken on our material flesh and is no longer separate to it and has resurrected this flesh in His Kingdom ... so, this says to me that there is a *type* of *material* world but the schema of that material world is not to our understanding ...

This is purely my opinion of course but its based on years of listening to the theological priests ... our very own resurrection includes body hence ... how far our apostacy is from God is not just a "spiritual" chasm but it must also be a "material" chasm of a 'renewed schema' ....

[Kseniya M.]

Interesting thoughts. I confess to not having read a great deal about the eschaton. However, I do know one thing -- God is everywhere present and filling all things (omnipresent). Therefore, it still could be that either way, Hell is the experience of God for those who don't want Him.

It's perhaps a poor analogy, but even in this life, anywhere my husband is, is where I would rather be -- so how could anywhere that God is, be Hell for someone who loves Him? OTOH, when I'm angry with my husband, being in the same room with him is irritating. If I hated him, it could be torment. How much more so would it be with God?

I would be happy to hear what more knowledgeable folks think on this.

-Kseniya

[Christopher Dombrowski]

Interesting thoughts. I confess to not having read a great deal about the eschaton. However, I do know one thing -- God is everywhere present and filling all things (omnipresent). Therefore, it still could be that either way, Hell is the experience of God for those who don't want Him.

It's perhaps a poor analogy, but even in this life, anywhere my husband is, is where I would rather be -- so how could anywhere that God is, be Hell for someone who loves Him? OTOH, when I'm angry with my husband, being in the same room with him is irritating. If I hated him, it could be torment. How much more so would it be with God?

I would be happy to hear what more knowledgeable folks think on this.

-Kseniya

I think God's omnipresence being the torment of the damned is a theme that EO generally agree upon.

[Andrew Pantelli]

However, I'm pretty sure that this loneliness and severance from God is to be understood as the lack of proper communion with God resulting from rejecting the love of God and neighbor, rather than any actual distance or separation or lack of experience of the presence of God and neighbor.
Luke 16:19-31. Verse 22.To a Jew Abraham's bosom suggests the honored place in Paradise ( see John 13:23 ) The beggar received a special welcome in heaven and was seated besides Abraham. The term also apparently may have been used to describe the segment of Hades reserved for the righteous (until following Jesus resurrection) Verses 23,24 tells us that Hades is the abode of the dead. The description leaves us in no doubt that the rich man was in a place of eternal punishment. The Pharisees were constantly demanding signs from Jesus to prove His messiahship. Not only did they reject the scriptual evidence concerning Him, which was sufficient in itself, but they did not receive the witness of the Resurrection, the greatest miracle of all!

In Christ Alone Andy xxx

[Christopher Dombrowski]

Luke 16:19-31. Verse 22.To a Jew Abraham's bosom suggests the honored place in Paradise ( see John 13:23 ) The beggar received a special welcome in heaven and was seated besides Abraham. The term also apparently may have been used to describe the segment of Hades reserved for the righteous (until following Jesus resurrection) Verses 23,24 tells us that Hades is the abode of the dead. The description leaves us in no doubt that the rich man was in a place of eternal punishment. The Pharisees were constantly demanding signs from Jesus to prove His messiahship. Not only did they reject the scriptual evidence concerning Him, which was sufficient in itself, but they did not receive the witness of the Resurrection, the greatest miracle of all!

In Christ Alone Andy xxx

Um... ok. I'm not quite understanding where or how that relates to my post...

[John Gfoeller]

There's an underlying assumption here that Hell is a place. From my limited understanding, it is not a place. Hell is the Love of God experienced by those who do not want it, those who rejected God during this life. In this frame of reference, God is not doing anything but continuing to be Love.

-Kseniya


That is a brilliant insight. The Psalmist said there is no place we can go to escape God. And God does not change.

It reminds me of God's revelation to the Prophet Moses at the Burning Bush. He revealed Himself as Flames . . . that did not consume the bush. It made me wonder, concerning the flames of hell, whether this is the same fire of God's love, and whether the only difference is to welcome Him or reject Him?

[Kseniya M.]

The Psalmist said there is no place we can go to escape God. And God does not change.

It reminds me of God's revelation to the Prophet Moses at the Burning Bush. He revealed Himself as Flames . . . that did not consume the bush. It made me wonder, concerning the flames of hell, whether this is the same fire of God's love, and whether the only difference is to welcome Him or reject Him?

I think the only difference is whether we freely accept or freely reject God.

My friend Vasiliki pointed out to me, after the Last Judgment, we will have bodies. So Hell might indeed be some sort of place, since a physical body occupies space. I'm not clear on the nature of Hell, but I'm not so sure it really matters. Wherever the damned go, I'm still of the mind that a big part of the torment they experience is the love of a compassionate Father Who will never stop loving them. If it is true (and it must be, for the Church teaches it) that God is everywhere present and fills all things, then He also fills Hell, wherever or whatever that is. That surely will torment those who rejected God.

-Kseniya

[Vasiliki D.]

I think the only difference is whether we freely accept or freely reject God.

My friend Vasiliki pointed out to me, after the Last Judgment, we will have bodies. So Hell might indeed be some sort of place, since a physical body occupies space. I'm not clear on the nature of Hell, but I'm not so sure it really matters. Wherever the damned go, I'm still of the mind that a big part of the torment they experience is the love of a compassionate Father Who will never stop loving them. If it is true (and it must be, for the Church teaches it) that God is everywhere present and fills all things, then He also fills Hell, wherever or whatever that is. That surely will torment those who rejected God.

-Kseniya

Yes, exactly. It goes without saying that the noetic component is so much more important than the physical reality of the situation. Our church teaches us to make our bodies slaves to our souls and not our souls to our bodies ... our church does teach that we believe in the Resurrection of the dead - body and soul (these are not my thoughts) hence ... there is "something materialistic" beyond the "schema" of this world but what is more important is the spiritual ...if you can reach that level to be found worthy of God's mercy - then the lovely "benefit" is that your body will also be renewed - I mean, we are talking on another thread about whether animals are sanctified along with saints and we can not fathom that our own bodies will be with us? come on guys! :)

There are many texts that refer to Hell as a physical reality ... its only a recent phenomenon to try to push away that existance OR it might be that the Holy Spirit is enlightening us to a higher standard of understanding.

Either way ... who cares? Like Kseniya says what is important is that we are found worthy to partake of God's love ... and that happens now!

I hope we can sort of find some writings though ..it would be good to compliment the discussion with something more ... I can think of Saint Andrew the Fool for Christ who was caught up into the heavens and was also shown where the souls of sinners - to me, his testimony is enough but others may not be so convinced since a lot of people question if Saint Andrew the Fool for Christ was real (I think this is a western invention that has also purputrated into the Orthodox too)

... and there is also another testimony of a man (recently) being caught up in his sleep ... and in that story he also visited hell ... when he woke up he thought it was a bad dream but noticed that his hand had actually been burnt and realised it was real - does anyone know this and point me to the book cause I cant remember where I read it.

[Ken McRae]

Matt 7:15-23

15: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16: Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17: Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18: A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19: Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20: Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Question 1 - Who is it that cuts down the bad tree and casts it into the fire? Verse 19: 'Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.' Or does the tree cut itself down and cast itself into the fire too?

Question 2 - Who is that says: 'Depart from me, ye that work iniquity'? And are those words of love for the ones being asked to depart? The words 'Come to me' have a greater ring of love in my ears.

Matt 25:41-46

41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44: Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45: Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Question 3 - Verse 41: 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire.' Again I ask, are these the words of love? Are they the words of one who desires these cursed ones to come to Him, rather than go to the devil?

Question 4 - In both of the above instances, are not those who are told depart from the Lord, seeking entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven, and thereby manifesting a desire to abide eternally in the Love of God?

[Kseniya M.]

I think a better question is, What are your own answers to these questions?

I don't profess to be any kind of a theologian, but I don't think "Depart from me" has any less love in it than "Come to me." By their lives, by their works, by their rejection of Christ's teachings, the accursed chose their reward, and so now, because He loves them, He gives them their reward.

God is true love. Jesus Christ, the Word, is true love. "He who has seen me has seen the Father." "I and my Father are one." Can the Word then say anything which is not true love? How can one say that this phrase of His is not a true word of love, when this other phrase is? By the way it falls upon our mortal understanding?

Come to me, for you did the will of My Father, and I will give you the reward promised from the beginning of the world.

Depart from me, for you did your own will, and now I must send you away, for your choices have made you unable to bear My glory and the glories of Heaven.

Come to me, for you want to abide in Heaven, and you did what it took.

Depart from me, for though you may want to abide in Heaven, you didn't want it enough to do what it took.

God has commanded us to love our enemies. Does He not also do likewise? Is He not humble? Does He not love the worst sinner? The Church teaches this. We don't have to understand all of it. All I know is, God is love, and everything He does is from love, whether I understand it or not.

-Kseniya

[Ken McRae]

Psalm 5:5 - The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 11:5 - The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Prov. 6:16 - These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: ... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Sirach 12:6 - The most High hateth sinners, and will repay vengeance unto the ungodly, and keepeth them against the mighty day of their punishment.

Sirach 20:15 - He giveth little, and upbraideth much; he openeth his mouth like a crier; to day he lendeth, and to morrow will he ask it again: such an one is to be hated of God and man.

Sirach 27:24 - I have hated many things, but nothing like him; for the Lord will hate him.

Wisdom of Solomon 12:3-4 It was thy will to destroy by the hands of our fathers both those old inhabitants of thy holy land, Whom thou hatedst for doing most odious works of witchcrafts, and wicked sacrifices.

Wisdom of Solomon 14:9 - The ungodly and his ungodliness are both alike hateful unto God.

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: ... A time to love, and a time to hate.

Hosea 9:15 - All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

Malachi 1:2-3 'I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob. And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste.

Romans 9:13 - As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

[Kseniya M.]

Perhaps it would be best if, instead of proof-texting, you could provide us with some patristic texts from the fathers on what is meant by these passages. Perhaps then I could understand if you mean by them something other than what human beings mean by the term "hate."

It's my understanding that what Scripture means when it says God hates something is not the same thing we mortal human beings mean by the term. God does not hate as we hate. Of this much I am sure.

-Kseniya

[Eric Peterson]

As Fathers like St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil the Great say, Scriptural descriptions of God's being and action must be understood in a God-befitting manner, and not in a human way. Therefore, when God creates, He commands, when it says that He hates, this is something totally different than the passionate hatred we know as human beings.

Evil does not exist on its own, since it is a corruption of good. God did not create evil. Therefore, when the Lord returns and all creation is renewed and transfigured, evil will no longer exist. But those who committed evil (demons and people) are eternal. It is God's love that spares them from destruction, even if their eternal existence is one of suffering. One can't accuse God of some kind of petty hatred or injustice in this (actually, one can't accuse God of anything--the devil keeps trying it, but to no avail). The demons were once angels, fully knowledgeable that their rebellion would end in their utter defeat and eternal suffering, and, despite this, they continue their futile war, hoping to bring human beings down with them. They fell even without temptation.

Man was tempted and fell through weakness, and has since developed a love for sin, but God provides him with even more than is needed for his repentance and restoration, in His love for mankind.

God made angels and men creatures with a free will because He wanted to receive free praise and love in response to His love. For men, this life is where we make our decision of who and what to love and praise. The judgement will be a revelation of this decision. God grant us all to make the decision at every minute to repent and love God, so that we may rejoice with Him in eternity.

[Ken McRae]

Perhaps it would be best if, instead of proof-texting, you could provide us with some patristic texts from the fathers on what is meant by these passages. Perhaps then I could understand if you mean by them something other than what human beings mean by the term "hate."

While I think the meaning of the above Scripture texts is clear, my intention was merely to point out their existence. As much as I would like to help, if you wish to know how the father's understood those texts, I'm afraid you'll need to research that on your own; unless, of course, the other members would care to post something from the fathers on them.


It's my understanding that what Scripture means when it says God hates something is not the same thing we mortal human beings mean by the term. God does not hate as we hate. Of this much I am sure.

Yes, indeed. I whole-heartedly concur with you on that. Nor does He love as we love. As He loves with a perfect love, so does he hate with a perfect hatred; the Esau's of this world, who sell their birth-right for a piece of red-meat, figuratively speaking, of course. The fact is: Scripture is crystal clear that He both loves and hates.

There is a coincidence of opposites in God. That is to say, all opposites are harmonized and united in Him. From the stand point of all creation, reality is polarized. Inherent within love, for example, is the 'potential' for its opposite; for it is only by the contrast of opposites that we can come to know anything.

[John Gfoeller]

As Fathers like St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil the Great say, Scriptural descriptions of God's being and action must be understood in a God-befitting manner, and not in a human way. Therefore, when God creates, He commands, when it says that He hates, this is something totally different than the passionate hatred we know as human beings.

Evil does not exist on its own, since it is a corruption of good. God did not create evil. Therefore, when the Lord returns and all creation is renewed and transfigured, evil will no longer exist. But those who committed evil (demons and people) are eternal. It is God's love that spares them from destruction, even if their eternal existence is one of suffering. One can't accuse God of some kind of petty hatred or injustice in this (actually, one can't accuse God of anything--the devil keeps trying it, but to no avail). The demons were once angels, fully knowledgeable that their rebellion would end in their utter defeat and eternal suffering, and, despite this, they continue their futile war, hoping to bring human beings down with them. They fell even without temptation.

Man was tempted and fell through weakness, and has since developed a love for sin, but God provides him with even more than is needed for his repentance and restoration, in His love for mankind.

God made angels and men creatures with a free will because He wanted to receive free praise and love in response to His love. For men, this life is where we make our decision of who and what to love and praise. The judgement will be a revelation of this decision. God grant us all to make the decision at every minute to repent and love God, so that we may rejoice with Him in eternity.

Amen !

That was a good post.

I would add what Bishop Kallistos Ware observed in his book, "The Orthodox Way"
-- the gates of hell lock from the inside.

May we all choose to accept the grace of eternal life.

-- John

[Peter S.]

Psalm 5:5 - The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 11:5 - The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Prov. 6:16 - These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: ... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Sirach 12:6 - The most High hateth sinners, and will repay vengeance unto the ungodly, and keepeth them against the mighty day of their punishment.

Sirach 20:15 - He giveth little, and upbraideth much; he openeth his mouth like a crier; to day he lendeth, and to morrow will he ask it again: such an one is to be hated of God and man.

Sirach 27:24 - I have hated many things, but nothing like him; for the Lord will hate him.

Wisdom of Solomon 12:3-4 It was thy will to destroy by the hands of our fathers both those old inhabitants of thy holy land, Whom thou hatedst for doing most odious works of witchcrafts, and wicked sacrifices.

Wisdom of Solomon 14:9 - The ungodly and his ungodliness are both alike hateful unto God.

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: ... A time to love, and a time to hate.

Hosea 9:15 - All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

Malachi 1:2-3 'I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob. And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste.

Romans 9:13 - As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

We shall hate evil and love good. These are the commandments of God who is love.

Peter

[Andreas Moran]

When I see words such as 'hate' quoted from the Bible, I wonder what the Greek original (LXX or NT) word is and what its meaning and resonance really convey. Then again, if we quote from the KJV we have to bear in mind that the meaning of the word may have shifted since 1611.

[Peter S.]

I dont know much greek, but hate maybe also can be 'reject'.

[Fr Michael Monos]

When I see words such as 'hate' quoted from the Bible, I wonder what the Greek original (LXX or NT) word is and what its meaning and resonance really convey. Then again, if we quote from the KJV we have to bear in mind that the meaning of the word may have shifted since 1611.

The references in Eccl. 3:1-8, Prov. 6:16, Sirach 27:24, Wis. Sol. 12:3-4, Rom. 9:13, use a form of the verb misew, which means: hate; (1) of hostility of people for each other hate, detest.

Sirach 20:15, uses the adj. misitos, which means: hateful, hated, despicable

etc...

[Vasiliki D.]

I would like to supply this:


Jesus said, "No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other." Matthew 6:19-21,24