Lack of icons of St John Maximovich

[Andreas Moran]

Notwithstanding the recent rapprochement between MP and ROCOR, nowhere in Moscow could I find an icon of St John Maximovich.

[Alice]

Notwithstanding the recent rapprochement between MP and ROCOR, nowhere in Moscow could I find an icon of St John Maximovich.

That is strange! He is such a great and miraculous saint!

[Andreas Moran]

That's what I thought.

[Paul Cowan]

The Life of St. John Maximovich. (http://members.tripod.com/~shtyetz_john/life-of-st-john-sanfran.html)

His Icons (http://saintjohnwonderworker.org/icon.htm)


Akathist to Saint John of San Francisco
Kontakion I


Chosen wonderworker and superb servant of Christ, who pourest out in the latter times inexhaustible streams of inspiration and multitude of miracles. We praise Thee with love, and call out to Thee:
Rejoice, O holy Hierarch John, wonderworker of the latter times.

Ikos I

An angel in the flesh wast Thou manifested in the latter times by the grace of God Who ever careth for men. Seeing the beauty of Thy virtues, we Thy children now cry out to Thee:

Rejoice, Thou who didst live in virtue from earliest childhood.
Rejoice, Thou who didst ever live in fear of God and do His holy will.
Rejoice, Thou who didst manifest the grate of God in numberless virtues.
Rejoice, Thou who didst mystically hear the distant prayers of those in distress.
Rejoice, Thou who wast filled with love for Thy fellow man and didst do all possible for their salvation.
Rejoice, Thou who dost bring joy to all who pray to Thee in faith and love.
Rejoice, O holy Hierarch John, wonderworker of the latter times.

Kontakion 2

Seeing the abundance and variety of Thy virtues, O holy Hierarch, we see in Thee a living source of God's wonders in our time. Thou dost refresh with Thy love and miracles all who cry in faith to God: Alleluia.

Ikos 2

Being filled with love. Thou wast also filled with theology, O Holy Father. And in Thee the knowledge of God flowed forth again in love for suffering men. Do Thou teach us also to know the true God in love as we call out to Thee in admiration.

Rejoice, firm stronghold of Orthodox truth
Rejoice, precious vessel of the gifts of the Holy Spirit
Rejoice, righteous accuser of impiety and false doctrine
Rejoice, ardent doer of the commandments of God
Rejoice, severe ascetic who gavest thyself no repose
Rejoice, loving shepherd of the flock of Christ Rejoice, O holy Hierarch John, wonderworker of the latter times.

Kontakion 3

By God's mercy Thou wast manifest as a father to orphans and instructor of the young, raising them in the fear of God and preparing them for the service of God. Therefore all Thy children look to Thee with love and cry out with gratitude to God:
Alleluia.


Ikos 3

Dwellers in heaven should be praising Thee and not we on earth, for our words are feeble beside Thy deeds. Yet offering to God what we have we cry out to Thee thus:

Rejoice, Thou who didst protect Thy children by Thy constant prayer.
Rejoice, Thou who didst ever guard Thy flock by the sign of the Cross.
Rejoice, Thou whose love knew no bounds of country or race
Rejoice, bright luminary beloved by all.
Rejoice, model of spiritual meekness.
Rejoice, giver of spiritual consolation to those in need.
Rejoice, O holy Hierarch John, wonderworker of the latter times.

Kontakion 4

Bewildered by Thy deeds of piety and love, we know not how to praise Thee worthily, O Hierarch John. Thou didst travel to the ends of the earth to save Thy people and preach the gospel to those in darkness. Thanking God for Thine apostolic labors, we cry out to Him:
Alleluia.

Ikos 4

The people of many lands beheld Thy life and marveled at God's mercies even in these latter times. And so we also, marveling, cry out in awe:

Rejoice, enlightener of those in the darkness of unbelief.
Rejoice, Thou who didst follow Thy people to the farthest East and West.
Rejoice, fountain of miracles poured out by God.
Rejoice, Ioving chastiser of those who have gone astray.
Rejoice, speedy comfort to those who repent of their sins.
Rejoice, support of those who go on the right path.
Rejoice, O holy Hierarch John, wonderworker of the latter times.

Kontakion 5

Thou wast manifest as a vehicle of God’s power to stop the destructive forces of fallen nature, O holy Hierarch, preserving Thy people on the island from the deadly wind and storm by Thy prayer and the sign of the Cross. So, preserve us also who cry out in wonder unto God:
Alleluia.

Ikos 5

All who have trusted in Thy help in desperate circumstances and adversities have found deliverance, O bold intercessor before the Throne of God. Therefore, we too do place our hope in Thee to protect us in dangers by Thy prayers before God as we call out to Thee:

Rejoice, Thou who didst stop the powers of nature from doing harm to Thy flock.
Rejoice, Thou who providest by Thy prayer for all in need.
Rejoice, inexhaustible bread for the hungry.
Rejoice, abundant wealth for those who live in poverty.
Rejoice, consolation for those in sorrow.
Rejoice, quick uplifting for those Who have fallen.
Rejoice, O holy Hierarch John, wonderworker of the latter times.

Kontakion 6

Thou wast manifest as a new Moses, leading his flock out of slavery, O Hierarch John. Do deliver us also from slavery to sins and the enemies of God as we cry out to God:
Alleluia.

Ikos 6

Thou didst do the impossible and persuade the authorities of this world to have pity on Thy flock, O good shepherd. Do pray for us now that we may live in peace and quiet, saving our souls as we gratefully cry to Thee:

Rejoice, helper of all who call upon Thee in faith.
Rejoice, Thou who deliverest from death and disaster.
Rejoice, Thou who preservest from lies and slander.
Rejoice, preserver of the innocent from bonds.
Rejoice, Thou who foilest the attacks of the unrighteous.
Rejoice, destroyer of lies and exalter of truth.
Rejoice, O holy Hierarch John, wonderworker of the latter times.

Kontakion 7

O lover of the saints of East and West, Thou didst restore to the Orthodox Church the saints of the West, of lands which had fallen away from the truth. Now with these saints Thou dost pray for us to God as we on earth cry out to God:
Alleluia.

Ikos 7

O fervent venerator of the holy Hierarchs of Gaul, Thou wast manifest in the latter times as one of them, exhorting Thy flock to preserve the same Orthodox faith that they confessed, and astonishing the peoples of the West by Thy holy life. Now preserve us in that same faith as we cry out to Thee:

Rejoice, new Martin by Thy miracles and ascetic feats.
Rejoice, new Germanus by Thy confession of the Orthodox faith.
Rejoice, new Hilary by Thy divine theology.
Rejoice, new Gregory by Thy love for God's saints.
Rejoice, new Faustus by Thy gentle love and monastic fervor.
Rejoice, new Caesarius by Thy firm yet loving rule of the Church of God.
Rejoice, O holy Hierarch John, wonderworker of the latter Times .

Kontakion 8

At the end of Thy life, O holy Hierarch, Thou wast called to the New World, to offer there Thy witness of ancient Christianity and to suffer persecution for Thy righteousness, thus perfecting Thy soul for heaven. Now marveling at Thy patience and long-suffering, we all cry out to God:
Alleluia.

Ikos 8

O laborer of Christ's vineyard who knew no rest even at the end of Thy much-toiling life, help us now in our labors as we strive to be faithful to Christ, crying out in praise to Thee:

Rejoice, Thou who didst endure to the end and so attain salvation
Rejoice, Thou who wast deemed worthy to die before the icon the Mother of God.
Rejoice, Thou who didst keep Thy faith and courage in the midst of unjust persecution.
Rejoice, Thou who didst labor to the end for Thy flock and meet death sitting as a hierarch.
Rejoice, Thou Who didst return through the air to be buried amidst the flock.
Rejoice, Thou who workest Wonders for those who come to Thy Sepulchre with faith and love.
Rejoice, O holy Hierarch John wonderworker of the latter times.

Kontakion 9

All angel-kind rejoiced at Thy soul's ascent to their celestial home marveling at the wonders Thou didst perform on earth through the action of the Holy Spirit to whom we sing:
Alleluia.


Ikos 9

Orators find it impossible to describe Thy life of sanctity with their many and eloquent words, O righteous John for Thou didst become a living house for the power of the ineffable God. Yet, unable to fall silent at the wonder shown to our age of feeble faith, we glorify Thee:

Rejoice, divine palace where from the counsel of the Good King is given.
Rejoice, small and humble abode containing the spacious beauty of angels mansions.
Rejoice, Thou who didst gain a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
Rejoice, infirmary wherein all manner of diseases are divinely healed.
Rejoice, closet wherein Thy holy labor of prayer was hidden.
Rejoice, blessed temple of the Holy Spirit.
Rejoice, O holy Hierarch John, wonderworker of the latter times.

Kontakion 10

Wishing to save the world, the Saviour of all hath sent a new saint among us and through him hath called us out of the dark recesses of sin. Hearing this call to repentance, the unworthy ones in turn cry out to God:
Alleluia.

Ikos 10

Thou art a wall sheltering us from adversity, O Hierarch John, for through Thy heavenly intercessions we are delivered from the attacks of demonic passions and from afflictions which beset us on earth. Before Thy firm support of prayer, we cry with faith:

Rejoice, sight to the blinded.
Rejoice, strength and life to those on the bed of death.
Rejoice, God-revealed advice to those in doubt and confusion.
Rejoice, refreshing water to those perishing in the heat of sorrow .
Rejoice, Ioving father to the lonely and abandoned.
Rejoice, holy teacher of those who seek the Truth.
Rejoice, O holy Hierarch John, wonderworker of the latter times.

Kontakion 11

Thy life was a hymn to the Most Holy Trinity, surpassing others in thought, word and deed, O most blessed John. For with much wisdom Thou didst explain the precepts of the true Faith, reaching us to sing with faith, hope and love to the one God in Trinity:
Alleluia.

Ikos 11

We see Thee as a radiant lamp of Orthodoxy amidst the darkness of ignorance, O God-chosen pastor of Christ's flock, our Father John, For even after Thy repose Thou dost speak the truth to the ignorant and give instruction to those who seek guidance and to all who cry to Thee:

Rejoice, radiance of divine wisdom to those in ignorance. Rejoice, rainbow of quiet joys for the meek.
Rejoice, thunder to stubborn sinners.
Rejoice, lightning of the zeal of God.
Rejoice, rain of God's dogmas.
Rejoice, shower of theological thoughts.
Rejoice, O holy Hierarch John, wonderworker of the latter times.

Kontakion 12

Grace hath been poured out in the last days upon us all. Beholding this grace come forth from a holy hierarch who once did walk among us, let us receive it with reverence and thanksgiving, crying to God:
Alleluia.

Ikos 12

Singing in praise to God, the heavenly choir of saints rejoiceth that He hath not forsaken the fallen and unbelieving world, but hath manifested His almighty power in Thee, his meek and humble servant. O blessed John, with all the saints we greet Thee and give honor to Thee:

Rejoice, new star of righteousness shining in heaven’s firmament.
Rejoice, new prophet who wast sent before the final unleashing of evil.
Rejoice, new Jonah warning all of the wages of sin.
Rejoice, new Baptist drawing all to a life of prayer and repentance.
Rejoice, new Paul suffering to preach the gospel in the spirit of truth,
Rejoice, new apostle whose miracles instill in us faith and awe.
Rejoice, O holy Hierarch John, wonderworker of the latter times.

Kontakion 13 (3 times)

O holy and most wondrous Hierarch John, consolation for all the sorrowing, accept now our prayerful offering that through Thy prayers to our Lord we may be spared Gehenna and by Thy God-pleasing intercession we may cry eternally:
Alleluia!

Ikos 1

An angel in the flesh wast Thou manifested in the latter times by the grace of God Who ever careth for men. Seeing the beauty of Thy virtues, we Thy children now cry out to Thee.

Rejoice, Thou who didst live in virtue from earliest childhood.
Rejoice, Thou who didst ever live in fear of God and do His Holy will.
Rejoice, Thou who didst manifest the grace of God in numberless virtues.
Rejoice, Thou who didst mystically hear the distant prayers of those in distress.
Rejoice, Thou who wast filled with love for Thy fellow man and didst do all possible for their salvation.
Rejoice, Thou who dost bring joy to all who pray to Thee in faith and love.
Rejoice, O holy Hierarch John, wonderworker of the latter times.

Kontakion 1

Chosen wonderworker and superb servant of Christ. who pourest out in the latter times inexhaustible streams of inspiration and a multitude of miracles. We praise Thee with love, and call out to Thee:
Rejoice, O holy Hierarch John, wonderworker of the latter times.

Prayer to St. John

O beloved Hierarch John, while living amongst us thou didst see the future as if present, distant things as if near the hearts and minds of men as if they were thine own. We know that in this thou wast illumined by God, with Whom thou wast ever in the mystical communion of prayer, and with Whom thou now abidest eternally. As thou once didst hear the mental petitions of thy far-scattered flock even before they could speak to thee, so now hear our prayers and bring them before the Lord. Thou hast gone over unto the life unaging, unto the other world, yet thou art in truth not far from us, for heaven is closer to us than our own souls. Show us who feel frightened and alone the same compassion that thou didst once show to the trembling fatherless ones. Give to us who have fallen into sin, confusion and despair the same stern yet loving instruction that thou didst once give to thy chosen flock. In thee we see the living likeness of our Maker, the living spirit of the Gospel and the foundation of our Faith. In the pure life that thou hast led during our sinful times, we see a model of virtue, a source of instruction and inspiration. Beholding the grace bestowed upon thee, we know that God hath not abandoned His people. It is rather we that hast fallen from Him, and so must regain the likeness of Divinity as thou hast done. Through thine intercession, O blessed one, grant that we may increase our striving toward our heavenly homeland, setting our affections on things above, laboring in prayer and virtue, waging war against the attacks of our fallen nature. Invoke the mercy of God, that we may one day join thee in His Kingdom. For our deepest wish is to live forever with Him, with the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and ever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

[Olga]

The reason for the absence of icons of St John is that he is currently recognised as "locally" glorified by ROCOR, though, through word of mouth, popular devotion to him has spread to Greece, Romania, and, of course, Serbia, and Western Europe. The MP is at present considering recognising his glorification, and if this comes to pass (I'm sure it will!), then St John will join the ranks of saints officialy venerated by the whole Russian church, not just its ROCOR arm.

There is nothing invalid about local glorification; there are countless saints who only appear in local church lists, but are, nevertheless, perfectly worthy of veneration. There are saints on the Greek calendar (such as St Aristidis of Athens) who do not appear on Russian or Romanian calendars, and Russian saints who, likewise, do not appear anywhere else. The St Herman's Calendar has done much to bridge the gaps, in that it mentions saints of the Greek, Cypriot, British and Western European calendars, as well as its "core" Russian and Serbian base.

[Andreas Moran]

This usefully cross-refers to the thread, 'Infallibility of canonisations'.

[Kosta]

I believe in one of the articles concerning ROCOR saints, the MP will /does accept St John Maximovitch as a universally accepted saint and there is no need to review his canonizations, as some other saints glorified by ROCOR.

I actually dont find it odd that no icon in Russia is readily available of the saint. As a greek-american i doubt an icon would be readily available of a greek-american saint (if there was one), unless he was born and made a name for himself in Greece like Elder Ephraim before coming here.

[Olga]

Interestingly, Kosta, there is a growing veneration of non-Greek saints such as St Seraphim of Sarov and St Luke of Simferopol in Greece and other countries outside of Russia and Ukraine (Simferopol is in the Crimea).

[Anthony Stokes]

I believe in one of the articles concerning ROCOR saints, the MP will /does accept St John Maximovitch as a universally accepted saint and there is no need to review his canonizations, as some other saints glorified by ROCOR.

St. John Maximovitch is also recognized and commemorated by the OCA.

Subdeacon Anthony

[Olga]

Pardon me again for being a "grumpy old woman", but saints should not be referred to by their "worldly" surnames, even more so if they are of monastic rank. While it is very common to refer to this saint as St John Maximovitch, his proper title is St John of Shanghai and/or San Francisco. The terms the Wonderworker and, less commonly, Apostle to the West are also used, quite correctly.

St John, baptised as Michael, was given the name John at tonsure, to commemorate a paternal ancestor of his, St John of Tobolsk. This has led to the rather peculiar naming of these saints in some calendars as St John Maximovitch I and St John Maximovitch II. Quite unnecessary.



St. John Maximovitch is also recognized and commemorated by the OCA.



Anthony, it appears the OCA, according to its online calndar, commemorates St John of Tobolsk only, not St John of Shanghai.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Anthony, it appears the OCA, according to its online calndar, commemorates St John of Tobolsk only, not St John of Shanghai.

I am not sure that is quite right. It would seem strange not to commemorate St. John and yet have a monastery dedicated to him. I'm sure the monastery commemorates him so technically he IS commemorated in the OCA.

Herman the grumpy old Pooh

[Anthony Stokes]

Anthony, it appears the OCA, according to its online calndar, commemorates St John of Tobolsk only, not St John of Shanghai.

That is very strange, because the wall calendar that the OCA puts out every year has St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco commemorated on July 2nd. Also, as Herman mentioned, there is an OCA monastery and a few parishes I believe that have him as a patron.

Subdeacon Anthony

[Misha]

Official recognition is not such an important issue.
For example, new martyr and wonderworker,st Ephraim of Nea Makri has not been yet officialy included in the catalogues.
Great Martyr Fanourios was unknown until 20th century,but now he is very popular among the greeks because He answers very quickly to the prayers,especially for lost things.
(try Him ,He is UNBELIEVABLE! :) )
St.Luke the surgeon becomes more and more popular in Greece because of his many miracles.
St.John of San Francisco is a God's gift to His Church.
Maybe some officers think that st.John's recognition (or archb.Philaret's later)is a kind of confession that their stance against ROCOR ,all these years, was wrong .

[Andreas Moran]

I thought St Ephraim of Nea Makri was in the Greek calendar of saints. But the newly-revealed SS Raphael, Nikolaos and Irene of Mytyline definitely are. Do such revealed saints have to be formally canonised?

[Michael Stickles]

Anthony, it appears the OCA, according to its online calndar, commemorates St John of Tobolsk only, not St John of Shanghai.

Must be an oversight in the "Lives of the Saints" section, since the daily scripture readings for July 2 (http://www.oca.org/Reading.asp?SID=25&ID=&M=7&D=2) on the OCA site do list "Repose of St. John (Maximovitch) of Shanghai and San Francisco" among the commemorations for that day. I emailed the OCA web team to point out the oversight.

Normally, when I see a saint's name written with their "worldly" name included, that name is in parentheses, as in the OCA listing for St. John mentioned above. It's not always "worldly" names, either, as in the listing for "St. Boris (in Holy Baptism Michael), Equal of the Apostles, Prince and Baptizer of Bulgaria". Not sure how "correct" or "incorrect" that form is.

In Christ,
Mike

[Olga]

It's not always "worldly" names, either, as in the listing for "St. Boris (in Holy Baptism Michael), Equal of the Apostles, Prince and Baptizer of Bulgaria". Not sure how "correct" or "incorrect" that form is.



The listing of a saint's former name along with their baptismal name is quite correct. While many saints who converted, or who became monastics are generally known by their baptismal or monastic names, there are many others who are known by their former name. Examples would be Sts Vladimir and Olga (baptised Basil and Helen), as well as St Boris mentioned above.

My "beef" was with the inclusion of surnames in the appellation of saints, not with pre- or post-conversion first names or monastic names. During the proskomedia and liturgical commemoration of the dead, only the first name is used, never surnames. The only other identifiers may be "child", or clerical or monastic rank.

[Michael Stickles]

The listing of a saint's former name along with their baptismal name is quite correct. While many saints who converted, or who became monastics are generally known by their baptismal or monastic names, there are many others who are known by their former name. Examples would be Sts Vladimir and Olga (baptised Basil and Helen), as well as St Boris mentioned above.

My "beef" was with the inclusion of surnames in the appellation of saints, not with pre- or post-conversion first names or monastic names. During the proskomedia and liturgical commemoration of the dead, only the first name is used, never surnames. The only other identifiers may be "child", or clerical or monastic rank.

Ah. So, if I've got it, then for St. John, not only "St. John Maximovitch" but also "St. John (Maximovitch) of Shanghai and San Francisco" would not be correct; but "St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco" would. Although, would that be only liturgically, or for any usage? I'm wondering if the parenthetical surname was used in the OCA listing so that those who know him primarily as "St. John Maximovitch" can figure out who's being referred to.

[Olga]

Ah. So, if I've got it, then for St. John, not only "St. John Maximovitch" but also "St. John (Maximovitch) of Shanghai and San Francisco" would not be correct; but "St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco" would.

Yes, this is exactly right.


Although, would that be only liturgically, or for any usage?

Any usage. It is also incorrect usage to refer to a living bishop or monastic by a worldly surname, yet, sadly, this is not always the case.


I'm wondering if the parenthetical surname was used in the OCA listing so that those who know him primarily as "St. John Maximovitch" can figure out who's being referred to.

That's very likely the reasoning, but would it not have been just as easy for the list to refer to him in the proper way? An irony of the modern tendency to use surnames for bishops, monastics and saints (living or otherwise) is that it seems to have taken hold in the last century or so, coinciding with the age of photography.

Surely in the photographic age, there would be even less reason to use a surname, as the person's physical appearance would be better known and documented, and would also be invaluable as an iconographer's resource. In past centuries, many bishops and higher clergy did have portraits or miniatures painted of themselves, particularly in Russia, but the same could not be said of countless saints of priestly rank, or layman-saints.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear friends,

Just as a minor clarification: the matter of not referring to worldly surnames / family names actually relates not to the identity of an individual as a bishop or a saint, but as a monk. Monks are given new names when they enter into the monastic life, and thereafter it is incorrect to refer to them either by their former names or their family names (with the caveats already noted above). This practice seems to have been extended to all those who have been canonised by the Church, but I'm not certain of any actual proscription against the usage of a family name with respect to, for example, a married / non-monastic saint. Any pointers, Olga or others?

As an aside, the practice of including a family name in brackets seems to have arisen as a practical measure, for referring to individuals bearing the same monastic name in the same see over time. E.g., over the years their might be quite a few 'Bishop Nicholas'es in a see, so this gives a way to distinguish in technical writing. But the expansion of the practice into common spoken usage is certainly a misuse.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Anthony]

Just as a minor clarification: the matter of not referring to worldly surnames / family names actually relates not to the identity of an individual as a bishop or a saint, but as a monk. Monks are given new names when they enter into the monastic life, and thereafter it is incorrect to refer to them either by their former names or their family names (with the caveats already noted above). This practice seems to have been extended to all those who have been canonised by the Church, but I'm not certain of any actual proscription against the usage of a family name with respect to, for example, a married / non-monastic saint. Any pointers, Olga or others?

I was wondering about saints like Nicholas Cabasilas (also Gregory Palamas, who was actually a monk). But I don't know whether these were really surnames in the modern sense.

[Anthony Stokes]

As an aside, the practice of including a family name in brackets seems to have arisen as a practical measure, for referring to individuals bearing the same monastic name in the same see over time. E.g., over the years their might be quite a few 'Bishop Nicholas'es in a see, so this gives a way to distinguish in technical writing. But the expansion of the practice into common spoken usage is certainly a misuse.
INXC, Dcn Matthew


I agree that practicality is at the heart of the matter, at least with respect to using a bishop's surname. Whenever I set music to Archbishop Dmitri's English translation, I (as well as the Archbishop's cathedral choir director) list the translation by Archbishop Dmitri (Royster). Even though most people know which Archbishop Dmitri has done the translation, there may be a future Bishop Dmitri that does translation work as well, and it may be important for people to know the difference. Archbishop Hilarion of Vienna does the same himself when composing musical works.

It is much more practical and less cluttered to write Trans. Archbishop Dmitri (Royster) than Trans. Archbishop Dmitri of Dallas and the South (OCA, 1978-).

Subdeacon Anthony

[Michael Stickles]

I was wondering about saints like Nicholas Cabasilas (also Gregory Palamas, who was actually a monk). But I don't know whether these were really surnames in the modern sense.

I did a quick search, and the Orthodox England website says that Palamas was indeed St. Gregory's surname (which they mention as the one exception they know to the rule that saints do not have surnames, only titles). However, it does appear that "Cabasilas" (or "Kavasilas") is St. Nicholas' surname, so that would be another exception. St. Nicholas is an interesting case, as he appears to be best-known for his Commentary on the Divine Liturgy and Life in Christ, which were written as a layman; but he may have become a monk at some point. Indeed, some (not all) of the accounts of him I looked up say he later entered a monastery and eventually succeeded his uncle as Archbishop of Thessalonica, but the most complete account I saw only said "his name was put forward as a candidate for the patriarchal chair", with nothing about whether he ever occupied it, and says he resided in the "monastery of Mangana, as a layman or as a monk" (getting complete and consistent information on the saints is sometimes a challenging task).

During my Googling, it seemed like many sites, when including a saint's surname as part of his/her name, follow the practice of putting it in parentheses for clergy and monastics (except for St. Gregory Palamas), but using it normally with saints who were laymen.

In Christ,
Mike

[Matthew Namee]

It is much more practical and less cluttered to write Trans. Archbishop Dmitri (Royster) than Trans. Archbishop Dmitri of Dallas and the South (OCA, 1978-).
There's also the issue of a bishop occupying multiple sees in his lifetime. Abp Dmitri is now bishop of Dallas, but he has previously been bishop of other places (at least Boston and Berkeley, I believe). An example of another problem is this: the OCA's bishop of South Canaan is Tikhon, not to be confused with the retired OCA bishop of San Francisco (also Tikhon).

About St. John specifically, I am endlessly confused by the fact that he was actually one of two Russian archbishops in San Francisco named John who served at the same time! Archbishop John (Shahovsky) was the Metropolia's archbishop of San Francisco from 1950-1973 and again from 1975-1979, while St. John held the same title for ROCOR from 1962-1966. Incidentally, if you want to be technical about it, why isn't he "St. John of Shanghai, Paris, Brussels, and San Francisco"?

I understand why surnames are dropped, but there's an obvious practical benefit to their use.

[Olga]

Any pointers, Olga or others?



Please pardon my presumption, but I can come up with two:

- liturgically, commemorations of saints (layman or monastic) never use surnames. Regarding St Gregory Palamas, I recall one reference to Palamas being the name of a monastery in northern Greece, from which he took this title, but I could be wrong.

- it is only in the last century or less that surnames have appeared in church calendars. The calendar of St Herman lists tens of thousands of saints, and surnames only appear for those of recent vintage. The overwhelming number of listed saints are quite happily distinguishable with various traditional appellations, be they geographic, physically descriptive, or reflecting a virtue. Why the "necessity" all of a sudden to use surnames? Let us not forget that surnames as we know them began to appear in about the 12th-13thC.

[Michael Stickles]

Regarding St Gregory Palamas, I recall one reference to Palamas being the name of a monastery in northern Greece, from which he took this title, but I could be wrong.

That gives you just as much evidence for that, as I have for it being a surname. Ah well, won't be the first time my curiosity is frustrated by conflicting and unresolvable accounts...


- it is only in the last century or less that surnames have appeared in church calendars. The calendar of St Herman lists tens of thousands of saints, and surnames only appear for those of recent vintage. The overwhelming number of listed saints are quite happily distinguishable with various traditional appellations, be they geographic, physically descriptive, or reflecting a virtue. Why the "necessity" all of a sudden to use surnames? Let us not forget that surnames as we know them began to appear in about the 12th-13thC.

It probably has a lot to do with the more recent spread of Orthodoxy in the West, especially America, and the differing way personal names are used in Eastern and Western societies (As an aside, I ran across a fascinating little article called "What's in a Name? (http://www.rogerdarlington.co.uk/useofnames.html)", about "The varying use of first and family names in different countries and cultures"). Common Western usage treats the surname as the identifier (so, for me, "Stickles" identifies which "Mike" I am). An oriental friend of mine from college said it was the other way around in his society - the first name(s) identified which person of a given surname you were (it would be as if "Mike" identified which "Stickles" I was).

Parenthetical surnames are becoming institutionalized in some quarters - OrthodoxWiki's style manual (http://orthodoxwiki.org/OrthodoxWiki:Style_Manual_(People)) calls for inclusion of surnames in parentheses for monastics, clergy and saints when naming articles, except in cases where a surname is not known or did not exist, or the person is most commonly known by a different name.


- liturgically, commemorations of saints (layman or monastic) never use surnames.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the liturgical use of a surname for anyone, not just saints, monastics or clergy, is improper. I know that in the prayers I've heard during services, when we pray for the sick or reposed, I've never heard anything like "the servant of God Joseph Jones;" it's always "the servant of God Joseph," or whoever. Same for prayers for the catechumens, commemoration of the newly illumined, etc.

In Christ,
Mike

[Yuri Zharikov]

Notwithstanding the recent rapprochement between MP and ROCOR, nowhere in Moscow could I find an icon of St John Maximovich.
Andreas, I was pretty sure that the Church of the New Martyrs in Butovo, where you where this winter, has had an altar consecrated in honour of St. John and an icon with a fraction of his relics was delivered there last May - but maybe I got something wrong. There certanly has been a numbers of such icons brought to Russia by ROCOR deleations over the past few years. In my travels to Russian monasteries I often came across small paper icons of St. John in private cells and pilgrim dorms, where I presume they were left by pilgrims from outside Russia.

[Andreas Moran]

Dear Yuri,

I was at Butovo at Easter time. We had a good look around and got a conducted tour by one of the staff but I didn't notice anything about St John; Butovo though would seem a surprising place to honour him. We went to a lot of icon shops and stalls in churches and monasteries but never saw anything of St John. I'll have another look next time I'm in Moscow.

[Matthew Namee]

A few things about surnames (and perhaps this warrants its own thread)...

First of all, nobody is talking about using secular names for monastics, such as "St. Michael Maximovitch." We call him by his monastic name, John. But in his case especially, you have a saint who is clearly associated with many locales. I doubt this was very common in past centuries, to have a saint occupying numerous sees and not being obviously associated with any single one of them. He's often called "St. John of Shanghai" or "of San Francisco" or "of Shanghai and San Francisco," but as I said earlier, what about Paris or Brussels? In the case of St. John, the use of his last name better and more efficiently conveys his identity. If I were visiting Paris, I would feel silly to refer to him as "St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco," but I would feel equally odd to refer to him as "St. John of Paris."

But this brings up the whole question of names -- what is their purpose? On the most basic level, they help us to distinguish between individuals. In past times, the lists of Orthodox saints available in any given region have been quite limited; there was no such thing as the St. Herman calendar centuries ago. The Greeks commemorated virtually no Russian saints; hence they could call one, "St. John the Russian." As for the Russians, they had "St. Maxim the Greek" and "St. Anthony the Roman." In all cases, the titles were used to identify the person. And this is all that surnames do; they tell us which John it is to whom we are referring. And in the case of the St. John who is the subject of this thread, his surname makes more sense than the title of his see, since that changed so many times. Please, let's not be legalistic about names. I'm not about to say, "St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco" every time I want to talk about St. John (to say nothing of the fact that, as I said before, it's an incomplete title anyway).

I really love Archbishop John.
Which Archbishop John?
Archbishop John of San Francisco.
Which Archbishop John of San Francisco?
The Russian one.
Which Russian one?
The one who was there in the 1960s.
Which one who was there in the 1960s?
What do you mean which one?
Well, Maximovitch or Shahovsky?

[Anthony]

It probably has a lot to do with the more recent spread of Orthodoxy in the West, especially America, and the differing way personal names are used in Eastern and Western societies (As an aside, I ran across a fascinating little article called "What's in a Name? (http://www.rogerdarlington.co.uk/useofnames.html)", about "The varying use of first and family names in different countries and cultures"). Common Western usage treats the surname as the identifier (so, for me, "Stickles" identifies which "Mike" I am). An oriental friend of mine from college said it was the other way around in his society - the first name(s) identified which person of a given surname you were (it would be as if "Mike" identified which "Stickles" I was).



Interesting. In some societies it is also your father's name that acts as the identifier. I remember in a remote part of Greece being asked not "who" I was but "whose" I was - i.e. "whose son". I have had similar experiences in parts of Scotland too.

[Aristibule]

Back to the original post - news from the Holy Synod of All Russia in Moscow this week says that St. John the Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco is now recognized as a saint of All Russia, and that the New Martyrs will be further investigated as well. (This comes along with news of the appointment of obediences to the bishop-elects of ROCOR.)

[Olga]

Wonderful news about St John! but the New Martyrs and Confessors have for some years now been recognised as saints by the MP. There are several icons painted of them which have arisen from within Russia, with the imprimatur of the MP, as well as a treasury of resources on several Russian websites, the most comprehensive one being www.fond.ru (http://www.fond.ru), which certainly has the blessing of Patriarch Alexei.

[Ryan]

There is actually an Antiochian parish near me with an icon of St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco. Am I right in considering this very unusual?

[Jonathan Michael]

Specifically regarding St. John, no, it's not unusual as he is an immensely popular saint, and a true "saint of America". My parish in Beijing - which is under the MP - carries a number of icons of St. John. I got one from there a month ago, on the day when part of his relics were permanantly transferred here to Beijing (with other parts going to Hong Kong). That was a very special day, as he is my patron saint!

[RichardWorthington]

Notwithstanding the recent rapprochement between MP and ROCOR, nowhere in Moscow could I find an icon of St John Maximovich.

I bought mine at the airport near Kiev. But it is true, I had not seen his icon elsewhere.

As a matter of fact, people were venerating St John Maximovich before MP and ROCOR were re-united.

I was once sent a piece of his cloak by the St Herman of Alaska Brotherhood. When in a church in Moscow I showed this to someone, and he venerated it.

Richard

[Nina]

The (ROCOR) Cathedral 'St. John the Baptist' in Washington, DC, has a beautiful icon of Saint John Maximovich and his rason encased underneath the icon.

[Andreas Moran]

A large, new Russian Orthodox church (MP) has just opened here in Colchester. It is dedicated to St John. The iconostasis has a very beautiful icon of St John, painted (like the other icons) in Moldova.

[Jonathan Michael]

Wow, that's great. I hope to go there the next time I am in England, as I think I'm right in thinking that Colchester is reasonably close to St. John the Baptist's Monastery, in Maldon.

[Andreas Moran]

The monastery is about 12 miles south-west from the centre of Colchester.