'Lying in the grave' after death?

[Mike O'Grady]

after death people just lie in the grave until the Second Coming.

Doesn't this imply that:

No one has yet ever went to heaven?

and

That Heaven is empty?

I have a problem with that.

Thoughts?

[Paul Cowan]

Life after death by St. John Maximovitch (http://www.orthodox.net/articles/life-after-death-john-maximovitch.html) There is already a thread on tollhouses.

The explanation of Lazarus and the rich man (http://www.greekorthodoxchurch.org/life_after_death.html). There is already a thread on purgatory.

I have no proof of this and I suppose it is jus tmy own opinion, but I think there are only 3 people in Heaven the holy trinity notwithstanding. Enoch because he was translated by God, Elijah in the fiery chariot and the holy theotokos who was escorted by christ Himself.

I was taught everyone else is subject to the general judgement and are in a holding cell (if you will) in either paradise or hades awaiting the Last judgement. This is not a place to fix your bodily life's sins, but a foretaste of where we might be finally sent. Again, there are many threads on this on Monachos.

Paul

[Mike O'Grady]

Thanks for the info, Paul....

I'm obviously not too familiar with this board or the doctrine yet.

[Antonios]

Dear Mike O'Grady,

Welcome to the forums! I think the difficulty in answering your question is because it is difficult to prove who is in heaven. And even what you mean by the word heaven itself since the word can sometimes mean different concepts.

The corpses of the dead lie in the grave, that is true. But this does not mean that the Kingdom of God is empty! The Kingdom of God, to which the Lord said was 'within us' is life itself, the pure source of true life. And to those to whom God has chosen, the loss of the flesh is not death, but rather a liberation. And with such blessed loving joy, they rejoice in the Kingdom of God and echo the praises of the angels! This cloud of witnesses which are the saints!

It must be remembered that waiting for the General Resurrection is not something the soul of the saint passively lies back for, but rather something it anticipates and prays for, and spiritually partakes in through the grace of God, Who is God of the living.

But to those who have made their flesh and the world and all their possessions in it their god and their master, then its shedding by the soul is not a liberation, but a fearful loss of all meaning, a death and separation from their god, a perpetual Golgotha-a living hell. The soul here may not pray for the General Resurrection, it may not even anticipate its eventual arrival, but one thing it definitely will not be doing is laying back and passively await the Final Judgment. For the Lord our God is a just and merciful God, thus before the verdict can be pronounced, the entire trial must be completed.

In Christ,
Antonios

[Andreas Moran]

'We have not been bereft of the boy, but we have given him back to the lender; nor has his life been destroyed, but merely transformed for the better; earth has not covered our beloved but heaven has received him (ου γη κατεκρυψε τον αγαπητον ημων, αλλ' ουρανος υπεδεξατο).'

Saint Basil the Great, Letter to Nectarius in Consolation (on the death of his young son).