Freemasonry and the Church

[John Litster]

Hello all,

I've often heard Freemasonry being condemned as heretical, evil, or otherwise unacceptable in the eyes of the Church. I may be mistaken, but I think there also is a canon that states that joining the Freemasons is an excommunicable offense.

My question is simply - why is this? I've never received a satisfactory answer, and some of the stuff I hear about the Masons from Orthodox sources has distinctly wacky, "conspiracy theory" edge to it - that they're a vast, sinister Kabbal who control the secular West, that they're out to destroy the church through the controling of schismatic movements, or that they're a pagan cult. This rings distinctly similar, in my mind at least, to the old anti-Semitic notions of the last few centuries, only with another name.

Can anyone explain why Masonic idealogy runs contrary to Orthodox teaching?

[Misha]

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/masonry.aspx

[Andreas Moran]

I'm no expert on this and have just picked up information on the way. Freemasonry grew in importance during the 18th century 'Enlightenment' through figures such as Diderot who promoted atheism. I was told that freemasonry is un-Christian because it sees all religions as equal, and therefore none as being wholly true. This obviously denies the Christian belief that Christ is the Way and the Truth. It thus promotes religious indifference and syncretism. It is purely anthropocentric. England is well known as a centre of freemasonry. Many leading establishment figures are freemasons. The present Grand Master is the Duke of Kent, a cousin of the Queen. A former Archbishop of Canterbury, Geoffrey Fisher, was a freemason. The present archbishop, Rowan Williams, suggested that freemasonry and Christianity were incompatible. He was very quickly forced to apologise for this (Daily Telegraph 20 April 2003). The incompatibility of freemasonry and the Orthodox Church was explained in a Declaration dated 12 October 1933 of the Holy Synod of the Church of Greece (see Misha's link). This notwithstanding, freemasons have reached high office in the Church (with dire results). Ecumenical Patriarchs Joachim III, Meletius, and Athenagoras were freemasons. As I have said before elsewhere in this forum, Athenagoras was a high-ranking freemason whom the Americans installed as Patriarch after they deposed Patriarch Maximos who was imprisoned in a psychiatric clinic in Switzerland until his death.

As to wacky conspiracy theories, it is hard to say. There is no doubt that some very powerful and infuential people are freemasons or have links with it: the Rothchilds come to mind, and they have close links with the likes of George Soros, Henry Kissinger, the Rockefellers, and Boris Berezovsky. Guests of Lord Rothschild at Waddesdon Manor in Buckinghamshire have included Warren Buffet and Arnold Schwarzenegger. Do such people conspire to control events? George Soros was certainly behind the economic chaos in Russia in the Yelstin years when he, Gaidar and Chubais implemented 'shock therapy' on the Russians which was all shock and no therapy, destroying overnight the life savings of Russians and allowing the oligarchs such as Khodorkovsky, Berezovsky, Abramovich et al to acquire former state assets at knockdown prices. Berezovsky funded the 'Orange Revolution' in Ukraine, and Soros funded the 'Rose Revolution' in Georgia and bankrolled Saakashvili and his associates. These activities appear to coincide with the aim of the USA to reduce the sphere of Russian influence by seeking to make former eastern bloc and Soviet countries such as Poland, Ukraine and Georgia allies, and to take NATO up to the borders of Russia as much as possible. Russians I know (including clergy) have no doubts that freemasons and their supporters have great influence in America and Britain and that they are enemies of Orthodoxy. Some expression of these thoughts can be found on the website of Fr Andrew Phillips (ROCOR) at his http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/ website.

[Herman Blaydoe]

The basic teachings of Masonry are watered-down Gnosticism which are condemned by the Church. They pay homage to a generic Deity and put forth a "secret" teaching. They make vows of a rather bloody nature which really mean no more than the childhood 'cross my fingers, hope to die, stick a needle in my eye' sort of thing, but generally are not nice things for Christians to say when all else is said and done. Beyond that, much of those nasty things people accuse them of is pure blatherskite not unlike the nasty things said about the early Christians by their detractors.

They claim "secret knowledge" but don't really know what they are worshipping. Seems rather ironic to me. But the history of American Masonry is full of irony. I could go on at length, my dad has been a member for many years, but I do not want to risk boring you all. Don't believe everything you read, especially on the Internet.

[Andreas Moran]

Herman is obviously right to say that we should not believe everything we hear on the news and read on the internet or in the press; the coverage of the tragic events in Georgia illustrates this all to well. Also, freemasonry as it is followed by local worthies in any provincial English town is just the kind of charitable fraternity it presents itself to be. Having said that, I was in training as a lawyer at a small firm and was under the supervision of a partner who was a freemason. As I neared the end of my training he began to talk about his lodge and how he thought I would enjoy it. Clearly, he was sounding me out. I said I wasn't interested. Invariably, when one qualifies, one is put on a lawyer's salary and not kept on a trainee's salary. On qualifying, I found myself kept on a trainee's salary and was told I'd be given a good reference if I wanted to leave. I left.

The matters I mention in my post are not, I think, nonsense since they can be found in many sources. As to the events surrounding Patriarchs Maximos and Athenagoras, my source is one who was an eyewitness to the events and who himself told me the whole story. That person was deacon to Patriarch Maximos and is now Bishop Eirenaios.

[Misha]

Patriarch Meletios Metaxakis' name is in the catalogue of the Grand Lodge of Greece.
http://www.grandlodge.gr/Famous_gr_home.html
He was the man who changed the calendar in the Church and persecuted the old calendarists.
May God have mercy on his soul.

[Eric Peterson]

I don't know of any canons applying specifically to Freemasonry since the canons were written before Freemasons existed (unless you believe the Temple of Solomon/Templar connection). There is a document put out by the Church of Greece in the 30s. Also, at least one early American Orthodox priest Fr. Nathaniel (Ingram) Irvine wrote against Freemasonry.

It is a religious organization which does not recognize the exclusive claims of Christian Truth, which sets it in opposition to Orthodoxy. Indeed, one can ignore conspiracy theories entirely and still come to the conclusion that to be a Freemason and an Orthodox Christian is a contradiction, like trying to serve two masters.

As a side question, was there a Freemason connection with the Greek Revolution?

[Paul Cowan]

The Church of Latter Day Saints (LDS Church) was based heavily on Freemasonry ideals. Look how they have manifested themselves.

[Matthew Namee]

Eric mentioned Fr. Nathaniel (Ingram) Irvine, an early American Orthodox priest. The following is from a letter he wrote in 1917, opposing the proposed consecration of Aftimios Ofiesh as bishop. (I transcribed it exactly as it is written; all typos and emphases are in the original.)




Who is the candidate for the Syrian Vicar Bishoprick? A Freemason. It may be said that, he has given up Masonry. While I doubt it, it makes the matter more terrible than if he persisted in being an active member. And why?


First: Because by being an in-active member for the sake of a chance of being made a Bishop he must have lost the respect of both the Masonic Order and loyal Orthodox Christians.


Second: There is an old and well authenticated fact to wit: —"Once a Mason always a Mason." An ignorance of the watchword because of delinquency of a member etc., for the time being, does not hinder the opportunity of having that ignorance remedied and the knowledge granted at an opportune moment. Insincerity under the first point would suggest the second idea.


The history of Freemasonry is a night-mare to Christianity in the West. Pardon a little bit of my own knowledge being interjected. Practical knowledge after all is the best.


The Anglican Episcopate is blighted with Free Masonery. I have known an Anglican Bishop to have traveled one hundred and fifty miles to a Masonic Lodge to be introduced to a District Court Judge, who was also a Mason, to influence him against one of the Bishop’s priest who had a valid case against the Bishop for the most infamous conspiracy. The Master of the Masonic Lodge condemned the whole proceeding on the part of the bishop and judge, nevertheless the Chaplain of the Lodge with the latter’s (Chaplin’s) wife, partakers in the Conspiracy with the Bishop gained the point. The judge contrary to all sense of justice when the case was on trial, took the consideration from the jury and dismissed the case in favor of the Conspirators, Bishop etc.


Freemasonry, today, is a mixture of spurious Christianity, agnosticism, infidelity, aethism, Judaism, and in very many instances, immorality. I have carefully studied it for over fifty years. It’s nobility of long ago, while it has still some noble men as members, has long since departed. It has damned the State and the Church by its under-hand influence and corruptive practices.


If a Bishop of the Church is a Freemason then every priest had better be a Mason in his Diocese, for otherwise it may follow that a Jew, an Infidel, an Aethiest etc. or the lowest saloon keeper, or house of ill fame manager, as a member would have more influence as a mason with the Masonic Bishop than the priest who was not a member of the Order.


One of the questions asked of me when I was a candidate for the Russian Orthodox Priesthood was "Are you a Freemason?" My reply was "I am not" Have we changed? Are our conditions variable?


Now if the Episcopate is one, any member of it affects the whole. And if the Church is one, any member of the same may feel agrieved if he believes that a member of an alien and pernicious organization is permitted to rule in the high and sacred office of a Bishop in the Church of God Almighty.


The Orthodox Church has gained the Confidence and love of right-thinking people. Let us not tarnish her banner now by inserting amongst the title letters "Masonery" Rome is marveling at our success and Orthodox Catholicity. Let us not give her a chance to say that, we have retrograded to rationalism and chicanery. Above all things let us guard the Episcopate from that which is wordly and earthly.


Therefore if all other keep silent, I for one, as a faithful priest of the Russo-Greek Holy Orthodox Catholic Church, most solemnly protest against the admission of Archimandrite Afiesh or any other Mason into the Episcopate.


And if he is admitted or any Mason, even under pain of Ecclesiastical penalties, I will never recognize him as a Bishop. I can not serve God and Mammon in the Episcopate. Masons as Laymen may be sinners, but as Bishops hypocrites and creatures of circumstances.

In other words, one of the problems with Freemasonry, according to Irvine, is that it creates conflicting loyalties. This would be in addition to whatever dogmatic or ritualistic conflicts there would be between itself and Orthodoxy. My understanding is that Orthodox Christians are forbidden to be members of any secret society, not just Freemasonry, in part because of the inherent conflicts of loyalty.

I don't think it had anything to do with Freemasonry, but Ofiesh proved to be a disaster as a bishop.

[Robert Hegwood]

The infamy which is heaped upon freemasonry has long been a bit of a puzzlement to me, not because I disagree with the things being criticized within freemasonry...but because I've never witnessed anything remotely like them in the part of the world where I live....and when I have mentioned the charges leveled against masonry to older masons, they have taken insult and strongly denied such goings on. My father, my grandfathers, several of my uncles, and even my brother are masons. Several of the deacons in the Southern Baptist Church in which I grew up were Masons as well. I was invited to join the masons in my teens but I declined. My father, two uncles (one maternal, one paternal), and my maternal grandfather were all Scottish Rite mansons and all deacons in their SB churches, and to my knowledge they were all God fearing men who knew the scriptures, taught Sunday School and sought to live a Christian life the best they could. When first began reading about the various oaths and rituals of the Masons, I was a bit put off. And latter when I read texts from their lodge books that effectively equated Christianity with Magic I knew I wanted nothing to do with it. When I asked about such things either they were unaware of those teachings and did not take the bloody oaths that seriously...it was just a kind of fraternal folderol. They joined because it was a good way to make contacts to help in business and because the lodge supposedly looked after members if they fell on really hard times. Basically it was looked upon a Christian Brotherhood useful for charity and networking.

Years later when I traveled north out of the deep south I encountered masonic attitudes and publications of a very different character and tone...it really did seem more like a substitute religion hostile to Christianity rather than the almost parachurch nature it had down south. One of my uncles was likewise surprised when he had to move north following a job and the local Baptist church there refused to accept him unless he abandoned his involvement with the Masons.

So, while I don't have any problem condemning Freemasonry, and can definitely see why it is incompatible with Orthodoxy it is harder for me to make a blanket condemnation of Freemasons. They are not the same thing necessarily from one place to another. This is/was certainly so in the deep South. Freemasonry seems to have a chameleonlike nature that fades to almost nothing in the presence of strong religious belief but shows its true face when faith has otherwise diminished in a community. It seems to me there are a number of otherwise conscientious Christians of various traditions who are masons and who are completely ignorant of its antichristian content.

[Ryan]

I don't think anyone is arguing for a blanket condemnation of Masons. I too know some southern Masons who are totally unaware of the occult teachings. The basic point is that one cannot be both a true Christian and a Mason, unless one ignores or rejects some basic tenets of Masonry.

[Paul Cowan]

It seems to me there are a number of otherwise conscientious Christians of various traditions who are masons and who are completely ignorant of its antichristian content.


This can be said for many religious beliefs as well. People are woo'd into them on the soft sell, but as time goes by they see the falsness of what they at first believed to be so pure. At this juncture, it becomes very hard for them to stay and even harder to leave. Such is the Mormon church.

[Andrew Pantelli]

The infamy which is heaped upon freemasonry has long been a bit of a puzzlement to me, not because I disagree with the things being criticized within freemasonry...but because I've never witnessed anything remotely like them in the part of the world where I live....and when I have mentioned the charges leveled against masonry to older masons, they have taken insult and strongly denied such goings on. My father, my grandfathers, several of my uncles, and even my brother are masons. Several of the deacons in the Southern Baptist Church in which I grew up were Masons as well. I was invited to join the masons in my teens but I declined. My father, two uncles (one maternal, one paternal), and my maternal grandfather were all Scottish Rite mansons and all deacons in their SB churches, and to my knowledge they were all God fearing men who knew the scriptures, taught Sunday School and sought to live a Christian life the best they could. When first began reading about the various oaths and rituals of the Masons, I was a bit put off. And latter when I read texts from their lodge books that effectively equated Christianity with Magic I knew I wanted nothing to do with it. When I asked about such things either they were unaware of those teachings and did not take the bloody oaths that seriously...it was just a kind of fraternal folderol. They joined because it was a good way to make contacts to help in business and because the lodge supposedly looked after members if they fell on really hard times. Basically it was looked upon a Christian Brotherhood useful for charity and networking.

Years later when I traveled north out of the deep south I encountered masonic attitudes and publications of a very different character and tone...it really did seem more like a substitute religion hostile to Christianity rather than the almost parachurch nature it had down south. One of my uncles was likewise surprised when he had to move north following a job and the local Baptist church there refused to accept him unless he abandoned his involvement with the Masons.

So, while I don't have any problem condemning Freemasonry, and can definitely see why it is incompatible with Orthodoxy it is harder for me to make a blanket condemnation of Freemasons. They are not the same thing necessarily from one place to another. This is/was certainly so in the deep South. Freemasonry seems to have a chameleonlike nature that fades to almost nothing in the presence of strong religious belief but shows its true face when faith has otherwise diminished in a community. It seems to me there are a number of otherwise conscientious Christians of various traditions who are masons and who are completely ignorant of its antichristian content.
As an Ex Mason please allow me to try and shed some light here. Firstly, I suggest that we never condemn masons, rather veiw them with compassion and Grace. They are in deception, and as such they try and live a righteous life by works. To all intents and purposes they are more moral than a lot of christians. After they have had it explained, that it is incompatable with being a follower of Christ, they will have a choice to reject it or leave the Church. It is a religion, it is based on the kabbala, the tree of life, Jesus half way up, and Lucifer the true god, of the masons at the top of the tree. a British book that explaines it as it is, is The Craft and the Cross by Ian Gordon Kingsway Publications. ISBN 0-86065-694-2 This gives the wokings and the words. You may then make your own conclusions. This issue of freemasonry in the church has just surfaced here in a local Parish, and it is causing disharmony, hurt and confusion. Which is exactly what the enemy wants. The victory is ours though, through Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!!!

[Jean-Serge]

As I have said before elsewhere in this forum, Athenagoras was a high-ranking freemason whom the Americans installed as Patriarch after they deposed Patriarch Maximos who was imprisoned in a psychiatric clinic in Switzerland until his death.

By the way, it was said that Patriarch Maximos was not really mentally ill but this was a plot.

[Andreas Moran]

By the way, it was said that Patriarch Maximos was not really mentally ill but this was a plot.

This was indeed the case.

[David Lanier]

I have heard some claims that many bishops and other clergy are Masons although I have no proof or evidence of it. Does anyone know if this is true?

[Paul Cowan]

I have heard some claims that many bishops and other clergy are Masons although I have no proof or evidence of it. Does anyone know if this is true?

If you have no proof or evidence of it, why make the claim and post it on facebook for the world to sow doubt on our clergy?

[J. K. Amra]

Freemasonry is the worship of Lucifer, who the esoteric globalists consider to be the true god, and Adonai the evil vengeful god who kept man imprisoned in the garden.

The doctrine of Freemasonry falls inline with Theosophy, Adam Weishaupt infiltrated Freemasonry in the late 1700's after the formation of the Illuminati.

"It is not my intention to doubt that the doctrine of the Illuminati and the principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more satisfied [aware] of this fact than I am. The idea that I meant to convey, was, that I did not believe that the Lodges of Free Masons in this Country had, as Societies, endeavoured to propagate the diabolical tenets of the first, or pernicious principles of the latter (if they are susceptible of separation). That Individuals of them may have done it, or that the founder, or instrument employed to found, the Democratic Societies in the United States, may have had these objects; and actually had a separation of the People from their Government in view, is too evident to be questioned."- George Washington.

"The great strength of our Order lies in its concealment; let it never appear in any place in its own name, but always concealed by another name, and another occupation. None is fitter than the lower degrees of Freemasonry; the public is accustomed to it, expects little from it, and therefore takes little notice of it. Next to this, the form of a learned or literary society is best suited to our purpose, and had Freemasonry not existed, this cover would have been employed; and it may be much more than a cover, it may be a powerful engine in our hands. … A Literary Society is the most proper form for the introduction of our Order into any state where we are yet strangers."
- Adam Weishaupt

"LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light…Doubt it not!"
- Albert Pike (Morals and Dogma)

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." Thomas Jefferson

Of course, the latter quote has nothing to do with Freemasonry, but the Federal Reserve and Freemasonry/Secret Societies go together like peanut butter and jelly.

[David Lanier]

If you have no proof or evidence of it, why make the claim and post it on facebook for the world to sow doubt on our clergy?

As if the world cannot see it here? Gimme a break! Unlike here, the information I share on facebook can only be seen by friends and friends of friends, and over 90% of the people in my friends list are Orthodox anyway.

If there are still freemasons in the Church, it should be exposed for what it is. I think the question deserves answer.

A former parishioner tells me that they were witness to active Masonry in the Church they once attended, and there was even a Masonic funeral for a priest (who himself was a Mason). They also state that Masonic rites were performed in the Church, although they were not present for them. I do not know which jurisdiction this was.

This site (http://www.grandlodge.gr/el/%CE%9F%CE%A4%CE%B5%CE%BA%CF%84%CE%BF%CE%BD%CE%B9%C F%83%CE%BC%CF%8C%CF%82/%CE%94%CE%B9%CE%B1%CE%BA%CE%B5%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%B9%C E%BC%CE%AD%CE%BD%CE%BF%CE%B9%CE%88%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE% B7%CE%BD%CE%B5%CF%82%CE%A4%CE%AD%CE%BA%CF%84%CE%BF %CE%BD%CE%B5%CF%82.aspx) supposedly lists clergy who are active Masons.

[Mark Harris]

I was a Freemason and I am not now for personal reasons , however as a result of their secrecay they are accused of many things and like all organisations composed of many parts (Lodges) there are some who remain true to their purpose and some who abuse it. Freemasonry is not a religion however there is the expectation that you must believe in a higher being in order to be considered into a Lodge. There are also many religions and creeds represented in Freemasonry. My own Lodge (which was related to my school) contained Christians of various denominations, Jews , Hindus and Budhists. However of the Christian denominations there were no Catholics and I do not know if there were any Orthodox Christians as this was a very long time ago. Freemasonry is described as a "peculiar system of morality , veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols" and no reference is ever made of some great secret or power, and no financial gain or business networking or political manouvering is meant to be gained by its membership. My school lodge met 3 times per year and only dined and discussed charity donations and support of fellow Frememason's or their spouses and families. As mentioned , there are Lodges who have gone beyond this and in particular I recall some in Italy that were tainted with a very bad lot such as P2. As I recall , any meeting with an overseas Lodge had to be vetted as to the ethicacy of the Lodge being met and the motives of the meeting. Anyway no doubt the conspiracy theories will abound and some will still have bad motive behind them whilst the majority are nothing more than a bunch of old boys having an excuse to get out of the house , dress up and have some lunch!

[Mark Harris]

I should also add that the swearing in of a US President is based on the Master Mason ceremony as George Washington was a keen Freemason and many US military units in the war of Independence were aligned with a Masonic Lodge. And as I recall form somewhere else on Monachos many organisations have borrowed symbolism and allegory form Christianity but that does not mean it is anti Christian or satanic.

[John Konstantin]

You were clearly only a low degree in the Masons Mark. I suspect as you would have progressed you would have been more privy to more information and 'secrets'. The occult nature of the higher degrees is almost a matter of public record.

[Ryan]

I've heard from a bona fide occultist that, while the Masons are occult in origin, the organization today has been pretty much stripped of esoteric content (though the symbolism remains) and it really is just an old boys' network now. People who really want to join occult fraternities go to other groups now. (Which is not to say that it is now OK for Orthodox Christians to be in the Masons.)

[Mark Harris]

Whilst I was a lowly Mason if there is PUBLIC record of it I would also be aware of it and I am not aware of the public record of any occult practices that your refer to, heresay yes and speculation from people outside of it yes, but the so called secrets are simply revelations of more allegory demonstrated with more symbolism. And I reiterate this is not a religion, never attempted to be seen as a religion and never treated as one.

[Christina M.]

What do you guys think about conspiracy theories like this: http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=5145
Do you think it's possible that it was intentional? Are the masons that powerful?

[John Konstantin]

heresay yes and speculation from people outside of it yes,

Not quite, most of the information that went public was from ex-masons, some of high rank. No doubt you would ascertain that they had an axe to grind. Everything about Freemasony as a Christian makes my flesh crawl, as much as if I was standing outside a Satanic coven. I was approached numerous times about joining when I was an Anglican clergyman and one of those who approached me was of extremely high standing within British society. A nicer chap one couldn't wish to meet. However, when one has even a portion of the Holy Spirit it is extraordinary how it works as an early warning system to those things we should not be party to. Freemasonry being only one of them.

[Mark Harris]

I wouldn't doubt that there are some Lodges not aligned with good works but people assume that all Lodges are tarred with the same brushes and stories of corruption the occult and scandal are far better copy to sell books and newspapers than stories about the Freemason's Hospital and Charity donations and old boys in their 90s dining out after a a bit of pantomime! Anyway , I am not part of it any more and it is not part of my Theosis.

[John Konstantin]

The word occult comes from the Latin word occultus (clandestine, hidden, secret), referring to "knowledge of the hidden". Ergo: Freemasonry is occultic.

We all know about the 'good works' of the freemasons as much as we know about the mafia contributions to various Catholic archdiocese. That is not the issue. But as you say, you have moved on and that is a cause for great rejoicing :)

[J. K. Amra]

Make no mistake Freemasonry is a religion, not a club.

Freemasonry works like this,

In a certain ritual you are told to spit on a cross depicting Christ, regardless of whether or not you do the deed or refuse, they tell you that you progress. Just like when people get to the higher degrees of Masonry (which is embedded with Islamic symbolism, as opposed to some of the lower Egyptian ones, you are offered to join the Luciferic brotherhood, if you refuse, that means you passed the test, if you accept, you join

Theosophy (Helena Blavatsky) and Freemasonry are identical, both are religious movements. Masons are brainwashed into thinking it's not a religion.

[Mark Harris]

Make no mistake Freemasonry is a religion, not a club.

Freemasonry works like this,

In a certain ritual you are told to spit on a cross depicting Christ, regardless of whether or not you do the deed or refuse, they tell you that you progress. Just like when people get to the higher degrees of Masonry (which is embedded with Islamic symbolism, as opposed to some of the lower Egyptian ones, you are offered to join the Luciferic brotherhood, if you refuse, that means you passed the test, if you accept, you join

Theosophy (Helena Blavatsky) and Freemasonry are identical, both are religious movements. Masons are brainwashed into thinking it's not a religion.

utter rubbish, unless you have first hand experience of this, the sort of rubbish that got the Templars terminated.

[Nick Katich]

Not quite, most of the information that went public was from ex-masons, some of high rank. No doubt you would ascertain that they had an axe to grind. Everything about Freemasony as a Christian makes my flesh crawl, as much as if I was standing outside a Satanic coven. I was approached numerous times about joining when I was an Anglican clergyman and one of those who approached me was of extremely high standing within British society. A nicer chap one couldn't wish to meet. However, when one has even a portion of the Holy Spirit it is extraordinary how it works as an early warning system to those things we should not be party to. Freemasonry being only one of them.

Albert Pike was not an ex-mason. He was of the highest rank of a practicing mason when he publish his book. His theology of Lucifer (the God of Light) pervades the entire work.

[Mark Harris]

Albert Pike was not an ex-mason. He was of the highest rank of a practicing mason when he publish his book. His theology of Lucifer (the God of Light) pervades the entire work.

He also asserts that Masonry is not a religion and I understand he was also Scottish Rite so not in fact a Free Mason. Also the 19th century was a time when many crackpot ideas emerged about the occult world and the spirit world and many conspiracies as to who orchestrated world politics particularly including Germany the East in Russia and Freemasons (like Templars in their time) with cross border organisation and non denominational alegiance were easy prayer for politicians and organised religions to attack and be blamed for their own problems , errors and inabilities to rule.

[Archimandrite Irenei]

Please, everyone: this forum is for the discussion Orthodoxy in her patristic and monastic heritage. These side issues really aren't appropriate to this venue.

[Mark Harris]

Forgive me for aiding the diversion.
To get it back on track I see the only way to answer the original question properly is if there is within the Monachos community an Orthodox Christian who has had first hand experience and at a senior level (high degree) within Freemasonry itself. Anything other than this will be informed or misinformed opinion.
In Christ
Mark

[Nick Katich]

I understand he [Albert Pike] was also Scottish Rite so not in fact a Free Mason. .

Scottish and York Rite are two different paths to higher degrees. You need be be a third degree "Master Mason" to advance to these higher levels of "illuminations". Therefore, you statement that he was not in fact a Free Mason is incorrect. Check his bios all over the web.

[Nick Katich]

Forgive me for aiding the diversion.
To get it back on track I see the only way to answer the original question properly is if there is within the Monachos community an Orthodox Christian who has had first hand experience and at a senior level (high degree) within Freemasonry itself. Anything other than this will be informed or misinformed opinion.
In Christ
Mark

Mark: Forgive me but why does an Orthodox Christian need anything other than the Body of Christ?

[Jason H.]

I've been reading these posts and confused as to why this subject is brought up...Has there been an influx of freemasons I don't know about?

[Christina M.]

I've been reading these posts and confused as to why this subject is brought up...Has there been an influx of freemasons I don't know about?

It's actually surprising how many Orthodox laypeople and even priests (I will not mention further) are Freemasons. For example, my uncle was a well-respected Orthodox priest, but he was a mason.

Fr Athanasios Mitilinaios tells an amazing story of when he was a teenager in Greece. His neighbor, a teenage friend named Christos, had died unexpectedly, and Christos' illiterate mother gave away her son's books to their friends and neighbors. She gave Athanasios a book, and it happened to be about Freemasonry. On the top-left corner of every page was a strange symbol, and underneath the symbol was written "If the Christians knew what this symbol meant, they would burn us alive!" Athanasios was shocked that his neighbor friend, who also went to the same Orthodox Church, was a secret mason, so he brought the book to school to show his best friend (who also went to the same Church). He pulls the book out and shows his friend, saying: "Can you believe what Christos was reading? Look at this book! He was a mason!" When his friend saw the book, he violently grabbed it out of Athanasios' hands, and took off with it. In other words, his best friend was a secret freemason as well.

This story is written in a newly published book, a collection of Fr. Athanasios' homilies on the Book of Revelation.

[Archimandrite Irenei]

To all, and to repeat an earlier point: this forum is for the discussion of the patristic heritage. This thread thus far has no bearing on our scope. Please only contribute further posts to this thread if they directly bear upon the patristic legacy of the Church.

[Kosta]

The problem with freemasonry is that it has influenced events in the church in the most uncanonical ways. If it wasnt for freemasonry Patriarch Meletios Metaxakis of sorry memory would never have been installed as EP. He trampled upon the canons, and is responsible for the jurisdictional mess in America, the calendar controversy, and is even responsible for planting the false teaching on apostolic succession. He is the father of all the problems in Orthodoxy for the past 500 years.
He is the reason why many Orthodox no longer recognize right-belief as being a major component to laying on of hands in ordination. As patriarch of Alexandria he issued a statement recognizing anglican orders. It was strongly worded that they indeed have legitimate holy orders yet right bbelief as a pre-requisite was missing in this apologetic for anglican ordination, yet many ecumenists still rely on it.

But i will show why freemasonry is incompatible with Orthodoxy. Here is an excerpt from the freemason funeral service for Orthodox christians, as found on aserb, they even consider st John the baptis to bbe the patron saint of freemasonry (serbian masonic lodge):

MASTER: On this scroll, (hold up scroll) we have inscribed the name and Masonic record of our Brother. His spirit has returned whence it came.

(Deposit in casket alongside body.)

This lambskin or white leathern apron worn by our Brother (point to apron) is an emblem of innocence, and the badge of a Freemason. It is more ancient than the Golden Fleece or the Roman Eagle; more honorable than the Star and Garter, or any order instituted by man.

This evergreen (hold up to display) is an emblem of our faith in the immortality of the soul. It is a symbol of that immortal part within us which shall continue to exist beyond physical death.
Farewell, my Brother. '

As you can see it claims its symbolic apron is more ancient than the roman eagle. The double headed roman eagle is a symbol of our Church, likewise the Church is considered one of those orders instituted by man. They believe this lambskin is more honorable than the cross. That there fraternity more honorable than the church.

[David Lanier]

I've been reading these posts and confused as to why this subject is brought up...Has there been an influx of freemasons I don't know about?

Jason I believe I am the one guilty of reviving this thread. I did so because someone I am acquainted with has claimed that many of the bishops in the Church today are Freemasons, including HAH Bartholomew. I have not been able to find any direct evidence of this, but someone I know personally has also told me of a story in a parish they once were part of where there were several people (I think the priest included) who were Masons in that parish and at one time they even had a Masonic ritual in the church! This was in the late 90's - early 00's.

So I posted here trying to find out if anyone could offer any proof either way. The thread turned to debating whether or not Freemasonry should be something to be concerned about and whether or not it is evil and all that. The decrees of the various jurisdictions make it clear that one cannot be a Freemason and an Orthodox Christian at the same time. See: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/34849486/The-Orthodox-Church-and-Freemasonry if anyone has any doubts on that.

[John Konstantin]

Excellent reading material and well within the scope of the forum no doubt, David.

[Owen Jones]

When I was in high school I was asked to join DeMolay. I attended meetings for approx 1-2 years. The bizarre rituals were never explained to me. In one meeting we were told by our president that Demolay was good and necessary because we could not be forced to have "n******" as members. Our adult Mason advisor said nothing to contradict him. That led me to quit coming. But also the fact that the ritual book given to me to take home stated that I should hide it from my parents and never let them see what was in it! With my education I was able to see in hindsight that Freemasonry is a kind of cosmological gnosticism. Certainly incompatible with being an Orthodox Christian in every respect. The fact that many if not most Freemasons are good, honest, decent people is a red herring argument. As for the higher ups, I have no doubt that they work to promote each other into positions of power and influence. If there are any Orthodox priests, let alone bishops who are in the Masons, this is a scandal of the greatest proportions, IMHO.

[Christina M.]

Owen-- what does "n******" mean? I'm being serious (i.e. I'm not trying to make a joke)

[Peter]

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Matthew 7:16

[Christina M.]

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Matthew 7:16

The problem with this is that the Freemasons show many good works. They are one of the most charitable organizations in the USA. So from outward appearances, they would seem to be bearing "good fruits".

[Jason H.]

Owen-- what does "n******" mean? I'm being serious (i.e. I'm not trying to make a joke)

Derogatory word for African-Americans

[Christina M.]

Derogatory word for African-Americans

Gotcha! Thanks

Owen-- Around what years were you attending the meetings? The reason I ask, is because if it was a long time ago, say the '50s and '60s, racism was much more common then, whereas if it was more recent, the racism would seem much more extreme and not "politically correct"

[Ryan]

Gotcha! Thanks

Owen-- Around what years were you attending the meetings? The reason I ask, is because if it was a long time ago, say the '50s and '60s, racism was much more common then, whereas if it was more recent, the racism would seem much more extreme and not "politically correct"

You'd be surprised about what some people still say behind closed doors.

[Andrew Pantelli]

Freemasonry is a religion. The lodge is opened in prayer and hymns are sung. The prayers are directed to the Great Architect of the Universe, this god is named as Lucifer, when a Mason reaches the highest degrees.

[Andrew Pantelli]

When I was a Mason, the charity money was spread over as many 'needs' as possible, seeming that Masons were good and generous people, it was all for show. There was no deph, no long term commitment or long term support.

[Guillermo M.L.]

When I was in high school I was asked to join DeMolay.

Excuse me for my ignorance. What exactly is DeMolay?

[Guillermo M.L.]

Judging Freemasonry may be tricky, especially for Americans, as most of the Founding Fathers were masons. Could it be argued that America's independence was achieved thanks to Freemasonry, or in spite of it? If Freemasonry is as evil as some portray, can we say the same of the Founding Fathers?

Maybe Freemasonry was, during the 18th and 19th centuries, the only tool available for people who wished to do networking. The side-effect was that with networking also came indoctrination. Today, IMHO, there exist other ways to achieve the positive networking effects of FM without its negative effects... it could be argued that FM served a useful purpose for some people once, but it's now outdated.

It would be interesting to see if similar societies existed during Patristic times, and what the Fathers said about them. It would also be interesting to see if any of these high-ranking clerics who were supposed masons declared anything against FM.

[Oleg Anishchenkov]

Excuse me for my ignorance. What exactly is DeMolay?

Since Freemasonry has attempted so strenuously to claim that they are just a "good ole boy" fraternity that does good works and has a good time, most people will be shocked to learn the bitter truth behind that facade. Freemasonry certainly isn't "free". It could cost you your soul.

Also of interest is the irony (purposeful?) of naming the Masonic youth league the DeMolay order for boys as if Jacques DeMolay (Jacques de Molay) was some sort of hero. Christians should be aware that DeMolay was burned at the stake for being a pedophile, homosexual, for practicing witchcraft, and for worshipping the false god Baphomet.

[Herman Blaydoe]

And some people need to be made aware that those charges were made up so that the King of France and the Roman Catholic Church could disband the Knights Templar and confiscate their very considerable wealth and properties.

According to certain witnesses, the early Christians sacrificed babies and practiced cannibalism. Don't believe everything you read. Take a little time to check your references.

[Christina M.]

According to certain witnesses, the early Christians sacrificed babies and practiced cannibalism. Don't believe everything you read. Take a little time to check your references.

You mean we don't practice cannibalism every Sunday?

[Herman Blaydoe]

I'll let someone else take a stab at that one, but that certainly is where the charge comes from.

[Guillermo M.L.]

You mean we don't practice cannibalism every Sunday?

Cannibalism, and Theophagy as well =)

[Ned Toporowski]

If you have no proof or evidence of it, why make the claim and post it on facebook for the world to sow doubt on our clergy?

I wouldn't be quick to believe any rumor regarding freemasons. There's this conspiracy theory going around about how freemasons want to rule the world etc. I think that belongs in the same category as the claim that Elvis is still alive.

[Paul Cowan]

He is. I saw him at the Walmart a couple of weekends ago. He looks great for his age, though a bit on the Asian side.

Paul , who has left the building

[Mikhail Kolitwenzew]

Read this video on YouTube everyone. Its The Church of Greece's 1933 statement against freemasonry.

Freemasonry is a Pagan religion. Its the continuation of the ancient "mysteries". These "mysteries" are an ancient Pagan religion, which has been passed on from generations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmoOosQrEi0


Here is part of the 1933 statement against Freemasonry:

The Declaration Against Freemasonry - By the Holy Synod of the Church of Greece
The Bishops of the Church of Greece in their session of October 12, 1933, concerned themselves with the study and examination of the secret international organization, Freemasonry. They heard with attention the introductory exposition of the Commission of four Bishops appointed by the Holy Synod at its last session; also the opinion of the Theological Faculty of the University of Athens, and the particular opinion of Prof. Panag Bratsiotis which was appended thereto. They also took into consideration publications on this question in Greece and abroad. After a discussion they arrived at the following conclusions, accepted unanimously by all the Bishops:

"Freemasonry is not simply a philanthropic union or a philosophical school, but constitutes a mystagogical system which reminds us of the ancient heathen mystery-religions and cults - from which it descends and is their continuation and regeneration. This is not only admitted by prominent teachers in the lodges, but they declare it with pride, affirming literally: "Freemasonry is the only survival of the ancient mysteries and can be called the guardian of them;" Freemasonry is a direct offspring of the Egyptian mysteries; "the humble workshop of the Masonic Lodge is nothing else than the caves and the darkness of the cedars of India and the unknown depths of the Pyramids and the crypts of the magnificent temples of Isis; in the Greek mysteries of Freemasonry, having passed along the luminous roads of knowledge under the mysteriarchs Prometheus, Dionysus and Orpheus, formulated the eternal laws of the Universe!"

THE LINK TO THE ARTICLE v v v
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/34849486/The-Orthodox-Church-and-Freemasonry (http://www.docstoc.com/docs/34849486/The-Orthodox-Church-and-Freemasonry)

Watch the above video on Youtube.com to read the entire statement.

Also, listen to this to hear what Fr Athanasios Mitilinaios+ said about it (he was a very learned and popular elder from Greece):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smigqJL5NE4&feature=related

[Bryan J. Maloney]

To extend this with a question, what philanthropic fraternal opportunities are there in the USA within the Orthodox Church? For example, within the Greek Archdiocese, women have Philoptochos, but I have found nothing for men.

[Ben Johnson]

I saw him at Target. :)

[Owen Jones]

AHEPA is the primary philanthropic organization in the Greek Church. I would be surprised if you have to be of Greek lineage to join. There are a variety of fraternal organizations where you have to have Greek Lineage, usually from some particular place, like the Cretins. Some churches have more local fraternal organizations after a particular saint, or they were founded years ago to support a particular monastery or church in Greece and have stayed in business doing other charitable work. And if none of the above you can always start one! My daughter started an organization for Orthodox young professionals.

[Bryan J. Maloney]

I will look into HEPA, although what I've seen on their web site seems to speak with two tongues. On the one hand, they make nondiscriminatory claims. On the other hand, they pre-disqualify my children from some of their programs or put impediments on them by virtue of their birth. It looks more like a Greek ethnicity club than an Orthodox fraternal society.

[Owen Jones]

You are absolutely right. Virtually all of the fraternal societies in the Greek Church are more ethnic than spiritual in nature. AHEPA is the Greek version of the various Jewish anti-defamation societies. It was founded to fight ethnic discrimination against Greeks in America. But, what is one to do? And anything that one would wish to start that would be remotely spiritual or theological in nature - or of specific appeal to non-Greek converts - is going to need the blessing of a) your priest and b) the Bishop. But why not work on that? I would love to join the St. John of the Ladder society, and work through all of the steps each year.

[Nektarios]

I have been for several years. I am a member of the George Washington Union, a Co-masonic body (men and women) chartered by the Grand Orient of France and I am also affiliated with the International Masonic Order Delphi that is headquartered in Greece (also Co-masonic) The type of Freemasonry that I am involved with is secular, unlike mainstream Anglo-American masonry that requires a belief in God. Grand Orient style masonry is not religious one way or the other. We don't discuss religion in lodge.

I just recently found out that a Orthodox friend of mine was a Mason and I asked him about it and this is what he said.I am familiar with the Churches stance on Freemasons as far as it goes against Orthodoxy which I whole heartedly agree, but what about the above "type" of freemasonry that doesn't involve religion. I didn't even know that existed. I am against all types of Freemasonry just to be clear. Hope you can help me figure this one out.

In Christ
Nektarios

[Ben Johnson]

I've been reading these posts and confused as to why this subject is brought up...Has there been an influx of freemasons I don't know about?In 2009 Dan Brown came out with a novel, a lot which was based on masonry. I heard Tom Hanks, star of the Da Vinci Code, is going to return and star in the movie. I cannot remember if it will be filmed or released in 2012. Either way, I think we can expect a lot of inquiry into masonry when it comes out. I did just finish reading Dan Brown's book for fun. I know next to nothing about masonry. Since I visited the U. S. Capitol in 1997, it was fun reliving some of the scenes the characters did, except they made it below the first floor; I did not. I thought some of the symbols and thinking of the masons in Dan Brown's book was kind of strange, but I do not know how much of it is real and how much is made up. I think I will try to read a copy of the Craft and Cross just to learn about it. If anyone has other suggestions, please let me know.

[Andrew Pantelli]

The Craft and the Cross by Ian Gordon kingsway Publications will cerainly open your eyes to the truth

Once in darkness, now in the Light! Andrew xxx

[Nektarios]

Does any one have a relevant answer to my question above?

[Herman Blaydoe]

Any form of Masonry is merely the application of Gnostic philosophy, and therefore an "add-on" to one's Christianity. Christ does not need anything "added on".

What was the question, exactly?

Herman the Pooh

[Bryan J. Maloney]

The Craft and the Cross by Ian Gordon kingsway Publications will cerainly open your eyes to the truth

Once in darkness, now in the Light! Andrew xxx

This book essentially claims that Christianity and Freemasonry are from the same source. I doubt that it will bring anything into light.

[Ben Johnson]

This book essentially claims that Christianity and Freemasonry are from the same source. I doubt that it will bring anything into light.
Would you have a suggestion for reading? I just want to get the main points of what freemasonry is all about, because I think there is going to be a lot of inquiry and comment after Dan Brown's latest book is released on film.

[Andrew Pantelli]

Freemasony is a religion. Talking about religion in the lodge is not allowed, because there is to them (that know) only one god Lucifer (the Great Architect of the Universe) The fact that they offer prayers to TGAU sing hymns, and refer to him in fear, trembling and adoration in their Temple (Lodge) is proof enough. The rising up through the Degrees via Chapters and other Degrees, which slowly, very slowly leads one to acknowledge Lucifer as TGAU. is the reason why they are not allowed to proslyetise. Masons have been blinded, and filled with pride! It is not for us to condemn then though, because they have been decieved. The Cross and the Craft by Ian Gordon, shows it all.I was a Mason for twelve years.Masonry is a deception, by the Deciever, and one should have nothing to do with it. Give Glory to Christ instead!

[Andrew Smith]

I just recently found out that a Orthodox friend of mine was a Mason and I asked him about it and this is what he said.I am familiar with the Churches stance on Freemasons as far as it goes against Orthodoxy which I whole heartedly agree, but what about the above "type" of freemasonry that doesn't involve religion. I didn't even know that existed. I am against all types of Freemasonry just to be clear. Hope you can help me figure this one out.

In Christ
Nektarios

I can't see how this makes it exempt from the anathema. No lodges, afaik, allow discussion of religion. And if it didn't have the rituals and references to paganism (which are a big part of the problem), well, it probably wouldn't call itself freemasonry.

[Andrew Pantelli]

Freemasonry is a religion. It gives all glory to The Great Architecr of the Universe. If the head of an organisation is called Lucifer (GAU) why would anyone wish to have anything to do with it. Just as being Orthodox is a mindset, the deception that is Freemasonry is exactly the same. One is taken through the rituals, filled with Pride, and in the fulness of time, you are exposed to the Light, Lucifer!There is nothing to understand about this, those that have been involved in it have given their experiences and understnding of this deception, you accept their testomony or you may reject it.

In Christ Andy xxx