Myrrh-streaming Hawaiian-Iveron icon of the Mother of God

[Yuri Zharikov]

A friend has just emailed this message:
The myrrh-streaming Iveron icon from Honolulu, Hawaii these days was officially recognized by vladyka Kyrill as miraculous Myrhh-streaming (http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/ (http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/), the picture and the story is at http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/link2.html (http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/link2.html)).

If somebody lives or is visiting those parts, may find this of interest

[Father David Moser]

A friend has just emailed this message:
The myrrh-streaming Iveron icon from Honolulu, Hawaii these days was officially recognized by vladyka Kyrill as miraculous Myrhh-streaming (http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/ (http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/), the picture and the story is at http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/link2.html (http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/link2.html)).

If somebody lives or is visiting those parts, may find this of interest

The link you sent doesn't seem to work - it only goes to the saint of the day on the parish website. Did what you saw say that the icons had been returned to the parish iin Hawaii? I know that when the Archbishop left to go to the Metropolitan's funeral, they were still in the cathedral in San Francisco. They were placed in new kivots which were made by Fr George Kurtow of St Seraphim's in Seaside and then returned to their places on the side altars of the cathedral. If the Archbishop approved them for veneration, it must have been after his return from Jordanville since the icons were not even mentioned at our pastoral conference last week.

If you plan on visiting the parish and venerating these wonderworking icons, it is probably best to call Fr Anatole in advance and make sure that they have returned to the parish.

Fr David Moser

[Olga]

This link goes to the story of the myrrh-streaming icon:

http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/icons.html

[Father David Moser]

This link goes to the story of the myrrh-streaming icon:

http://www.orthodoxhawaii.org/icons.html

Ah, yes, I did see that - but that is old news (Oct 2007). I was wondering about the report that they had returned to Hawaii from San Francisco.

Fr David Moser

[Yuri Zharikov]

Ah, yes, I did see that - but that is old news (Oct 2007). I was wondering about the report that they had returned to Hawaii from San Francisco.

Fr David Moser

Fr. David,
The note I sent is all I have been told - I did not investigate further. I will though and if indeed the events are most recent I'll post accordingly.

[M. Partyka]

Just out of curiosity, whenever one of these myrrh-streaming icons or relics is discovered, is it ever submitted to a lab for testing to see just what the myrrh is, if any scientific explanation exists for the myrrh's production, etc.? I imagine there must be Orthodox scientists out there who are yearning to put some of these things through a mass spectrometer....

[Olga]

To my knowledge, yes, they are. And so they should be. It is considered improper to venerate a false relic, or to ascribe miraculous origin to a phenomenon such as exuding of myrrh, if this is found to be the work of human intervention. There are cases of "weeping" statues in the Roman Catholic tradition which have, sadly, been found to be the result of a concealed reservoir where fragrant oil can be added. Such an unfortunate case occurred in Perth, Western Australia, a few years ago.

What is interesting in so many cases of myrrh-streaming icons, including examples of recent years, such as the Hawaii-Iveron, and the St Nicholas icon, is the consistency of the descriptions of the substance exuded: it is an oily substance, smelling of roses. This could not be a result of conditions of humidity, nor of the exudation of resin from the wood on which the icon is painted or mounted.

This helpful quote has variously been attributed to Tertullian, Anselm of Canterbury, and Blessed Augustine: I do not understand so that I might believe, but I believe so that I might understand; for if I did not believe, I would not understand.

[M. Partyka]

What is interesting in so many cases of myrrh-streaming icons, including examples of recent years, such as the Hawaii-Iveron, and the St Nicholas icon, is the consistency of the descriptions of the substance exuded: it is an oily substance, smelling of roses. This could not be a result of conditions of humidity, nor of the exudation of resin from the wood on which the icon is painted or mounted.But what is this substance? Does anyone know? Has anyone determined its chemical composition or atomic structure? If not, why not? I'm not saying that I think everything I've seen on "CSI" is true, but I doubt we lack the technology to determine what this "myrrh" actually is.

Maybe it's real myrrh. Maybe it's "I Can't Believe It's Not Myrrh!" Whatever it is, shouldn't we find out?

[Yuri Zharikov]

Ah, yes, I did see that - but that is old news (Oct 2007). I was wondering about the report that they had returned to Hawaii from San Francisco.

Fr David Moser

The information as received by one of the parishioners at the Holy Trinity Church in Vancouver from Rdr. Nectarios (the keeper of the Icon, as far as I know) a couple of days ago.
The Icon returned from SFO to her home parish in Hawaii a week ago. Archb. Kyrill indeed gave his blessing for the Icon to be venerated. For the unduly inquisitive ones - no, he did not run mass-spectrophotometry on the myrrh before giving his blessing. Currently Fr. Anatole (rector of the parish where the Icon resides) is working on a plan to bring the Icon to the mainland, which God-willing, may happen within a few months from now. Interested parties may inquire directly with Fr. Anatole using the link to his parish web-page on this thread.

[Olga]

M. Partyka, I don't have details of the chemical profile of myrrh exuded by icons. What I can say is that I was fortunate to have had the chance to observe and venerate the icon of St Nicholas I mentioned above, when it visited Australia several years ago. The tracks of the myrrh were clearly visible on the surface of the icon, but, to my amazement, the exudate was not simply static. The myrrh continued to come forth in globules and slowly trickle down the surface of the icon even as I stood before it. An unnerving and most humbling experience.

By the time the thanksgiving service in honour of the icon had finished, the fragrance of the myrrh filled the church. Though rose-scented incense is often used in this church, the fragrance of the myrrh was unmistakeably different. Old roses. Like the sort which would have grown in your grandparents' house. Gnarled old bushes, covered in thorns, but with spectacularly fragrant blooms. Most modern fragrant rose varieties are rather anaemic by comparison.

After the end of the service, little ziplock bags containing pieces of cotton wool soaked in the myrrh were handed out to those attending. The myrrh was an oil, of a consistency between cooking oil and honey.

[Michael Stickles]

But what is this substance? Does anyone know? Has anyone determined its chemical composition or atomic structure? If not, why not? I'm not saying that I think everything I've seen on "CSI" is true, but I doubt we lack the technology to determine what this "myrrh" actually is.

Maybe it's real myrrh. Maybe it's "I Can't Believe It's Not Myrrh!" Whatever it is, shouldn't we find out?

I've only heard of one case (http://www.antiochian.org.au/SaintMaryMountPritchard/about.php?action=miracle) where a laboratory analysis was done (which does not mean there haven't been others, of course). According to the report I read, the spectrographic "fingerprint" of the exuded oil in that case was identical to olive oil.

In Christ,
Mike

[Andrew D. Morrell]

I've only heard of one case (http://www.antiochian.org.au/SaintMaryMountPritchard/about.php?action=miracle) where a laboratory analysis was done (which does not mean there haven't been others, of course). According to the report I read, the spectrographic "fingerprint" of the exuded oil in that case was identical to olive oil.

In Christ,
Mike

This past weekend, the icon was brought to St. Paisius and then St Anthony's in Arizona. My wife was able to spend time with it at St. Paisius and was blessed. I was able to get to St. Anthony's on Sunday, to see and venerate the icon. Her story of the icons arrival at St. Paisius in the deep desert night amidst songs of celebration is a wonderful and moving story of reverence for what is holy.

It was a different presentation at St. Anthony's Sunday afternoon, sort of casually reverent with a q&a period led by the young man who is caretaker of the icon. I returned afterwards when only two others were at the icon. And it was an incredible few moments.

I touched my unworthy lips to a miracle. It was humbling beyond words. To see a bead of the liquid appear, to FEEL the presence of the Theotokos, to smell the scent of roses on my beard for the rest of the day... it broke and healed my skeptical heart.

In Christ,
Andrew

[Ilias Ioa]

But what is this substance? Does anyone know? Has anyone determined its chemical composition or atomic structure? If not, why not? I'm not saying that I think everything I've seen on "CSI" is true, but I doubt we lack the technology to determine what this "myrrh" actually is.

Maybe it's real myrrh. Maybe it's "I Can't Believe It's Not Myrrh!" Whatever it is, shouldn't we find out?

The other doctrines outside orthodoxy mainly the numerous american homologies of protestantism are dried of Grace, have no tradition and lack the Tradition of the orthodox church, that's why they doubt what they don't and Can't have.The miracle refered was in France in the 80s. A syrian orthodox living in france had a syrian or libanese orthodox man as a servant in his house.The servant was a humble man of true faith.One day before a Holy Day for Theotokos the syrian landlord was away and asked the servant to lit a candle in front of a Theotokos Icon he had in the house.He prayed also, and the icon started streaming myrrh.It was announced in the media in france by a syrian bishop or something and it was analysed by french biochemists.The myrrh was found to be oily like the olive oil oils but it resembled cholesterole.The icon was also found to excreed or stream the myrrh,i don't know if I use the correct verb.So this was a case of a scientifically studied myrrh streaming orthodox icons.And yes this myrrh if you have faith does miracles and Yes, all these things happen only in the Orthodox Church the Real Catholic and Apostolic Church of Christ.Holy Grace can be found only in Orthodoxy.

[Nina]

Can I break my strict bed rest to go there?????? Why did I have to be now on bed rest???
From an email:

Visit of the Hawaiian Myrrh-Bearing Iveron Icon of Hawaii to the US Mainland

With the blessing of His Excellency Archbishop KYRILL of San Francisco and
Western America (ROCOR), and the continued blessing His Eminence
Metropolitan GERASIMOS of the Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco.;
the “miracle-working” Myrrh-streaming Iveron Icon of the Holy Theotokos of
Hawaii will be traveling from Honolulu, once again, to the “lower 48.” This
tour will not only include the West Coast, but also the East Coast.

This incredible and sacred relic has been a constant source of numerous and
truly miraculous healings, both physical and spiritual. In the short time
that Our Lady has presented Herself to us in this Icon: cures of blindness,
kidney disease, heart disease, various forms of cancer, as well as other
health related issue, including the healing of a young woman from near
death; have been reported..

I urge everyone to see what a marvelous gift God has given us.

The holy Icon, along with Her Guardian, will remain in the San Francisco/San
Jose area for four days, and then travel to the East Coast where She will be
received by monasteries and churches in New York, Pennsylvania,
Massachusetts, and Washington D.C.

We urge everyone to attend, the service schedule is provided below (to learn
more, please visit www.orthodoxhawaii.org) --

Thursday, August 13:
7:00pm - Holy Cross Greek Orthodox Church, Belmont, CA.
Friday, August 14:
7:00pm - St. Nicholas Orthodox Church (OCA), Saratoga, CA.

Saturday, August 15: - Feast of the Dormition (New Calendar)
9:00am - Resurrection Greek Orthodox Church, Castro Valley, CA.
6:00pm - All Russian Saints Russian Orthodox Church, Burlingame, CA.

Sunday, August 16:
9:00am - St. Basil the Great Greek Orthodox Church, San Jose, CA.

Monday, August 17:
7:00am - Nativity of the Theotokos Greek Orthodox Monastery, Saxonburg, PA.
6:30pm - Holy Protection Greek Orthodox Monastery, Weatherly, PA.

Tuesday, August 18:
9:00am - St. Nektarios Greek Orthodox Monastery, Roscoe, NY.
6:00pm - Holy Trinity Monastery, Jordanville, NY.

Wednesday, August 19: - Feast of the Transfiguration (Old Calendar)
8:00am - Holy Trinity Monastery, Jordanville, NY.

Thursday, August 20:
6:00pm - Russian Orthodox Church of the Epiphany, Boston, MA.

Friday, August 21:
9:00am - Holy Virgin Protection Russian Orthodox Church, Nyack, NY.

Saturday, August 22:
8:00am - St. Seraphim Russian Orthodox Church, Sea Cliff, NY.
4:00pm - St. John the Baptist Russian Orthodox Cathedral, Washington, DC.

Sunday, August 23:
8:00am - St. John the Baptist Russian Orthodox Cathedral, Washington, DC.
6:00pm - Chapel of the Montreal-Iveron Icon (Rock Creek Cemetery),
Washington, DC.

[Paul Cowan]

Yes you can. What? you think doctors can make you better? Go let the Holy Mother help you. I see she is not coming down here, so if you need a ride, I'll come take you! We all know your devotion to her Nina. She is faithful to those that come to her in faith. Go to her and let her heal you and protect your baby son. GO! THIS SATURDAY OR SUNDAY.

You have 3 opportunities.

Saturday, August 22:
4:00pm - St. John the Baptist Russian Orthodox Cathedral, Washington, DC.

Sunday, August 23:
8:00am - St. John the Baptist Russian Orthodox Cathedral, Washington, DC.
6:00pm - Chapel of the Montreal-Iveron Icon (Rock Creek Cemetery),
Washington, DC.

Paul

[Andrew D. Morrell]

Hi Nina,

You poor thing. You and your baby are in a lot of people's prayers, including ours.

While both my wife and I were deeply moved and changed by this icon, neither of us were under doctors orders to remain in bed. I believe that means no horseback riding, pogo stick competitions, etc.

The icon will certainly return to the states. Meanwhile, you are presently participating (intensely!) in your own wondrous miracle. Please continue to play it safe.

I know you plan to anyway. You're already being a great mother.

In Christ's love,
Andrew

EDIT: Well... if Paul's going to drive all the way there, rent a properly equipped vehicle... and your priest okays it.... <SMILE>

[QUOTE=Nina;82039]Can I break my strict bed rest to go there?????? Why did I have to be now on bed rest???
From an email:[/QUOT

[Vasiliki D.]

Yes you can. What? you think doctors can make you better? Go let the Holy Mother help you. I see she is not coming down here, so if you need a ride, I'll come take you! We all know your devotion to her Nina. She is faithful to those that come to her in faith. Go to her and let her heal you and protect your baby son. GO! THIS SATURDAY OR SUNDAY.

You have 3 opportunities.

Saturday, August 22:
4:00pm - St. John the Baptist Russian Orthodox Cathedral, Washington, DC.

Sunday, August 23:
8:00am - St. John the Baptist Russian Orthodox Cathedral, Washington, DC.
6:00pm - Chapel of the Montreal-Iveron Icon (Rock Creek Cemetery),
Washington, DC.

Paul

Nina, receive your Spiritual Father's blessing to go and you will be fine and not in breach of Doctor's orders ... we are Byzantine Orthodox so, we DO respect what the Doctors tell us to follow but the blessing of our Spiritual Father overrides the doctor anyday!

Then, as Paul said - who BETTER than our Panaghia to protect you?

[Paul Cowan]

EDIT: Well... if Paul's going to drive all the way there, rent a properly equipped vehicle... and your priest okays it.... <SMILE>



Who said anything about renting? I'm going to hijack a top of the line ambulance with all the bells and whistles (literally) and just in case she decides to deliver, we'll be just fine. I'm sure she has had breathing classes. If not, well, there will be alot of screaming and cussing. Her priest can tag along for 'the blessing of the sturrips'. You'll find that one under the Common Prayers of the New Jordanville prayer book page 777.

If I can start a fire with flint and steel, I can deliver a baby. right? I've seen all the movies. All I have to do is boil water and there you have it. Don't worry sis. I've boiled water hundreds of times.

Paul