Orthodox mystical traditions

[Troy Duker]

Besides hesychasm, are there any other mystical traditions within the Orthodox faith? In the Roman Church there are the Franciscans, Dominicans, Passionist, Marians, etc. I don't mean religious orders, but mystical traditions and spiritualities.

[Antonios]

I think Christian tradition has demonstrated that the most pure form of prayer leads to inner stillness and ultimately to hesychia and watchful waiting before the throne of God. This is a life offered back to Him in thanksgiving, a gift to one day partake in the joy of the Eighth Day, when Love will once and for all time prove He never fails, and the saints all enter the Kingdom of God!

[Victor Mihailoff]

Besides hesychasm, are there any other mystical traditions within the Orthodox faith? In the Roman Church there are the Franciscans, Dominicans, Passionist, Marians, etc. I don't mean religious orders, but mystical traditions and spiritualities.

Forgive me for not clearly understanding your question. You ask about mystical tradition but give Roman Catholic monastic orders as examples, then you state that you don't mean religious orders.

I'll take a stab in the dark just to start this thred off and you can state if it is on target or then find a way to clarify precisely what you are after. In Orthodox monasticism there are basically three ways of life and some variations within types.

From "The Philokalia - The Complete Text - Vol. 3"
""He speaks of the three main types of monasticism - 'bodily obedience' in a fully organised community, the hermit life, and the intermediate or semi-eremitic path, with two or three monks pursuing a 'life of silence' together in a kellion - and, following St John Klimakos, he commends above all the third of these forms, terming it the 'royal way'."

I might add to the above one variation to cenobitic (fully organised community) monastic form and that is the idiorythmic manastery, whereby the monks leave the monastery to work for income but return each afternoon or evening for meals together in their trapeza and common prayer in their chapel. They sleep in the monastery but work outside to support their community. Any elderly monks may remain inside and pray for their brethren (brothers in christ).

I hope that works as an ice breaker at least. In the third type of monasticism mentioned, where two or three monks pursue a life of silence, the word silence has a different meaning in Orthodox monasticism than it does in Roman Catholic monasticism (correct me if I am wrong here).

In Roman Catholic monasticism, there are silent orders whereby monastics never speak to anyone other than the abbot/abbess or their father confessor and/or spiritual father. In Orthodox monasticism silence means: stillness, hesychia, from which are derived the words hesychasm and hesychast, used to denote the whole spititual tradition represented in the Philokalia as well as the person who pursues the spiritual path it deliniates. A state of inner tranquillity or mental quietude and concentration which arises in conjunction with, and is deepened by, the practice of pure prayer and the guarding of heart and intellect. Not simply silence, but an attitude of listening to God and of openess towards Him. (ibid)

There are some ethnically Orthodox differences in tradition. For example Russians have a namesake saint they pray to. This is the saint they were named after at baptism. The Serbians have a family saint called Slava (meaning glory in Russian and I guess the same is so in Serbian) to whom they pray. Neither tradition is wrong and neither takes away from their Orthodoxy. I knew a Russian Orthodox priest who said to me in an email that blessed Xenia of Petersburg was a saint that helped his entire family on numerous occassions. His whole family pray to her, so they in effect, have a slava as Serbians do.

note: In Orthodoxy, a monastic hermit is also known as an anchorite; a recluse: cave dweller; and desert dweller. Though the last can cause confussion because there were cenobitic communities, even enormous ones, dwelling in deserts. Also, in the old books on monastic fathers, the word "desert" then meant a deserted place, not commonly inhabited by people. It did not have to contain cacti or oasises. One prominent example of this is the enormous monastic desert city of Saint Pachomious the Great.

May Christ be the way for all of us, Victor

[Victor Mihailoff]

Besides hesychasm, are there any other mystical traditions within the Orthodox faith? In the Roman Church there are the Franciscans, Dominicans, Passionist, Marians, etc. I don't mean religious orders, but mystical traditions and spiritualities.

You might want to read a little on stylites and studites.

In Christ, Victor

[Troy Duker]

Forgive me for not clearly understanding your question. You ask about mystical tradition but give Roman Catholic (http://monachos.net/library/Orthodox_Dictionary#Catholic) monastic orders as examples, then you state that you don't mean religious orders. When I mentioned those orders I meant the specific spirituality that they each espouse.

[Troy Duker]

I guess what I mean to say is that are there any other ways of descending into the heart, reaching this hesychia within the Orthodox tradition besides the most popular, the Jesus Prayer? Are their any other methods used by the Church fathers?

[Victor Mihailoff]

[quote=Troy Duker;61012]I guess what I mean to say is that are there any other ways of descending into the heart, reaching this hesychia within the Orthodox tradition besides the most popular, the Jesus Prayer? Are their any other methods used by the Church fathers?

Yes. There's contemplation upon the many manifestations of God's providence, power, mercy and love. Upon also His omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence.

During martyrdom too. Also St Seraphim of Sarov spoke of our true purpose as being for the acquisition of the Holy Spirit. He said that here are many means to do this. For some it is heartfelt prayer; for others it is generous almsgiving; for others it is fasting; again it can be service in church, psalmody, reading lives of saints and the teachings of them and others. He said that if one activity brings to a person the Holy Spirit more abundantly than others, then that should be practiced the most. A person can often sense the Holy Spirit increasing within, provided they have cleaned out the dust and cobwebs first. It is sometimes felt during and immediately after Holy Communion, especially during Great Lent or after very heartfelt and even tearful confession.

In Christ, Victor

[Max Percy]

Besides hesychasm, are there any other mystical traditions within the Orthodox faith? In the Roman Church there are the Franciscans, Dominicans, Passionist, Marians, etc. I don't mean religious orders, but mystical traditions and spiritualities.

I would suggest marriage as one

[M.C. Steenberg]

Above, Troy wrote:


I guess what I mean to say is that are there any other ways of descending into the heart, reaching this hesychia within the Orthodox tradition besides the most popular, the Jesus Prayer? Are their any other methods used by the Church fathers?

There are a whole host of traditions within the fray of largely the monastic movements in Orthodoxy, primarily because monasticism is at the heart of the ascetical endeavour that embraces the whole Church. Oftentimes these overlap, and in most monastic contexts, there is a very intentional 'blend' of many, but in general one finds the following kinds of focus in the monastic writings over history:

Liturgical transformation - coming to a fuller life of an in the human heart through entering fully into the liturgicla mysteries of the Church, the primary 'means' of which is full attendance at a set cycle of liturgical services daily
Physical labour - entering into a purer control of the passions and purification of the heart through submitting the body to physical labour. This is the 'spiritual tradition' most often handed to novices, and in its fullest / most extreme forms, rather dominates all others
Hesychastic stillness - entering into contemplation in the heart by stilling the mind of passionate thoughts. While this has become the most popular in books and 'street discussions', it is traditionally a type of spirituality developed at higher levels of ascetical struggle.
Obedience - Developing the communion of the heart in God through submission of the will through obedience.

[Troy Duker]

Thanks for that Steenberg!

[Paul Cowan]

Thanks for that Steenberg!

I doubt he will say anything, but Mr. Steenberg or Doctor Steenberg or Father Deacon Matthew might be more appropriate salutations for him.

With respect,

Paul

[Troy Duker]

Is it really that serious?

[Paul Cowan]

Is it really that serious?

Is what that serious? Respect and courtesy for others? yes.

[M.C. Steenberg]

I rather suspect this Steenberg fellow isn't terribly bothered. :) Though well done to Paul for remaining on politeness patrol. All to be encouraged!

[Troy Duker]

Mr. Steenberg and Mr. Cowan, forgive me for my arrogance.

[Paul Cowan]

Mr. Steenberg and Mr. Cowan, forgive me for my arrogance.

No, Troy. Please forgive me. I was rather in a bad mood when I wrote it and far be it for me to speak for someone else especially Fr. Dcn. who is more than able to stand up for himself. Who am I to be the politness police?

Humbly,
Paul

[M.C. Steenberg]

From the above, two comments:


I would suggest marriage as one


I guess what I mean to say is that are there any other ways of descending into the heart, reaching this hesychia within the Orthodox tradition besides the most popular, the Jesus Prayer? Are their any other methods used by the Church fathers?

I would be grateful to hear further on this. Marriage is indeed part of the mystikos bios of the Christian way, and the ascetical nature of it is not often enough pondered in this way.

There could be some interesting discussion here.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Paul Cowan]

Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
23 And Adam said:
“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.


...and they shall become one flesh. How hard it is for an individual to pray and overcome passions. "When two or more pray together, there I shall be in their midst" (paraphrasing). Before my wife and I are intimate, it started on our first night on our honeymoon, we first pray. We plead with God to be with us, guide us and guard us and to protect us during our time together.

This joint prayer is much deeper than individual prayer of the heart as it involves both our hearts pleading to God in unison for asking of what we need.


James 4:1 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet[a] you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

Intimacy is not "pleasures of the flesh". Yes there is pleasure there, but it is not soul destroying pleasure as described in the scripture. Our joint prayer is one of reconciliation of our marriage to God and asking for His protection from any demonic influences while we are together. Very different.

Prayer of the heart(s).

Paul

[Ken McRae]

I guess what I mean to say is that are there any other ways of descending into the heart, reaching this hesychia within the Orthodox tradition besides the most popular, the Jesus Prayer? Are their any other methods used by the Church fathers?

In a theological paper entitled, 'the Patristic Heritage and Modernity' (http://westernorthodox.blogspot.com/2008/03/how-orthodox-saints-assessed-western.html), Bp. Hilarion Alfeyev (of the MP) observes that many Orthodox Christians "confuse Orthodoxy with Byzantinism;" in trying, for example, to limit the scope of Orthodox spirituality, to the Byzantine Hesychastic model. It would appear that for many, many Orthodox Christians, Byzantinism, and specifically Byzantine Hesychasm, is virtually the only legitimate expression or path of Orthodox spirituality. Nevertheless, Bp. Hilarion attempts to refute that viewpoint in the following lengthy passage:

"The opinion of St Ignatius Brianchaninov that all works by Catholic mystics after the Great Schism have been written in a state of spiritual “drunkenness” and delusion is well known. Since Bishop Ignatius has been canonized, some value his opinion as “patristic”. Yet we also know a different approach by other — equally canonized — church writers with a somewhat less cautious and categorical attitude towards Catholic spirituality. [31] Some Orthodox Fathers are known for the direct influence Catholic spirituality exercised upon them. St Dimitri of Rostov was under this influence for his entire life: his homilies as well as other works, including the Reading Compendium of Saint’s lives, based primarily on Latin sources, [32] have a distinctly “Westernizing” character; St Dimitri’s library held books by Bonaventure, Thomas a Kempis, Peter Canisius and other Catholic authors, and in his spirituality such elements as the devotion of the passions of Christ, the five wounds of Christ and the heart of Christ may be traced.[33] The influence of Catholic spirituality on St Tikhon of Zadonsk [34] can equally be sensed. How can such different approaches towards Catholic spirituality and mysticism between St Ignatius on the one side, and St Dimitri of Rostov and St Tikhon of Zadonsk on the other, be explained?"

Orthodox Blogger Ben Johnson makes the following observation, regarding the "Western" Orthodox spirituality of St. Dimitri of Rostov:

"One could note, St. Dimitri of Rostov also prayed the Rosary, said a Hail Mary at every hour, and "had a great devotion to the 'Joys and Sorrows' of the Most Holy Virgin Mary." (This last, some note, was long included in ROCOR's Jordanville Prayer Book as "The Tale of the Five Prayers.") Many Orthodox of both rites are familiar with his Menologion (lives of the saints).

"Without laying down any clear-cut (and overly simplistic) course of action, Bp. HILARION's work notes that 'the universal Orthodox tradition is wider than Byzantinism.' His more balanced view of the post-Schism West should serve as a corrective to those who confuse Orthodoxy with Byzantinism (whether they consider themselves Eastern or Western Rite) and an eloquent rejoinder to those who accuse the Russian Orthodox Church of 'an inability to face the challenges of the modern world'."

Concerning the idea that Orthodox spirituality is much wider than Byzantine Hesychasm, it would seem, from the following observations of Fr. George Florovsky, that St. Tikhon of Zadonsk is the perfect exemplar of that reality:

From Fr. George Florovsky, on the Ways of Russian Theology (http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/florovsky_ways_chap4.html):-

On the Orthodox Spirituality of St. Tikhon of Zandonsk:-

The image of St. Tikhon Zadonskii (1724-1782) 148 stands out in bold relief against the background of the eighteenth century. His personality contains many unusual and unexpected traits. In spiritual temperament Tikhon entirely belonged to the new post-Petrine epoch. He studied and then taught in the Latin schools (in Novgorod and Tver'). In addition to the church fathers, he read and loved modern western writers, and particularly enjoyed "reading and rereading Arndt." That his chief work, On True Christianity [Ob istinnom khristianstve] bears the same title as Arndt's book is scarcely an accident. As Evgenii Bolkhovitinov long ago pointed out, another of Tikhon's books, A Spiritual Treasury Gathered from the World [Sokrovishche dukhovnoe ot mira sobiraemoe], is very similar in content to that of a Latin pamphlet by Joseph Hall. 149 Tikhon's language is suffused by the new age. Frequent Latinisms occur in turns of phrase which, however, increase his range and strengthen his expressiveness. He had a great gift for words-he was artistic and simple at the same time. His writing is always surprisingly limpid. This limpidity is his most unexpected quality. His grace and lucidity, his freedom -and not merely freedom from the world but also in the world - is the most striking quality in St. Tikhon's personality. He has the easy grace of a pilgrim or traveler neither deflected nor restrained by this world. "Every living being on earth is a wayfarer." However, this conquering grace was achieved through painful trial and ascetic effort. The dark waves of deep weariness and despair are quite clearly visible in Tikhon's limpid spirit as they rush over him. "Constitutionally he was a hypochondriac and somewhat choleric," writes Tikhon's "cellsman" (monk servant). His peculiar subjective despair, his special temptation to melancholy as a form of uncustomary disclosure of the soul, is wholly unique in Russian asceticism and more readily suggestive of the Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross. 150 At times Tikhon would fall into a helpless torpor, confinement, and immobility, when everything around him was dark, empty, and unresponsive. Sometimes he could not compel himself to leave his cell; at other times he seemingly tried to escape physically from despair by moving about. Tikhon's whole spirit had been overwhelmed in this ordeal, yet that trial left no traces or scars. The original luminosity of his soul was only purified in his personal progress.

His was not merely a personal asceticism, for St. Tikhon's temptations were not just a stage in his personal progress. He continued to be a pastor and a teacher in his monastic retreat. Through his sensitivity and suffering he remained in the world. He wrote for this world and bore witness of the Savior before a perishing world, which does not seek salvation: an apostolic response to the senselessness of a free-thinking age. Tikhon's encounter was the first encounter with the new Russian atheism (for example, the well-known episode of the Voltarian landowner who struck Tikhon on the cheek). 151 Dostoevskii cleverly detected this phenomenon when he sought to counterpose Tikhon to Russian nihilism, thereby disclosing the problematics of faith and atheism. Tikhon had still another characteristic trait. He wrote (or more often dictated) with inspiration, under the influence of the Holy Spirit. His "cellsman" recounts this practice.

As I heard it from my own lips, but also as I observed myself, whenever I took dictation from him, the words poured from his mouth so rapidly that I scarcely succeeded in writing them down. And when the Holy Spirit became less active in him and he became lost in thought or began thinking of extraneous things, he would send me away to my cell; while he, kneeling, or at times prostrating himself in the form of a cross, would pray with tears that God should send him the All-Activating One. Summoning me once again, he would begin to speak so torrentially that at times I failed to follow him with my pen.

St. Tikhon constantly read the Scriptures and at one time contemplated making a translation of the New Testament from Greek "into the modern style." He considered useful a new translation of the Psalter from Hebrew. His favorites among the church fathers were Macarius of Egypt, St. John Chrysostom, and St. Augustine.

Tikhon's writings contain all the borrowed ideas about redemptive "satisfaction," the distinction between form and substance in the sacraments, and so on. 152 Such is his tribute to the schools and to the age. Far more important is the fact that several western features are expressed in his experience. Above all this means his unremitting concentration on the memory and contemplation of Christ's sufferings. He saw Christ "covered with wounds, lacerated, tortured, and bloody," and he urged the contemplation of His suffering. "He had a great love for the Savior's sufferings, and not only as he beheld them in his mind, for he had portrayed in picture nearly all of His holy passions." (The pictures were painted on canvass.) Tikhon preserved a peculiar insistence and a certain impressionism when speaking of the Humiliation and the Passion of Christ. Moreover, a renovated Byzantine contemplative life is powerfully present in his experience, in his radiant visions, illuminations by the light of Tabor, pathos of the Transfiguration, and premonitions of Resurrection spring.

The resurrection of the dead is a constantly recurring thought for Tikhon and is embodied in the image of spring. "Spring is the image and sign of the resurrection of the dead." This will be the eternal spring of the God-created world. "Let faith guide your mind from this sensible spring to that sublime and longed for spring which the most gracious God has promised in His Holy Scripture, when the bodies of the faithful who have died since the beginning of the world, germinating from the earth like seeds by the power of God, shall arise and assume a new and exquisite form, shall be clothed in the garment of immortality, shall receive the crown of blessedness from the hand of the Lord." This will be no idyll of apokatastasis. On the contrary, nature stained by sin will be condemned even more for its aridity and tarnish and will acquire a still more niggardly appearance. Eternity is not the same for all: there is an eternity of bliss and an eternity of weeping. Tikhon had these visions of Tabor frequently, sometimes daily. The heavens would be torn asunder and would burn with unendurable radiance. Occasionally he even saw this light in his cell and his heart would rejoice in such contemplations.

St. Tikhon combined an intense concentration of the spirit with an exceptional capacity for tenderness and love. He spoke of love of thy neighbor, of social justice and charity no less resolutely than did St. John Chrysostom. St. Tikhon was an important writer. Grace and plasticity of images adorn his books. His On True Christianity in particular has historical significance. The book is less a dogmatic system than a book of mystical ethics or ascetics, yet it marks the first attempt at a living theology; the first attempt at a theology based on experience, in contrast and as a counterweight to scholastic erudition, which lacks any such experience.

Tikhon Zadonskii and the elder Paisii Velichkovskii (1722- 1794) 153 had little in common. As spiritual types, they little resemble one another. [Quote from Fr. Florovsky Ends Here.]

Now, lest there be some reading this who are tempted to depise St. Tikhon on this account, let it be known that St. Theophan the Recluse regarded him very highly; and it is even said that St. Tikhon's spiritual writings were his favorite, serving as a model for his own, in many ways. That alone makes me personally wish I owned his Complete Works; and I'm nearly ready to learn his language just to be able to read the originals, and perhaps translate some. His vast popularity as a spiritual guide and author cannot be overstated, in my opinion. His publication history speaks for itself. According to Dr. Bolshakoff, the last volume of his five volume set of collected writings, was reprinted 42 times; and the Jordanville edition of his 'Journey to Heaven,' (a 19th century posthumous selection of his 'Works') was supposedly reprinted 48 times, during the 19th century, in Russian alone!

Not many spiritual authors ever achieve that immense degree of popularity without an insatiable demand for his work among the laity. And it seems likely to me, also, that a popularity of that degree, among the laity, might be an indicator that it filled a gap, and presented an "alternative" (though fully Orthodox) spiritual model to those who aren't necessarily called to walk the Byzantine road of Hesychasm.

However, concerning St. Tikhon's teaching on spirituality and prayer, Dr. Bolshakoff appears to have taken 'the fork in the road', concerning this question, by adopting an opposite stance; claiming for him a greater affinity with Protestant spirituality than with Catholic spirituality:

"St. Tikhon was quite alien to post-Tridentine Catholicism which so influenced St. Demetrius of Rostov. The Hesychast spirituality of St. Nilus of Sora is equally absent from his works. St. Tikhon's spirituality may be best termed 'evangelical.' It is exclusively based on the Scriptures. References to the Fathers and mystics are rare." (Russian Mystics, p. 69) And in another place, Dr. Bolshakoff, "Although St. Tikhon does not mention the Prayer of Jesus, his doctrine on prayer is akin to hesychasm. A prayer without the attention of heart and mind is nothing, whether it is said vocally or mentally. etc. etc."

So, make what we may of the points of divergence between Bp. Hilarion, Fr. Florovsky, and Dr. Bolshakoff, there is no denying their agreement on the single fact that St. Tikhon was not a "Hesychast," strictly speaking; at least not according to any strict kind of "Palamite" or "Paisiian" formation. The two were "akin" to each other, which implies an obvious difference; such as the absence of any reference to the Jesus Prayer. Yet, there is little doubt but that he lived a "transfigured" life, and had a perfect knowledge of God, achieved through the labor of unceasing prayer. Thus, the conclusion of this is that Orthodox spirituality has more than a single expression or form; perhaps even a few.

01) The Life of St. Tikhon of Zadonsk (http://books.google.ca/books?id=rjHQcSJsRQ0C&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=the+writings+of+st+tikhon+of+zadonsk&source=web&ots=0ODimJ4I_N&sig=vuQFEGTc_BrvznKEDr5Du2VXSvQ&hl=en#PPP1,M1)

02) St. Tikhon's Spiritual Treasury (http://www.roca.org/OA/6/6e.htm)

03) Journey to Heaven - Pt. 1-2 (http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/tikhon_zadonsk_1.htm)

04) Journey to Heaven - Part 3 (http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/tikhon_zadonsk_2.htm)

05) The Vine and Its Branches (http://www.serfes.org/spiritual/june2000.htm)

06) Christ's Self-Emptying Love (http://www.incommunion.org/articles/older-issues/models-of-self-emptying-love)

07) St. Tikhon on Christ's Passion (http://westernorthodox.blogspot.com/2008/04/brief-post-on-st-tikhon-of-zadonsk-on.html)

08) The Duties of Parents and Children (http://fr-d-serfes.org/orthodox/duties.htm)

09) The Struggle Between the Flesh and Spirit (http://www.orthodox.net/articles/flesh-spirit.html)

[Troy Duker]

Thank you for that very interesting reply to my question. I was really captivated by St. Tikhon of Zadonsk, of whom I know very little.

[Andreas Moran]

A deep and loving acceptance of and thankfulness for everything that happens in life is a way. 'Thy will be done'; 'thanks be to God for all things' - to pray thus and really mean it even in the face of disease, injustice and persecution attracts great grace. This can be seen in people dying from cancer. It is evident in the martyrs from the Roman arenas to the Russian gulags.

[Vasiliki D.]

Yes, there is a very well kept secret within Orthodoxy that is a mystical [Note: I use mystical unexplainable/strange as opposed to a liturgical mystical sence] tradition but it falls within the category of "Hesychasm". I am not sure how to describe this since many Orthodox from the Western world will not know this, will want to intellectualise it [to death] and ask me to provide evidence of this existance [which is beyond my capabilities].

The existance of the "aorati" hermits on Mount Athos; they are completely naked but are covered by the Grace of God. They are seven of them and their location is unknown since God permits their existance to be invisible even if you are standing right next to them. The tradition is that there continual prayers hold the entire mountain together. When it is time for one to sleep in the Lord, the seven appear to a hermit/monk from Mount Athos who is to take the place of the one who is to pass on.

I need to locate the book and translate this and improve the accuracy/details of the story ... this is not classified a "myth" by the monks of Athos but it is true and there are stories of having witnessed the Seven ....

[Vasiliki D.]

The next Mystical Traditions relates to Aghia Sophia in Constantinople - every Greek is familiar with this story but I am not sure if non-Greeks know of this tradition.

With the Fall of Constantinople, holds a story carried on through the generations of all Greek Orthodox ... it holds that during the siege of the city a great mass was being held in Aghia Sophia ... just before the Communion, the Ottoman army entered into the church on their horses and began to slaughter all the Christians in the church!

The priest being afraid that the Holy Communion would be spilled saught to hide from the slaughter by leaving from the side of the Church ... the wall to the right of the church opened up for the priest and closed behind him.

The tradition is that the priest will return to finish the liturgy when it is time for Aghia Sophia to be returned to the Christian world ...

To this very day, you can see this door in the church. I know other mystical traditions but I dont want to exhaust this forum because of my poor writing style.

[Jonathan Michael]

I know the Hagia Sophia one. The fall of Constantinople is part of the shared history of all Orthodox, and I wish all remembered it.

[David R.]

Great contributions, Vasiliki!

What about the situation where an elder reposes and passes on his grace to a disciple?

[Vasiliki D.]

Great contributions, Vasiliki!

What about the situation where an elder reposes and passes on his grace to a disciple?

There is no such thing as "passing on your grace" ... this is a misconception. Every person (regardless of who they know) has to individually work hard at their salvation and IF God wills it he passes on his Grace - it comes from above.

However, what I think you are confusing yourself with is that the PRAYERS of the Elders (who have passed on) continue even after death, for their disciples ... it is the intercessory prayers of the Elders which HELP their disciples ... this is why Orthodox pray to Saints because we do not "acquire" a grace from the Saint - we have trust that since they are closer to God and purer than us their prayers are more likely to be heard by God and in His Mercy and in His compassion for his beloved Saints, He might grant us the unworthy what we ask for.

Every Saint is an example of what you ask :-) More specifically, recently, we have an Elder who passed away and is a Saint called Saint Symeon the Arvanitis (Greece). He has two surviving disciples; one is at the Monastery in Pentelis and the other is not ... both "appear" to have gifts from above but both say the same thing ... when a pilgrim visits them, they pray for Saint Symeon's intercessions and if any miracles occur ..it is not because of them but because of the prayers of the Elder .. now, i wonder if his story is available in English? I am not sure .. I have read his story and visited the monastery and I have met both the disciples ... and could elaborate but perhaps it is the content of another thread ...

[Jonathan Michael]

About the prayers of wise elders, I am reminded of these words of St. Seraphim of Sarov before his own repose:


"When I am dead, come to me at my grave, and the more often the better. Whatever is in your soul, whatever may have happened to you, come to me as when I was alive and kneeling on the ground, cast all your bitterness upon my grave. Tell me everything and I shall listen to you, and all the bitterness will fly away from you. And as you spoke to me when I was alive, do so now. For I am living and I shall be for ever."

A more direct instance of a Saint "passing on" something after his repose is in the example of St. Jonah of Hankou (http://www.orthodox.cn/saints/jonahpokrovsky/lifestjona_en.htm) (in Nothern China). At the hour of Bishop Jonah's death, he appeared to a 10 year old boy who had inflammation of his joints and said "Here... Take my legs, they are not needed by me any more, and yours – give to me". The boy woke up healed. The late Nikolai Kiklovich, clergyman from the Diocese of Harbin and Manchuria wrote about cured boy:

"With death this love and feeling of respect for him did not stop, and on the contrary they began to love and esteem him even more, but not as the ordinary mortal person but as God’s Saint; that was especially affected after healing by Vladika of sick adolescent Nikolai to whom the medicine could not help and left him to his own devices ( the boy was initially treated by doctor V.V. Lyapustin,who treated the Bishop and then transferred the boy’s care to a midwife Belov – deacon S.G.). And at that time when human frailty appeared powerless to help the suffering teenager, and his family has fallen in despair for the future of this adolescent - then God’s might came to aid the sufferer by the intercession of newly departed Bishop Jonah. A month ago, blossoming man of 27 Nikolai, who was healed in the night and hour of Bishop Jonah’s death, now married with two teenage daughters, has a house and manages his household, has recounted in detail in his apartment, to the writer of this narrative, about his healing. After wonderful vision of just departed Bishop Jonah, he immediately woke up, has risen at night absolutely healthy, threw away his crutches and started during midnight time to pace his room"
(Priest N. Kiklovich, "19th anniversary of memory of Right Reverend Jonah, Bishop of Hankou" , Heavenly Bread (№ 11-12, year 1944), pages 29-30).

[Robert Hegwood]

What does "aorati" mean?

[Vasiliki D.]

What does "aorati" mean?

Ïnvisible ... but needs to be in context.

[Ken McRae]

There is no such thing as "passing on your grace" ... this is a misconception.

In all due respect, it has been done before, according to 2 Kings, chapter 2, which tells us a remarkable story, highly pertinent to the question at hand:-

1: And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

2: And Elijah said unto Elisha, Tarry here, I pray thee; for the LORD hath sent me to Bethel. And Elisha said unto him, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they went down to Bethel.

3: And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he said, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.

4: And Elijah said unto him, Elisha, tarry here, I pray thee; for the LORD hath sent me to Jericho. And he said, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they came to Jericho.

5: And the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he answered, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.

6: And Elijah said unto him, Tarry, I pray thee, here; for the LORD hath sent me to Jordan. And he said, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. And they two went on.

7: And fifty men of the sons of the prophets went, and stood to view afar off: and they two stood by Jordan.

8: And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground.

9: And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

10: And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.

11: And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

12: And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.

13: He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;

14: And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over.

15: And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.

[Herman Blaydoe]

There is also the case of Genesis 27:1-35, where Jacob more or less steals Esau's blessing from their father Isaac. This appears to be a very special thing that "passes" from Isaac to Jacob, and cannot be given afterwards to Esau. Might this blessing of Isaac and grace of Elijah be related?

Herman

[Father David Moser]

I think that this blessing found in the O.T. is something different that what we find in the N.T. Church. The prophetic blessing was not an indwelling of the Holy Spirit for the renewing of the person, such as we experience post Pentecost, but rather it was an "overshadowing" of the Holy Spirit upon a person who then was used as the "voice of God" to the people. Some prophets were more heavily "overshadowed" than others and hence, Elisha, the disciple of Elijah, did not wish to have only a small blessing, but his love for God was so great that he wanted the same blessing as had been given to Elijah. This desire was granted to him in the passing of the cloak at Elijah's assumption. In the post Pentecost Church, we experience the Holy Spirit in a much different way. We are not "overshadowed" as were the prophets of old, when the Spirit of God came upon them and then withdrew, but rather the Holy Spirit comes and dwells within us, working in our being to transform us into the image and likeness of Christ our God. This is a different thing. Thus a elder cannot "pass on" the mantle of blessing (as with the OT prophets) but rather must work to teach his disciples how to acquire the Holy Spirit (to use the terminology of St Seraphim) and to crucify the self more completely that Christ might live more fully in us.

The Forerunner and Baptist John is considered to be the last and greatest of the prophets of the Old Testament. He himself attests to the fact that the incarnation marks a change in how God works in us by saying of Christ. "He must increase while I must decrease" - meaning not only their earthly ministries, but also prophetically speaking of the work of God in us. His way - the governance of the Law, the overshadowing of the Spirit of God in the Prophets, the whole life of the O.T. Hebrews - must decrease and replaced by the new life of Christ - the transformational indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the path of self denial, of the cross and of following Christ.

As for the blessing of fathers to their sons (as with Isaac to Jacob and Esau) this was a passing on of the inheritance of God and in this case the privilege of being "the chosen people" Isaac passed on his "heritage" as the patriarch of the chosen people to his son, Jacob as it turned out. But there was no special "indwelling" or even "overshadowing" passed on but rather the destiny of the people of God. Neither Esau nor Jacob were sinless in this (Esau was heedless and negligent of God's blessing and Jacob was a liar - but not a thief as Esau had already ceded his blessing through negligence). In the N.T. the "blessing" of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is all about sinlessness and thus again we have the indication that this is a different thing.

Fr David Moser

[David R.]

I found this quote which relates to my description above:

"Elder Isaac who lived with Elder Paisios was a charismatic elder who had spiritual perspicacity which had been passed to him by Elder Paisios."

It seems to me that Fr. Paisios passed on a "charism" to his disciple.

[Vasiliki D.]

I found this quote which relates to my description above:

"Elder Isaac who lived with Elder Paisios was a charismatic elder who had spiritual perspicacity which had been passed to him by Elder Paisios."

It seems to me that Fr. Paisios passed on a "charism" to his disciple.

Who is the author of this book? Many books that are written are not always accurate in their theological expression ... many elders of Mount Athos have pointed this out about the books. We should read them with caution because much of what the Elders said have been taken out of context (the Chinese whispers reason) - one little word can change the essence of what an Elder has said ..it would be worthwhile advising us who the author is.

Father David Moser has accurately explained the approach of "passing on the charisma" from teacher to disciple ..
:)

[David R.]

Who is the author of this book?

"Elder Isaac is the author of the book "The Life of Elder Paisios of Mount Athos."

Since we receive this material translated from the original Greek to English, it may not always be accurate.

[Vasiliki D.]

Who is the author of this book?

"Elder Isaac is the author of the book "The Life of Elder Paisios of Mount Athos."

Since we receive this material translated from the original Greek to English, it may not always be accurate.

Then again it might be .. this is problematic for me since I understood that "Grace" doesnt transmit like you had a baton from one person to another but Grace is given by God to that person who is a "champion" in Orthodoxy ... that is they work hard to acquire grace and some do not even reach the level of deification - theosis, it is but few. So, to be able to have foresight and knowledge of the Uncreated Light is something you must work on ... however, perhaps I have understood it wrong.

I am thinking back to some books I have read and there have been instances where an Elder who participated in the Uncreated Light has prayed to God to ask that a disciple experiences the Uncreated light with them. The purpose being to give them a "taste" of it so that they then long for it so much that they work harder knowing what the reward is ... but this has always been whilest they were alive and not after they passed on ...

[David R.]

Thank you, Vasiliki!

Hope to hear more about the "aorati" hermits on Mount Athos. I have seen the number as seven, but also twelve.

[Ken McRae]

I am thinking back to some books I have read and there have been instances where an Elder who participated in the Uncreated Light has prayed to God to ask that a disciple experiences the Uncreated light with them.

Sounds like St. Seraphim and his disciple, Motovilov.

[David R.]

"A disciple who has been completely obedient to his elder partakes in his elder's grace both before and especially after his elder's death."

-Monastic Wisdom: The Letters of Elder Joseph the Hesychast, footnote on page 92

[Vasiliki D.]

"A disciple who has been completely obedient to his elder partakes in his elder's grace both before and especially after his elder's death."

-Monastic Wisdom: The Letters of Elder Joseph the Hesychast, footnote on page 92

Interesting, in essence their is the premise that they MUST be COMPLETELY obedient to the Elder ... very very interesting ... and the second being that they PARTAKE not TAKE. There must be a difference between partaking and taking ... which goes back to the original question can an Elder pass on his grace ... in essence, it is still NO. They only share in the experience not have it completely??

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear friends,

I find disconcerting the blanket assertion that grace is not 'passed on' from a teacher/elder to a disciple; not because some of the comments made do not have value (they do), but because this assumes a rather superficial nature to passing on, to inheritance.

It is an exceedingly well-attested part of the spiritual tradition that the grace of the elder, the grace of the saint, is passed on to disciples who are able to receive it. This is not a magical handing over of some allottment; it does not mean that the disciple has the full set of 'power' that the elder once had -- as if the elder's grace was in the first place some set of things and powers.

Grace is a communion of man in God, and the true teacher enjoins his disciple into that very communion. This grace is the intercommunion of his prayer, the disciple's obedience, and the overwhelming compassion of God.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Robert Hegwood]

Fire communicates fire...but only to where it finds fuel.

[Father Serafim]

It is my understanding that grace is not accumulative. If it is 'passed on' to a disciple it is because God so wills it. Accordingly grace can be withdrawn and even the memory of it can be erased by God. Acquiring the spirit or grace of one's elder is not like learning a foreign language. We can learn a language and forget it if we do not use it. But deep in our mental archives, the language remains. This is not so with grace. This is what I have come to understand over the years. I apologize for the sophistry here. I find it difficult to put into words but perhaps someone else can enlighten us?

[Vasiliki D.]

It is my understanding that grace is not accumulative. If it is 'passed on' to a disciple it is because God so wills it. Accordingly grace can be withdrawn and even the memory of it can be erased by God. Acquiring the spirit or grace of one's elder is not like learning a foreign language. We can learn a language and forget it if we do not use it. But deep in our mental archives, the language remains. This is not so with grace. This is what I have come to understand over the years. I apologize for the sophistry here. I find it difficult to put into words but perhaps someone else can enlighten us?

This makes SO much more sence ... it would not make much sence with the New testament era if we simply 'received' Grace because one of our Elders became grace filled - it would contradict the concept of continuing our ascesis and earning the grace of God through our own efforts!

I think I mentioned it in another post, I had understood that often the disciples would be "permitted" the grace by their Elders - but only for a time - so that the disciple could then strive to achieve that grace again - knowing what it was that they were striving for ... in modern day terms "a tease"! ;-)

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Father Serafim, you wrote:


It is my understanding that grace is not accumulative. If it is 'passed on' to a disciple it is because God so wills it. Accordingly grace can be withdrawn and even the memory of it can be erased by God. Acquiring the spirit or grace of one's elder is not like learning a foreign language. We can learn a language and forget it if we do not use it. But deep in our mental archives, the language remains. This is not so with grace. This is what I have come to understand over the years. I apologize for the sophistry here. I find it difficult to put into words but perhaps someone else can enlighten us?

On your comment that 'grace is not accumulative', I of course wholly agree; but this is because, as I was hinting at before, grace is not some quantative 'thing' that one possesses by some kind of spiritual putting-it-in-one's-pocket and thus 'possessing' it. My discomfort with some of the comments recently comes in what appears to be this kind of concept beneath them; thus the problem isn't really the question of whether grace is or is not 'passed on' from elder to disciple, but the troubling vision of grace as some kind of quasi-substance that gets doled about.

As I wrote above: Grace is a communion of man in God, and the true teacher enjoins his disciple into that very communion. This grace is the intercommunion of his prayer, the disciple's obedience, and the overwhelming compassion of God.

A faithful elder engenders in his disciple (when and if that disciple is ready to receive it) a communion in God's love which is the very reality of God's grace. This is a singularly well-attested part of the spiritual tradition of the Church, and is described by many fathers (as well as others) as the 'passing on' of the grace of the elder, the 'inheritance of grace' which arises from true communion. This is only to be confused with a kind of disconcerting vision of 'property' when grace is understood as a king of quantative 'thing', rather than communion - but this is not how the fathers see it. Again we see how much more perceptive they are than we!

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Owen Jones]

These recent posts remind me of a book title: Truth and Method. The two seem to be tied together, but obviously are not the same. The role of the Elder is two-fold, it seems to me. To impart Truth through a method. But when the method becomes the object, it is perverted and deformed. And when Truth is the only object, absent a tried and true method, you have the same problem. The primary goal of the Elder is to punch through the layer of bitterness that encrusts the soul. He must not follow a method of doing this in such a rigid fashion that what would work on one soul would not work on another. This is necessary so that God's Grace, as a healing energy, at least in part, can be allowed to enter. Without this, a mass of information regarding the method for attaining something spiritual is of less than no use, because its intellectual absorption cannot disperse and unite the parts of the person that are in conflict. And yet the disciple believes he has gotten it, because he has obtained all of the intellectual equipment. And if the Elder is not careful, he can believe that he is being successful in some objective sense, rather than simply being a channel of God's power.

In a sense, we are all called to this same mission in life. With other Christians and with non-believers. Although there is that problem of casting pearls before swine!

[Anna Stickles]

The role of the Elder is two-fold, it seems to me. To impart Truth through a method.

There tend to be a whole host of preconceptions and connotations that come into the mind along with any given word, and certainly I think the Orthodox tradition of discipleship is far better described, as Fr Dcn Matthew states above, as imparting grace through relationship.

Your words of 'truth through a method' bring up the wrong connotations. In the modern mind 'truth' tends to be about intellectual propositions and method is a set of rules to be followed. No matter how much we try to define these words to suit the Orthodox spiritual life, I personally think we will fail.

Following along with what Fr Dcn has said, grace is communion, and this relationship we enter into by grace is a relationship that engenders a likeness.


II Cor 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

The reason I think 'method' is so unsuitable a word is that the obedience of the disciple is rooted not primarily in the rote doing of specific commands as if the aquisition of grace is a mechanical and impersonal process, but rather it is rooted in a relationship of submissiveness, a willingness to be transformed into the image that the Elder manifests. One Russian spiritual father says of obedience and relationship in this context,

"You are to prove to yourself that you are an obedient son or daughter, that you want to live according to this person's advice and that you are able to change those things in your life that are required by his pastoral conscience. I am to change my inner habits so that I can live in accordance with his soul, with his spiritual point of view, ... Fr Artemy, Mature Fruit and Bright Faith, Road to Emmaus #34 (http://www.roadtoemmaus.net/backissues2008.html)
(side note, this article is a wonderfully practical introduction to spiritual guidance rooted not in monastic life, nor in unrealistic ideals but in the practical reality of life as we experience it in the parish)

Actually your mention of truth here reminds me of a quote from one of Michael Card's books that draws together the intellectual and the practical struggles. In his book The Walk, Michael Card teasingly says about his spiritual mentor Bill Lane, "He created me the way Frankenstein created the monster."

Michael goes on to say... "All the maxims contained in this book, original to him, still echo through the corridors of my mind. I still struggle with several of them. The truths contained in others are just beginning to dawn on me. The source of their power is twofold: first they are grounded in Scripture. Second, they are lived out, "incarnated" in Bill’s life. This is a powerful combination. Truth incarnate always is."

I have not read a better summary of what is at the heart of the Orthodox spiritual tradition. It is nothing less then the power of Incarnate Truth to shape us into its own image, not only through words and maxims, but through being in a relationship in which the grace of God is given to conform us to that image. What is the Church? It is the community, the communion, of saints. And entering into this communion, this relationship, with a right disposition of the heart the grace of God conforms us to the image which has been handed down.

The spiritual image that is reflected in the saints of the Orthodox Church has not changed down through 2000 years worth of history. The same character traits - unearthly humility, love, patience, servant authority, joy in the midst of suffering...can be seen throughout.

This, I think, goes back to Troy's original question. There is only one mystical Tradition, because there is only one Image.

" And we have been taught, and are convinced, and do believe, that He accepts those only who imitate the excellences which reside in Him, temperance, justice, and philanthropy and as many virtues as are peculiar to God..." Justin Martyr, First Apology, ch.X
As Paul says,

I Cor 1:12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ."
13Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? …30But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
31so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."
2:12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, …22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or things present or things to come; all things belong to you,
23and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God.

[Owen Jones]

I could have written a four page post to deal with those issues in advance, but decided I would spare everyone!

[David R.]

From The Life of Fr. Porphyrios:

Divine grace spilled over from holy Fr. Dimas and cascaded down upon the young monk Nikitas who was then ready to receive it.

[David R.]

Dear Vasiliki,

What can you tell us of the "aorati" on Mt. Athos?

In Christ,

David

[Vasiliki D.]

Dear Vasiliki,

What can you tell us of the "aorati" on Mt. Athos?

In Christ,

David

Dear David, I can tell you that they are not seen by human eyes unless God wills it :-)

I read about them when I was very young (over 15 years ago) so I do not remember much from the top of my head - they are invisible (literally), hence why they are given the affectionate term "aorati".

I personally have no experience of them of course, however, I had read about them in the Greek Gerontikon.

If time permits me and God wills this, I will follow up on this post with the "stories" of the Gerontikon. You will need some patience since I need to reach my Top Shelf and translate - worth it though since these are the true testimonies of the existence of the aorati and tell us much about who they are and what their purpose is.

As an extra note, I highly recommend that people read the Gerontika since they are like reading The Philokalia or the Life of a Saint ...