The mind in the heart

[Robert Hegwood]

This might have been covered before, if so forgive me.

Theologically I have sense...perhaps a weak one of what it means to bring the mind into the heart...to unite the mind and heart. Pragmatically though have no idea what this is or what it feels like or how to accomplish it.

How does one bring the mind into the heart...what are the signs/symptoms of doing it even if only for a few seconds.

I understand the fathers teach us our mind is scattered and attached to many external things, and that is supposed to be a bad thing to leave it in that state. I understand, to a certain degree about developing a degree of mental discipline, and not letting the mind wander, jump and indulge itself as it wishes...but pragmatically what is it to bring it into the heart? What is my heart? How do I discern it in myself...beyond perhaps fallacious associations with strong emotions?

If you ask me to put a finger in my ear...I know what that is and how to do it...and I have a definite sense of my own mind...my thinking, reasoning, imagining, willing etc. The heart however is still a bit vague and abstract to me....more metaphor than constituent part/aspect, though I know this is a "blindness" on my part, a lack of perception.

So can anyone help me sort this out? What is the heart and how is it recognized...and what is it pragmatically...as a process to bring the mind into the heart? What are we doing and how does it "feel" to make this happen even for a mere moment?

[Paul Cowan]

I can't help any other than to suggest you possibly read "The Way of the Pilgrim" and "Unseen Warfare". There are very good talking points on this in both these books.

[Robert Hegwood]

I've read WoP and much of UW years ago, as well as similar books. They don't quite address (at least as I recall) the specific "angle" of the question I'm asking. WoP has a lot to say about the labor of the Jesus Prayer and UW on repentance, and I know all those things are interwoven...but its that other element...the recognition of the internal dynamics that lead to and accompany bringing the mind into the heart, including the discernment and recognition of what the heart is in relation to the mind.

[James Blackstock]

I've read WoP and much of UW years ago, as well as similar books. They don't quite address (at least as I recall) the specific "angle" of the question I'm asking. WoP has a lot to say about the labor of the Jesus Prayer and UW on repentance, and I know all those things are interwoven...but its that other element...the recognition of the internal dynamics that lead to and accompany bringing the mind into the heart, including the discernment and recognition of what the heart is in relation to the mind.

Good Question Robert! I will watch this thread to see the answers. I want to know more about it too.

Seraphim

[Nina]

Have you read the "A night in the dessert of the Holy Mountain" from Metropolitan Hierotheos? Parts of it are available on the net and linked often here in our forum. The Elder speaks about the matter you ask, Robert.

[Robert Hegwood]

Yes, I've read that too, and was very impressed with it, but if the answer to my specific question is there, it didn't catch my attention the first time through. Perhaps it would help to read it again.

At the moment I'm reading very slowly through Elder Zacharias' Enlargement of the Heart, maybe that will eventually touch upon some of these things.

[Andreas Moran]

Dear Robert,

I wonder if you might find the book 'The Art of Prayer' helpful. The Holy Fathers whose writings appear there, mainly St Theophan the Recluse and St Ignatii Brianchaninov, say something on these lines. The essential requirements for uniting the mind and the heart in prayer are sobriety and attention; these help us to make the heart dead to the world. (Sobriety includes not only abstinence in the way St Philotheos of Sinai describes but also (as Fr Zacharias says) fear of God and mindfulness of death.) We are to control the mind in order to re-collect it from its dispersal among the things of the world without in order to bring it to the world within which is the kingdom of God. The imagination is our chief stumbling block to this process and indeed imagination can deceive us into thinking that we have achieved our aim when we have not.

Having re-collected the mind, we focus our thoughts on God but taking care not to be distracted, which is where attention comes in. We must also focus attention on our heart. Concentrating the mind in the heart means this attention of mind and heart. We must keep the mind undistracted and the heart pure. This union of mind and heart is aided by enfolding the mind in the words of our prayer. The mind says the words (aloud or mentally) whilst the heart feels their meaning with feelings of warm tenderness. The heart is the seat of our spiritual faculties. When mind and heart are in sympathy, grace comes and blesses this unity and warms our complete being. We may also be given tears of love and thanks. Then, we feel fear of God, love of God, love of all mankind, and love of all creation. We also feel repentance, humility, and grief that we ever sinned against God. These feelings may be felt intuitively by the united heart and mind rather than articulated by clear words.

Fr Zacharias does indeed write about this in 'The Enlargement of the Heart' (p. 138 et seq), and he also touches on aspects of this in 'The Hidden Man of the Heart'. In the first book, he refers to St Theophan. He told me some years ago that we cannot 'plan' our prayer and union of mind of heart beforehand; we learn by doing. 'We learn to pray by praying: prayer begets prayer', he said.

[Father David Moser]

This union of mind and heart is aided by enfolding the mind in the words of our prayer. The mind says the words (aloud or mentally) whilst the heart feels their meaning with feelings of warm tenderness. The heart is the seat of our spiritual faculties. When mind and heart are in sympathy, grace comes and blesses this unity and warms our complete being.

St Theophan speaks very simply and plainly about this in his four sermons on prayer (http://www.monachos.net/library/Theophan_the_Recluse%2C_Four_Homilies_on_Prayer) which are in the Monachos patristics library (http://www.monachos.net/library/Patristic_Studies_Area).

Fr David Moser

[Peter S.]

I have heard or read that the 'heart' is not the physical heart, but there is a connection because the rythm of the Jesusprayer shall be in harmony with the heartbeat. I know St. Theophan is not only referring to the Jesusprayer when he speaks about prayer, but this is something I have heard about the mind and the heart.


There is a third aspect or level of prayer, which makes up true prayer, and for which the first two aspects are only preparation. This is the unceasing turning of the mind and heart to God, accompanied by interior warmth or burning of the spirit.Third Homily on Prayer – St Theophan the Recluse

Sometimes I have felt like gaz running through my blood in my veins for some seconds during prayer or remembrance of God and other kinds of prayer. At least this has something to do with interior warmth. I am glad there is a goal for our prayer, but usually when I pray I have forgotten that. I like the simple way St. Theophan speaks in the sermon about prayer. So concrete. And love is the key.


Do not think that we are talking about something very lofty which is an unattainable state for living people. No. It truly is a lofty state, but attainable by all.by all. Does not everyone at some time feel warmth in their hearts in prayer, when the soul separates itself from all things and deeply enters into itself and prays hotly to God? This movement of the prayerful spirit, although it was once only temporary, must be made into a constant state, and it will reach the limits of prayer.
Third Homily on Prayer – St Theophan the Recluse

I like this.

Peter

[Peter S.]

We pray in the morning and the evening: there is a great distance between them. If we only turn to God at these times, then even if we pray whole-heartedly, during the day or night, everything will fall apart, and when it is time again to pray, the soul will feel cold and empty, as before. One can pray again whole-heartedly, but if you become cold and fall apart again, what use is it? This is just building and destroying, building and destroying; it is only labor. Third Homily on Prayer – St Theophan the Recluse


It seems it is time to become a monk...
;)


I will briefly answer him who wants to know how these three things: fear of God, remembrance of God, and this loving, constant calling on the name of God, are perfected: begin to seek them, and the work itself will teach you how to find its perfection. Hold to only one law: cast aside everything that gets in the way of these things, and earnestly seek out that which aids them. The work itself will teach you how to tell which things are which. I add to this only the following instruction:


When you begin to be contained in your heart as you are contained in your body, surrounded by warmth on all sides, or when you begin to conduct yourself as you conduct yourself around some important person, that is, with fear and attention so that you would not offend him, regardless of your desire to walk and act freely, or if you see, that your soul is beginning to remain with the Lord as a wife with her beloved husband, then know, that the Visitor of our souls is near, at the doors, and He will enter in and feast with you within yourself.


And these few signs, I think, are enough for zealous seekers. All of this is said only with the goal that those of you who pray wholeheartedly would know the limit of prayer, and having worked only a little and obtained only a little you would not think that you have obtained everything. Third Homily on Prayer – St Theophan the Recluse

You may not get what you ask for in this thread Robert, but this is something.

Peter

[James Blackstock]

This might have been covered before, if so forgive me.

Theologically I have sense...perhaps a weak one of what it means to bring the mind into the heart...to unite the mind and heart. Pragmatically though have no idea what this is or what it feels like or how to accomplish it.

How does one bring the mind into the heart...what are the signs/symptoms of doing it even if only for a few seconds.

I understand the fathers teach us our mind is scattered and attached to many external things, and that is supposed to be a bad thing to leave it in that state. I understand, to a certain degree about developing a degree of mental discipline, and not letting the mind wander, jump and indulge itself as it wishes...but pragmatically what is it to bring it into the heart? What is my heart? How do I discern it in myself...beyond perhaps fallacious associations with strong emotions?

If you ask me to put a finger in my ear...I know what that is and how to do it...and I have a definite sense of my own mind...my thinking, reasoning, imagining, willing etc. The heart however is still a bit vague and abstract to me....more metaphor than constituent part/aspect, though I know this is a "blindness" on my part, a lack of perception.

So can anyone help me sort this out? What is the heart and how is it recognized...and what is it pragmatically...as a process to bring the mind into the heart? What are we doing and how does it "feel" to make this happen even for a mere moment?


Dear Robert:
I was just given a book by a monk when I asked this same question of him; it is called "The Elder Ieronymos of Aegina" published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery and avail through Alibris or Eighth Day Books. This book describes a very different world in Cappidoccia where they learn of compunctionate prayer. This book answered many questions for me.

INXC,
Seraphim

[Robert Hegwood]

I've read a bit further in Enlargement of the Heart, and if I may paraphrase and summarize I think this is what I am finding:

Finding the heart is a task associated with deep repentance. Indeed it is the pain of genuine repentance that reveals the heart. Just as the pain from a sudden injury to our thumb will focus and concentrate our mind on our thumb so the pain of our heart will through our tears of repentance in time reveal more and more clearly the place of the heart. The task of the mind is to enter into the pain of that repentance and unite with it in prayer. Mourning for our sins is necessary for without it we cannot find our heart and until the heart is found the mind cannot descend into to it in prayer....at least not on purpose and not for long.

If I have misread Elder Zacharias on this point, please correct me.

[Fabio Lins]

Hello Robert!

I think that the trouble with finding the nous is that it a "sensory organ". My eye cannot see my eye. Not even his brother just the other side of the nose. Likewise, we do not see the nous because it is with it that we see. We notice it, though, through many ways. If my sight stop working I know something happend to my eyes even if there is no other sensory input such as pain.

The nous, though, goes the other way. Due to Adam's sin it is blind or shortsighted from birth. So we will not see the nous when it starts working again, but we will see what it was made to see. That is why we must use the reference of the Spiritual Fathers and Mothers who due to their own illumination and the apostolic tradition which transmitted to them the reference of those who saw God incarnate are able to see.

As for our horrible state now we must simply trust what the illumined and the Church simply tell us about how to open the eye of the heart. Now we just hear, but then we will see. :)

[Marie C.]

This might have been covered before, if so forgive me.

Theologically I have sense...perhaps a weak one of what it means to bring the mind into the heart...to unite the mind and heart. Pragmatically though have no idea what this is or what it feels like or how to accomplish it.

How does one bring the mind into the heart...what are the signs/symptoms of doing it even if only for a few seconds.

I understand the fathers teach us our mind is scattered and attached to many external things, and that is supposed to be a bad thing to leave it in that state. I understand, to a certain degree about developing a degree of mental discipline, and not letting the mind wander, jump and indulge itself as it wishes...but pragmatically what is it to bring it into the heart? What is my heart? How do I discern it in myself...beyond perhaps fallacious associations with strong emotions?

If you ask me to put a finger in my ear...I know what that is and how to do it...and I have a definite sense of my own mind...my thinking, reasoning, imagining, willing etc. The heart however is still a bit vague and abstract to me....more metaphor than constituent part/aspect, though I know this is a "blindness" on my part, a lack of perception.

So can anyone help me sort this out? What is the heart and how is it recognized...and what is it pragmatically...as a process to bring the mind into the heart? What are we doing and how does it "feel" to make this happen even for a mere moment?

I believe the concept is to quiet the physical mind, as in hesychasm, so as to open ourselves to the noetic aspect (mind) of the heart.

Psa 46:10 Be still, and know that I [am] God:.....

The heart has a separate mind of it's own from our physical mind. Tis why it can be so irrational at times such as with love.
The heart also has a mouth and eyes of it's own as well, them being part of that noetic aspect.

Gen 24:45 And before I had done speaking in mine heart, ...

Gen 27:41 ....Esau said in his heart,...

Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

[Alexander Zhdanov]

Here, it seems to me, there are two aspects.The first is practical and the second is mystical.

Practical aspect consists that the person engaged in internal making concentrates on his inner world, making Jesusprayer and cutting bad thoughts and passionate desires. After long-long years of such making, heart of the person is gradually cleared and there comes mystical aspect.

God moves in heart of the person , Divine energy which start with heart involve mind (attention) of the person in heart and it does not demand efforts of the person as earlier as mind of the person itself is attracted to God. This is a condition of sanctity and it cannot be reached "mechanically" by our own efforts.

Alexander.

[Alexander Zhdanov]

"Father's books, in particular those of them which teach to true obedience, to soberness of mind and silence, attention and a mind prayer, which is made by mind in heart exclusively beseems only to one monastic rank, instead of orthodox Christians all in general. Godbearing Fathers, stating the doctrine about this prayer, assert that its beginning and the unshakable basis is true obedience from which true humility is born, and humility stores practising in a prayer from all spiritual deceptions subsequent to disobidient. Wordly people cannot probably to gain true monastic obedience and cutting off of the will made in all and own reason. How it will be possible for wordly people, without obedience, on willfulness to which the spiritual deception will follow, to be forced on so terrible and awful business, that is on that prayer, without any exhortations?..."
Paisy Velichkovsky
Transaltion is mine:)

[Wade]

This might have been covered before, if so forgive me.

Theologically I have sense...perhaps a weak one of what it means to bring the mind into the heart...to unite the mind and heart. Pragmatically though have no idea what this is or what it feels like or how to accomplish it.

How does one bring the mind into the heart...what are the signs/symptoms of doing it even if only for a few seconds.

I understand the fathers teach us our mind is scattered and attached to many external things, and that is supposed to be a bad thing to leave it in that state. I understand, to a certain degree about developing a degree of mental discipline, and not letting the mind wander, jump and indulge itself as it wishes...but pragmatically what is it to bring it into the heart? What is my heart? How do I discern it in myself...beyond perhaps fallacious associations with strong emotions?

If you ask me to put a finger in my ear...I know what that is and how to do it...and I have a definite sense of my own mind...my thinking, reasoning, imagining, willing etc. The heart however is still a bit vague and abstract to me....more metaphor than constituent part/aspect, though I know this is a "blindness" on my part, a lack of perception.

So can anyone help me sort this out? What is the heart and how is it recognized...and what is it pragmatically...as a process to bring the mind into the heart? What are we doing and how does it "feel" to make this happen even for a mere moment?

Robert,
That is a great question and one that I have asked fairly frequently lately. There are some things that a difficult if not impossible to put into words and this, I think, is one of them. I don't have the answer exactly but I will be happy to give you my perspective from a practical standpoint. When I say practical I mean I've been reading The Art of Prayer and Theophan seems to write what I think. I agree with much of what the others here have said. It is not something you can just do, time and repentance are precursors and probably some other things as well. As I am still in the process, as are we all I think, so all I can say is from the perspective of one on the road. In my morning prayers I end with time spent in the prayer of silence. I endeavor to think no thought. This is not easy and took me months to even get a start on. So I am still before God leaving behind thoughts, cares, responsibilties and let my desire and love for God reach out to touch Him as the woman just wanted to touch the hem of His robe. I stay in this place for 20 minutes or so. While I have no cognitive perception of Gods action, no manifestations, I believe He is doing a deep work. Over time He seems to be transforming me.

On a podcast from OurLifeinChrist.com Papa Dimitrious talks about there being two cognitive centers, our mind and our heart. I'm not sure if he is right or not but I think he is. Leaving the mind and reaching out with the heart for God with the heart that God might in turn do some transforming work in us is I think what St. Theophan is talking about. I may be wrong but I will seek Him in this way till He shows me a better way or my breath is gone. This is just an outline. The Jesus prayer is integral to my prayer time and preparing me to meet God. I hope this helps. You seem to be pretty well read. If you have not read it I would recommend The Cloud of Unknowing.

God bless now and ever...

Wade