Can the ecumenical patriarchate die out?

[Ryan]

I came across this article from a Roman Catholic website: http://www.insidethevatican.com/newsflash/2006/newsflash-nov28-06.htm

According to the Orthodox layman interviewed, there are only about 5 qualified candidates now in Turkey to become Ecumenical Patriarch when Patriarch Bartholomew reposes. Is this a misrepresentation of the facts? What would happen if the possibility arose of the EP 'dying out'?

[Olga]

I am happy to be corrected on this, but my understanding is that any bishop of appropriate rank who is under the jurisdiction of the EP would be eligible to be elected Patriarch. He does not need to be living in Turkey.

[Alice]

I am happy to be corrected on this, but my understanding is that any bishop of appropriate rank who is under the jurisdiction of the EP would be eligible to be elected Patriarch. He does not need to be living in Turkey.

Dear Olga,

If I am not mistaken, (and I may be, but I am recalling the 'doom and gloom' lecture addressing this topic had from a professor last year at our church), at present, any elected EP needs to be a Turkish born citizen.

Regards,
In Christ,
Alice :)

[Misha]

If I am not mistaken, (and I may be, but I am recalling the 'doom and gloom' lecture addressing this topic had from a professor last year at our church), at present, any elected EP needs to be a Turkish born citizen.



yes,except if he is the "chosen" one,to serve the emperor's will as was the substitute of patriarch Maximos in 1948.

[Kosta]

What Olga means, is that the elected bishop to the ecumenical throne, if he is not a turkish citizen, would simply not reside in Constantinople- but be considered as an exile. All of Orthodoxy would still recognize him as the EP.

[Misha]

In 1948 patriarch Maximos has been accused as "insane"-in fact ,some considered him as "leftist"- and then substituded by Athenagoras who was not a turkish citizen but had the "eulogy" of US administration.
He has flown from US to Constantinople with Harry Truman's presidential airplane.

[Andreas Moran]

I believe Athenagoras was from Epirus. He was nevertheless put on the patriarchal throne and was able to reside in Constantinople through the support of the CIA as Misha indicates.

[Dimitris]

What Olga means, is that the elected bishop to the ecumenical throne, if he is not a turkish citizen, would simply not reside in Constantinople- but be considered as an exile. All of Orthodoxy would still recognize him as the EP.
That would basically be the same like the patriarch of Antiochia, who actually resides in Damascus, Syria.

[Fabio Lins]

And where do you think would be appropriate to locate an exiled Ecumenical Patriarchate? I would favour a mid-town in the U.S. near a big capital.

But wouldn't that lead to multiple claimants either? For certainly the Turkish government would enthrone a person of their choice at the same time and I wouldn't be surprised to see some bishops claiming the title.

[Ryan]

What's the likelihood of a conservative Athonite monk getting the job?

[Robert Hegwood]

Would not an appropriate place be somewhere in geographical proximity within his synod's territory...say like Rhodes, Crete, or Cyprus? Maybe an Athonite monk from Cyprus would make a good choice.

[Kosta]

And where do you think would be appropriate to locate an exiled Ecumenical Patriarchate? I would favour a mid-town in the U.S. near a big capital.

But wouldn't that lead to multiple claimants either? For certainly the Turkish government would enthrone a person of their choice at the same time and I wouldn't be surprised to see some bishops claiming the title.

That wouldnt be a problem. An exiled EP would be elected just like any bishop, thru the Synod. This would mean all the worldwide churches under the EP jurisdiction would easily recognize him. He would further be recognized by the State of Greece since the greek constitution recognizes only the Church of Greece and the EP as having juridiction in Greece. Most likely an exiled EP would reside in one of the territories in Greece which he still has jurisdiction over such as Crete, but most likely though, somewhere in Thrace near the Turkish border (if i remember correctly the EP doesnt have jurisdiction there but has some kind of sharing with the State Church of Greece, when that area reverted to greek control in 1922(?)-and the EP handed it over to the autocephalous church of Greece; known as the 'new territories'.

[Demetrios Galanidis]

Would not an appropriate place be somewhere in geographical proximity within his synod's territory...say like Rhodes, Crete, or Cyprus? Maybe an Athonite monk from Cyprus would make a good choice.

Well...not Cyprus as that is not in his see, but Crete and Mt Athos surely are.

[Andreas Moran]

As are the Dodecanese; he could set up on Rhodes.

[Alice]

...and then all our religious treasures, churches, and reliquaries would probably become the property of the Turkish state...and we would never have claim to them again.

[Demetrios Galanidis]

...and then all our religious treasures, churches, and reliquaries would probably become the property of the Turkish state...and we would never have claim to them again.

The patriarchate can always maintain a 'claim' to them, but they are probably lost already.