Theotokos as patron saint

[Constantine]

Hello, everyone.

I hope I have placed this in the right area. If not, do feel free to move it.

Our oldest daughter's patronal feast is 1 October, The Protection of Our Most Holy Lady the Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary. As such, we chose the Theotokos herself as her patron. My wife and I are converts, however, and I simply want to be sure that it is appropriate to have the Theotokos as one's patron. Our priest has never suggested otherwise but since it was nagging at me I thought I would ask everyone. Thanks!

Yours in Christ,
Constantine

[Nina]

Hello, everyone.

I hope I have placed this in the right area. If not, do feel free to move it.

Our oldest daughter's patronal feast is 1 October, The Protection of Our Most Holy Lady the Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary. As such, we chose the Theotokos herself as her patron. My wife and I are converts, however, and I simply want to be sure that it is appropriate to have the Theotokos as one's patron. Our priest has never suggested otherwise but since it was nagging at me I thought I would ask everyone. Thanks!

Yours in Christ,
Constantine

:D Of course you can!... from what I know - not that I know much. If you do not mind to share Her though with all the world and not only the people that have Her as Patron and Mother. :)

[Olga]

What is your daughter's name, Constantine?

[Father David Moser]

I simply want to be sure that it is appropriate to have the Theotokos as one's patron. Our priest has never suggested otherwise but since it was nagging at me I thought I would ask everyone. Thanks!


Among Greeks this is an accepted practice, however among Russians it is something that is not generally done.

Fr David Moser

[Effie Ganatsios]

All mothers have the Theotokos as their patron saint.

Here in Greece we have girls named after the Theotokos i.e. Parthena, Maria, Despoina, perhaps other names that I can't think of at the moment. We do not have any that are named Theotokos of course.

Effie

[Mary James]

From the Russians I've learned not to keep the Theotokos as your patron Saint. They said this because she is already our speedy intercessor and is constantly praying for us. At the end of our prayers, we ask for the prayers of our patron Saint, and then we ask the Theotokos for her prayers. We cant say, "O Lord save us through the prays of our Patron Theotokos and through the prayers of the Theotokos"... it just sounds silly, lols.

I know that the Greeks and Antiochians give people the Theotokos as patrons, but the Slavic people don't tend to do that for various of reasons, which I can understand.

Then again, ask your Priest.

[Marianthy]

In Greece, and among many greek women, we not only view her as our patron saint, but as our Mother, the Queen and Mother of all...

I not only view her as my patron saint, but as she is above all saints, above all angels, I know I can turn to her for her intercessions and her guidance in my everyday life. I look to her for examples on living daily, and plead to her to intercede to her Son for me...

And I speak to her as I speak to my earthly mother...looking towards her icon and telling her about my day, all the good and bad. When I read the Akathist, I cry, knowing how full of sin I am, but yet, I know that she still turns to me and smiles, or scolds, and as Mother of all, loves me.

In Christ,
Marianthy

[Nina]

From the Russians I've learned not to keep the Theotokos as your patron Saint. They said this because she is already our speedy intercessor and is constantly praying for us. At the end of our prayers, we ask for the prayers of our patron Saint, and then we ask the Theotokos for her prayers. We cant say, "O Lord save us through the prays of our Patron Theotokos and through the prayers of the Theotokos"... it just sounds silly, lols.

I know that the Greeks and Antiochians give people the Theotokos as patrons, but the Slavic people don't tend to do that for various of reasons, which I can understand.


:D Dear Maria, you reminded me about someone named Christo (and Greek Orthodox). In Italy they always commented: "How can you Orthodox dare to take the name of Christ for yourselves? How can you esteem yourself so worthy to be called after Christ? We Catholics would not dare to do that." :D My grandfather tried to explain the difference, but they always were very perplexed. And to think that in Latin America there are Catholics, who indeed are called Jesus. :D I think these are just traditions.

This is my assumption but I have no idea about the real reasons though: Maybe Greeks and Antiochians did not have a plethora of saints right away in the first century of Christianity and they tried to use the few Christ-connected-names that existed in early Christianity, and call those people for intercession. Russian entered the Orthodox scene some centuries later when there were plenty of names to use and maybe they were humble enough to keep Panagia so very special. We like to keep her busy (we are the naughty, spoiled brats :P).

But what is important, as Marianthy says, Panagia is our Mother.

[Nina]

In Greece, and among many greek women, we not only view her as our patron saint, but as our Mother, the Queen and Mother of all...

I not only view her as my patron saint, but as she is above all saints, above all angels, I know I can turn to her for her intercessions and her guidance in my everyday life. I look to her for examples on living daily, and plead to her to intercede to her Son for me...

And I speak to her as I speak to my earthly mother...looking towards her icon and telling her about my day, all the good and bad. When I read the Akathist, I cry, knowing how full of sin I am, but yet, I know that she still turns to me and smiles, or scolds, and as Mother of all, loves me.

In Christ,
Marianthy

Dear Marianthy,

Saint Niphon Bishop of Cyprus, said that when he went to church in the early days when he returned to the Church, he looked at Panagia's icon. According to his deeds of that day, he said, Panagia's face seemed to be sad looking at him, or looking with a tender and sweet look. When she seemed sad, he was also sad and his conscience was bothering him very much. Please excuse the paraphrasing.

[Effie Ganatsios]

I have already mentioned that last Sunday we had a celebration to mark the Orthodox Mother's Day. The main speech was about the fact that the Theotokos was the patron saint of all mothers. And not just mothers that give birth to children, but also those "aunties" who devote their lives to helping children in need. Because these women are also mothers in the true sense of the word. We were told that the Theotokos is the mother of all, that we need to study her life (the few things that have been written about her). She is our role model, She is our friend, She is our Mother.


Marianthy's post is full of wonderful, tender feelings and she has explained everything so perfectly that I cannot add anything else.

[Mary James]

:D Dear Maria, you reminded me about someone named Christo (and Greek Orthodox). In Italy they always commented: "How can you Orthodox dare to take the name of Christ for yourselves? How can you esteem yourself so worthy to be called after Christ? We Catholics would not dare to do that." :D My grandfather tried to explain the difference, but they always were very perplexed. And to think that in Latin America there are Catholics, who indeed are called Jesus. :D I think these are just traditions.

This is my assumption but I have no idea about the real reasons though: Maybe Greeks and Antiochians did not have a plethora of saints right away in the first century of Christianity and they tried to use the few Christ-connected-names that existed in early Christianity, and call those people for intercession. Russian entered the Orthodox scene some centuries later when there were plenty of names to use and maybe they were humble enough to keep Panagia so very special. We like to keep her busy (we are the naughty, spoiled brats :P).

But what is important, as Marianthy says, Panagia is our Mother.

Those type of people may also seem to be very perplexed because they don't really care about the answer, they just want to rant about it, lols.
Btw, they're many Saints name Christos, doesn't really mean your naming your child after Christ, you can be naming them after one of those Saints.

Also, interesting point about how Russians entered the Orthodox scence centuries later when there were plenty of names to already choose from. Perhaps that may be the reason why they don't name their kids after the Theotokos, but only after other Saints.

And yes, Theotokos is our mother! :D

[Nina]

Btw, they're many Saints name Christos, doesn't really mean your naming your child after Christ, you can be naming them after one of those Saints.

:) Yes. But since my grandfather celebrated during Christmas... , and also they do not understand the linguistic difference between the name of Christ and Christo for people in Greek (but in Italian they sound the same anyway Cristo -as in the Count of Monte Cristo - :) so maybe that is why it is difficult for them to distinguish between the two).

But this reminds me: do people of the Russian tradition name children with the name Christo and who celebrate on Christmas? I just named my nephew with that name. :)


And yes, Theotokos is our mother! :D

:D Yes and thank God!

When we sigh we often say My Christ! (or) My Panagia! And it brings such a relief.

I read a story once that there were two children in danger and their mothers were near by. One of them exclaimed "Panagia mou (my)!" and the child remained safe. The other lady exclaimed "Oh my mother!" and her child was hurt.

[Mary James]

But this reminds me: do people of the Russian tradition name children with the name Christo and who celebrate on Christmas? I just named my nephew with that name. :)


Actually, Russian don't tend to give their children names in memory of a particular "Feast day" but they give a name and associate it with a patron 'Saint'.

[Olga]

:)
But this reminds me: do people of the Russian tradition name children with the name Christo and who celebrate on Christmas? I just named my nephew with that name.

No, the Slavs do not have any names which are based on the name of Christ, other than those Greek names which have the name of Christ in them, such as Christopher, Christodoulos, etc. The Slavs also do not have Christian names based on feasts of the Church as do the Greeks; i.e. no names the equivalent of Stavros/Stavroula (Exaltation of the Cross), Sotiris/Sotiria (Transfiguration), etc. Therefore, a Russian/Slavic Anastasia, would celebrate her nameday on the feast of a saint by that name, and not at Easter, as many Greeks would.

Of course, a Greek Christos may celebrate his nameday on the feast of a saint by that name. There are at least two Greek saints by that name, Christos of Preveza, and Christos the Gardener.

[Nina]

No, the Slavs do not have any names which are based on the name of Christ, other than those Greek names which have the name of Christ in them, such as Christopher, Christodoulos, etc. The Slavs also do not have Christian names based on feasts of the Church as do the Greeks; i.e. no names the equivalent of Stavros/Stavroula (Exaltation of the Cross), Sotiris/Sotiria (Transfiguration), etc. Therefore, a Russian/Slavic Anastasia, would celebrate her nameday on the feast of a saint by that name, and not at Easter, as many Greeks would.

Thanks for the answer.


Of course, a Greek Christos may celebrate his nameday on the feast of a saint by that name. There are at least two Greek saints by that name, Christos of Preveza, and Christos the Gardener.

Yes, but there is nothing wrong to celebrate your name-day on Christmas as well. Many people have the name Christo in my family and all celebrate on Christmas. And of course Maria is also a name of my family and all of them celebrate on August 15 (Dormition).

[Anthony]

If I'm not mistaken, the Greek name "Christos" is spelt differently (with eta instead of iota) and stressed differently from the Greek word "Christ" (compare "Chrestos" in the letter to Philemon) - although the intention of the name is clearly to refer to Christ, and it celebrates accordingly.

This reminds me a bit of Irish Gaelic tradition, where there are (I believe), a number of variations on Mary (Muire), and it is always one of the variants that is given to the girl being baptized.

I may be completely wrong.

[Nina]

If I'm not mistaken, the Greek name "Christos" is spelt differently (with eta instead of iota) and stressed differently from the Greek word "Christ" (compare "Chrestos" in the letter to Philemon) - although the intention of the name is clearly to refer to Christ, and it celebrates accordingly.


Exactly. That is why I said in one of my posts above:



My grandfather tried to explain the difference, but they always were very perplexed.

We not only spell it differently, but it is also pronounced differently, for making the distinction. Most of the Christos I know celebrate on Baby Christ's Birthday.

[Anthony]

Exactly. That is why I said in one of my posts above:



We not only spell it differently, but it is also pronounced differently, for making the distinction. Most of the Christos I know celebrate on Baby Christ's Birthday.

OK sorry, I missed that.

[Nina]

OK sorry, I missed that.

No. Actually you elaborated on that sentence and made it more clear, since in my mind I know it and I assumed all know it. I just wanted to tie your explanation to that obscure sentence of mine, and shed light on it. :) Thank you.

[Effie Ganatsios]

If I'm not mistaken, the Greek name "Christos" is spelt differently (with eta instead of iota) and stressed differently from the Greek word "Christ" (compare "Chrestos" in the letter to Philemon) - although the intention of the name is clearly to refer to Christ, and it celebrates accordingly.

I may be completely wrong.

Anthony, you are not completely wrong. Christos (Our Lord Christ) is pronounced Chri-stos with the emphasis being on the second part. The name Christos is pronounced Chris-tos but this time the emphasis is on the first part of the name. The letter "i" is pronounced the same for both variations of this word. There are lots of different spellings of the sound "i" as in the word skip, in the Greek language.

Χρiστός Jesus Christ

Χρή-στος Man's name Christos.

Effie

[Nina]

Anthony, you are not completely wrong. Christos (Our Lord Christ) is pronounced Chri-stos with the emphasis being on the second part. The name Christos is pronounced Chris-tos but this time the emphasis is on the first part of the name. The letter "i" is pronounced the same for both variations of this word. There are lots of different spellings of the sound "i" as in the word skip, in the Greek language.

Χρiστός Jesus Christ

Χρή-στος Man's name Christos.

Effie

This is very good and further explanation for the rest of people, dear Effie. Thank you.

P.S Anthony knows Greek and has spent some time studying it, I think. :)

[Effie Ganatsios]

This is very good and further explanation for the rest of people, dear Effie. Thank you.

P.S Anthony knows Greek and has spent some time studying it, I think. :)

sorry, I didn't know that Nina.

Sorry Anthony!!

Effie

[Anthony]

No apologies needed :). It is true that I have studied quite a bit of Greek, but there are plenty of people on this site that know more.

[Nina]

Dear Effie (no need to be sorry), if I hadn't known, I would have been deceived also by the 'If I'm not mistaken' of Anthony and others here. In general I have learned on monachos that the people who know the most and are actually experts in a certain field, have the most humble manner talking about things they know. I am so unlike them.

[Effie Ganatsios]

In general I have learned on monachos that the people who know the most and are actually experts in a certain field, have the most humble manner talking about things they know. I am so unlike them.


ditto

Effie

[Ioannis]

:D Dear Maria, you reminded me about someone named Christo (and Greek Orthodox). In Italy they always commented: "How can you Orthodox dare to take the name of Christ for yourselves? How can you esteem yourself so worthy to be called after Christ? We Catholics would not dare to do that." :D My grandfather tried to explain the difference, but they always were very perplexed. And to think that in Latin America there are Catholics, who indeed are called Jesus. :D I think these are just traditions.

This is my assumption but I have no idea about the real reasons though: Maybe Greeks and Antiochians did not have a plethora of saints right away in the first century of Christianity and they tried to use the few Christ-connected-names that existed in early Christianity, and call those people for intercession. Russian entered the Orthodox scene some centuries later when there were plenty of names to use and maybe they were humble enough to keep Panagia so very special. We like to keep her busy (we are the naughty, spoiled brats :P).

But what is important, as Marianthy says, Panagia is our Mother.

Jesus is a common name and also Joshua (Son of Navi) had the same first name as Jesus Christ. Simply in English they wanted to have a different name for Jesus Christ and different name of Joshua (Son of Navi).
Christos (your father's and my father's name) in Greek is written with letter "H" - "ETA" which is a different letter as with Christos (Christos) which is "I" - "IOTA".
The first one means the "usefull" and the second one means the "annointed".

I hope I helped. Definetelly the greeks do not use the Christ name.

[David Stark]

Hi I am new here.

I always wondered why we Orthodox put so much esteem on the Theotokos, when Christ said "among them that are born of women, there has not risen a greater then John the Baptist."

Also, how could she be free from personal sin, when the Bible says "all havs sinned...." And "there is none rightrous, no not one."

I just don't see our views of her as being biblical.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Hi I am new here.

I always wondered why we Orthodox put so much esteem on the Theotokos, when Christ said "among them that are born of women, there has not risen a greater then John the Baptist."

Also, how could she be free from personal sin, when the Bible says "all havs sinned...." And "there is none rightrous, no not one."

I just don't see our views of her as being biblical.

Coming from the misconceptions and misinformation of Protestantism, it took me awhile to come to terms with this as well. But "Henceforth all generations shall call me blessed" is Biblical. The view that when our Lord "gave" His Mother to St. John He was giving her to the Church and the Church to her has been part and parcel of Orthodox thought since the early days.

On the sinlessness of the Theotokos, there are different thoughts. She was raised in the temple, she was taught by angels, it is not altogether unreasonable to believe she was able to not commit sin. We do not believe as the Catholics do that she was any more "immaculate" than any other human, and was subject to sin and temptation but she chose NOT to sin. If anyone on this planet has actually achieved theosis, wouldn't it be her?

If I say I have the greatest dad in the whole world, am I now not allowed to esteem my mother as well? And if I think my uncle was a great guy as well does that take away from my esteem for my dad?

Actually there is so much available out there that explains this all in great detail. I recommend you simply google "Theotokos" and you will find an absolute wealth of information on the topic.

But no, our esteem and admiration is not in violation of Holy Scripture. Or so it seems to this bear of little brain.

Herman the Pooh

[Rick H.]

David--I think Herman the Helpful Pooh has steered you in a good direction. And, there is also some helpful info in Christian History & Biography magazine (issue 83 Summer 2004) that may prove to be an aid. Almost the whole issue is devoted to Mary as we see on the cover both the title under her icon "All generations will call her blessed" as well as a subtitle "Mary in the imagination of the church." I think with this too there is a balance to be found.

In Christ,
Rick

[Ioannis]

Since she is a sinless why she needs a saviour and calls the God as a Saviour?

Being a Theotokos does not make her to be sinless as God.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Since she is a sinless why she needs a saviour and calls the God as a Saviour?

Being a Theotokos does not make her to be sinless as God.

To be able to understand this, you need to learn about the Orthodox concept of Theosis.

The Apostle Paul commands us to be perfect, even as our Father in Heaven is perfect. Is he demanding the impossible? Do we not know that in God ALL THINGS are possible? We CAN be partakers of God's Divine energies, we can even choose NOT to sin. Sin is a sickness that can be cured by Christ. Even the Theotokos was born in the same condition as we were, including a sinful nature. But she is proof that in Christ we can choose not to sin in as much as we have Christ in us and we are willing to cooperate with Christ. It was her "yes" to God that brought salvation to the world. She is not the source of that salvation, but certainly a conduit for it. But as a mortal, subject to the consequences of sin, she also needed Christ.

She is holy, she is set apart for God, "humanity's singular true boast". Did the Theotokos sin? We we certainly like to think she did not. There is good reason to believe she did not, and no real evidence that she did.

But again we also get into that whole area of "what is sin". Orthodoxy has a much different definition than many Protestants. You really need to look at the whole picture. One little piece examined in isolation cannot tell the whole story. Or so it seems to this bear of little brain

Herman the Pooh