The incarnation of the Son and the fall

[Theofan]

Hello,
I am new here and I apologize in advance if a thread of this nature has already been opened in the past.

I would like to discuss with you whether the incarnation of the Son would've happened had Adam and Eve not sinned against God. I understand that theology cannot delve into the realm of 'what if?" since that would be mere speculation. But I still think this would be an interesting discussion.

What we do know is that 'God became man so that man could become God". I believe most Orthodox theologians and fathers believed that God would've become man even if Adam had not sinned, since the incarnation of the Word would lead to man being one with God.

However, when reading Thomas Aquinas I believe that he said had there not been a Fall from Eden the Son would've not come to Earth. When it comes to the Oriental Orthodox I have no idea on their positions in this issue.


Please feel free to contribute with your thoughts,
Thank You

[Victor Mihailoff]

I would like to discuss with you whether the incarnation of the Son would've happened had Adam and Eve not sinned against God. I understand that theology cannot delve into the realm of 'what if?" since that would be mere speculation. But I still think this would be an interesting discussion.

First, the Son of God created our ancestors Adam & Eve.

Then He gave them only one temporary commandment, they disobeyed it.

Next, He gave them a chance to repent in the Garden of Eden, they failed.

After that, He sent them out of the Garden to suffer so that they may repent and obtain salvation and divinity, while also giving them a conscience.

The descendants of the first couple failed miserably and God saw that only one man, Noah, and his obedient family, obeyed His will. The rest of mankind were hell bound so God mercifully brought upon the earth the Great Flood, for had those unrepentant sinners remained, they would have sunk lower in depravity and brought upon themselves greater eternal suffering in hell.

Then God rose up Moses to lead the children of Israel. He gave Moses ten commandments which would guide the people who obeyed them to salvation. But even while waiting for the commandments, the people grew impatient and sinned greatly.


However, when reading Thomas Aquinas I believe that he said had there not been a Fall from Eden the Son would've not come to Earth. When it comes to the Oriental Orthodox I have no idea on their positions in this issue.

Finally, the last resort was that the Son of God became man as well as God, and suffered for the sins of His creatures, mankind, because through the sin of one man did death come into the world, and through one man could death be conquered by death. No man in the world could fulfill this need and sacrifice for mankind, so the Son of God became man and did sacrifice Himself on our behalf because He so loved His Creatures, mankind.

Having said that, God also said that He would dwell with man and be their God, and they would be His people. But did He say this because He would become man in any case to dwell with man, after all He did create Adam in His own image which, would mean as a spirit only, had He not ever become man.

Or did He say this because as God He knows all things and foresaw that He would need to become man to die for our sins on the cross? After all, He caused the Old Testament to be written and it did foretell in written words of His incarnation and death on the cross. But perhaps it is both, since time was only created for life on earth before the general resurrection and judgement, and in heaven, past, present and future can be seen at once as St John the theologian did see it. So then it would be that all of His will was to be fulfilled and He would both become man to save man and become man to dwell with His greatest creation as man and God, thus raising man to Godhood.



Please feel free to contribute with your thoughts,
Thank You

In Christ, Victor