Having two priests?

[Jonathan Michael]

Hello everyone,

I am a British ex-pat living in Beijing and as such I have two priests: one in England, and one in China. My priest in England is the one who received me into the Orthodox church and his parish is part of the Archdiocese of Parishes of the Russian Tradition in Western Europe, under the Ecumenical Patriarch.
In China, I attend the only Orthodox church in Beijing which is inside the Russian Embassy, and so is under the Moscow Patriarch.

Both churches use the Russian rite, though the former is in English and the latter is in Old Church Slavonic, but I wonder if there is any problem in having priests under two different juristictions? A seperate but related question is, should I really have two priests anyway? It is not simply that I commune in both churches, but that I keep in contact with both priests and ask them for advice. So far, there have been no cases of conficting advice being given but I am worried that perhaps I should do something now to prevent the possibility of this happening in the future. I cannot judge these two holy men except to say that I know they are both compassionate and wise, and have shown me great kindness (and not permissive kindness, which can be spritually harmful); that is why I wonder if I should make some recourse to place myself more fully in obedience with one priest now, before I am "forced" to do so by receiving conflicting advice.

I'm sorry, I've rambled. Basically, my "home" parish (which includes my godfather) is in England, but I spend most of my time in China - and take communion more often there. So, in such a case, should I only be seeking advice from one priest - and if so, which one?

Thank you,
Jonathan

[Michael Astley]

My prayers for you, Jonathan.

It can be difficult. I went through a time, not long after coming to Orthodoxy, of receiving direction from my parish priest and a hieromonk of a monastery, with whom I had been in touch during my initial exploration of Orthodoxy while I was still Anglican. Both of them gave me direction but there were times when the particulars of their practical advice differed and I found myself sometimes choosing whose advice to follow based on my own preferences. In time, I came to realise that this is completely contrary to the spirit of spiritual direction and is simply a way of perpetuating the individualism and pride, (elevation of my own will instead of humble submission), that so often get me into difficulties. It was a also a little dishonest.

Of course, I'm not accusing you of the same thing that I fell into but I would strongly suggest sticking with only one so as to avoid this temptation altogether. You may wish to place yourself temporarily under the direction of your priest in Beijing as it is he with whom you will have regular contact while you are there. It is from his hand that you will receive the Holy Mysteries while you are there, and will hear the Faith preached. On the other hand, you may decide to treat this parish as your temporary home away from home and place yourself under the direction of your priest in the UK who knows you, has directed you in the past and has received you into the Church, and under whose direction you will presumably come upon your return to the UK. Do pray and perhaps speak with both priests about it. After all, you can still speak with the other about things occasionally so as to keep him up to speed about your spiritual journey but just not necessarily take those conversations as spiritual direction.

In one sense, it really doesn't matter which one you choose as long as you stick with one. However, in any decision you make, you should know that Bishop Basil, whom your priest in the UK will commemorate, is considered by the Moscow Patriarchate to be a retired bishop now suspended from serving the Liturgy. I only say this as it may have some bearing on your situation. These are only my own thoughts, of course, and I don't claim any authority beyond my own limited experience. I hope you find resolution soon.

With love in Christ,
Michael

[Jonathan Michael]

Thank you, Michael, for your prayers and advice.


Of course, I'm not accusing you of the same thing that I fell into but I would strongly suggest sticking with only one so as to avoid this temptation altogether.

Yes I agree, which is why I asked the question now, before this situation arose. Of course, choosing only one priest from which to receive spiritual guidance could lead me into the arrogant sin of judging who is the "best" and so your advice is much appreciated. I think you are right that I should get my spiritual guidance from the priest who I confess to (it's obvious really, not I think on it), and by doing so I am not judging one priest to be more able than the other.


However, in any decision you make, you should know that Bishop Basil, whom your priest in the UK will commemorate, is considered by the Moscow Patriarchate to be a retired bishop now suspended from serving the Liturgy.

Yes, you are right: although I don't really know the details. All I do know is that my parish in England used to be under the Moscow Patriarch but then moved to the Ecumenical Patriarch; and also that to a certain extent, the my bishop was "pushed to" - rather than led to - the Ecumenical Patriarch. Well, in my introductory email to my priest in China I did include a link to my parish's homepage, which states that it is under the care of Bishop Basil; but I didn't say anything explicity (didn't think at the time) and it's possible he (the priest) did not notice. I don't even know (although I can guess) who is commemorated in the Liturgy in Beijing, as it's in Church Slavonic!

[Robert Hegwood]

There is his eminence Metropolitan Nicitas of Hong Kong. He is American by birth and is under the EP. His diocesan publication, "The Censer" is in English. If nothing else you might be able to get on his mailing list.

[Jonathan Michael]

Thank you Robert,

I've been to St. Paul's Cathedral in Hong Kong, the seat of his eminence Metropolitan Nicitas, but unfortunately his dioces has no presence in mainland China. I am very grateful that there is at least one functioning Orthodox church in Beijing (even though technically it's on Russian soil); I believe it's only one of three in the whole of mainland China (the third largest country in the world).

My priest in China - for convenience I'll refer to him as Fr D - is not part of Metropolitan Nicitas' dioces, but does live in Hong Kong most of the time. He makes regular trips to Guangzhou, Shenzen (both in the south, close to Hong Kong) and Beijing (a few hours by plane from Hong Kong) to serve the Divine Liturgy and distribute Chinese Orthodox material. I've read interviews with him where he describes his cordial relations with the SE Asian Diosces (that of his eminence Metropolitan Nicitas).

[Adrian Martin]

Maybe this is a simplistic answer, but why don't you ask your two priests for their opinion?

[Herman Blaydoe]

Maybe this is a simplistic answer, but why don't you ask your two priests for their opinion?

That certainly works for this simple mind!

Where there is no counsel, the people fall; But in the multitude of counselors there is safety. (Proverbs 11:14)

[Michael Astley]

However, in any decision you make, you should know that Bishop Basil, whom your priest in the UK will commemorate, is considered by the Moscow Patriarchate to be a retired bishop now suspended from serving the Liturgy.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!

Please forgive this misinformation. It had been correct at one point but it seems that the dispute was resolved some months ago, with Constantinople finally requesting letters of release from Moscow, them being granted in March of last year. I was quite genuinely unaware of this at the time of my earlier post and so apologise for any additional anxiety this may have caused.

[Jonathan Michael]

Thank you for Michael, for coming back to this thread and clearing that up! I must admit, it had worried me when I read what you'd put.

As for the subject of this thread, it seems to have happened naturally that I ask Fr. D___ (the Russian priest who serves here in Beijing) for advice more than my priest in England. I keep in contact with my home parish through my godfather and the Deacon's wife, who both e-mail me to see how I am getting on and show their concern. This is how it's always been, so I don't really have much direct contact with Fr. E____ (the priest in England). I am assured by those I do keep in contact with that they pray for me here in China, and for that I am very grateful.