Order for the great entrance

[Tom Denich]

What is the "standard" line up for the Great Entrance? Is there a standard? I always served the altar and lined up 2 tapers, the cross, the censor, priest and gifts then fans. Is that a standard?

I know there might be regional variations etc. Does anyone know the significance of the line up?

Is the altar supposed to be empty during the Great Entrance?

[Paul Cowan]

We line up the folowing
Cross
tapers
censor
gifts held by Deacon (bread) then Priest (chalice)
fans

If we have additional priests they carry a hand cross behind the gifts and in front of the fans
If we have additional servers (rare) they carry our patron saint icon behind the tapers

I have seen where visiting priests or even a monk has stayed behind the altar during the Entrance.

[Anthony Stokes]

What is the "standard" line up for the Great Entrance? Is there a standard? I always served the altar and lined up 2 tapers, the cross, the censor, priest and gifts then fans. Is that a standard?

When I was growing up in a Greek church, it was candles, fans, cross, censor, priest. I have always seen it as the gifts going out last. This is especially true at a hierarchical Liturgy, since everyone walks past the bishop on their way out for the entrance.


I know there might be regional variations etc. Does anyone know the significance of the line up?

I'm not sure about that, except that the censor stays with the gifts as much as possible, and as long as the fans end up in the right place.


Is the altar supposed to be empty during the Great Entrance?

I don't think that is a requirement. When I was young, we would always have someone stay in the altar to shut the Deacon's door. At my current church, the person that is on that side during the entrance waits and closes the door after the priest exits.

Subdeacon Anthony

[Michael Astley]

At my parish, we leave the deacon's doors open until after we have returned to the altar.

As for the order, we have two tapers, then an icon, the censer, then the gifts. We don't have fans at my church yet. I have perhaps misunderstood but I thought that the processional Cross was not carried during the Liturgy unless the First Hierarch was celebrant. I don't remember where I read this and am now wondering whether I have I just imagined it. Can anybody confirm one way or another whether this is the Russian tradition?

Another variation that I have noticed is that in Greek and Antiochian churches that I have visited, the proceesion seems to go all the way to the west end of the temple along the north side of the church, and then back to the east end by a middle route. From what I have seen, Russian practice seems to be to stay on or close to the soleas and just move to the centre of the soleas, (except in the Liturgy of St James, where the rubrics stipulate going all the way to the west end for both entrances). Also, in Antiochian churches, I have seen a server walking backwards and censing the gifts during the procession. I have not seen this anywhere else.

At the end of the commemorations during the Great Entrance, our servers, who have been facing east, separate into two groups, turn to face each other, bow to each other, then enter the altar through both doors in a sort of criss-cross pattern. We then reverence the high place together, turn and bow to the priest, then close the doors. I first experienced this at our cathedral and thought it looked rather dignified, so adopted it at our parish.

Pax,
Michael

[Paul Cowan]

Also, in Antiochian churches, I have seen a server walking backwards and censing the gifts during the procession.

This is me.


Another variation that I have noticed is that in Greek and Antiochian churches that I have visited, the proceesion seems to go all the way to the west end of the temple along the north side of the church, and then back to the east end by a middle route

This is how we do it. After the priest turns around at the top of the solea and says "All of you" holding the gifts high, I then go in through the south doors with the censer for him. As soon as I do, the other servers collect in formation and bow to the Holy Doors then they also enter through the south doors.

Paul

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

Also, in Antiochian churches, I have seen a server walking backwards and censing the gifts during the procession. I have not seen this anywhere else.



That is exactly what we Catholics do during Processions with the Blessed Sacrament: the thurifer walks backwards and censes the Host in the Monstrance being carried by the priest.

Perhaps there are a large number of former Catholics in those Antiochian churches...

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear all, above, Michael wrote:

From what I have seen, Russian practice seems to be to stay on or close to the soleas and just move to the centre of the soleas, (except in the Liturgy of St James, where the rubrics stipulate going all the way to the west end for both entrances).
You are quite right that in contemporary Russian practice at least (and I don't know how old this custom is), the great entrance is made solely at the solea. The servers, etc., depart out the north door, down the solea, and immediately turn south to move to the centre, stopping immediately before the Royal Doors, facing them (thus just at the bottom of the solea). The deacons, followed by the priests, exit out the north door and immediately turn south, while still on the solea, moving directly to the doors.

This is most common. It is not, however, universal, and some Russian parishes make the great entrance after the longer style, processing around the central icon of the nave, then back to the solea.

Also, in Antiochian churches, I have seen a server walking backwards and censing the gifts during the procession. I have not seen this anywhere else.
I have seen this as well, and while local custom is blessed by its bishop and thus one follows what is given, this is technically incorrect. The gifts are not meant to be censed during the entrance itself. Even when the deacon carries the censer (as is prescribed in the rubrics), he does not cense the gifts while doing so. The gifts are censed immediately before being taken up from the table of oblation, and then again immediately after being laid upon the holy table; the deacon carries the censer in procession as part of the 'fragrant offering' of the prayers of the Church, but also for the practical reason of having it at the ready at the altar for the bishop/priest. During the procession itself, it is not carried in the normal way, as for censing, but hanging 'over the deacon's shoulder' (in actual practice, as this is somewhat difficult, especially if the chains on the censer aren't long enough, it is hung in front of his chest, below the paten; more on this here (http://www.monachos.net/forum/showpost.php?p=45302&postcount=30)).

That reason aside, it is not really appropriate for someone other than a deacon or a priest actively to cense, as the offering of incense ecclesiastically is part of the priestly office (described as far back as Leviticus). Even the deacon cannot cense without a specific blessing from the priest -- each and every time he takes up the censer to make a censing of the nave or altar, he asks that the incense be blessed (which is why, coincidentally, when a deacon leads a reader's service or other prayers without a priest, he does not use incense - as there is no one present to bless it, and to bless him to do so). Technically, a server carrying the censer (which sometimes happens if, for example, there is only one deacon but a multitude of servers) should walk facing forward, holding the censer reverently, but not swinging it.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Tom Denich]

What is the "standard" line up for the Great Entrance? Is there a standard? I always served the altar and lined up 2 tapers, the cross, the censor, priest and gifts then fans. Is that a standard?

I know there might be regional variations etc. Does anyone know the significance of the line up?

Is the altar supposed to be empty during the Great Entrance?

Well, thanks everyone. I always thought the tomb was supposed to be empty during the Entrance and therefore everyone out of the pool. (I might have imagined that part)

I have always seen the cross used during the great entrance (in the midwest) and we vary from around the church to just the solea. Depends on Father.

Does anyone know the significance of this whole event?

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Fr Dn Matthew wrote:



This is most common. It is not, however, universal, and some Russian parishes make the great entrance after the longer style, processing around the central icon of the nave, then back to the solea.

This is also the way which the Bulgarians do the Great Entrance going out along the east wall of the church after they leave the Altar and then up the center of the church back towards the solea.

I wasn't aware that Russians also do something like this. Interesting.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Anthony Stokes]

(which is why, coincidentally, when a deacon leads a reader's service or other prayers without a priest, he does not use incense - as there is no one present to bless it, and to bless him to do so). Technically, a server carrying the censer (which sometimes happens if, for example, there is only one deacon but a multitude of servers) should walk facing forward, holding the censer reverently, but not swinging it.
INXC, Dcn Matthew

Fr. Dn. Matthew,
two comments on this topic.
1) I have always seen in Greek parishes in the US, and did it myself as a child, a server walking backwards with the censer, but this is probably another of those customs done because there are typically not deacons in GOA parishes.

2) With regards to using incense at a Reader's service (not to get too far off of the subject), do the Rubrics not say that the senior most person present (deacon, subdeacon, reader, etc.) can make a censing with the hand censer? This would obviously not use incense blessed by a priest.

Thanks,
Subdeacon Anthony

[Father David Moser]

Well, thanks everyone. I always thought the tomb was supposed to be empty during the Entrance and therefore everyone out of the pool. (I might have imagined that part)

That brings to mind a story. One year, when my son was about 5 or 6, on Pascha, he and a friend about the same age were serving in the altar. I was still a deacon at the time and so was also serving but had a lot to do and so wasn't watching closely. Joel and his friend were goofing around in the altar (hey they are 6 year old boys, what do you expect?) and so the head altar server told them that as punishment they could not go out for the great entrance. So at the entrance everybody except my son and his friend left the altar to go outside. Just about that time, the boys decided to pull their arms up into the sleeves of their stichari and flap them like chickens. Now this was Pascha and all the doors are open and all the lights are on and everyone can see the chickens flapping in the altar, but everyone is outside for the entrance and there is no one to stop them. One for the memory banks for sure.



Does anyone know the significance of this whole event?

The whole liturgy is the life of Christ. The two entrances both depart from the North door (Galilee) and proceed to the royal door (Jerusalem) just as our Lord traveled from Nazareth (in Galilee) to Jerusalem at the beginning of his ministry (little entrance) and again just before Passion week (great entrance). Thus the entrance is less about the tomb and more about the triumphal entry (Palm Sunday).

The crucifixion doesn't come until later (thine own of thine own) when the bread and wine are lifted up in the form of a cross and the entombment then when the curtain is closed before the communion. (see how important the movement of the doors and curtain can become). Then, the bringing out of the Gifts for Communion is the Resurrection as our Lord exits the tomb and comes to us.

Fr David Moser