View Full Version : Making time for prayer, and times of prayer
Dearest all,
How do you find time to pray and how much time do you find? I am having terrible time with this issue. I need a lot of time to be praying truly--sort of like a long warm-up--before the real prayer begins, and it could take a lot of time. In the meantime, I am distracted with thoughts that I am depriving myself and loved ones of my company. But then I know that to be who I am I need my time with God. Sometimes I calm myself down by saying that it's not important how much I pray, but how I pray, but I do need the warm-up, and that takes time. Sometimes I calm myself by saying that it's not important how long I pray at home before I go to bed as long as I keep saying the Jesus prayer during the day, but I do not feel that that's enough for me. So I am in this vicious circle of needing the time and and the same time feeling guilty for taking it. Does anyone of you who are married have 1-2 hours to dedicate to prayer every day? How do you do it? Perhaps it's just a period of my life when I need more intense prayer, and I should just take this time.
Michael Stickles
29-02-2008, 05:47 AM
Since my wife is a morning person, she gets up at 5:00 to pray in our spare room (which is her regular prayer room); rarely is anyone else up before 6:15. I'm a night owl, so if I need extra time I just stay up as late as I need to.
Mike
Dearest all,
How do you find time to pray and how much time do you find? I am having terrible time with this issue. I need a lot of time to be praying truly--sort of like a long warm-up--before the real prayer begins, and it could take a lot of time.
I am not married but I have to say that my mom used to wake up at 2 or 3 AM because she loved the silence of the night to pray to God. I can't do it, but she did it and she was super busy working, family, and many other responsibilities. So do not loose heart it can be done, also as Mike says. As long as you have the desire and the urge.
Fathers recommend a spiritual reading (Bible, Fathers, lives of Saints) before you pray because they say that it inspires compunction of the heart and it just sends you immediately to your knees (ok the knee part are my words and I did not read them from Fathers). Also you can light a candle, turn off the lights and play some chant while you read. However just reading Fathers alone will work so well to bring you to compunction and often to tears. If you can't sleep one night, use it for prayer; if you are hiking/walking, pray; you are washing dishes, pray; riding the bus, pray; driving the car, play chants/services and try to pray along and so on. You get the idea. When my mom passed away and I could not sleep, I would lull myself to sleep by holding a komboskini in my hand and saying "Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me the sinner" repeatedly until I would fall asleep. It brought a lot of peace.
I have read that it is actually very good to pray at midnight, and at three in the morning.
Effie Ganatsios
29-02-2008, 07:17 AM
Anya, in your busy day, don't you have some time alone? I'm not working now, except for exam periods but when I was I usually prayed just before bedtime. I now enjoy the quiet of the early morning for my morning prayers while continuing the evening prayers as before.
The Jesus prayer can be said all during the day, while you are doing other things.
I found this on this site :
First Homily on Prayer St. Theophan the Recluse
Prayer itself is the piercing of our hearts by pious feelings towards God.....
I've been thinking about the above continuously since I first read it.
Effie
Herman Blaydoe
29-02-2008, 02:07 PM
You don't "find" time, you make time. You prioritize your time and act accordingly. What is really important to you will generally get done, things of lesser importance, not so much. When prayer becomes a priority, it will get done. Right now you have higher priorities. Think about that.
You either take charge of your time, or you let time take charge of you. Plain and simple.
You don't "find" time, you make time.
I learned an important lesson about time a few days back. I was watching clips of an interview with a famous new conductor, who is also very young. Forgot his name. He's from Venezuela, and he came to the attention of the world when he entered a conducting contest. He's in his 20s. I think. Anyway, one of the judges was the conductor of the Philharmonic Orchestra, and he was totally blown away by this kid who hasn't completely mastered English yet, and he got the boy to conduct the Philharmonic in Sweden, I think. Maybe it was Switzerland. It's irrelevant. Since then, he's been all over the world. So the interviewer was asking him where his 'home' is now, and the boy said: The airplane.
Then the interviewer asked him how it is he finds time to do all the things he does and still practice his music and stuff. His answer, (which he had trouble coming up with, because it looked like he was searching deep into his heart to come up with just the right words to express his deep feeling): "When you love something with your whole heart, you have time."
That hit me where it hurt. A quick look at my daily expenditure of time, told me what it is that I truly love and prayer wasn't at the top.
In Christ,
mary.
Moses Ibrahim
29-02-2008, 06:49 PM
Amma Syncletica said, "In the beginning there are a great many battles and a good deal of suffering for those who are advancing towards God and, afterwards, ineffable joy. It is like those who wish to light a fire. At first they are choked with smoke and cry, until they obtain what they seek. As it is written, "Our God is a consuming fire" (Hebrews 12:24); so we also must kindle the divine fire in ourselves through tears and hard work."
Mary James
29-02-2008, 09:12 PM
Continue to do the Jesus prayer around the house and wherever you are since it's hard to find some time to pray. You said that you feel like this is not enough, try doing the trisagion prayers or say prayers that you know off your memory while doing your work.
Also, sometimes we do unnecessary work, see what things have to be done during the day and do them, those of which are not that important, leave them off for a bit and use that time for prayer.
May God bless you.
Maria
Also you can light a candle, turn off the lights and play some chant while you read. However just reading Fathers alone will work so well to brin If you can't sleep one night, use it for prayer; if you are hiking/walking, pray; you are washing dishes, pray; riding the bus, pray; driving the car, play chants/services and try to pray along and so on. You get the idea.
I could not agree with you more, dear Nina. This again, is something I've gained on my path to Orthodoxy through the Celts. And it gave me meaning to the verse 'to pray without ceasing' 1 Thess. 5:17 and to ask Christ to 'hold every thought captive' 2 Cor. 10:5 Our life is a continual prayer.
In Alexander Carmichael's Carmina Gadelica, he has collected the prayers, hymns, rituals of the peoples of the Scottish Highlands and Islands that had been handed down to them for generation upon generation. In this volume, very frequently one will find prayers to the Holy Trinity upon rising from bed, upon tending the fire, upon milking the cow, upon their fields as they sow and harvest ...in other words, prayers upon all they do in the day from the time they rise to the time they sleep. There was not a portion of life left out of prayer.
And so, Anya, while I also read prayers from The Hours of Prayer as part of an early morning routine, I also take occasions to pray throughout the day over my 'mundane' tasks. I will pray for you - that your prayer life may flow throughout your day and that an unhealthy guilt will not invade you.
Blessings
Father David Moser
29-02-2008, 10:02 PM
I am not married but I have to say that my mom used to wake up at 2 or 3 AM because she loved the silence of the night to pray to God. ...
I have read that it is actually very good to pray at midnight, and at three in the morning.
I read an article recently about the changes in sleep patterns over the years and across the oceans. In North America now it is considered normal and healthy to go to bed at night and sleep 8 hours straight through, however, in other cultures and in other times it was much more common to sleep early for a few hours, then awaken in the middle of the night and do "quiet work" and then go to sleep again in the morning for a few more hours before rising to do the work of the day.
When I visited Holy Trinity Monastery for the first time, I was rather shocked that after breakfast all the monks would go to their rooms to "rest" for a couple of hours and the majority of the work would be done in the afternoon. I thought that they were lazy - until the next day when, having gone to sleep at about 11 or 12, everyone was awakened at 3am to go to the Church for midnight service, morning prayers, matins, hours and Liturgy after which we had breakfast. Then I understood the need for a little rest after such labor at prayer.
Fr David Moser
Andreas Moran
29-02-2008, 11:13 PM
A woman visited St Seraphim (Sarovsky).
'Do you pray, my joy?', he asked.
'Oh, after a fashion, Father, but what kind of prayer is it! I am a sinner! Often there is really no time', she replied.
'Never mind', said Batushka. 'I just wanted to tell you not to worry about that. When you have time, don't be idle, but keep the whole rule and pray. But if you haven't time, my joy, say the small rule in the morning, at midday and at night too even while at work.
. . .
'Only don't fail somehow or other to make prostrations to the Saviour and the Mother of God. Make them at all costs.'
St Seraphim's small rule, for those with no time, is as follows:
"Let every Christian on rising from sleep, stand before the Icons and read the Lord's prayer 'Our Father' three times in honour of the Most Holy Trinity, then the song to the Mother of God 'Hail Mother of God and Virgin' also three times, and finally the Creed 'I believe in one God . . . ' once.
"The above prayers", explained Father Seraphim, "are the foundation of Christianity . . . By keeping this simple rule", said Father, "it is possible to reach a measure of Christian perfection and divine love."
See 'St Seraphim of Sarov A Spiritual Biography' by Archimandrite Lazarus Moore, pp 229, and 227-228.
When I have early morning lectures, I say this small rule in the car on my way to work. In that 10 minutes' journey, I can say this small rule, into which I put psalm 50, and also pray for my living and departed people. From the car park to my office I say the Jesus Prayer. Then, before each class, I pray: 'Lord Jesus Christ: bless the work that I do that it may be pleasing to Thee and beneficial to my students. Amen'. It must be possible for each of us, according to our routines and the work in which God has placed us, to fit in such prayers. No one could be more negligent than I but even this that I do does, as Elder Sophrony puts it (though suggesting a longer prayer), stamp the day with its effect.
Effie Ganatsios
01-03-2008, 08:28 AM
Habits can be formed that will help each of us personally.
One habit I have cultivated the last couple of years is listening to the liturgy each morning on the radio followed by a short lecture on one of the saints being celebrated that day. I find that this somehow points my whole day in the right direction. Going to church, of course, and celebrating the liturgy there is even better but this is not always practical.
We can all find various ways of organizing our day. First make a list of priorities. First priority: prayer.
The lives of nuns are organized so intelligently. There is a certain time allocated each day for prayer, for physical work, for reading,
for recreation, etc. If they are in the middle of something when the bell or signal is struck telling them that the time for this particular occupation is over, they quickly finish whatever they are doing and start the next phase of the day.
Time in a nun's life is not wasted - God's time.
I should add that wasting time is a huge problem with me. That's why I research it so much. I even have a large sign in my office that says STOP ORGANIZING, GET UP AND OUT OF YOUR CHAIR AND START WORKING! (Polite version).
Effie Ganatsios
01-03-2008, 08:45 AM
Anya, rereading your original message I remembered something that Mother Gavrilia said and found it in her book :
Question : Still, everyday life, work, marriage, children, cares, worries, all these leave you no time for anything else. You want to, but you don't have the time...
Mother G : You don't need time. Because as I have told you, Prayer is a state of the soul. As we read in the Way of a Pilgrim, when you wash the dishes, keep saying "Lord, have mercy upon me".. Lord, have mercy upon me"... Whatever we do in a day, we can do it while keeping in our mind and in our heart the Notion of God, a constant awareness of the Existence of God, as if listening to a background music.... Nothing is impossible."
I also remember reading that she always set aside a part of her day after returning from the morning liturgy for time alone with God. This was when she was living in a small apartment in Athens and when her afternoons were spent receiving visitors who had heard about her and wanted advice. Unfortunately I couldn't find the text I wanted so that I could post it for you.
Effie
Andreas Moran
01-03-2008, 10:01 AM
I should add that wasting time is a huge problem with me.
Oh, and me too, Effie! Time is one of the gifts God created for us, a much undervalued and neglected gift. One is tempted to focus on more obvious sins but wasting time (and misusing it) is, to my mind, a graver sin that might at first be thought.
Victor Mihailoff
01-03-2008, 10:30 AM
Dearest all,
How do you find time to pray and how much time do you find? I am having terrible time with this issue. I need a lot of time to be praying truly--sort of like a long warm-up--before the real prayer begins, and it could take a lot of time. In the meantime, I am distracted with thoughts that I am depriving myself and loved ones of my company. But then I know that to be who I am I need my time with God. Sometimes I calm myself down by saying that it's not important how much I pray, but how I pray, but I do need the warm-up, and that takes time. Sometimes I calm myself by saying that it's not important how long I pray at home before I go to bed as long as I keep saying the Jesus prayer during the day, but I do not feel that that's enough for me. So I am in this vicious circle of needing the time and and the same time feeling guilty for taking it. Does anyone of you who are married have 1-2 hours to dedicate to prayer every day? How do you do it? Perhaps it's just a period of my life when I need more intense prayer, and I should just take this time.
Hello Anya, God bless your desire to pray.
I say first of all, pray to have time to pray. I and many other people, including priests, find that Blessed Xenia of Petersburg is very fast at answering prayers for finding something. It can be a lost item, a passage in an Orthodox book you need to help someone, an answer to a question or problem, the need to find time to pray.
She answers very fast when you've been praying to her often or for long but sometimes she answers quickly anyway. I had this deacon of the 7th Day Adventist Church visiting my neighbourhood from time to time. I wanted to find written documentation to back up the practice of Sunday worship as his faith worships on the old sabbath day, Saturday. I sat in my room and asked Blessed Xenia to find something in print to show him next visit. Immediately I got the urge to walk over to my bookcase full of Orthodox books. My hand reached for a book I had not opened in years. I randomly opened it to any page. The page explained why we worship on Sundays. The same exact thing happened with two more books. One minute after I asked Blessed Xenia for help, I had three references to offer the deacon. It did not help, he still tried to convert me to his faith & I tried to do the same.
I have other stories about prayers answered for me by Blessed Xenia, one of which was a real undoubtable miracle of materialization of the lost item right before my eyes but that's for another time. Remember that we must give what is due to God first and all else will come to us. If you devote time to prayer, the remaining time you have will be used more efficiently. I mean like say you have to study for some course. Normally you may study say three hours on five nights per week. You need to repeat somethings you read a few times to commit them to memory. Now after you start giving an hour a day to prayer or an hour more than before per day to prayer, you find that the routine study is completed in less time and you remember more of what you studied with less repetitions of the reading. The same applies to work and other tasks.
A Christian builder, not Orthodox but I won't name his well known faith here so as not to upset anyone, had completed building a new church building in an Orthodox convent more than a decade ago in Australia. When the nuns and the local parishioners were holding their first liturgy in the new church the builder attended for some reason. In that monastic church the plate/s were not passed around but instead people placed $5 notes or greater sums into a plate after kissing the cross.
The builder placed a $4,000 cheque/check in the plate. The nuns were astonished and tried to return the check/cheque to him asking why did he do this. He replied that whenever he is building, things never work to plan. He will order exactly what his calculations tell him should be ordered and then he always runs short of bricks, wood, plasterboard, electrical conduits, paint etc. etc. Also some men always get injured and need medical treatment and time off to recover. The deadline is always running on overtime and he makes less money than anticipated. Some things are built wrong from the start and must be re-built.
He said that when he built this, his first church, absolutely nothing went wrong. No materials ran out early, no one was injured , nothing needed to be re-built and he saved thousands of dollars that were normally never saved. He said none of his men argued as they always did. Everyone showed up for work every day and he felt a spiritual peace and blessedness that he never felt before. He implored the nuns to let him thank God in this way.
Do you get my drift? If you give your time to God He will make more time for you. Got wants you near Him. He wont let harm come to you when you reach out to Him in prayer. I cannot find the words I'm seeking now in the Bible and I really have no more time to do so (I hope that doesn't sound hypocritical) but there are words in the N.T. to the effect that if you do your duty to God first, everything else you need will follow from that. But if you aim to be busy with other duties first, you will never find enough time for God, because you showed to yourself your own lack of faith in the promises of the Word of God. Read the N.T, every day. Just a page a day to start.
I really have no more time. Pray to Blessed Xenia to find time and ways to pray every day. God bless you and yours! Victor.
Andreas Moran
01-03-2008, 04:23 PM
I looked at the 'New Posts' page and saw the Google advertisement panel. I clicked on the one that said the world was doomed this year according to a book called, '2008 God's Final Witness'. The urbane-looking Mr Weinland cuts an unlikely prophet of doom but it seems God appointed him in 1997 as a prophet to the religions of Abraham: Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. What God did not reveal to the Apostle John on Patmos He has now revealed to Mr Weinland. It seems we really must redouble our prayer effort. (At least I can worry less now about my pension arrangements.)
I read an article recently about the changes in sleep patterns over the years and across the oceans. In North America now it is considered normal and healthy to go to bed at night and sleep 8 hours straight through, however, in other cultures and in other times it was much more common to sleep early for a few hours, then awaken in the middle of the night and do "quiet work" and then go to sleep again in the morning for a few more hours before rising to do the work of the day.
When I visited Holy Trinity Monastery for the first time, I was rather shocked that after breakfast all the monks would go to their rooms to "rest" for a couple of hours and the majority of the work would be done in the afternoon. I thought that they were lazy - until the next day when, having gone to sleep at about 11 or 12, everyone was awakened at 3am to go to the Church for midnight service, morning prayers, matins, hours and Liturgy after which we had breakfast. Then I understood the need for a little rest after such labor at prayer.
Fr David Moser
My mother went to bed around 9PM (if there were not guests for long dinners). She woke up very early (2-3 AM) so she had all the housework and the meals of the day done and at 5AM she and my father started their job (private business which was near by -therefore they did not have to spend time commuting). But they could not close the place of work and come home and take rest and naps. When there were people over, or us all they would come for lunch. Therefore she had some advantages about her time: no commuting, and she was working with her husband.
She loved praying during the early hours as she often told me it is delightful to pray when the world around is asleep and quiet; and she also loved praying and looking at the starry sky on the east-side, which was one of her favorite spot at home.
Also during the hours when she was home, our home was always full with neighbors, friends, cousins, family, strangers and she made all feel so special and dedicated so much time to others also. I do not know how she did all of the things she did (she found time for everything from handiwork and gardening to attending church services - by the way she was first at church before the church wold even open and we teased that she should carry the keys of the church). However honestly I can not do anything like that! From what I know females in her family in the past were like my mother. Oh by the way she and my dad created a little shelter for homeless cats and dogs near their place of work and would also spend time visiting them and feeding and playing with them. I can go on. It makes me feel like I am doing zero things with my time, but on the other hand when I need motivation I know that many things are possible and I can make time work for me.
Effie Ganatsios
02-03-2008, 07:25 AM
Anya, a couple of weeks ago I joined the choir of our organization Children's Shelter - God help us all because my voice is not 100% but I was told "whose is?"..... I was given a small folder of songs and poems. Last night I was putting it in order and found this : (I translated it into English)
I woke early one morning
and hurried to start my day.
I had so much to do
that I didn't have time to pray.
I tried to draw near to God
I tried all the keys to heaven's door................
A gentle admonishment from God was heard
"My child, why didn't you knock on My door?"
I woke early this morning
and paused, before starting my day;
I had so much to do
that I had to find time to pray.
It's simple and sweet, don't you think?
Effie
What a sweet song, Effie! I have heard something similar--a story about a priest. To the bewilderment of people around him, the priest used to pray a lot more hours than usual on those days when his schedule was very busy.
*
A general theme is formed in your responses--waste of time. Some time ago, I was watching an interview with Antonio Banderas, who has quite a long marriage. He was asked how he does it, and his response was that he loves his wife, and that he gives her the gift of time. I did not think that Entertainment Tonight could be such an educational show, but so it was that night.
As far as priorities go. I do not think that prayer is priority number 1. It does not make sense for someone to get up early in the morning in order to pray for 2 hours, and then to be cranky to everyone around them.
Also, with prayer, sometimes it's a bit tricky--one cannot force God's presence, and occasionally the enemy really pulls his tricks so that the more one tries, the further away one becomes from God. I was reading about this from Gerontius Porfirius, and in my experience, that's quite right.
Thank you everyone for letting me know your thoughts and how you face this challenge.
Paul Cowan
03-03-2008, 04:49 AM
Whether you "feel" like it or you not or whether you "Feel" like your prayers are bouncing off the ceiling back to you or you just don't "feel" like it right now, today or later. Don't stop. God sees the intent of your heart. He knows you are trying. So try. Don't give in. Run the race before you even if it is just a 2 minute sprint. We can all stop for 45 seconds before heading out the door in the morning and say the Lord's Prayer. More if we are able.
Paul
Andreas Moran
03-03-2008, 10:56 AM
Whether you "feel" like it or you not or whether you "Feel" like your prayers are bouncing off the ceiling back to you or you just don't "feel" like it right now, today or later. Don't stop. God sees the intent of your heart. He knows you are trying. So try. Don't give in. Run the race before you even if it is just a 2 minute sprint. We can all stop for 45 seconds before heading out the door in the morning and say the Lord's Prayer. More if we are able.
Paul
Exactly right, Paul.
Peter S.
04-03-2008, 12:02 AM
Fathers recommend a spiritual reading (Bible, Fathers, lives of Saints) before you pray because they say that it inspires compunction of the heart and it just sends you immediately to your knees (ok the knee part are my words and I did not read them from Fathers).
I have read that it is actually very good to pray at midnight, and at three in the morning.
Dear Nina,
What you wrote about "sends you to your knees" was funny to me because reminded me of a photo on the internet (a page linked from here), of a monk on Athos praying on his knees in the wilderness. Never seen that before. Maybe many monks do that. I think St. Seraphim did that on a stone too. Its good to know about his small prayer rule. Thank you for posting it Andreas.
I pray some morningprayers (including Our Father ,Trisaghion, Hail Mary, Rejoice Mary, Troparion to the holy Cross, prayer for the living and dead, and their names) when I walk to the metro, at the metro and walking to the University monday to friday. I just have to do that or else the day will not be fine. At least the words bumps out as you write Paul.
I know it is a good time to pray when the birds start to sing and the time when the "world awakes", and even before that, but I seldom do it because I sleep. That is a perfect time to pray, (as anytime).
Peter
Peter S.
04-03-2008, 12:28 AM
One thing I must say is that when I pray walking and sitting on the metro I dont watch an icon. That is a missing part. But I do at my eveningprayers luckily.
Peter
One thing I must say is that when I pray walking and sitting on the metro I dont watch an icon. That is a missing part. But I do at my eveningprayers luckily.
Peter
Why do not you keep a paper icon with you in a small book and you can pray and look @ it in the metro if you are sitting. I keep an icon of Panagia and baby Christ in my wallet all the time because you never know when I might need to look at. And I have another little wallet with library ID, license and so on and there I keep 2 icons: Christ on one side and Panagia with Christ on the other. It is interesting because usually when I open them to look for ID, or card the person behind the counter who needs to see the ID, is noticing actually the icons behind the transparent compartment of the wallet and starts asking about different things so they can understand about the icons which they usually have referred to as pictures. :)
I know it is a good time to pray when the birds start to sing and the time when the "world awakes", and even before that, but I seldom do it because I sleep. That is a perfect time to pray, (as anytime).
Peter
Yes of course it is very good to pray all the time and whenever we can and we must not pressure ourselves.
About 3AM I have read (sorry I do not remember where) that it is the time when the evil one has power (because it is the opposite of 3PM when Christ was crucified), that is why it is beneficial to pray at that time. But I am asleep also and can't pray at that time... :(
Paul Cowan
04-03-2008, 05:32 AM
About 3AM I have read (sorry I do not remember where) that it is the time when the evil one has power
This is also right after all the bars close so those that are "not themselves' are more open to demonic influence and temptation. So what better time to ensnare your foe than when he is incapable of defending himself? If the devil is more powerful at this time because we are so weak, we should all pray for all the holy fathers and monks of the world to be awake praying for us at this time.
Paul
Effie Ganatsios
04-03-2008, 09:38 AM
Dear Nina,
What you wrote about "sends you to your knees" was funny to me because reminded me of a photo on the internet (a page linked from here), of a monk on Athos praying on his knees in the wilderness. Never seen that before. Maybe many monks do that. I think St. Seraphim did that on a stone too. Its good to know about his small prayer rule. Thank you for posting it Andreas.
I pray some morningprayers (including Our Father ,Trisaghion, Hail Mary, Rejoice Mary, Troparion to the holy Cross, prayer for the living and dead, and their names) when I walk to the metro, at the metro and walking to the University monday to friday. I just have to do that or else the day will not be fine. At least the words bumps out as you write Paul.
I know it is a good time to pray when the birds start to sing and the time when the "world awakes", and even before that, but I seldom do it because I sleep. That is a perfect time to pray, (as anytime).
Peter
Peter, for me both morning and evening prayers are blessings from God. In the early morning you are thankful that you are alive and that a beautiful day is before you. Mother Gavrilia says that each day is a blank page and God writes what He wants on it. So exciting!
In the evening, you feel tired and happy that the day has passed peacefully, you review your actions i.e. why in the world did I open my big mouth! or "why couldn't I have been kinder to her" etc. You feel satisfied if you have finished something sucessfully, nothing like a completed job to make you feel good..... you ask God's forgiveness for the sins you have committed that day - and believe me we all have lots of sins to repent of. And then you commit yourself to God's keeping, taking the time to say a little prayer to your Guardian Angel as well.
Our daily prayers are blessings.
And there's no need to be rigid about anything. Some days one thing works, other days another thing works better. As long as we stay connected to God, we can pray with our hearts no matter where we are or how much time we have.
As Paul or Herman said (forgive me I don't remember exactly), we make time. And all the benefits and blessings are ours.
Effie
This is also right after all the bars close so those that are "not themselves' are more open to demonic influence and temptation. So what better time to ensnare your foe than when he is incapable of defending himself? If the devil is more powerful at this time because we are so weak, we should all pray for all the holy fathers and monks of the world to be awake praying for us at this time.
Paul
Yes dear Paul the monasteries have prayer all night. That is why we say that monasteries are so important. Actually there are holy people in the world that through prayer and deification they are like pillars and because of their prayer God has mercy on us and because of them the world still revolves. So thank God for the monastics we have and the holy people. As for me as a sinner it is difficult enough to pray when I am awake, let alone at 3AM. :( However there are non-monastics also who sacrifice a lot to pray. I read about an Orthodox parish here in USA that during Great Lent they will all dedicate time to pray and it will be in a chain form even during night time. Therefore they will pray as a parish, as a community non-stop during Great Lent! I was so moved by their dedication.
Paul you are right that there are many bad things happening in the world. Elder Paisios has said that in our times there is much danger in the world and God and Panagia and the saints look intently over us like a mother. In the past there were not as many dangers he says and there was not such need. However now we have no idea from how many dangers God saves us!
Moses Ibrahim
04-03-2008, 07:38 PM
I'm definitely not educated, but I can empirically tell you - that's what life has taught me - that it's at night and on an empty stomach that one can pray better.
Prayer comes first in the larynx, then goes up to the brain and then down to the heart. And then well, theaters come to the eyes. From that point on there's nothing more to be said. It's true that in the beginning, you'll have difficulties. You'll try to pray and at time so you won't be able to, at times you'll have wandering thoughts and temptations, and at other times you won't be able to wake up at night. But you must insist. The Lord, seeing your disposition, will uphold you and deliver you from all temptations. We must not waste the whole night sleeping, because then Satan does whatever he wants with us.
Nightly prayer is of great value. The people sleep and God listens.
We must not pray with too much boldness to God and to the Most Holy Theotokos. We are all sinners and God doesn't hear a sinner's voice.
Despite that I'm a sinner, I kept asking persistently based on "Ask, and it shall be given you, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you" (Matt. 7:7). This is what I understood in my life: What is impossible with men, is possible with God (Luke 18:27).
(Papa Dimitri Gagastathis)
About 3AM I have read (sorry I do not remember where) that it is the time when the evil one has power (because it is the opposite of 3PM when Christ was crucified), that is why it is beneficial to pray at that time. But I am asleep also and can't pray at that time... :(
In today's Gospel reading, Luke 22/23, Jesus' arrest - twice He tells his disciples: "Pray that you will not fall into temptation." And then, when the mob comes to arrest him, He says to them: "....When I was with you daily in the temple, you did not try to seize Me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness."
It doesn't specifically say what time all this happens, maybe it does in the other Gospels, so I can't say if it was around 3am. It was definitely during the hours of the night. But I thought about this thread, when I read the part of "... this is your hour, and the power of darkness."
In Christ,
Mary.
It is interesting this passage from the Gospel.
so I can't say if it was around 3am. I
In Christ,
Mary.
Yes, you are right. It does not matter maybe if have time at 2AM, or 5AM and we fall asleep at 3AM. I think God will accept our offering.
It is worth remembering that "clock time" does not necessarily correspond with "monastery time", so let's not get too tangled up with precision here.
A day is still divided into 24 hours, but the hours of daylight and darkness vary, depending on the season. Monastic time (as was Biblical time) divides the period of darkness and daylight into equal "hours", which rarely correspond to sixty minutes.
Peter S.
05-03-2008, 08:36 PM
In today's Gospel reading, Luke 22/23, Jesus' arrest - twice He tells his disciples: "Pray that you will not fall into temptation." And then, when the mob comes to arrest him, He says to them: "....When I was with you daily in the temple, you did not try to seize Me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness."
In Christ,
Mary.
The material world often points out a greater truth in it that lays in the spiritual world. When Jesus said the power of darkness here I think he thought about the evil powers, and their darkness, and not merely distance from light or absence of light. but still it is a connection between these two. We wont see this connection fully before death and ressurection, but the saints have greater insight in this.
You can "hide" in the dark but this kind of darkness as absence of light can also be a blessing when you dont want to be distracted by what you can see when you pray a.s.o. I think God wanted to teach us something about life when he separated darkness and light. Maybe that Christ is the true Light.
I dont think it is any time that is better to pray at than others. That sounds magic to me, but I have little insight in this
Peter
I dont think it is any time that is better to pray at than others. That sounds magic to me, but I have little insight in this
Peter
No dear Peter, that's not magic. Of course it is wonderful to pray to God at any time possible however there are teachings from the Fathers about night prayer as Moses has supplied above (from Papa Dimitris Gagastathis) and I do not think these Fathers had magic in mind when they specified certain times, but of course these should be followed only with the blessing of one's spiritual father and without pressuring and tasking one's body and soul since that may produce more harm than benefit. Here is something from Elder Paisios:
The three hours after sunset help a lot (having read patristic books before sunset), as well as after midnight until sunrise. For young people it is good for them to sleep one hour after sunset, with less prayer, and to get up after midnight, in order to avoid scandalous sleep of the morning.
Naturally, discernment is required and guidance from their spiritual father, who is a requirement.
Link (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/blessed-father-paisios-guidance-about-the-jesus-prayer.aspx)
Peter S.
05-03-2008, 11:46 PM
You can "hide" in the dark but this kind of darkness as absence of light can also be a blessing when you dont want to be distracted by what you can see when you pray a.s.o.
Peter
I had in mind that in the evening in Church we have littltle light,just in front of the icons of the iconostasis. but a better analogy is that darkness is a blessing because it can remind you of your "blindness".
Maybe it is not magic that some times are better to pray, but Paul teach us to pray without ceasing 1Thess 5.17
Peter
but Paul teach us to pray without ceasing 1Thess 5.17
Peter
:D Do you know what he means? I have read from the Fathers (I think Metropolitan Hierotheos also writes about it) that these words are about when the prayer "Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me the sinner!" descends to the heart and the heart prays unceasingly even when we are asleep.
Paul Cowan
06-03-2008, 03:24 AM
:D Do you know what he means? I have read from the Fathers (I think Metropolitan Hierotheos also writes about it) that these words are about when the prayer "Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me the sinner!" descends to the heart and the heart prays unceasingly even when we are asleep.
When I first started with this prayer as I was overdoing it without guidance, I was waking up with it already on my lips.
Victor Mihailoff
06-03-2008, 06:03 AM
[quote=Nina;60851]:D Do you know what he means? I have read from the Fathers (I think Metropolitan Hierotheos also writes about it) that these words are about when the prayer "Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me the sinner!" descends to the heart and the heart prays unceasingly even when we are asleep.
Dear Servant of Christ Nina:
This is quite true according to a number of the fathers and many books on the prayer of the heart but when the Bible tells us to pray without ceasing it is not only instructing the great ascetic monastics of our faith but also lay Orthodox Christians like us.
We start our day with prayer. As we go through our daily routines and tasks we can contemplate God in almost everything. For example, when we see a thing of beauty, we can not only admire its beauty but also dwell on the greater beauty its Creator must have. When we hear a wise saying we can also think on the wisdom of our Lord God. If we see the power of ocean waves crashing upon rocky shore lines, we can wonder in awe at the greater power of their Creator. When someone shows us kindness and lends a helping hand, we should not only thank them but also thank our loving provident God. We pray before and after meals; we pray before work, study or commencing any task. We pray at the end of our day.
In other words, we can always keep God close to us by including thoughts of Him with other good thoughts. This is also called ceaseless prayer, and it is another way of keeping God in our hearts ceaselessly.
In Christ, Victor
Victor Mihailoff
06-03-2008, 07:11 AM
[quote=Nina;60851]:D Do you know what he means? I have read from the Fathers (I think Metropolitan Hierotheos also writes about it) that these words are about when the prayer "Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me the sinner!" descends to the heart and the heart prays unceasingly even when we are asleep.
Dear Servant of Christ Nina:
I prayed to blessed Xenia of Petersburg just a couple minutes ago to find a passage in The Philokalia Vol. 3 for me to quote regarding what I presented in my last post replying to this post of yours and she showed it to me in the fiest page to which I randomly opened the book. Here it is, and its by St Peter of Damascus:
"... 'Pray without ceasing' (1 Thess. 5 : 17), that is, be mindful of God at all times, in all places, and in every circumstance. For no matter what you do, you should keep in mind the Creator of all things. When you see the light, do not forget Him who gave it to you; when you see the sky, the earth, the sea and all that is in them, marvel at these things and glorify their Creator; when you put on clothing, acknowledge whose gift it is and praise Him who in His providence has given you life. In short, if everything you do becomes for you an occasion for glorifying God, you will be praying unceasingly. And in this way your soul will always rejoice, as St Paul commends (cf. 1 Thess. 5 : 16). For, as St Dorotheos explains, remembrance of God rejoices the soul; and he adduces David as witness: 'I remembered God, and rejoiced'" (cf. Ps. 77 : 3. LXX).
This should be read with my previous post if it gets posted without specific reference to patricity.
Under Christ's will, Victor.
Peter S.
06-03-2008, 09:35 PM
When I first started with this prayer as I was overdoing it without guidance, I was waking up with it already on my lips.
I ve also had that experience. Its a gift from God which I think is happening because he wants us to continue to pray the Jesusprayer with the same eagerness, but I didnt.
Peter
Peter S.
06-03-2008, 10:19 PM
[quote]
Dear Servant of Christ Nina:
This is quite true according to a number of the fathers and many books on the prayer of the heart but when the Bible tells us to pray without ceasing it is not only instructing the great ascetic monastics of our faith but also lay Orthodox Christians like us.
We start our day with prayer. As we go through our daily routines and tasks we can contemplate God in almost everything. For example, when we see a thing of beauty, we can not only admire its beauty but also dwell on the greater beauty its Creator must have. When we hear a wise saying we can also think on the wisdom of our Lord God. If we see the power of ocean waves crashing upon rocky shore lines, we can wonder in awe at the greater power of their Creator. When someone shows us kindness and lends a helping hand, we should not only thank them but also thank our loving provident God. We pray before and after meals; we pray before work, study or commencing any task. We pray at the end of our day.
In other words, we can always keep God close to us by including thoughts of Him with other good thoughts. This is also called ceaseless prayer, and it is another way of keeping God in our hearts ceaselessly.
In Christ, Victor
Yes, our whole life can be a prayer. The lives of the saints are a continious prayer before and after their death. And there are many forms of prayer. I also think Paul thought about the Jesusprayer when he said pray unceasingly.
I ve heard a legend of St. Ignatius who said that he was the child Jesus lifted up in front of his disciples. Ignatius continued to invoke the name of Jesus through his whole life, so when his followers opened up Ignatius heart after his death, they found the name of Jesus ("Iesous"), in golden letters inside it. Its a beautiful story.
Maybe the ulitmate prayer is the Jesusprayer, and this prayer can even lead you to a more intimate relation to God which is also a prayer. (Partaking in the divine energies by grace, is also a form of prayer.)
Peter
Victor Mihailoff
07-03-2008, 02:19 AM
[quote]About 3AM I have read (sorry I do not remember where) that it is the time when the evil one has power (because it is the opposite of 3PM when Christ was crucified), that is why it is beneficial to pray at that time. But I am asleep also and can't pray at that time... :
Dear Servant of Christ Nina:
The following words of St Diadichos of Photiki may be helpful regarding nightime prayer. He explains a distinction in circumstance which indicates whether it is the evil one or our Merciful Lord who is approaching us during such times.
"When our intelect begins to perceive the grace of the Holy Spirit, then Satan, too, importunes the soul with a sense of sweetness to the quiet times of the night, when we fall into a light kind of sleep. If the intellect at that time cleaves fervently to the remembrance of the glorious and holy name of the Lord Jesus and uses it as a weapon against Satan's deception, he gives up this trick and for the future will attack the soul directly and personally. As a result the intellect clearly discerns the deception of the evil one and advances even further in the art of discrimination."
"The experience of true grace comes to us when the body is awake or else on the point of falling asleep, while in fervent remembrance of God we are welded to His love. But the illusion of grace comes to us, as I have said, when we fall into light sleep while our remembrance of God is half-hearted. True grace, since its source is God, gladdens us consciously and impels us towards love with great rapture of soul. The illusion of grace, on the other hand, tends to shake the soul with the winds of deceit; for when the intellect is strong in the remembrance of God, the devil tries to rob it of its experience of spiritual perception by taking advantage of the body's need for sleep. If the intellect at that time is remembering the Lord Jesus attentively, it easily destroys the enemy's seductive sweetness and advances joyfully to the battle with Him, armed not only with grace but also with a second weapon, the confidence gained from its own experience."
In Christ, Victor
"To describe it with the boldest expression, prayer is a conversation with God. Even if we speak with a low voice, even if we whisper without opening the lips, even if we call to Him only from the depths of the heart, our unspoken word always reaches God and God always hears. Sometimes, however, besides speaking, we lift our head and raise our arms to heaven. In this way we are underlining the desire that the spirit has for the spiritual world. We are striving with the word to raise our body above the earth. We are giving wings to the soul for it to reach the good things on high."Clement of Alexandria.
From St. Gregory Palamas (The Homilies Vol. 1; St. Tikhon's Seminary Press pg. 98):
"We know that prayer in and of itself cannot save us, but carrying it out before God can. For when the Lord’s eyes are upon us He sanctifies us, as the sun warms everything upon which it shines."
Peter S.
08-03-2008, 03:28 PM
From St. Gregory Palamas (The Homilies Vol. 1; St. Tikhon's Seminary Press pg. 98):
Yes, we are sanctified by the grace of God. Prayer is a conversation with God.
Peter
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.5 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.