For those unable to fast...

[Salaam Yitbarek]

Hello all,

In our Ethiopian Orthodox Church, the standard fast is vegan, with nothing to eat until 3pm.

I, fortunately, have no health conditions that prevent me from fasting. But some of my nearest and dearest do. Some have to eat dairy and animal products, others cannot go for long periods without food.

What would you recommend that they substitute, as a praxis, for fasting? Forms of meditation, prayer...?

[Father David Moser]

Hello all,

In our Ethiopian Orthodox Church, the standard fast is vegan, with nothing to eat until 3pm.

I, fortunately, have no health conditions that prevent me from fasting. But some of my nearest and dearest do. Some have to eat dairy and animal products, others cannot go for long periods without food.

What would you recommend that they substitute, as a praxis, for fasting? Forms of meditation, prayer...?

This is in essence a pastoral question and the only one who can give adequate direction is the confessor of the person who is not able to fast.

Fr David Moser

[Mourad Mankarios]

Hello all,

In our Ethiopian Orthodox Church, the standard fast is vegan, with nothing to eat until 3pm.

I, fortunately, have no health conditions that prevent me from fasting. But some of my nearest and dearest do. Some have to eat dairy and animal products, others cannot go for long periods without food.

What would you recommend that they substitute, as a praxis, for fasting? Forms of meditation, prayer...?

It would be very difficult to give direction without specific information and knowledge of the extent of the illhealth of those in question as well as their spiritual level. Therefore, Fr David definitely makes a good point. However, fasting can take diverse forms such as what you have mentioned. In addition and depending on the health of individuals a person could deny themselves from certain foods, sweets and delicacies, only consuming what is necessary for their health. Rather than fasting till 3pm you may fast till 12pm or whatever other period. One could also be on guard with regards to the quantity of food that they consume. These are suggestions that one may like to consider and discuss with a wise spiritual guide as Fr David mentions.

There are also other spiritual means that may be practised and one may be more diligent in due to their inability to properly practise the fast. These may include the reading of scripture and the spiritual writings of the fathers. One may also sing the psalmody, hymns and chants of the church or spend time in prayer and meditation. Furthermore, a person may also perform prostrations according to their ability. In addition one may spend time in silence and stillness. A person may also practise the virtue of almsgiving amongst the many other virtues which one should attempt to grow in especially during the fasting period.

[Effie Ganatsios]

As Fr. Moser has said "This is in essence a pastoral question and the only one who can give adequate direction is the confessor of the person who is not able to fast."


My spiritual father has told me that when a person has an illness (in my case, diabetes) the illness itself is regarded as a sort of substitute for fasting from food. Diabetics can fast for 40 days without meat without any ill effects, however, because meat is only allowed once a week on a diabetic diet.

http://www.orthodox.net/articles/orthodox-christian-fasting-john-chrysostom.html

I have said these things, not that we may disparage fasting, but that we may honor fasting; for the honor of fasting consists not in abstinence from food, but in withdrawing from sinful practices; since he who limits his fasting only to an abstinence from meats, is one who especially disparages it.

Dost thou fast? Give me proof of it by thy works!

Is it said by what kind of works?

If thou seest a poor man, take pity on him!

If thou seest an enemy, be reconciled to him!

If thou seest a friend gaining honor, envy him not!

If thou seest a handsome woman, pass her by!

For let not the mouth only fast, but also the eye, and ear, and the feet, and the hands, and all the members of our bodies.

Let the hands fast, by being pure from rapine and avarice.

Let the feet fast, but ceasing from running to the unlawful spectacles.

Let the eyes fast, being taught never to fix themselves rudely upon handsome countenances, or to busy themselves with strange beauties.

For looking is the food of the eyes, but if this be such as is unlawful or forbidden, it mars the fast; and upsets the whole safety of the soul; but if it be lawful and safe, it adorns fasting.

For it would be among things the most absurd to abstain from lawful food because of the fast, but with the eyes to touch even what is forbidden. Dost thou not eat flesh? Feed not upon lasciviousness by means of the eyes.

Let the ear fast also. The fasting of the ear consists in refusing to receive evil speakings and calumnies. "Thou shalt not receive a false report," it says.

From "The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church," Volume 9.


http://www.monachos.net/library/On_the_Nativity_Fast_-_Preparation_of_the_Soul

[Nicolaj]

Why fast at all, it doesn't change anything.

In the early days fasting had has it's authorisation, while times were bad and people didn't had enough to eat. So it was only proper at that time to fast, to save for times were change to better.

Nowadays it is clear that there is enough for everybody to eat and to buy, so there is no real need for fasting any more. If Jesus would live nowadays he would probably change his abstinence to television or cell phones, something more contemporary to fast.

So we don't have to make such a big thing about fasting, in RC not many do fast any more and this religion is about the largest on earth! And we don't need to seek excuses no more.

Giving alms is also not contemporary ! The poor have the social welfare and other organisations to take care and they are in no real need any more.

And also much more is not at the pulse of time, so why by in the Orthodox Church after all?

In Christ, Nicolaj

[Mary]

Why fast at all, it doesn't change anything.

In the early days fasting had has it's authorisation, while times were bad and people didn't had enough to eat. So it was only proper at that time to fast, to save for times were change to better.

Nowadays it is clear that there is enough for everybody to eat and to buy, so there is no real need for fasting any more. If Jesus would live nowadays he would probably change his abstinence to television or cell phones, something more contemporary to fast.

So we don't have to make such a big thing about fasting, in RC not many do fast any more and this religion is about the largest on earth! And we don't need to seek excuses no more.

Giving alms is also not contemporary ! The poor have the social welfare and other organisations to take care and they are in no real need any more.

And also much more is not at the pulse of time, so why by in the Orthodox Church after all?

In Christ, Nicolaj

Nicolaj!! I hope you're being sarcastic here! I know you like to fast. We had an interesting discussion last month about breaking the fast to feast with our family on Thanksgiving day!

Oh, please don't confuse my frazzled brain! Fasting from the recommended foods, has done wonders for me. I didn't even have to try to 'fast' from tv - it just dropped out of my life. And I still don't have a cell phone.

I've thought of 'fasting' from the computer, but all my friends live here, and I like being with my friends, so I keep coming back.

Why be in the Orthodox church? Hmmm.... lets see... so I can fast? And do prostrations? And smell burning hair in church? ...kiss the icons and body parts of ancient saints? ... standing till my feet disappear? ... so I can start celebrating Christmas after everyone else is done? Definitely nothing better than warm wine with my antidoron. How could I forget... confession!

Maybe it's the rebel in me, that makes it so easy for me to love all the contrary things of Orthodoxy.

In Christ, Mary

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Nicolaj!! I hope you're being sarcastic here! I know you like to fast. We had an interesting discussion last month about breaking the fast to feast with our family on Thanksgiving day!

Oh, please don't confuse my frazzled brain! Fasting from the recommended foods, has done wonders for me. I didn't even have to try to 'fast' from tv - it just dropped out of my life. And I still don't have a cell phone.

I've thought of 'fasting' from the computer, but all my friends live here, and I like being with my friends, so I keep coming back.

Why be in the Orthodox church? Hmmm.... lets see... so I can fast? And do prostrations? And smell burning hair in church? ...kiss the icons and body parts of ancient saints? ... standing till my feet disappear? ... so I can start celebrating Christmas after everyone else is done? Definitely nothing better than warm wine with my antidoron. How could I forget... confession!

Maybe it's the rebel in me, that makes it so easy for me to love all the contrary things of Orthodoxy.

In Christ, Mary


Thanks for this post Mary. It sure raised my spirits!

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Salaam Yitbarek]

Hello everyone,

Thank you for your answers.

I understand that the ultimate direction comes from the priest, but I wanted to get an idea from others about what specific practices are available.

Some of you have mentioned prayers, meditations, prostration, fasting from things other than food. What I was looking for is whether these exist in specific prescriptions, like the fast. In other words, there's a standardized fast about which you do not have to ask your priest every time. Do these other practices also exist in such a standardized fashion? Like we have seven sacraments, are there the x such practices?

Thanks.

[Effie Ganatsios]

Hello everyone,

Thank you for your answers.

I understand that the ultimate direction comes from the priest, but I wanted to get an idea from others about what specific practices are available.

Some of you have mentioned prayers, meditations, prostration, fasting from things other than food. What I was looking for is whether these exist in specific prescriptions, like the fast. In other words, there's a standardized fast about which you do not have to ask your priest every time. Do these other practices also exist in such a standardized fashion? Like we have seven sacraments, are there the x such practices?

Thanks.

We have our fasting periods in which we know that we have to fast not only from food but try and keep the fast as we have been instructed to do by the Church Fathers (there are many texts available on the Orthodox sites in addition to the one I posted the link to).

We do not have to ask our priest about fasting unless we have a specific query e.g. health concerns.

Effie

[Mary]

Some of you have mentioned prayers, meditations, prostration, fasting from things other than food. What I was looking for is whether these exist in specific prescriptions, like the fast. In other words, there's a standardized fast about which you do not have to ask your priest every time. Do these other practices also exist in such a standardized fashion? Like we have seven sacraments, are there the x such practices?

Thanks.

Dear Salaam,

Aside from the basic fasting, there cannot be specific prescriptions regarding the rest of the things suggested, since all the rest depend on the individual, to a greater degree. For example, it would be quite useless to tell someone to not watch TV during Lent, if they don't watch TV at all. The reverse is also true. If there's someone who cannot do prostrations at all, it would do him no good if he's told he must do 10 everyday.

So, the priest has to assess the situations of those who cannot keep the basic fast, and give them their own specific rule, which they have to keep at every fast, unless they get really good at it and reveiw it with him, and make it harder for the next time.

At least, that's the way I see it in my logic. Since I have no concerns that keep from doing the basic fasts, I do not know from experience, how such things are handled.

In Christ,
Mary.

[Nicolaj]

Of course it was sarcastic!

And I like very much that one from you with the smell of burned hair! Had so much to laugh about this..
I do love to fast, you are right. And as I once had to confess my Father that I had fallen into sin by tasting something not allowed, he was so sad, and after this I do love to fast even more, because now I know this also does pleases our Lord.

But of course those who are ill and so on, they cannot fast, because that would be like committing suicide. But they all should ask there Father about an appropriate solution for their fasting. He will know what the best is to do for them.

Christos voskrese, Nicolaj

[Father Serafim]

<Maybe it's the rebel in me, that makes it so easy for me to love all the contrary things of Orthodoxy. > me too! What a wonderful gift from God so that we can draw nearer to Him, without the belly getting in the way.

[Mary]

<Maybe it's the rebel in me, that makes it so easy for me to love all the contrary things of Orthodoxy. > me too! What a wonderful gift from God so that we can draw nearer to Him, without the belly getting in the way.

Oh, how I wish my belly hadn't gotten itself attached to my mind! I've had a hard fast this time. I've been craving all kinds of creamy, sweet, buttery desserts, all this, inspite of the fact that I'm getting better at Vegan foods. There's a simple vegetable soup I make a lot because all four of us like it a lot. Yesterday, my son asked me how it is that plain vegetable soup could taste so good. I told him, it's God gift to us. So, we love our vegan foods. Then why do I want a cookie, some cake, some doughnuts, and cheesecake?


Of course it was sarcastic!

And I like very much that one from you with the smell of burned hair! Had so much to laugh about this..
I do love to fast, you are right. Christos voskrese, Nicolaj

I'm glad you were being sarchastic! =)

It was my daughter's hair. Her first time, so she got scared. After she got over her scare, she whispered to me: "Is it just me, or does something smell really bad in here?" =) Hopefully, we'll have one less person playing with lit candles in church!

Have you ever wondered, if we're truly fasting, when our vegan foods start turning gourmet, and really, really delicious? During Bright earlier this year, I didn't want to cook any meat. And then, I thought, maybe it would be wrong to keep eating vegan food during a fast free week, so I found something to cook.

You know, I never thought of asking anyone that. Is it wrong to eat fasting foods during fast free weeks?

In Christ, Mary.

[Paul Cowan]

<Maybe it's the rebel in me, that makes it so easy for me to love all the contrary things of Orthodoxy. > me too! What a wonderful gift from God so that we can draw nearer to Him, without the belly getting in the way.

Please don't look at my plate. I have failed miserably this season. Truthfully, I have not even tried to fast. Lazyness, carelessness, you name it, I have made an excuse for it.

Pray for me.

[Irene]

Dear Salaam Yitbarek and Monachos community,

We all try to guard ourself from falling into the fault of the Pharisees. Our fasting it is a tool, a wonderful tool, one of many, for our salvation. There are those who fast very well, and there are others that fast in a much less restrictive way.

A person of ill health does not have the same strength that a healthy person has, it can not be expected for them to fast in the same way. The same with a new convert, they should not be expected or expect themselves to fast as strictly as a seasoned, healthy person. If one of these people has the gift of illness and the ability to fast strictly, good luck to them, they are surely blessed, but it is not the same for everyone.

From what I have gleaned from listening to the wisdom of others over the years, it is what is in our heart that is important, the love for Christ and the Church, for our brothers and sisters in Christ and for our enemies also. Striving for humility and kindness, patience, learning not to ever judge another. If a person has a health problem it is strengthening them spiritually in a way that a healthy person can not truly understand. A person who can not fast because of their illness already has their Cross.

If a person can not prostrate properly or stand properly because of their sufferings it is the same. So for these people they do what they can and an increase of prayers can strenghten them to endure their suffering, with God's help, even endure it with joy. I have an Orthodox friend who suffers much through her health and through her financial circumstances (because of her health) and she, to me, is a shining light in her faith, always an example for me to look up to.

A person who needs the nutrition of non-Lenten food because of their health etc., may decide not to dress the food up with herbs, spices etc to keep it plain. Although in a lot of cases of ill health, getting food down at all is a chore, so you wouldn't worry about this measure.

In the Lenten season increasing prayer but also decreasing distractions that keep us from God is good. Removing television and worldly radio, books etc from our lives, if possible. (Although sometimes a person of ill health also suffers from loneliness by the restrictions on their life and it is hard to give up some of these). It is good if we keep Orthodox music or Orthodox radio playing in the background when we feel we "need" entertainment. If something is causing disquiet in the heart listening to the Church singing can be a huge benefit.

In the end we try our best but we are all different, we are human and faulty, and this is why we cleanse ourselves with repentance, confession and communion.

My comments are made out of love and to encourage.

In Christ
Irene

[Effie Ganatsios]

You know, I never thought of asking anyone that. Is it wrong to eat fasting foods during fast free weeks?

In Christ, Mary.

How can this be wrong, Mary. All food is from God and his natural food is fasting food. Fruit, vegetables, grains. On one of the Orthodox sites I read an article about fasting and even though, technically, lobster and other very expensive foods are considered suitable for our fasting period, eating a large plateful of lobster is considered unsuitable although technically correct. It is, however, not in the spirit of what fasting is all about. Just a normal diet without meat and dairy products is not only healthy but also within the rules.

I also read a medical report concerning Orthodox monks and nuns and apparently their levels of cholesterol and whatever are considerable lower than the levels of other groups of people who never fast.

Fasting is not only good for our souls, it is also good for our health.

Today I am cooking lentil soup. Is there anything more delicious than this? In the weekly diet my diabetic dietician has compiled for me, once a week I am supposed to have either lentils or dry beans. So lentil soup is something we have at least once every two weeks during the year.

To be quite honest though, I also find fasting quite difficult although I try. A hot glass of milk is one of my favourite things, especially when I sprinkle a few grains of coffee on top.

Effie

My recipe for lentil soup :

Bring lentils to the boil and then strain them. Wash with cold water, strain and put them back into the saucepan.

Fill saucepan with cold water, bring lentils to the boil and then add 2 large finely chopped onions, 2-3 cloves of garlic finely chopped , 2 finely chopped tomatoes, simmer until lentils are very soft and the soup has thickened. Add some tomato paste, 2-3 bay leaves, salt, pepper and some oregano. Simmer another 1/2 hour or so. Add virgin olive oil 10 minutes before end (this can be omitted if you are fasting from olive oil).

When serving you can add a tablespoon of vinegar in which you have crushed some garlic, to each plate. Some people like this, some don't.

Lentils : some lentils never soften and thicken the soup even though they have been boiling for hours and hours. Depends on type and farming conditions. When this happens, throw the whole thing away and cook something else very quickly - pasta???????

[Paul Cowan]

[QUOTE=
Lentils : some lentils never soften and thicken the soup even though they have been boiling for hours and hours. Depends on type and farming conditions. When this happens, throw the whole thing away and cook something else very quickly - pasta???????[/QUOTE]

The only reason I throw anything away after slaving over a hot stove for hours and hours is because I typically leave it and come here to start typing and then forget I was cooking. The result is a burned mass filling the house and sirens going off in every room as the smoke detectors once again tell Leah I am on Monachos.

Paul

[Mary]

The only reason I throw anything away after slaving over a hot stove for hours and hours is because I typically leave it and come here to start typing and then forget I was cooking. The result is a burned mass filling the house and sirens going off in every room as the smoke detectors once again tell Leah I am on Monachos.

Paul

LOL! That's funny =) I never throw anything away either. If something goes wrong, I'm reminded of why I never liked to cook in the first place. And I eat my horrible food and spread the misery around by making everyone else eat it too. St Euphrosynos must've taken pity on my family, for nothing horrendous has come out of my kitchen for awhile now.

Mary

[Effie Ganatsios]

The only reason I throw anything away after slaving over a hot stove for hours and hours is because I typically leave it and come here to start typing and then forget I was cooking. The result is a burned mass filling the house and sirens going off in every room as the smoke detectors once again tell Leah I am on Monachos.

Paul

That has happened to me a couple of times - to be truthful a lot more than a couple of times!

Effie

[Irene]

I wanted to thank you Effie, for the nutritious lentil soup recipe. I can't believe we have had lentils for two days in a row now. We've never had a Lentil meal before. (I've had to slowly overcome my aversion to the texture of pulses since becoming Orthodox.)

I made a batch of soup up yesterday, served it with tuna mix sandwiches and today I decided to press the leftover soup through a sieve and then throw in the left over tuna mix, a little bit of left over rice and a bit more seasoning. It was too delicious. (Tuna mix is mixing a tin of tuna with finely chopped whatever fresh vegetables are in the house - this time it was celery and spanish onion.)

[Effie Ganatsios]

I wanted to thank you Effie, for the nutritious lentil soup recipe. I can't believe we have had lentils for two days in a row now. We've never had a Lentil meal before. (I've had to slowly overcome my aversion to the texture of pulses since becoming Orthodox.)

I made a batch of soup up yesterday, served it with tuna mix sandwiches and today I decided to press the leftover soup through a sieve and then throw in the left over tuna mix, a little bit of left over rice and a bit more seasoning. It was too delicious. (Tuna mix is mixing a tin of tuna with finely chopped whatever fresh vegetables are in the house - this time it was celery and spanish onion.)

I'm glad you enjoyed it Irene. Lentils are nutricious and delicious.

You live in Australia. Lucky, lucky you. I came back a couple of weeks ago and it seems that my stay there was just a beautiful dream I dreamt.

Happy New Year

Effie

[Irene]

You live in Australia. Lucky, lucky you. I came back a couple of weeks ago and it seems that my stay there was just a beautiful dream I dreamt.

Happy New Year

Effie

...and my dream is to visit Greece someday. Happy New Year to you too.

Irene