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RichardWorthington
17-02-2008, 05:49 PM
While reading the service book for the thread on sacraments and the Divine Light, I was rather taken by some of the references in the service of Marriage that I had not really noticed before (even though I had read it before getting married myself!).

In the service not only are the words from Ephesians read, "This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church" (Ephesians 5:32), but also the prayer stating that it is Christ who is the "Priest of mystical and pure marriage" (Hapgood p 295). This started me thinking. In the Book of Revelation we read of an angel saying to St John about the Church, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife", and he saw "the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God". Now significantly the shape of the new Jerusalem is given as follows, "Its length, breadth, and height are equal". (Revelation 21:9, 10-11,16; in Hebrews 12:22-23 the Church is referred to as the heavenly Jerusalem.)

This implies that the new Jerusalem is a cube, which is exactly the shape of the Holy of Holies in King Solomon’s Temple: "The inner sanctuary was twenty cubits long, twenty cubits wide, and twenty cubits high" (1 Kings 6:20). (This idea comes from Margaret Barker (http://www.margaretbarker.com/)’s book on Revelation.) Now the only person allowed into the Holy of Holies was the high priest, once a year, on the Day of Atonement (hence the phrase "the Day of the Lord", also used of the Last Day as well.)

However, when the high priest was truly holy, he came out of the Holy of Holies shining with Divine Glory (see Sirach 50:5-15). (Of course, the true high priest is Christ, and the true Holy of Holies is the Body of Christ, the Church.) Is this glory the ‘child’ of the union between the priest and the Holy of Holies? If so, then the union of husband and wife is to produce children who, shining with the Divine Light, "go forth and multiply" over the face of the earth, spreading God’s Glory everywhere. People wash in water, but Baptism is higher; people eat bread and wine, but the Eucharist is higher: is this something similar for marriage?

Marriage has often been seen as a lesser calling than monasticism. However, when true purity of heart is combined with marriage, is a higher symbol produced?

Richard
PS There are quite a few other interesting phrases in the marriage service, but this post is long enough!

Andreas Moran
17-02-2008, 06:07 PM
Marriage has often been seen as a lesser calling than monasticism.

Though marriage is one of the sacraments and I don't think the tonsuring of a monastic is.

Mary
17-02-2008, 06:34 PM
Though marriage is one of the sacraments and I don't think the tonsuring of a monastic is.

I've read somewhere that it is.

Antonios
17-02-2008, 07:36 PM
I remember reading somewhere that the sacraments of the Church are more than seven, though I may be wrong.

Paul Cowan
17-02-2008, 09:47 PM
I remember reading somewhere that the sacraments of the Church are more than seven, though I may be wrong.

This article (http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7105.asp)also touches on additional sacraments but does not go into depth. I thought there were only 7.


OTHER SACRAMENTS AND BLESSINGS
The Orthodox Church has never formally determined a particular number of Sacraments. In addition to the Eucharist she accepts the above six Mysteries as major Sacraments because they involve the entire community and most important are closely relation to the Eucharist. There are many other Blessings and Special Services which complete the major Sacraments, and which reflect the Church's presence throughout the lives of her people.


Paul

Herman Blaydoe
17-02-2008, 11:49 PM
Although the Church often refers to the 7 sacraments, it does so with a caveat that there are others as well, and the number 7 is not universally accepted. Some of the Fathers write that there are only 2 sacraments, baptism and the Eucharist. Many others note that any time the Holy Spirit acts in a perceptible way, it is sacramental. Some Orthodox writers differentiate between "major" sacraments and minor sacraments. I think there can be a possible parallel. We often talk about 7 "major" sins, I think it interesting that we also talk about 7 "major" sacraments.

Alec Lowly
17-02-2008, 11:49 PM
This article (http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7105.asp)also touches on additional sacraments but does not go into depth. I thought there were only 7.



Paul

I know a priest who says "everything the Church does is a sacrament," i.e., is sacramental in nature ...

Antonios
18-02-2008, 04:26 AM
Many others note that any time the Holy Spirit acts in a perceptible way, it is sacramental.


I know a priest who says "everything the Church does is a sacrament," i.e., is sacramental in nature ...


This is similar to what I have read...

Vasiliki D.
25-02-2009, 05:20 AM
Though marriage is one of the sacraments and I don't think the tonsuring of a monastic is.

Can I post a joke? I think that is seen that way because monks have been much more clever at "marketing" their lifestyle than the married Orthodox ...

We do have Saint John of Kronstand thank God for a counter balance ...

Father David Moser
25-02-2009, 03:49 PM
Though marriage is one of the sacraments and I don't think the tonsuring of a monastic is.

Actually it depends on who you talk to. Monastic tonsure is not on the list of "the seven sacraments" however that enumeration is quite arbitrary. Orthodoxy has never really enumerated the sacraments saying, for example, that marriage is a sacrament and monastic tonsure is not. The "seven sacraments" is more an enumeration of the seven most common sacraments - or seven sacraments that are basic to life of the Church. Two sacramental acts which do not appear in the list of seven are monastic tonsure and Christian burial (the funeral). Because these are not listed among the seven does not make them any less a sacrament than the fact that because the Holy Apostle Paul is not among the 12 Apostles he is not an apostle.

In my opinion, the sacrament of matrimony, by its existence and place in the life of the Church implies the sacrament of monastic tonsure. I do not mean to imply that monasticism is being "married to Jesus" as some of the Roman views would express it, but rather monasticism defines a particular social relationship within the Church and it is a sanctified commitment to a particular life, just as marriage is.

Fr David Moser

Michael Astley
28-02-2009, 10:03 PM
My understanding is that it is Catholicism, not Orthodoxy, that has fixed the number of sacraments at seven. They recognise other rites as "sacramentals" but draw a distinction between these and proper "sacraments". I suspect that the reference to "the seven sacraments" in Orthodox circles is due to non-Orthodox western influence.

In Christ,
Michael

Alex Haig
28-02-2009, 11:58 PM
Sacrament, although used by many Orthodox writers and speakers, is not really the best word: Mystery better describes the Orthodox understanding. It is not in the crime fiction sense of something to be solved but rather something to be lived and into which we grow.

Any time the Escaton, the Kingdom, breaks through and touches our lives here and now it is a Mystery. The question now becomes: "how does our understanding of marriage affect our view on the age to come?" Or rather: "how does our understanding on the age to come affect our view of marriage?"

I ask forgiveness from you all.

With love in Christ

Alex