How many Athonites?

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

Christos Anesti! A Blessed and Joyous Pascha to my Orthodox and Greek Catholic brothers and sisters!

Does anybody here know how many monks and hermits now live in Athos and its dependencies? What are the latest figures and statistics? I just need it for something I'm writing. Thanks to all!

[Michael Stickles]

Does anybody here know how many monks and hermits now live in Athos and its dependencies? What are the latest figures and statistics?

A Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos) on Athos says the 2001 Greek national census counted 2,262 inhabitants. According to an online review (http://www.athosfriends.org/reviews/1994reviews/gothoni_speake1994.htm) of his book Paradise within Reach: Monasticism and Pilgrimage on Mt Athos), Rene Gothoni put the population at about 1300 monks and 1500 lay workers at the time of his research in 1984-1988. The Macedonian Heritage (http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Athos/General/monasteries.html) website's Athos page gives the 1990 population figures for individual monasteries (one was a 1999 figure); they add up to 1360 monks, plus 238 in those sketes for which populations were given.

I'm not sure why the 2001 census figure is over 500 less than the 1984-88 figure, since OrthodoxPhotos.com (http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/Athonite_Hermits/index.shtml) says that 609 new monks arrived in the decade 1987-1996. The numbers I found on the website of the National Statistical Service of Greece had Athos' population rolled up into the Chalkidiki region, and I couldn't find a better breakdown. The administrative capital, Karyes, has a population of about 350 and might not have been included in the 2001 census figure (possibly it listed Karyes separately, and the Wikipedia source didn't add them in? I just don't know, I'm speculating).

Mike

[Kosta]

A Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos) on Athos says the 2001 Greek national census counted 2,262 inhabitants. According to an online review (http://www.athosfriends.org/reviews/1994reviews/gothoni_speake1994.htm) of his book Paradise within Reach: Monasticism and Pilgrimage on Mt Athos), Rene Gothoni put the population at about 1300 monks and 1500 lay workers at the time of his research in 1984-1988. The Macedonian Heritage (http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Athos/General/monasteries.html) website's Athos page gives the 1990 population figures for individual monasteries (one was a 1999 figure); they add up to 1360 monks, plus 238 in those sketes for which populations were given.

I'm not sure why the 2001 census figure is over 500 less than the 1984-88 figure, since OrthodoxPhotos.com (http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/Athonite_Hermits/index.shtml) says that 609 new monks arrived in the decade 1987-1996. The numbers I found on the website of the National Statistical Service of Greece had Athos' population rolled up into the Chalkidiki region, and I couldn't find a better breakdown. The administrative capital, Karyes, has a population of about 350 and might not have been included in the 2001 census figure (possibly it listed Karyes separately, and the Wikipedia source didn't add them in? I just don't know, I'm speculating).

Mike

I would take the 2200+ number to be the most accurate. Its the latest and comes from the best source , the state of Greece. From what i understand those residing in sketes and those who are hutdwellersand hermits make up a significant number.

[Owen Jones]

Are there any accurate figures for Russia? US?

[Nicolaj]

For Russia our Bishop said that there are several ten thousands of NEW monks and nuns entering the monasteries and the times I was there myself I was able to see and meet many young nuns and monks myself.

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

[Misha]

Monks living in Mt Athos are about 1800.
2001 statistics say that Mt.Athos population is 1.961 men.
Among them there are policemen,firemen,workers etc.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Are there any accurate figures for Russia? US?

For the US, I think an accurate figure is simply not possible. It depends to some extent how you define "monastery" and "Orthodox". I fear it is a rather dynamic environment. There are several pseudo-Orthodox organizations that have monasteries or monastery-like faculties and there is certainly NO central authority keeping track at any rate. Should we also include HOCNA and ROAC and ROCiE and the other OC Greek monasteries? I do on my OMNA directory but I catch a lot of grief for it. I know that I list close to 100 monasteries in the US and Canada and now one in Mexico as well. Some have only 1 or 2 monastics, some may have 6 to 12 and of course the Ephraimite monasteries may have anywhere from 20-50 monastics in residence depending on the facility and who knows how many novices and "extended stay" teenagers hanging out. A few monasteries have closed for one reason or another recently and several have jurisdiction-jumped once or twice. Believe me, it is very hard to keep track!

Herman the monastery-watching Pooh

[Fr Nectarios Trevino]

A Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos) on Athos says the 2001 Greek national census counted 2,262 inhabitants. According to an online review (http://www.athosfriends.org/reviews/1994reviews/gothoni_speake1994.htm) of his book Paradise within Reach: Monasticism and Pilgrimage on Mt Athos), Rene Gothoni put the population at about 1300 monks and 1500 lay workers at the time of his research in 1984-1988. The Macedonian Heritage (http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Athos/General/monasteries.html) website's Athos page gives the 1990 population figures for individual monasteries (one was a 1999 figure); they add up to 1360 monks, plus 238 in those sketes for which populations were given.

I'm not sure why the 2001 census figure is over 500 less than the 1984-88 figure, since OrthodoxPhotos.com (http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/Athonite_Hermits/index.shtml) says that 609 new monks arrived in the decade 1987-1996. The numbers I found on the website of the National Statistical Service of Greece had Athos' population rolled up into the Chalkidiki region, and I couldn't find a better breakdown. The administrative capital, Karyes, has a population of about 350 and might not have been included in the 2001 census figure (possibly it listed Karyes separately, and the Wikipedia source didn't add them in? I just don't know, I'm speculating).

Mike

Mike,

Only Heaven knows! As long as there is one monk there are many...present & surrounded by the saints and angels.

Seriously, the number varies wildly form 1,400 (see: http://mountathos.info/ ) to 3,000 (see: http://abacus.bates.edu/~rallison/friends/reviews/1997reviews/monasteries_speake1997.htm ). Interestingly - "'monastic populations fluctuated; and Abbot Paisios of Chilandari in his Tale of the Holy Mountain of Athos (1550) tells us why: ‘when the scribes come to take a census, we do not report exact numbers for fear of heavy duties and taxes.’ (See: http://abacus.bates.edu/~rallison/friends/reviews/1997reviews/monasteries_speake1997.htm ) While I doubt this is presently occurring, who knows?

Not a commercial plug, but if you'd care to support Mt. Athos, this is the organization to which I provide my pennies: Friends of Mt Athos Homepage - http://abacus.bates.edu/~rallison/friends/

In Christ,
fr n

[Yuri Zharikov]

Are there any accurate figures for Russia? US?

in late 1990s - early 2000s there were about 10,000 monastics in Russia; there number has to be much higher now. Many monasteries - Diveevo, the four Lavras have hundreds of monastics; in Diveevo to be accepted as a novice a girl/woman would have to be put on a waiting list and then have an interview; in Odessa for the urban monasteries almost exclusively people with higher education are accepted. Generally the plank for acceptance into a monastery in Russia is constantly increasing.

[Andreas Moran]

I've been in several monasteries in Russia in the last 20 days and they are packed with young monastics. We were blessed to be present at the tonsuring of four monks in Holy Trinity St Sergius Lavra.

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

I've been in several monasteries in Russia in the last 20 days and they are packed with young monastics. We were blessed to be present at the tonsuring of four monks in Holy Trinity St Sergius Lavra.

Hello, Andreas

I was trying to send you a PM but I don't know if it reached you.

You say that you were in several monasteries in Russia. May I request you to say something about what you saw there? I hear that Russian monasteries are like little heavens, with so many young and fervent monks and much devout and unabbreviated liturgizing.

[Andreas Moran]

You say that you were in several monasteries in Russia. May I request you to say something about what you saw there? I hear that Russian monasteries are like little heavens, with so many young and fervent monks and much devout and unabbreviated liturgizing.

In the last five years I've been to many monasteries in Russia. The rapid restoration of monasteries and their being filled with many young people is plain to see. I can't say that all those I have seen are 'little heavens' but the growth of the monastic vocation is astonishing. From what I've seen, there are no short cuts in services! Paschal Vespers on Bright Monday evening at the podvoria of St Panteleimon (Moscow) had been going on for over two hours when we left.

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

In the last five years I've been to many monasteries in Russia. The rapid restoration of monasteries and their being filled with many young people is plain to see. I can't say that all those I have seen are 'little heavens' but the growth of the monastic vocation is astonishing. From what I've seen, there are no short cuts in services! Paschal Vespers on Bright Monday evening at the podvoria of St Panteleimon (Moscow) had been going on for over two hours when we left.

Does the "St. Panteleimon" here refer to the Athonite monastery?

More than two hours for Vespers... I wonder how long the Paschal Matins and the Divine Liturgy lasted...

[Andreas Moran]

Dear Carlos,

Yes, the monastery in Moscow (see my 'Places in Russia' album for a photo I took of it) is a dependency of St Panteleimon's monastery on Mt Athos.


More than two hours for Vespers... I wonder how long the Paschal Matins and the Divine Liturgy lasted...

Yes, well, we went to our parish church!

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

Dear Carlos,

Yes, the monastery in Moscow (see my 'Places in Russia' album for a photo I took of it) is a dependency of St Panteleimon's monastery on Mt Athos.



Yes, well, we went to our parish church!

And how long was it there?

Anyway, enough of my trivial questions!

Coming back to the topic of this thread, you mentioned that you went to a podvorie of St. Panteleimon. Is that a monastery, and if yes, are the monks there considered Athonites?

[Andreas Moran]

And how long was it there?

About four and a half hours.

The podvorie is a monastery and they follow the Athonite rule. I doubt they get to St Panteleimon's much: I heard in Moscow that there are only two Russian monks there now - the rest are Ukrainian. I'm sorry to say that it seems, from what Russians have told me, the Greeks have greatly harassed the Russians on the Holy Mountain.

[Paul Cowan]

I'm sorry to say that it seems, from what Russians have told me, the Greeks have greatly harassed the Russians on the Holy Mountain.

They are just jealous. St. Panteleimon was getting a total face lift when I was there. Their dorms were being totally redone. This monastery was being very well financed from back home. Much more so than any of the others I saw.

Then again, I am talking out the side of my mouth.

PAul

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

About four and a half hours.

The podvorie is a monastery and they follow the Athonite rule. I doubt they get to St Panteleimon's much: I heard in Moscow that there are only two Russian monks there now - the rest are Ukrainian. I'm sorry to say that it seems, from what Russians have told me, the Greeks have greatly harassed the Russians on the Holy Mountain.

4.5 hours. For a parish, that sounds long.

I'm greatly puzzled as to why the Greeks and Russians keep fighting about Athos. From what I've read, more than half of all monks in Athos were Russian prior to WWI, and it is said that at present as many as 5,000 Russians are ready to go to Athos were it not for the fact that the Ecumenical Patriarchate won't allow them to come in.

I thought that Athos is for the whole Orthodox Church, not just the Greeks.

Now, for this Catholic, it would be nice too if the Benedictines of Fontgombault would also be allowed to inhabit Morfonou (the old Benedictine abbey in Athos), but I don't think it's even realistic to hope for that right now.

[Misha]

Now, for this Catholic, it would be nice too if the Benedictines of Fontgombault would also be allowed to inhabit Morfonou (the old Benedictine abbey in Athos), but I don't think it's even realistic to hope for that right now.

When the Emperor Michael Paleologos contracted the ill-famed Union of Lyons with the Pope to receive his help against the Bulgars and Serbs, the monks of the Holy Mountain sent the emperor a protest against this union, and urged him to set it aside and return to orthodoxy.
During these very trying times for the Holy Mountain, there lived a monk who resided near the Zografou Monastery and would try ascetically on his own, with great labours and effort.
This monk had this holy custom of reading the Akathist Hymn many times while praying in front of this Icon of the Mother of God. One day, while he was chanting "Rejoice O unwedded Bride" he hears the following words from the Icon: "Rejoice too, O Elder of God!"

The Elder was frightened but the voice continued calmly: "Do not fear, but rush to the Monastery and announce to the Brothers and the Abbot that the enemies of myself and of my Son have drawn near. Thus, whoever is weak in the spirit let them hide in patience. The ones desiring a martyr's crown let them stay inside the Monastery; leave quickly
The Pope sent an army to the Emperor's aid, and this Latin army went onto the Holy Mountain and set about such barbarism as the Turks never perpetrated in 500 years. Hanging members of the Council and slaughtering many of the monks of Vatopedi, Iviron and other monasteries, the Latins attacked Zografou. The blessed Abbot Thomas told the bretheren by inspiration that those who desired to save themselves from the Latins should flee the monastery, and those who desired a martyr's death should stay. Twenty-six men stayed: twenty-two monks with their abbot and four laymen who worked for the monastery. They all shut themselves in the monastery tower. When the Latins arrived, they set the tower alight, and these twenty six heroes found a martyr's death in flames. While the tower was burning, they sang hymns of the Akathist to the Mother of God and gave their holy souls into God's hands on October 10th, 1282. In December of the same year, the dishonourable Emperor Michael Paleologos died in poverty, the Serbian King Milutin having risen up against him in defense of Orthodoxy.

[Andreas Moran]

4.5 hours. For a parish, that sounds long.

I'd be interested to know if those in parishes, especially Greek ones, think so. It's certainly much shorter than the Paschal service at the monastery here in Essex which starts about 9.00pm and finishes about 3.30am as I remember. But then they do read Acts and Revelation.


I'm greatly puzzled as to why the Greeks and Russians keep fighting about Athos. From what I've read, more than half of all monks in Athos were Russian prior to WWI, and it is said that at present as many as 5,000 Russians are ready to go to Athos were it not for the fact that the Ecumenical Patriarchate won't allow them to come in.

One assumes that EP has to toe the western/American line which is to makes things as difficult for Russia and Russians as possible.

[Owen Jones]

The Ecumenical Patriarch is claiming universal jurisdiction, while the Russian Patriarch (probably a KGB guy) is jockeying for dominance and wants to diminish the power and influence of the Ecumenical Patriarch. Messy business.

[Ken McRae]

Messy business.

Speaking of "messy business," I can't say I'm too impressed with the way the EP is treating the Esphigmenou Brotherhood (http://www.esphigmenou.com/) of late. It is truly disgraceful, in my opinion, but perhaps I don't have all the facts. Does the Rudder give any guidance in this situation? Can anyone provide me (us all) with any real insight into what's going on there; and how the rest of the Athonite brothers are reacting to the plight of Esphigmenou? Thanks.

[Olga]

A short answer to a long-running and complex situation, Ken:

1. The Ephigmenou impasse has been going on with varying degrees of intensity for decades.

2. The governing council of Athos (the council of the principal monasteries on the peninsula) have long attempted a peaceful and reasonable resolution or accommodation with Esphigmenou over a similar period, to little avail.

3. Mistakes and transgressions have been made on both sides over the years, however, on balance, Esphigmenou seems to have behaved more so in a spirit of schism and disobedience, rather than conciliation.

[Ken McRae]

3. Mistakes and transgressions have been made on both sides over the years, however, on balance, Esphigmenou seems to have behaved more so in a spirit of schism and disobedience, rather than conciliation.

Thanks, Olga.

Still, if it is true that the EP has taken to trying to starve the brothers to death, by cutting off their food and medical supplies, that seems to me like a fairly "unchristian" spirit and approach to the problem, not to mention inhumane; and it seems there have already been at least two brothers that have died as a direct result of such radical measures. That is what I am referring too.

The Ephigmenou Brothers may be schismatics, but as far as I can see, the Gospel does not sanction inhumane behaviour toward our enemies; but rather to bless them that curse us, and to do good onto them. Or have I got it wrong? How can starving the brothers to death be squared with blessing your enemies, and doing good unto them? Trying to starve your enemy to death seems to be completely opposite to what Jesus taught.

Don't you think so?

[Misha]

EP some years ago used violence (policemen and pro-EP monks ) to force the small russian brotherhood of st Elias Skete (friendly to ROCOR) to leave Mt Athos,because they denied to commemorate EP's name .

Same things happen again now with the Esphigmenou monastery.

There's a lack of humility and love from both sides....unfortunately....

[Kosta]

Keep in mind that any official count of the number of monks on Mt Athos does Not include the 90 or so monks of the Esphigmenou brotherhood.

The EP is not very popular on Athos nowadays. The Skete of St Bail has aligned themselves with the Cyprianites and many monks have left the monasteries to become hutdwellers in protest over the EP. The Holy Mountain is more divided than most people think.

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

Keep in mind that any official count of the number of monks on Mt Athos does Not include the 90 or so monks of the Esphigmenou brotherhood.

The EP is not very popular on Athos nowadays. The Skete of St Bail has aligned themselves with the Cyprianites and many monks have left the monasteries to become hutdwellers in protest over the EP. The Holy Mountain is more divided than most people think.

Sometimes I wonder if the time will come when the monasteries of the Holy Mountain will ask to be received into the omophor of either the Serbian or the Russian Patriarchate.

Is Esphigmenou the only non-commemorating monastery? I thought that since December 2006 many monasteries have ceased to commemorate the EP.

[Misha]

The majority of the athonite monasteries have ceased to commemorate the EP Athenagoras ,during the 70s.
Monastery of Stavroniketa has done the same under the spiritual guidance of the renowned elder Paisios.
After the 2006 common liturgy between EP -Pope in Constantinople there was a wave of reactions in Mt Athos ,especially from the Sketiotes and the celliotes, but no major monastery has officialy ceased EP's commemoration.
Signs of the times.....

[Andreas Moran]

Sometimes I wonder if the time will come when the monasteries of the Holy Mountain will ask to be received into the omophor of either the Serbian or the Russian Patriarchate.

The West wouldn't allow that.

[Ken McRae]

The West wouldn't allow that.

This comment went over my head, I'm afraid. Please clarify. Thanks.

[Andreas Moran]

Ken McRae Quotation:
Originally Posted by Andreas Moran
The West wouldn't allow that.

This comment went over my head, I'm afraid. Please clarify. Thanks.

Well, the West is hostile to Russia and Serbia and to Orthodoxy and wouldn't want to encourage what is an area within Greece to be linked with Russia and Serbia in that way. The US soon got rid of EP Maximos V as is well known because he wanted normal relations with MP.

[Fr Nectarios Trevino]

Speaking of "messy business," I can't say I'm too impressed with the way the EP is treating the Esphigmenou Brotherhood (http://www.esphigmenou.com/) of late. It is truly disgraceful, in my opinion, but perhaps I don't have all the facts. Does the Rudder give any guidance in this situation? Can anyone provide me (us all) with any real insight into what's going on there; and how the rest of the Athonite brothers are reacting to the plight of Esphigmenou? Thanks.

One thing no one has said and we must remember: where there is no bishop, there is no church. Rightly or wrongly, this applies to Esphigmenou - they are not 'in' the Holy Church.

[Marcus Sgro]

Well, the West is hostile to Russia and Serbia and to Orthodoxy and wouldn't want to encourage what is an area within Greece to be linked with Russia and Serbia in that way. The US soon got rid of EP Maximos V as is well known because he wanted normal relations with MP.

?????????

[We seem to be moving way off topic. Maybe this would be better in another forum]

[Ken McRae]

Well, the West is hostile to Russia and Serbia and to Orthodoxy and wouldn't want to encourage what is an area within Greece to be linked with Russia and Serbia in that way. The US soon got rid of EP Maximos V as is well known because he wanted normal relations with MP.

I see. I get it now. It seems to make a lot of sense, in one way.

[Misha]

fr.Nectarios

there were many periods and places during the 2000 yrs of Church's history,when the bishops were heretics and the faithful orthodox have broken communion with them.


A great example is st Marcus of Ephesus who denied to have any relation with the uniate patriarch and the bishops who followed him.
Even the faithful people of Constantinople didn't entry in Hagia Sophia after the common liturgy between patriarch Isidore and a cardinal in 12 December 1452.

i ,humbly ,think that we should be very cautious when we decide who is in and outside the Church,especially when there are no dogmatic differences.

[Herman Blaydoe]

I would say we are getting very off-topic here. I believe the original topic was how many monastics are in residence on Mt. Athos, not their politics.

[Michael Stickles]

I would say we are getting very off-topic here. I believe the original topic was how many monastics are in residence on Mt. Athos, not their politics.

Good point. There was another thread devoted to Mt. Athos and Esphigmenou Monastery (http://www.monachos.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4286&page=2), which perhaps could be revived if people want to pursue that track. It does seem that some of the issues addressed here might eventually wind up affecting the population of Athos (for good or ill), but I don't think that's sufficient to claim that they're "on-topic".

I had never heard that the Esphigmenou monks were not included in the official counts of Mt. Athos, as Kosta reported. That could up some of the counts by 90+ (depending on whether it extends to associated sketes/hermitages, if any).

In Christ,
Mike

[Kosta]

From what i understand only 2 or 3 are counted since they have been residence of the Monastery since before the initial schism of 1972 and there names are registered with the government (or something to that effect)