Witchcraft

[Andreas Moran]

Instinctively, I would avoid any discussion of witchcraft and witches. However, I have heard so often that in Russia witchcraft is very widespread. In newspapers in Moscow, the classified advertisements sections are full of all sorts of ads for 'healing', 'counselling', 'divination', and the like. Some of those offering these services claim to be Orthodox! It is commonly accepted, even by people I know, that there are women who use witchcraft for various ends including gaining influence over people. It occurred to me that witchcraft might be common in parts of eastern Europe as well. As Orthodox Christians, we obviously treat witchcraft as at best foolish and at worst diabolical. But why should it be rife in a country like Russia? And can it really be dangerous for those targeted by witches - can witches actually gain influence over others?

[Andrew]

Instinctively, I would avoid any discussion of witchcraft and witches. However, I have heard so often that in Russia witchcraft is very widespread. In newspapers in Moscow, the classified advertisements sections are full of all sorts of ads for 'healing', 'counselling', 'divination', and the like. Some of those offering these services claim to be Orthodox! It is commonly accepted, even by people I know, that there are women who use witchcraft for various ends including gaining influence over people. It occurred to me that witchcraft might be common in parts of eastern Europe as well. As Orthodox Christians, we obviously treat witchcraft as at best foolish and at worst diabolical. But why should it be rife in a country like Russia? And can it really be dangerous for those targeted by witches - can witches actually gain influence over others?

Witches can gain influence over others. Most people who practice this kind of stuff (or the occult in general) end up going crazy or dying under strange circumstances.

When people are desperate for money and basic necessities, I think they are willing to get involved in crazy things, especially if they are prone to superstition. In poor Hispanic neighborhoods throughout the US you'll find little witch doctor shops, in Louisiana and the South you'll find hoodoo-voodoo places in poor ghettoes, and other such things.

Shamanism and witchcraft are common throughout the world, especially in poor traditional cultures, I think. There's probably a lot of interesting anthropological/sociological studies on this sort of thing. It is very wrong and destructive.

[Paul Cowan]

Santeria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santer%C3%ADa) is alive and well in Texas for sure. There are many misconceptins about this faith but I think alot of this is from the practioners themselves. Not really knowing what they are doing and being self led or improvising what they see in the media or from bad second hand knowledge.

It is harmful and wrong for sure, but I think many are just looking for truth anywhere they can find anything that will help them make sence of this world. The fact they incorporate Christianity to whatever extreme or not only goes to show they were never taught the proper understanding of it in the first place. How man of us have taken an idea or thought and run with it not really knowing what we knew.

One of many examples for me would be calculus.

Paul

[Effie Ganatsios]

Instinctively, I would avoid any discussion of witchcraft and witches. However, I have heard so often that in Russia witchcraft is very widespread. In newspapers in Moscow, the classified advertisements sections are full of all sorts of ads for 'healing', 'counselling', 'divination', and the like. Some of those offering these services claim to be Orthodox! It is commonly accepted, even by people I know, that there are women who use witchcraft for various ends including gaining influence over people. It occurred to me that witchcraft might be common in parts of eastern Europe as well. As Orthodox Christians, we obviously treat witchcraft as at best foolish and at worst diabolical. But why should it be rife in a country like Russia? And can it really be dangerous for those targeted by witches - can witches actually gain influence over others?

Andreas there are lot of advertisements in newspapers and commercials on the TV for people who can tell you your future, etc. Is this witchcraft or just a way for some people to make money out of other naive people? And what about all these astrologists who tell us what we can expect in the future. If foolish people believe these people and have money to spare, that's their problem. The worst thing about this phenomenon is that these people are taken so seriously by all these talk show hosts. All the morning TV entertainment shows have their own astrologist to tell us our immediate future.

And in Greece we also have our women who read the Greek coffee grounds but this is just fun and provides quite a few laughs when friends get together for morning coffee. Greek coffee has thick grounds that form lots of images when you turn your demitasse coffee cup upside down and allow the grounds to dry.

Some people here also believe in Magia/witchcraft. For example they believe that some people have the ability to cast spells. There is a lot of this in the north east of Greece where there are some Muslim areas.

What is more disturbing is that some people are attracted to those who are seriously involved in the worship of the devil.
I don't know how widespread this kind of worship is in the world today. There were some instances of it a few years ago here but you don't really hear anything nowadays.

Effie

[Nina]

Andreas,

Schemanun Macaria (from Russia) speaks a lot about this in the book written about her. She also suffered from the women who practiced magic. And the saints and Panagia did not visit sometime because -as Schemanun Macaria said- the people who practiced witchcraft polluted the place. It is very interesting to read.

In the book about St. Andrew the Fool-for-Christ, we also read what he says about magic. He comments to his spiritual son, after something happened to a very pious Orthodox woman, who went to a sorcerer for finding solution about her philandering husband. St. Andrew explains in that book even what happens and how the sorcerers and demons pollute and defile everything in such occasions.

We pray to St. Cyprian and St. Justina for protection against sorcery and witchcraft. As we know St. Justina fought the evil influence, about which she was unaware, through the power of prayer, Holy Cross and by participation in the mysteries.

Also as we know Julian the Apostate went three times to the sorcerer before he could meet with the demon. Because every time Julian the Apostate went to the cemetery and the demons started appearing he got so frightened that he couldn't help but sign himself with the cross. Such is the power of the grace acquired at baptism that although Julian was there to sell his soul for the emperor's title, the mercy of God and the grace were still helping him. Before the third time, the sorcerer told Julian to kill a child and because of that his hands were defiled because of that grave sin and the grace withdrew and he met the demons and sold his soul, the poor thing.

Therefore although these evil things have power, God does not abandon us and the Mother Church provides us with the best protection.

[Cyprian (Humphrey)]

From what I can tell (keep in mind that I am not Russian, nor have I ever been to Russia) is that Russia is coming out of a spiritual vacuum of sorts. All sorts of weird things are taking hold and manifesting. Protestant Sectarianism, various forms of witchcraft, New Age, even Neo-Nazism (do they know that Hitler threw Slavs into the gas chambers as much as Jews, Romani, and any one else he thought was inferior?) and the list goes on...

Witchcraft is wrong. Just as wrong as any false religion. It has a rather bad rap from the media involving invoking demons and spirits to manipulate things, but in a sense they are no different than say, Hindus who would invoke various "gods" to similarly get what they want. We know from the Bible that all non-Christian deities are actually demons in disguise. Therefore, any time a non-Christian prays to their deities or deity, they are actually invoking demons. I'm not trying to defend witchcraft, but just try to keep in mind the context. It is generally the remnants (or more often than not, fanciful recreations) of Pre-Christian shamanistic religions that existed throughout Europe.

And, since people tend to grab the first thing that seems "supernatural" to them when looking for that elusive "something more to life than the material", this will always attract people.

It always did puzzle me though that the Old Testament prescribed the death penalty for witches. Why would they be treated more harshly than anyone else following, say, Zoroastrianism or the worship of Ba'al? I have a theory about this and perhaps some of the more learned people here could let me know if I'm way off.

The Greek word used in the Bible for witchcraft is "pharmakia". That's the root word for the English term "pharmacy". I haven't got a clue about the Hebrew - if someone does know, feel free to pipe up! The idea seems that the Biblical term is referring to a sort of shamanistic person who would dispense herbal remedies and potions. Some of this is still used today as the basis for scientific pharmacology, as well as the booming "herbal" and "natural" remedies (what really is the difference between taking an Aspirin and taking a Willow Bark Extract tablet?). But, presumbly witches (or "pharmakia") in the ancient world would also dispense potions for abortions (herbal concotions that would cause miscarriages) and also the "disincentivising" ones enemies (ie. poisons for assasinations). It would stand to reason then that the Biblical mandate for the extermination of witches is due to them being, by their very vocation, accomplises to murder.

Anybody know if I'm right or wrong about that?

[Effie Ganatsios]

Cyprian, the modern day word for witchcraft in Greek is μα - για/ magia and originates from the three Magi who visited the baby Christ. This is a very old word, Greek magos meaning sorcerer and the Persian word Magus.

The word φαρμακειο is the Greek word for pharmacy/chemist.

Pharmakon = poison, drug, potion

Pharmacy = where drugs are prepared (used to be).

Pharmako also means the medicine or drugs the chemist gives us.

I don't see any connection to witchcraft except perhaps for the word potion as in love potion etc. that a witch might give someone who believes in witchcraft.

In response to the last two paragraphs of your message, Cyprian, I think it's a shame that the Wise Old Women of the past were regarded as witches in some European countries - not Greece -when all most of them did was use herbs to relieve various ailments.

I believe there is a big difference between these women and those that Jesus warns us against.

Effie

[Cyprian (Humphrey)]

Thanks Effie.

Yeah, I could have my linguistic info wrong. I was going off the top of my head from what I remembered from my college days (which were a while ago now!).

But, I agree that herbal healers got a "bad rap" in history. It may not have been universal however, but there were definitely those that would do harm, if the price was high enough. Sadly, there still is that tendency in the medical world, with our modern version of euthanasia and physician assisted suicides. I can see that there is a place for unplugging the machines and letting nature take it's course (they had to do that with my Mom), but arbitralily deciding that your life isn't worth living, so a Doctor pumps poison into your veins is insane.

But, that's a topic for another thread! :)

[Effie Ganatsios]

Today's "witches" seem to be the pharmaceutical companies who brazenly advertise their products on TV. They spend more money on commercials than all the e.g. companies that produce sports goods.

I watched a very interesting American documentary on TV last night. It was about the above subject and various doctors and journalists commented on the fact that these commercials have made millions of Americans dependent on prescription drugs. The worse thing of all according to the speakers is that rare diseases are often described as normal and Americans have become a nation of hypochondriacs taking medication that not only does not help but frequently makes them worse. Especially when they have nothing wrong with them in the first place. Their excuse that they are providing a valuable public service by providing information about various medical conditions is false because their only object is to sell their products.

Best sellers are anti depressants, drugs that make you more active, anything to do with your digestive system, and tranquillizers.

Take something to wake up, take something to give you energy, and then take something to allow you to sleep at night. Even 9 year-olds are being targeted. This tells us a lot.


Give me the good old herbal "witches" of the past. Unless they made a mistake and included some hemlock in their herbs, people generally did not die of their potions.

[Alice]

(Right on this page, I just saw an advertisement for 'witchcraft spells' using voodoo, etc.) :(

These are the black arts of the occult and are not to be looked at lightly.
I never knew that these 'arts' still existed until I moved to Athens for the first time back in the 1980's.
People spoke of others having done 'witchcraft'...including the 'knot' (to tie one's life up in knots).
I then saw a documentary on Greece which mentioned that the witches of ancient days still exist.
When I went on a tour of Italy, the tour guide said that there is much witchcraft practiced in southern Italy too.
Also, the withcraft practiced in New Orleans is very bad.

Monastic elders know that this exists, though they say that frequent confession and holy communion will protect you from true harm. They will say special Church prayers for you if you have been the object of this evil and it is creating situations for you which go beyond what is normal.
I wish that the Church of Greece would address this topic more because those who, in their weakness or ignorance, delve into it to satisfy their passions to control and harm another's destiny, and/or their passions of hate, envy, jealousy and covetnous are literally selling their souls to the devil. Infact some of this withcraft and superstitious practices are practiced by church goers!
In the monasteries in the U.S., all such involvement with various occultic practices is outlined as sin, along with other sins for the penitent to contemplate before he or she goes into confession.

I will leave you with one frightening experience I had. I was on an Olympic Airlines flight from Athens to NY. Someone had left a Greek magazine (though I have never seen this particular 'magazine' in any newstand) on the plane, and I picked it up to leaf through. It looked like the typical beauty and fashion woman's type of magazine until I came to a centerfold article titled 'Learn Witchraft with The Witch of Asia Minor'. Out of curiousity I decided to skim over this article to see what this 'mayia' I heard people discuss in Greece was really about (I knew that it was extremely evil, but I wanted to see how they were presenting it)...UNTIL I came to a printed incantation to assure one of business success ...with each line/mantra, it invoked the name of a different demon!!!

I quickly threw it down, and said the Lord's Prayer to rid my photographic memory of anything I saw. I now knew how frightening and scary this witchcraft business really was and why it could wreak havoc on a person's life. I also realized why the soul of the person dabbling would be in so much jeopardy: Once you invite the evil ones or know them by name, they don't like to leave.

LORD HAVE MERCY!

In Christ our Lord and Saviour,
Alice

[Nina]

Alice you are very right that we must not take occultism lightly. Often in lives of saints or their accounts we find stories which confirm that this is the work of the demons and people who have been caught in their net of deceit.

If my grandmother gave me mountain tea when I had a cold, by no means this is witchcraft. So we must not confuse it.

And we have saints and Panagia and most importantly God and the Mysteries of the Church to protect us.

[Misha]

Alice,the book you mention has been written by Mara Meimarides who is an anthropologist and holds a PhD from the Medical School of Athens.
She says that she has discovered an old witch,named Katina and then she wrote the book "The witches of Smyrna",which later became a tv serie.
After that, she wrote another one about practical witchcraft and started a practice as "counsellor" in Athens' center.
She is very clever and capable saleswoman but i doubt if she believes even a word of what she says.