The nature of penance

[Allen Long]

Hello, Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

Coming from an evangelical protestant background, I do not have any reference for understanding the practice of penance. I know about repentance, but penance has always been related to me as a works orientation towards salvation. I don't agree that it is a works orientation towards salvation. Perhaps this has already been discussed in a previous thread. If you would give me the link, then I will read.

To summarize: what is penance?

Thank you for your help.

All glory to Jesus Christ!

Allen Long

[Silouan Howard]

Hello, Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

Coming from an evangelical protestant background, I do not have any reference for understanding the practice of penance. I know about repentance, but penance has always been related to me as a works orientation towards salvation. I don't agree that it is a works orientation towards salvation. Perhaps this has already been discussed in a previous thread. If you would give me the link, then I will read.

To summarize: what is penance?

Thank you for your help.

All glory to Jesus Christ!

Allen Long

A penance is somthing the priest gives to the penitent to help correct and heal the sin being confessed. A penance can come in the form of assigned reading, additional prayers/prostrations during your personal prayer vigil, or simply meeting and talking with the priest. Its good to note that its not a punishment for a sin, but a means to help the penitent gain God's grace and freedom from their enslavement to the passions. A penance is given based on a person's strength and maturity according to the discretion of the father confessor.

[Nina]

When we sin we follow our own will instead of God's will. In other words we have not lifted the cross that Christ tells us to and follow Him. We sin and take the easy way.

For instance if a woman aborted for different reasons that may appear as justifying in her circumstances, she chose her will instead of God's Will in this case. When one woman I know went to her spiritual father and confessed about the abortions she had committed (although the reasons and circumstances "justified" somehow the abortions), he wanted to give her a penance to wear black clothes during her entire life. However since she suffered from a grave illness he did not give that penance (of black clothes), recognizing that the illness in her case was acting as a penance from God. Here it is important to mention that NOT all illnesses have that role. There are righteous people who suffer from many things like we know from Job and other righteous people's stories.

[Allen Long]

Thank you, for these explanations. Very helpful for me!

All glory to Jesus Christ!

Allen Long

[Nina]

All glory to Jesus Christ!

Allen Long

Yes!

Penance acts as a further purifying agent after confessing, actually it works in synergy with confession. Also the obedience involved is very beneficial for our soul, since in order to do the penance we need to obey to our spiritual father (for instance not to receive Holy Communion for a week). Penance is in other words a little cross to lift and by obeying our spiritual father in lifting that cross we are really obeying to Christ and we humble ourselves before Him, which is very important since sin is executed because of our pride.

[Allen Long]

Yes!

Penance acts as a further purifying agent after confessing, actually it works in synergy with confession. Also the obedience involved is very beneficial for our soul, since in order to do the penance we need to obey to our spiritual father (for instance not to receive Holy Communion for a week). Penance is in other words a little cross to lift and by obeying our spiritual father in lifting that cross we are really obeying to Christ and we humble ourselves before Him, which is very important since sin is executed because of our pride.


It seems that penance plays a vital role in theosis.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Several priests I have known have not been fond of the word "penance". Those who do use it do so in more of a theraputic rather than punitive manner. They think of it as therapy for the illness of sin rather than punishment because you have been "bad". We are not "earning points", rather we are being healed.

When you go to a physical therapist, you may experience pain, it may be hard, it may be "work", but you are not "earning" your freedom from pain and use of that limb. You are simply doing what needs to be done to be well, in the best judgement and experience of the doctor/therapist.

Herman

[Andreas Moran]

I don't recall that Christ imposed any penances when He forgave sins.

[Herman Blaydoe]

I don't recall that Christ imposed any penances when He forgave sins.

And neither do a lot of Orthodox priests. But others, as I have said, seem to find it useful in certain situations. It is NOT a universal Orthodox practice.

Herman

[Father David Moser]

I don't recall that Christ imposed any penances when He forgave sins.


And neither do a lot of Orthodox priests. But others, as I have said, seem to find it useful in certain situations. It is NOT a universal Orthodox practice.

Penances were not given as a condition of forgiveness - that was always given freely by Christ. "Penances" were however frequently given by Christ for the healing of soul and body. "Go to the pool and wash", "Go and sell all that you have, give it to the poor and come and follow me", "Go, show yourselves to the priests". All of these instructions and more were given as a condition of healing/salvation. Penances are not given as a condition of forgiveness, but rather as a "prescription" or "therapy" for healing of the soul.

Btw, for the above reason, I do not like the use of the term "penance" as it has the wrong connotations, I prefer to refer to such instructions as an "obedience" or something similar.

Fr David Moser

[Nina]

And neither do a lot of Orthodox priests. But others, as I have said, seem to find it useful in certain situations. It is NOT a universal Orthodox practice.

Herman

I see this phrase a lot here:


It is NOT a universal Orthodox practice.What does that mean anyway? Maybe we should look for the genuine Orthodoxy, instead of universal (in the meaning as used here). Since universal (in this particular meaning) can be corrupted, but genuine it is just that: original.

In any case as you see, Fr. David provided examples when Christ gave penance to people. Plus He did not come to give us penance, He came to be crucified. It is like with the fasting when He said that we can fast as much as we can after He ascends. So by the reasoning you give because they did not fast with Christ, we should not fast.

Plus the word penance is problematic in English language. In Greek we use the word epitimia, or kanona.

It is up to the discernment and the inspiration our spiritual father receives from the Holy Spirit to give us penance, or not.

[Mary]

What does that mean anyway? Maybe we should look for the genuine Orthodoxy, instead of universal (in the meaning as used here). Since universal (in this particular meaning) can be corrupted, but genuine it is just that: original.

Plus the word penance is problematic in English language. In Greek we use the word epitimia, or kanona.

It is up to the discernment and the inspiration our spiritual father receives from the Holy Spirit to give us penance, or not.


Simple really, you explained it yourself. 'Not universal' simply means you either get a penance or not, according to the discernment of your spiritual father. It just means, you don't get a penance, every single time you go to confession.

You're right about 'penance' being a problematic word. When you go to the doctor, and you are diabetic, and you're told not to eat sugar anymore, you don't say you've received a penance, and you don't feel like you're being punished. And that's exactly what's happening when your spiritual father tells you to do something. If you've confessed that you stolen something, then you'll be told to make restitution... On the other hand, if you confess that you were strongly tempted to steal, you don't need to make restitution. You might have to do something else, or nothing at all.

I dunno. That's the way it seems to me.

Also, even if you're spiritual father doesn't give you a penance, isn't it possible to give yourself one? For example, I've often confessed to spending too much time online, and my priest has never told me to limit myself to an hour or two. And yet, my conscience won't give me peace, if I do not keep track of the time I spend online, and without his telling me to, there are many things I've stopped doing (or at least tried, and continue to try!) But then, maybe the reason he doesn't tell me to, is because he knows I'll try to make the changes on my own anyway. Actually, maybe he doesnt' tell me to, because then, it'll be something I absolutely HAVE to obey, and since I'm weak and seriously lack self control, it'll be too much for me to obey. I dunno.

Too much to think about. So glad I'll never be a priest! =)

In Christ,
mary.

[Nina]

Simple really, you explained it yourself. 'Not universal' simply means you either get a penance or not, according to the discernment of your spiritual father. It just means, you don't get a penance, every single time you go to confession.

In Christ,
mary.

That was a rhetorical question dear Mary. 'Not universal' as Herman uses the expression (since he uses it a lot I am an expert by now) means that not all Orthodox practice it. And that is not correct. There is a huge difference between the expression "not universal" and "according to the discernment of your spiritual father"


Too much to think about. So glad I'll never be a priest! =) The priest gets inspired on the spot by the Holy Spirit on what to say to the person confessing. That is why it is called a Mystery. That is why by obeying to our spiritual father we obey to God.

[Nina]

Also, even if you're spiritual father doesn't give you a penance, isn't it possible to give yourself one? For example, I've often confessed to spending too much time online, and my priest has never told me to limit myself to an hour or two. And yet, my conscience won't give me peace, if I do not keep track of the time I spend online, and without his telling me to, there are many things I've stopped doing (or at least tried, and continue to try!) But then, maybe the reason he doesn't tell me to, is because he knows I'll try to make the changes on my own anyway. Actually, maybe he doesnt' tell me to, because then, it'll be something I absolutely HAVE to obey, and since I'm weak and seriously lack self control, it'll be too much for me to obey. I dunno.

In Christ,
mary.

Of course we have to exercise self-control. That is why fasting (one form of penances to Orthodox) exists. However I have never heard that you can give yourself a penance. :) We do not have the discernment and many other things that a spiritual father has. Elder Paisios, Elder Porphyrios both write that pushing yourself beyond capabilities is very harmful for the soul and it can be even demonic (since it is a temptation from the evil one and we obey and fall in vainglory when we think that we are achieving so much spiritually by pushing ourselves harder).

A spiritual father has the necessary discernment and blessing and preparation to give penance. Penance is also given gradually not as an overwhelming task that would break the soul instead of healing it from the passions.

There is a beautiful story (forgot who it was and where I read it) of a spiritual father who received for the first time in confession a brutal criminal, murderer who stole and lived by the robberies he did. When the person confessed, the spiritual father told him as a penance "try next time when you kill, to spare the children please". The next time the killer confessed that he killed many people but he did obey not to kill children. His next penance? Spare women. He obeyed and confessed the next time that he killed only men. The spiritual father said "ok now you can steal but try not to kill men". And the person obeyed and the penance next time was not to steal but start working and so on. At the end when the person was a restored man he confessed to the spiritual father. "I came here because I had heard about you and wanted to be saved. However I had planed that if you had ordered me not to kill and steal, I would have killed you instantly." (Pardon please the poor paraphrasing of this beautiful story).