Feeling incomplete after prayer

[Marianthy]

Hello Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

I am feeling inadequate after completeing prayers. As if I haven't prayed enough? Sometimes I forget that i have even prayed...my friends tell me it is because of the chemotherapy I am on...it's frying my brain cells...lol!

But honestly, prayer is a very important aspect of my Orthodox life. How can I get around this "feeling", if you will?

In Christ
Marianthy

[Mary]

Dear Marianthy,

I have all kinds of feelings, all the time. After some time of intense analysis of my feelings ( with LOTS of help from faithful friends) - I've concluded that my feelings are most unreliable. I do not know what triggers them. One minute, I trust my friend completely, and the next, I think my friend sees me as the most despicable creature on earth. Nothing has changed on the outside, or from my friend, but I have. Lord have mercy!

So, I try, as much as I can, to ignore my feelings when I pray. I'm so deluded that I can't even know my own heart. God knows the true state of my heart. Sometimes, all I know is that I need help. I feel no remorse for my sins, I can't even remember them. I just have a vague idea that I'm not a saint yet, so I must've sinned, but I'm not sure what I did. So I ask God to help me repent.

A Prayer that I really love:


Lord Christ our God, Who has healed my passions through Thy Passion, has cured my wounds through Thy wounds, grant me who have sinned greatly against Thee tears of compunction. Transform my body with the fragrance of Thy life-giving Body, and sweeten my soul with Thy Holy Blood from the bitterness with which the foe has fed me. Lift up my downward looking mind to Thee, and take it out of the pit of perdition, for I have no repentance, I have no compunction, I have no consoling tears, which uplift children to their heritage. My mind has been darkened through earthly passions, I cannot look up to Thee in pain. I cannot warm myself with tears of love for Three. But, O Lord Jesus Christ, Treasury of good gifts, give me thorough repentance and a diligent heart to seek Three; grant me Thy Grace, and renew in me the lineaments of Thy image. I have forsaken Three - do not forsake me! Come out to seek me; lead me up to Thy pasturage and number me among the lambs of Thy chosen flock. Nourish me with them on the grass of Thy Holy Mysteries, by the prayers of Thy Most Pure Mother and all Thy Saints. Amen. I ask God to have mercy on me and accept my prayers even though they're not from as deep in my heart as I'd like them to be.

I was feeling miserable this morning after my prayers. I sat to read my Bible, and I didn't want to read. I was falling asleep. But I didn't want to fall asleep. Then I thought, how good it would feel to have Him look at me. It was what I was reading that triggered that thought, although, how the logic funtioned (or didn't), I cannot say. I was reading: Luke 21:37-38 -
And in the daytime He was teaching in the temple, but at night He went out and stayed on the mountain called Olivet. Then early in the morning all the people came to Him in the temple to hear Him.How I wished I could be there, with all those people, and just once, just once, have Him look right into my eyes. He'd see Everything! All the brokenness, the foolishness, the mess, the dirt, the grime, the filth, the pain, the sadness, and inspite of it all, He won't turn away in disgust, but He'd love me instead. And that Love of His will soothe and heal, as it touches each broken piece inside of me. That's what I really want. I want Him to look at me and heal me. Sometimes my feelings agree with that, sometimes they don't.

So, my feelings don't matter to me a whole lot anymore. They come and go. Sometimes they make sense, sometimes they don't. But, I try not to rely on them anymore, especially to judge how others see me, or how God sees me, or even how I see myself.

In Christ,
Mary.

PS - It just occurred to me, that one of the broken things inside of me could be my Feelings! I wonder, if, as I heal, my heart and mind and feelings, will all start to function together, in harmony, instead of each doing it's own thing... because, I've noticed, that whenever my feelings agree with my heart, I have more strength to do whatever needs to be done...

[Mourad Mankarios]

Hello Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

I am feeling inadequate after completeing prayers. As if I haven't prayed enough? Sometimes I forget that i have even prayed...my friends tell me it is because of the chemotherapy I am on...it's frying my brain cells...lol!

But honestly, prayer is a very important aspect of my Orthodox life. How can I get around this "feeling", if you will?

In Christ
Marianthy

Hi Marianthy,

I think first of all it's important to realise that what your experiencing and struggling with is a common issue in the lives of many if not all people. Even monastics whose vocation in a nutshell is prayer will often come across the feelings that you are experiencing, and hence the saying by one of the desert fathers that the most difficult thing of all is to pray. Therefore, don't be too hard on yourself as it really is difficult to pray and prayer doesn't come so naturally as we would like it to. Well this is at least the case in the initial stages of the spiritual life. Once a person has become trained and refined in the spiritual life moments of sweetness and delight can come more frequently and linger for longer periods of time. Therefore, looking forward to the time when God will visit you with this grace can be of great benefit.

In addition you may also need to find some source of inspiration for your prayer. The fathers would spend lengthy amounts of time in the reading of scripture or other spiritual works of the fathers and this would be a great source of inspiration during their time in prayer. This could lead to meditation on God's love, glory and majesty, to insights into wonderful mysteries revealed by God, to thoughts on one's lowliness; it could also lead to intercession and to supplications or petitions.

Also you may like to revise or analyse how you pray, when you pray, what you pray and the length of time that you spend in prayer. These are all things that you can reflect on, perhaps vary and find what you are best inclined to and benefit most from.

God bless you and give you strength through His compassionate kindness and love-filled grace.

[Nina]

In addition you may also need to find some source of inspiration for your prayer. The fathers would spend lengthy amounts of time in the reading of scripture or other spiritual works of the fathers and this would be a great source of inspiration during their time in prayer. This could lead to meditation on God's love, glory and majesty, to insights into wonderful mysteries revealed by God, to thoughts on one's lowliness; it could also lead to intercession and to supplications or petitions.
God bless you and give you strength through His compassionate kindness and love-filled grace.

Exactly. Fathers say that we need to "warm up" before we pray. This is achieved through readings of spiritual material, which brings us enough compunction of the heart to move us to heartfelt prayer.

[Father David Moser]

Exactly. Fathers say that we need to "warm up" before we pray. This is achieved through readings of spiritual material, which brings us enough compunction of the heart to move us to heartfelt prayer.

A good simple instruction on this preparation to pray and how to pray by St Theophan the Recluse can be found here (http://www.monachos.net/library/Theophan_the_Recluse%2C_Four_Homilies_on_Prayer)

Fr David Moser

[Andreas Moran]

A good simple instruction on this preparation to pray and how to pray by St Theophan the Recluse can be found here

Fr David Moser

Fr David, your blessing! I haven't come across these homilies before. Please can you say where they are from and whether this is the first time they have been translated?

[Father David Moser]

Fr David, your blessing! I haven't come across these homilies before. Please can you say where they are from and whether this is the first time they have been translated?

There is an older English translation but it was done by the Praxis Institute and they charge an arm and a leg for the book - also they took some liberty with the original text when they translated. This translation was done by Fr Michael van Opstall (as it is noted) when he was preparing for ordination at my request (I was his mentor during his pastoral school training). I think I can dig up the Russian original on the web, but I'll have to look for it.

Fr David Moser

[Effie Ganatsios]

There is an older English translation but it was done by the Praxis Institute and they charge an arm and a leg for the book - also they took some liberty with the original text when they translated. This translation was done by Fr Michael van Opstall (as it is noted) when he was preparing for ordination at my request (I was his mentor during his pastoral school training). I think I can dig up the Russian original on the web, but I'll have to look for it.

Fr David Moser


Father, I have "Let us learn to Pray " - Holy Theofan the Recluse - and have been using it for years. I need to study the Monachas text more thoroughly of course, but at first glance it seems to be a different text entirely.

I downloaded my text from

http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/learn/

Let us Learn to pray
Advices given by Holy Theofan the Recluse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Material gathered and organized by Bishop Alexander (Mileant)
Translated from Russian by Irina Nabatova-Barrett
How one can enter the praying state of mind. "

Do you know if this is an accurate version?


Effie

[Effie Ganatsios]

Hello Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

I am feeling inadequate after completeing prayers. As if I haven't prayed enough? Sometimes I forget that i have even prayed...my friends tell me it is because of the chemotherapy I am on...it's frying my brain cells...lol!

But honestly, prayer is a very important aspect of my Orthodox life. How can I get around this "feeling", if you will?

In Christ
Marianthy

Marianthy, God be with you and grant you courage.

As Mary so rightly says, feelings are quite unimportant. Prayers can be many things, even a plea from the heart without words. Don't feel pressured at all. If you are feeling "dry" at the moment, just ignore it and know that God is still with you. I'm sorry that my memory is not all it should be either, but I remember that I read that these dry spells are very common, even for saints, and what we need to do is to just continue praying in whatever manner we deem proper. I think Elder Paisios said this but I am not sure.
Perhaps just the Jesus Prayer with deep breathing, or the Lord's Prayer, or a psalm. Whatever you want. Even just allowing God to take care of everything and knowing that you are His, is also a form of prayer. Take care of yourself and leave everything in God's hands.

With love
Effie

[Paul Cowan]

Not feeling like you want to go to work does not mean you should not.
Not feeling like you want to clean the house does not mean you should not.
Not feeling like you want to want to pray does not mean you should not.

Take heart. I don't "feel" like doing these things either, but with knowing God will take care of me if I do MY part, it is somehow easier to do a little than to do a lot. You can always build up to more.

In "Unseen Warfare" the Holy father says if you have an hour prayer rule and just don't feel you are up to it, to convince yourself to just do 15 minutes. That time will pass quickly, then convince yourself to just do another 15 minutes and you will see it is nothing at all, then just convince yourself just another 15 minutes. By the time you have completed 45 minutes you have almost done your hour and might as well complete the last 15 minutes.

Paul

[Andreas Moran]

I'm sorry that my memory is not all it should be either, but I remember that I read that these dry spells are very common, even for saints, and what we need to do is to just continue praying in whatever manner we deem proper. I think Elder Paisios said this but I am not sure.

Archimandrite Zacharias told me years ago, treasure these moments of dryness because if we endure them and keep praying when nothing seems to be happening, God will reward our perseverence. (I know I've said this before somewhere - haven't gone ga-ga yet.)

[Marianthy]

I would like to thank all of you for your responses. There are days when I can hardly get through my prayers due to the tears that pour out from me, both for my many sins, for humanity, for the suffering I see around me.

At other times I feel "apatheia", as if I am just going through the motions. One thing that hinders my prayer life is my inability to get to church as often as I would like. I was so hoping I would feel well enough this morning to go, but chemo got the best of me.

I have put both links on my favorites and intend to study them. I have a "set" time that I like to pray in the morning...to get me in the "mood", if you will, I put on my favorite chants which bring me to tears for all the good that I have in my life...how fortunate I am first and foremost to have my faith by which to hold steadfast!! But I know the Evil one lurks in the corner...and I pray fervently that God gives me the strength to withstand all that wishes to tempt and devour me...but it is hard..especially in the face of hardship and trials.

In Christ,
Marianthy

[Owen Jones]

One of the hardest things to explain to people is the fact that spiritual dryness is also a gift, perhaps the greatest gift. We do not see that when we are in the middle of it. Which is why it is important to have friends who have faith and experience to draw from and to listen to. I think the Bible has something to say on this subject, with a whole cast a characters. But then, kust take a look at Christ. When he was assaulted spiritually, he didn't have a whole lot of friends around bucking him up. When he did, as in Gethsemene, their intent was to whack his enemies with a good swift sword stroke, not truly understanding the nature of the enemy. So he was alone.

So our faith is not much good if it only works when we are "supported" by friends in physical proximity. The essence of our faith is that we are never alone in our prayers. We have the Church praying our prayers, in and through us.

The truth of Christianity is that when we are weak, we are strong. When we are losing we are winning. When we have no power, we are powerful.

[Paul Cowan]

Dear Marianthy,

If I could recommend a tape series fo you and for everyone. This series was from a recent Antiochian Conference featuring Archamandrite Zacharias who is the spiritual son of Fr. Sophrony the spiritual son of St. Silouan. The Hidden Man of the Heart (http://eighthdaybooks.com/cgi-bin/ccp51/cp-app.cgi?usr=51H7322586&rnd=3219870&rrc=N&affl=&cip=76.238.186.161&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=1234567&cat=&catstr=). I cried the entire first CD. I will admit, I hated the last CD, bt only because it was so unstructured and it "seemed" as several of the Fathers present had agendas.

Otherwise very well worth the money. Especially if two or more buy it together.
This from the Eighth Day Books website...

Published: 2007
7 CD set

The 2007 Clergy Brotherhood Retreat for the Diocese of Wichita and Mid-America is now available in a set of seven audio compact disks, each containing one of Archimandrite Zacharias’ prepared lectures together with frequent asides and his insightful Q & A sessions. Archimandrite Zacharias is the spiritual grandson of St. Silouan of Mt. Athos, and carries in his heart and voice the same depth of wise love that characterized the life of St. Silouan. He demonstrates Orthodoxy as living, humble, "relevant" and healing. These talks were intended for clergy, but will be applicable for anyone learning to receive spiritual direction within the Church. The contents include: Disk 1: "The Mystery of Man’s Heart" Disk 2: "The Awakening of the Heart by the Mindfulness of Death and the Moment of Death" Disk 3: "The Awakening of the Heart by the Fear of God and by Bearing Shame in the Sacrament of Confession" Disk 4: "The Building Up of the Heart by Vigilance and Prayer" Disk 5: "The Building Up of the Heart by the Grace of Repentance" Disk 6: "Go In and You Will Find Rest" Disk 7: "The Vulnerability of the Gift of Speaking in Tongues."


Paul

[Nina]

I would like to thank all of you for your responses. There are days when I can hardly get through my prayers due to the tears that pour out from me, both for my many sins, for humanity, for the suffering I see around me.

At other times I feel "apatheia", as if I am just going through the motions. One thing that hinders my prayer life is my inability to get to church as often as I would like. I was so hoping I would feel well enough this morning to go, but chemo got the best of me.

I have put both links on my favorites and intend to study them. I have a "set" time that I like to pray in the morning...to get me in the "mood", if you will, I put on my favorite chants which bring me to tears for all the good that I have in my life...how fortunate I am first and foremost to have my faith by which to hold steadfast!! But I know the Evil one lurks in the corner...and I pray fervently that God gives me the strength to withstand all that wishes to tempt and devour me...but it is hard..especially in the face of hardship and trials.

In Christ,
Marianthy

Dear Marianthy,

You are so good! You are doing great things! Hang in there and trust that God will not fail us! I have seen chemo effects on my mother and I can not even begin to recall them because they are too much painful! Although my mother tried to stay very strong since she was a strong person, still chemo is very hard. I remember she would go through it with the book of prayer on her chest reading the prayers :.( she was feeling so horrible while receiving chemo but the prayers helped a lot. Also handwork helped her. Even when she was sick, she would do needlework and embroidery. I think she was also praying while doing that. When she cried, I cried, therefore she tried to be stronger so I would not get sad. What can I tell you dear Marianthy? You are so good praying and doing whatever you can and that whatever is much more than we all are doing. Actually you need to teach us! It is normal to feel like you describe... and I know what you mean when you say how hard it is when there are trials and hardships. I failed myself and God so many times when my mom was sick and other times. But if you feel like crying, cry as much as you can and open your heart to God, talk to Him and know that He bows His head and listens to all of us, but especially to the martyrs of chemo etc.

When my mom departed, I could not place my head on her chest and cry and describe to her the pain of missing her... Then I had to leave from my father and I was far away from him also and I could not put my head on his chest either and cry and talk to him about mother... There is nothing more soothing than that parental hug. There is nothing more soothing than our Father's consolation. After my mom departed, I was so tired and beaten up from everything, that when my friends were asking me how I was holding up, I would tell them: "I wish I could place my head on God's chest and cry and cry and cry!" I never had felt like that before. It was not just a simple wish. It came from the depths of my soul- that's how much burdened I felt. I never stopped from saying that. And I never stopped myself from crying and telling Him my pain... although I could not place my head on His chest.

And my suffering is nothing compared to yours and my mom's and everyone else's. But when we suffer we just need to open our hearts to Him, although we might feel numb, or shocked, or devastated - I know how hard it is, even in the most little sadness we feel so unable- but when we open our hearts there will be tears, there will be gratitude, there will be fear and many other things. And He like the wonderful Father He is will take away our heavy burdens... I am not telling these with self-righteousness. I did many bad things when my mom was sick, but at the end I understood that His love never stopped, but my eyes were too human (closed) to see it.
P.S Some months ago I saw Christ in my dream and I went and hugged Him, kissed Him and placed my head on His chest exactly like my soul was always sighing in longing (dream come true in a dream!). However instead of crying I was so very delighted that I can not even describe it. I know I am not worthy to see Christ in any way, and call me deluded but that dream gave me what I asked for. And what do I do? How do I recompense Him? I make Him sad daily with my sins. But the bottom line is: Open your heart to Him, do not hold back, and you will see! When you feel the happiest, when you feel the saddest, go be alone with Him and talk to Him.

[Effie Ganatsios]

Marianthy, after Nina's post what can I say. Nothing. She spoke from her heart and knows what she is saying.


I can only tell you of my neighbour across the road who has had 3 chemotherapy treatments over the last 36 years. The last one was about 6-7 years ago and I lived through it with her. What I wanted to say was, never lose hope and faith in God. My friend is absolutely well now and is a much more active person than I am. In fact last year I spotted her on her roof (her house is on a lower level than ours) doing something to a chimney. She lives her life to the fullest and is wonderfully healthy and happy. She is what is called a person with golden hands here (chrysohera) and never stops. Sewing, crocheting, she now also does macrame............ She gardens for hours. She travels regularly to many countries in Europe. She also dances with a traditional dance group and is part of a choir. Why am I saying all this? Because I remember being able to hear her vomiting from my front verandah (so you know what she was going through) and how absolutely depressed she was. She is now another woman.


God bless you.

Effie