Clergy personality

[Justin Farr]

What personalities have you came across in Orthodox clergy?

So far the two priests I know are very short and seemingly rude when I talk to them. I just hung up from the priest of the parish I attend, and he was so short with me and seemingly careless that I welled up with tears when I hung up. I've also phoned a monk once, who was very short with me. Though another I phoned was very nice and helpful. Two, actually.

So far in my journey my experience has been mixed. What about your experience with the clergy? How is their personality?

[Mary James]

So far, my journey with talking to Priests have been a mix too.

I've had Priests who have yelled at me for asking a simple and non-rude question.
I've had Priests who have hung the phone on me and those who walked away from me when i was talking to them, lols.
I've also met a Priest who would hug and kiss me on the forehead every time he'd see me and quickly give me his blessing.
I've met another Priest who gently hit me with his blessing cross on my head (as a joke though).
Another Priest I met just didn't stop talking to me... I thought i was going to spend the whole night talking about schooling while standing in the narthex of the Church.
I've encountered Priests who've invited me to their homes and taught me new things.

I have yet to meet more.

[Nina]

This is the-almost-identical-twin of the message below. Pardon.

[Nina]

Well I think my spiritual father priest-monk is a saint and angel at the same time, I do not know which one to choose. The other priest- monk (and spiritual father of my mother and father and brother) that actually was first in my mind when I told you about the name Justin, since he has that name also :), is so wonderful too and I also consider him a saint as well. This does not mean they did not correct me, reprimand me, or give me penance.

I have been blessed to meet other wonderful clergy and monastics also. Just remember that they are people like all of us and have different personalities. If you read saints' lives they also are different from one another. One went to the world, St. Chrysostom for instance and talked to people for their salvation, another one concentrated on his spiritual struggle and repentance and shut himself in a cave and did not really talk. One is more strict although full of love (St. Niphon of Cyprus for example) if you think carefully about, and one is more lenient and still full of love (Elder Porphyrios).

Also you have the clergy here on monachos also :) who are wonderful in their own unique way. :)

I think the beauty of our religion is that we do not have to be clones of some prototype. Since there is so much variety on our nature and creation of God we can understand that diversity is a blessing.

[Justin Farr]

Maybe I have just had a mediocre or lackluster experience then... :p

Even my spiritual father has started becoming a bit short with me.

[Mary]

Whenever I complained to my friend about being hurt by someone's words, my faithful friend, who cuts me no slack, would say that the pain is a sure sign that pride is being injured, because humility doesn't get hurt that way.

So now, I'm so humble that I don't get hurt anymore, because I don't think more highly of myself that I should.

Oh, all right. So I still get hurt, and I still whine and complain and feel sorry for myself when I'm hurting. But because of the wise words of my friend, once I'm done licking my wounds, I try to dig out the offending thorn and take it to confession. After all, it's not like anyone is out to get me and deliberately hurt me and insult me. If I get hurt, it's my fault, for all the expectations and wild imaginations that I had. At least, that's usually the case for me.

To answer your question, I haven't met a priest or a monk who hasn't been good to me.

In Christ,
mary.

[Paul Cowan]

Justin,

I don't know your situation, but I have seen when people go to a priest for advise (or anyone really) and don't take his advise and then comes back complaining or hurt from not taking it, they tend to get a little sideways.
If someone were to constantly nag or ask why, why, why, why, why...I can also see their patience being tried. Some times just saying ok and moving on or observing others and not saying anything at all is helpful. Besides, perhaps the plumbing burst in their house that morning and they can't find a plumber and ruined their carpet.
You can always ask them if you have offended them and see if amends need to be made or not.

Paul

[Nina]

Justin,

I don't know your situation, but I have seen when people go to a priest for advise (or anyone really) and don't take his advise and then comes back complaining or hurt from not taking it, they tend to get a little sideways.
If someone were to constantly nag or ask why, why, why, why, why...I can also see their patience being tried. Some times just saying ok and moving on or observing others and not saying anything at all is helpful. Besides, perhaps the plumbing burst in their house that morning and they can't find a plumber and ruined their carpet.
You can always ask them if you have offended them and see if amends need to be made or not.

Paul

Great advise from Paul, dear Justin. Take it, please!

[Justin Farr]

I've only talked to him in church twice. He gave an an icon of The Great Bishop Christ (or something of the sort). And I've always came to him, not the other way. General parish members have been so kind and open to me, though.

I might go to church tomorrow and ask him if I have done anything...

[Paul Cowan]

If you are on the new calendar, tomorrow is a Major feast day in the church. It might not be such a good time. Consider his roles and preparation for services before pulling him aside before or just after a service. I know you are in school, but perhaps you could make an appointment with him?

[Justin Farr]

I was going to wait and get antidoron last and catch him then and ask?

Apparently calling = bad idea... :P

[Paul Cowan]

Keep in mind they have another 10 minutes or so of closing prayers before they are "dismissed" from the altar after they give the final blessing and everyone kisses the Cross. Perhaps before he gets too caught up and well before the end of coffee hour after service?

[Effie Ganatsios]

What personalities have you came across in Orthodox clergy?

So far the two priests I know are very short and seemingly rude when I talk to them. I just hung up from the priest of the parish I attend, and he was so short with me and seemingly careless that I welled up with tears when I hung up. I've also phoned a monk once, who was very short with me. Though another I phoned was very nice and helpful. Two, actually.

So far in my journey my experience has been mixed. What about your experience with the clergy? How is their personality?

Mine has been mixed also. But when you find a good priest, there is nothing better in the world.

When I first came here I was feeling quite depressed one day and it happened that on that day the local priest came to bless the house (this was about 25 years ago and at that time priests used to come once a month and bless your house - they no longer do this). The only experience I had had with priests was the protestant pastor at our school and a baptist pastor who lived in our street. Both were wonderful men and spent time with you. I told the priest that I needed to talk with him about my depression and how sad I was that I was living so far from my family. He listened for a couple of minutes then said, there's no need to feel depressed. You have your husband's family here - or words to that effect. He then extended his hand and said "your help" which meant that he wanted to be paid for his visit. I was so upset by his behaviour that it took me a long time to ever trust a priest again.

I have met wonderful priests though. One is my spiritual father who is someone I admire very much. He is a relative by marriage and I know exactly what kind of person he is at church and at home.

Priests, like us, all have different personalities. We would expect that some of them take their job more seriously, and I use the word "job" because to some of them being priests is nothing more than this. The few that are truly holy men
make up for all the others. It is not our place to judge, God will do that, but, we are humans and we hurt.

My advice or not exactly advice because I don't believe in giving people advice, but merely what I would do in your place. Ignore this particular priest, ask God to forgive him and bless him and then go on to find a priest that is committed to God.

Effie

[Nina]

I've met another Priest who gently hit me with his blessing cross on my head (as a joke though).


I have met some monastics, who gently hit my opened palm with a rapid touch of the fingers of their right hand, while I was bowing to receive their blessing. Many do this out of humility, or because they are not priests. :)

and there is this hierarch who so sweetly like a father says:

"Ela, ela ... mou, kori mou!" (Come, come my [insert name], my daughter!) and while I am making a prostration in front of him, he already has taken my head in the middle of his hands and kissed the crown of my head.

[Justin Farr]

I got Fr. John going to his office. I was called his name twice, and he finally stopped going down the stairs, but didn't turn around. I said, "Forgive me if I have offended you." He said, "You haven't offended me. See you tomorrow." He continued walking down, so I said, "Um... if I may... I am just wondering what I did? I am so sorry." He stopped again and didn't turn around and said, "I had some things going on then. See you tomorrow," and he walked away. He didn't sound kind, or even neutral... he did sound a bit harsh, but not overtly so.

[Effie Ganatsios]

Excuse me Justin, but he also sounded very rude.

God forgive me for this harsh thought, but how hard would it have been for him to turn around and address you?

People here don't usually tolerate such behaviour. One year, when our group of women had spent half a day cleaning the small church on the top of our hill, plus the original very old church next to it, and while our husbands had spent all that time clearing and cleaning the grounds around these churches - a lot of hard work because of the gardens and the pine trees, we all sat down to have a cup of coffee and rest. The Archmandrite from the church responsible for these little churches (which, by the way were paid for by those living in the area), came with 2 or 3 "followers", went into the little office built next to the church and had his coffee in there. When he first appeared he greeted us - if you can call an indistinct "hello" addressed to one of the pine trees a greeting - and just walked by. When he left he didn't say anything to anyone and again walked by the people sitting on the benches in the courtyard. Everyone started mumbling, and my husband stopped one of the men who were with him, and told him that such behaviour is unacceptable. Politeness is the least one would expect towards those who had been working voluntarily and so hard.

Some priests are unbelievably arrogant. There have been other instances in which I have seen people here correct arrogant behaviour. The church does not belong to the priests, the church is the people, it is the faithful, it is the little old ladies who attend church regularly and give a tiny amount of money to it. This tiny amount is in reality a huge amount if we take into consideration just how much money they receive each month from their pensions.

We thank God for those priests who are indeed men of God.
We pray for those others who seem to think that the Church is their own profitable business.

Effie

[Father David Moser]

Justin (and others in this discussion),

While it may be interesting to discuss the various personalities of clergy (and some of them are quite unique), I am thinking that a public internet forum may not be the place to work through one's specific issues with a particular priest. That is much to close to gossip for my taste. If you have an issue with a particular priest, the first thing to do is not to "catch him in the hall" or some such thing (which is usually when he has to be somewhere else, or when he is tired and/or preoccupied with something), but rather to make an appointment to meet him in his office or invite him to your home (theophany was just past - ask him to come and bless your home). The second thing to do is to look at yourself - maybe the issue isn't with the priest, but rather with how you are interacting with the priest. The third consideration is that a priest will vary his interactions with different people in accordance with what he perceives to be in their best interest (in regards to spiritual situation). I know that I am short with some people and exceedingly warm with others, I may speak harshly to you today and be indulgent tomorrow - not because I am cruel or a fool, but rather because this is what is needed by you for your salvation.

It might be fun here to discuss "unique priests I have known" (and I've got to say that among the most unique would be our dear Fr Averky of days past) but in the end this thread is wandering into the realm of gossip and so probably should be approached with great care.

Fr David Moser

[Mary]

Dear friends,

I am not comfortable with the posts in this thread. In what manner are we building each other up by speaking about the personalities of our Clergy? In speaking of "Clergy" all clumped into one, everything we say about one, is also being said about all. Why can't we speak of the blessings we've received from our clergy instead? You've got to admit, regardless of how rude anyone behaves towards us, they are not shredding us to pieces like the martyrs were. And yet, in all the stories I've read so far, I haven't read of anyone going up to a tormentor and saying: "Excuse me, but what you're doing is so wrong! That's a human being that you're torturing to death. How can you do such a thing?" If the martyrs could love and pray for those who were killing them, aren't we at least supposed to try being kind to those who are unkind to us?

I'm not saying all this because I haven't been offended by anyone's apparent rudeness. To the contrary, I've been building up resentments towards my own priest for almost a year, to the point that I thought he was deliberately avoiding me. My friend, recognized my resentful attitude and told me I better confess. So I did. My priest was totally surprised to hear of all the things going on inside the darkness of my heart, and graciously forgave me. You can't imagine what I feel like since then! I feel like someone has turned on a light in a dark, dark room! Please, don't let's fuel each other's passions. What can we gain from it? We're commanded to forgive. And although I still think it's necessary to be able to vent every once in a while, is it ok to vent in public? Isnt' it better to vent in private, to one trusted friend who is far more mature than ourselves and will snuff out our insane fire instead of feeding it?

Think about our clergy for a moment. A parish of fifty has to learn to live with just one priest who doesn't gush friendliness. But the poor man, who loves solitude is burdened with 50 grumpy parishoners! And if there's more than 50 in the parish, the troubles multiply. Is it ok for him to post on monachos and complain about his selfish, needy, burdensome parishoners? If it's not ok for him, it's not ok for us. I remember all my negative thoughts and feelings when I saw a post by a priest, expressing his doubts and questions. I thought: "How can he post such a thing on a public forum? He's going to confuse people... Not that he shouldn't have doubts and questions, but shouldn't he deal with them in private, with his spiritual father or some other priests or trusted friend?" He wasn't chosen to be a priest because he's already a saint. But he will be after having survived the fire that we put him through!

I suppose, looking at it that way, go ahead and burn. Then the rewards our priests receive in heaven, will indeed be great, because of us. =)

Please forgive me.
Mary.

[Nina]

Dear friends,

Why can't we speak of the blessings we've received from our clergy instead?


Mary.

I did. Because I am a good girl. :P

But really, however we perceive everything, comes from within. That is why Fathers said we must purify our hearts.

[Victor Mihailoff]

What personalities have you came across in Orthodox clergy?

So far the two priests I know are very short and seemingly rude when I talk to them. I just hung up from the priest of the parish I attend, and he was so short with me and seemingly careless that I welled up with tears when I hung up. I've also phoned a monk once, who was very short with me. Though another I phoned was very nice and helpful. Two, actually.

So far in my journey my experience has been mixed. What about your experience with the clergy? How is their personality?

Dear Justin:

As others have already posted, priests are human beings and God bestows them with an abundance of grace so that they can freely pass it on to us. The more they give out, the more they are given. human beings vary in personality and so do priests. The Holy fathers advised monastics to early on in their quest find a spiritual father that suited their own disposition. That was easier to do then than now because there were more to choose from.

God also passes important messages to us through priests and sometimes through other Orthodox clergy. Here is something that happened to me. I was a seminary student on the first day after Christmas when my sick gall bladder made me very ill. I couldn't eat for a week and became physically extremely weak. The whites of my eyes became yellow as did the untanned parts of my skin. People made various comments but a hierodeacon (deacon monk) advised me to go to hospital. I shrugged it off and said no worries. Then, when I went to a pizza restaurant with a friend from seminary I ate some pizza and became very cold. I asked my friend to turn on the heater in his car, but it was a warm day and my friend had the heater vents pointing at me while he kept his window open because he was too hot. I was shivering and he was perspiring.

A hieromonk (priest monk) advised me to go to hospital. I shrugged that off too and was not concerned. I know it sounds crazy to some people but that's the way I am about my health and life, not concerned enough. finally another hieromonk told me that I looked terrible and should go to hospital. I said, "It's nothing, i'm just turning yellow." As I walked away, he said, "I'll remember those words at your funeral Victor." I was quite a distance away from him when I heard those words but I felt someone give me a firm tap on the head and the thoughts cmew flooding in, "Listen to them you idiot! The only people who told you to go to hospital were three monastic clergymen. It's from God you fool! Do what they say!" That finally got through my thick skull and I told the hierodeacon who first advised me to go to hospital and offered to take me that I would do as he said. He was relieved and was driving an old hieromonk for a periodic appointment to the hospital. When I arrived, the doctors and nurses threww me onto an examination table and removed my shirt. They examined me in the emergency ward.

Later a doctor told me that I needed surgery. I told them that I did not want my parents in Australia to pay for the hospital bill and maybe I could just go back to the monastery. The doctor said, "I'm sure you are thinking about your parents when you say that, but think about this, would they suffer more for tha loss of money or for the early death of their son? Besides, we have a charity that pays for people like you who have no income and there are other avenues of assistance. In my opinion, if you don't have surgery, your dead in twelve months."

After the operation which was much more serious and extensive than routine gall bladder removal and a gall stone found next to my gall bladder where a cross shaped scar was seen, was so big that one doctor said he had never seen one that big in a living person, only in corpses. Another Dr. said, "remeber when I said you had 12 months to live? I was wrong, when we opened you up we saw that you were going to die in onw week if you didn't have surgery!"

Now maybe Justin, it is just the personalities of these priests and they act the same with most people. But maybe God is telling you something instead. If there is a third clergyman who acts short with you, try to remember what you said or did just before that. Try to remember the same for the others. Pray to whatever saints you pray to and pray to some new ones too. Pray to God and his most Holy Mother. Ask for an answer about yourself. Maybe, maybe, maybe; I don't know the right answer but those above that you can pray to will know. Also read the Bible, lives of saints and instructive books written by saints. Sometimes God addresses answers to the same problem in the same hour or day from three or more spiritual books.

May Lord Jesus Christ send you answer! Victor

[Effie Ganatsios]

Thank you Victor for that instructive story. I always like practical personal stories that illustrate points we want to make. Another interesting thread we might start could be the various ways God communicates with us.

Effie

[Victor Mihailoff]

Thank you Victor for that instructive story. I always like practical personal stories that illustrate points we want to make. Another interesting thread we might start could be the various ways God communicates with us.

Effie

Your welcome Effie. May God's light shine upon you.

You may be the better one to start that thread. i am only a member less thatn one week and sill learning how to use this forum's tools. According to your profile, you've been a member longer than indicated because you registered a second time later.

By the way. I do not have to remember my password at all. All you need to do is save a shortcut to desktop for the monachos screen you are viewing when already logged in. Next time you want to enter, just click onto your shortcut and you enter already logged in to the same screen you chose to save. It saves time too.

God bless you & your loved one's. Victor

[Justin Farr]

I went up today to receive antidoron and he apologized and asked for my forgiveness and said it was a bad night, and then he surprised me even moreso with a hug!

[Paul Cowan]

I went up today to receive antidoron and he apologized and asked for my forgiveness and said it was a bad night, and then he surprised me even moreso with a hug!

I can't find the verse right now, but be slow to anger, slow to judge and quick to forgive. If people can see past the personality to the person, much can be forgiven quickly and easily. Also we should not hold on to resentments. They only eat us up on the inside.

Paul

[Owen Jones]

My last priest had a joyful, serene countenance. This has a tendency to rub off on people, far more important than what he actually has to say.

[Theodoros]

We are blessed with a great Spiritual Father that I've known for the last 30 yrs. Every time my wife and I great him, we get hugs and kisses. He's a very affectionate man with those whom he knows well.

[Alice]

Maybe I have just had a mediocre or lackluster experience then... :p

Even my spiritual father has started becoming a bit short with me.

Dear Justin,

I ask this in the most respectful way, but could you perhaps be a bit too talkative, or too demanding of the priest hearing your concerns, your needs, your questions? Sometimes our priests are very busy and their patience wears thin easily, as they have much on their mind, much to do, and many to talk to...as well as too little time to themselves and their families.

If you had similar conversations with a lay person, would their reaction be the same?

Again, I ask this in a most respectful way...My own mother is very chatty, not a good listener, yet very well read and knowledgeable--and I have observed people's reactions to her through the years. I do not blame them. They do not intend to be rude, but perhaps patience is not their best virtue.

A very wise person once said that we must put ourselves into the other's shoes in order to understand them.

I always find that a good thing to do when calling someone is to ask them if you have called at a bad time...

In Christ our Lord,
Alice

P.S. Many saints are known to have had tempers...not all fit the bill of patient! Even saints are people and as people we all have different personalities. One of the most seriously dedicated and profoundly spiritual Orthodox priests I know does not have the best social personality. Likability does not always equal piety.

[Deanna Leonti]

Fr. David Moser,

I know that I am short with some people and exceedingly warm with others, I may speak harshly to you today and be indulgent tomorrow - not because I am cruel or a fool, but rather because this is what is needed by you for your salvation.

I do agree, but does it have to be like this always?
and does it help the priest salvation also?

I can remember a time when it seemed like no-one was kind to me, everyone would either have a condescending tone, or a sacastic remark or just being outright rude,or wouldn't give me the time of day. So, I quickly examined myself, is it me projecting something? or am I acting in the same manner? until one day I met this little ol' Trappist Monk, and his kindness, patience and understanding toward me helped turn my world around.
God Grant Dear Fr. Leo Slatterie many years!

Now when I around clergy, and if their personalities are quirky I give them the benefit of doubt, and move on, but if it is a continuing pattern then I try to go and find somewhere else that our personalities won't clash.
easier on them, easier on me.

Deanna

[Alice]

Fr. David Moser,

I do agree, but does it have to be like this always?
and does it help the priest salvation also?

I can remember a time when it seemed like no-one was kind to me, everyone would either have a condescending tone, or a sacastic remark or just being outright rude,or wouldn't give me the time of day. So, I quickly examined myself, is it me projecting something? or am I acting in the same manner? until one day I met this little ol' Trappist Monk, and his kindness, patience and understanding toward me helped turn my world around.
God Grant Dear Fr. Leo Slatterie many years!

Now when I around clergy, and if their personalities are quirky I give them the benefit of doubt, and move on, but if it is a continuing pattern then I try to go and find somewhere else that our personalities won't clash.
easier on them, easier on me.

Deanna

Dear Deanna,

Christ is Risen!

For what it is worth, I agree that kindness is a gift of love that can have unknown and wonderful consequences on another. It may be the one act that saves a person's life--emotionally, spiritually, and even literally.

I always try to be kind to others, even if they are boring me or tiring me or whatever. A warm smile can also sometimes go a long way when one's patience cannot.

However, in my above post, I have tried to give the benefit of the doubt to our clergy, because we are all humans endowed with different personalities, and being stressed and overworked, tired and overwhelmed can temporarily change the personality of even the kindest among us..

Also, warmth is not necessarily a gift that all have, (though it is a great blessing when one meets such a monk or holy man), but *charity* is something that I believe we all, clergy and laity alike, must strive for in order to love each other as our Lord instructed us to do..

Alice

[Paul Cowan]

What personalities have you came across in Orthodox clergy?
So far in my journey my experience has been mixed. What about your experience with the clergy? How is their personality?

I would like to introduce to you my friends. And yes, they are my clergy (http://saintjameskids.blogspot.com/2008/11/many-years-master.html). Well, ok, friends might be reaching a bit, but I feel very loved and protected by these men. They are the A Team of the altar. His Grace Bishop Basil wrote our rubrics or rather rewrote them so every priest under his protection is on the same page, so to speak, in the Diocese. He KNOWS when something is not right from a movement to a psalter. Fr. Matthew is the Dean of the Deanery and is a perfectionist when it comes to the rubrics. There is no one better to learn from on "how & why" the service happens. He is also a kind, firm, funny, forgiving father/confessor. Father James knows every tone and has memorized almost the entire Divine Services. He is a mathematician. You can almost always find him in the canters box when too many senior clergy are officiating. You can read about his story in the blog above. Deacon Meletios is my true friend. He, Fr. James and I were all baptised on the same day. Deacon is the ProtoDeacon in the Deanery and tries to guide the other few we have on the rubrics. I am godfather to his son, Noah. (pray for me, I am not very good at it)
These men represent in my opinion, the best of the best in pastorship, leadership and education of the continually growing converts into our parish. Leadership is top down. I feel I am a better member of the flock because I have such fantastic clergy guiding us on the right track and by example no less.

Not photographed are our 3 readers. One just tonsured last week. From the article above, I have seen the love His Grace showers on his clergy. If I ever have to relocate, I hope I can stay within this Diocese (http://antiochian.org/DOWAMA).

Paul

[Nina]

P.S. Many saints are known to have had tempers...not all fit the bill of patient!

Yay! There is hope for me to become a saint also. :)

[Julia Hayes]

I always consider it very comforting that despite my Spiritual Father's obvious holiness, I'm very aware of his character "faults". Because if he has attained such holiness despite these "faults" then there is hope for me too!